Police face “special risks” from Vets
Yeah, this is getting out of control. The Australian publication, the Sydney Morning Herald reports that “Troubled veterans pose special risk for US police” (apparently it was reprinted from the LA Times, but I can’t find that one);
The Department of Justice, which is developing the program, said there was an ”urgent need” to defuse crises in which police faced tactical disadvantages against mentally ill suspects who were trained in modern warfare.
”We just can’t use the blazing-guns approach any more when dealing with disturbed individuals who are highly trained in all kinds of tactical operations, including guerrilla warfare,” said Dennis Cusick, the executive director of the Upper Midwest Community Policing Institute.
”That goes beyond the experience of SWAT teams.”
Does anyone else think that sounds just f^cking stupid? Aside from the fact that police haven’t had to face anyone who is “highly trained in all kinds of tactical operations, including guerrilla warfare”, what are they doing going up against people who aren’t highly trained with blazing guns, if they’re looking for alternatives for veterans? But what is the impetus for this sudden bout of hand wringing and panty-wetting?
There is no data that specifically tracks police confrontations with suspects now or formerly associated with the military. But an army report issued this year found that violent offences in the service were up 1 per cent while non-violent offences increased 11 per cent between 2010 and last year.
Oh, goodness, violent offenses rose a whole percent!? One year?! So how many more is that? One? Two?
However, during that time crime in much of the US declined. ”What we’re seeing is that the volume [of violent incidents involving military personnel off base] has ratcheted up to a level we have never seen before,” Mr Cusick said.
A one percent increase in one year is “ratcheted up to a level we have never seen before”? Oh, for f^ck’s sake. And to prove their point, they recount ONE story of ONE combat veteran who wounded two cops in a standoff in Fayetteville, NC near Fort Bragg. That’s all you got? It seems that if violence has ratcheted up, they’d have more stories than that. or maybe some journalism school-inspired research from calling the State AGs and coming up with some numbers instead of an hysteria-inspired hyperbolic hit-piece on veterans completely vacant of real facts.
But, hey, the Justice Department has inspired the hysteria, so there must be something to it, right?
So I went to the Upper Midwest Community Policing Institute’s website and apparently they are in receipt of a federal grant from the DoJ to develop a training program entitled De-escalation Tactics for Veterans in Crisis. So there’s the motivation for the impending crisis – federal handouts.
Category: Veterans Issues
This “think tank”, and that’s a stretch, is just trying to get in on fed dollars, so they put out a meme that isn’t true, but is lapped up by the assholes at DoJ, because it fits their preconceived notions of how veterans act.
They have no data, but if it bleeds it leads, so it must be true, right?
Here’s an idea, how about a study on the public health threat posed by assholes who shit on police cars and on sidewalks, and have unprotected sex with whoever they can drag into their tents?
All Vets need to do is form a drug cartel. Then the DoJ will ship them weapons with which to kill cops and it won’t be that big of a deal. Problem solved.
Like Lethal Weapon!!!!
The Mexicans do have a drug cartel composed of veterans….the Zetas. Not that it’s relevant to this bullshit.
Sounds like they cribbed this meme from Rambo. All they need is Col. Samuel Trautman, USA(Ret) saying “If you send 200 officers up against a vet, make sure you have a good supply of body bags.”
I get so tired of hearing this shit. It’s shades of the aftermath of Vietnam. Why don’t these over educated faculty lounge lizards try a study on how many of these vets go on to serving the public, as in, Police, Fire, Paramedic, etc.. Oh wait, wouldn’t be any grant money in showing them in a positive light. I did 25 yrs as acop after Vietnam and you couldn’t swing a dead cat by its tail in a locker room or squad room without hitting several more VN vets…So fuck them and let’em eat fish heads!
Anybody think about the fact that with housing privatization, the DoD trend of ceding jurisdiction (due to manning, posse commitatus, base closure) that the locals now have more cases to deal with because the population changed?
Does ANYBODY understand statistics? 1%? At what sample size? What margin of error? What significance or confidence level is this amazing, world ending phenomena?
so you’re saying that Military folks are bad? If you go to war you’re going to Rambo out and start killing everything in sight? Gee this sounds awfully familiar. there’s no evidence to support their claims, but also none to refute so they can make the accusation, and people will begin to suspect (if only subconsciously) that such accusations are not only true but facts of life.
It’s not complicated. To justify a solution, one must first create a problem.
Why change tactics now? This one has worked so well in the past. See war on drugs, war on poverty, etc.
It must be nice to be able to create and define a problem, then establish a program to solve the problem which doesn’t exist – until your agency trains people in victimology.
That this came from the la times from the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia makes it suspect immediately. They “have no data that specifically tracks confrontaions with violent veterans” but they claim “What we’re seeing Is that the volume, blah blah blah, has ratcheted up to a level we’ve never seen before” HUH? If you don’t know how many happened in the past, how can you know if there are more or less happening now?!? My sister is with Phoenix PD and I’ve done plenty of ‘ride-alongs’ with many of the officers in her squad, and I don’t ever recall here one of them ask, “Are you a veteran?” More hysteria from the left coast.
No, I don’t think it sounds stupid. In fact, I think they’re right. The average Marine POG who has been through Marine Combat Training has a tactical advantage over many police SWAT teams. We have received special super secret squirrel guerrilla warfare tactics unknown to SWAT. Those tactics include the mysterious and difficult to master “keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.”
Because even your average mentally ill retarded Marine (how is that for a redundant expression?) isn’t fucking stupid enough to have a negligent discharge that gets someone killed in front of his wife and kids.
We are very dangerous and the police are correct to be afraid.
And don’t forget that credit is also due SPLC….
#4 I think you totally missed my point, which is the DoJ doesn’t seem to think that something like Fast and Furious is a big deal but they are actually developing a De-escelation Tactics for Veterans in Crisis training program.
#11 Yeah so everyone in the military is mentally ill and retarded, so police should be afraid of all of us? That’s your stance? Really?! If that were true then why hasn’t the number of assaults on police officers by us “crazy war vets” skyrocketed? I’m sick to death of everyone assuming everyone that has served in combat in either Iraq or
Afghanistan, or both, is suddenly mentally deranged and wishing to do harm against anything that breathes due to PTSD. TL actually did a strip highlighting this same knee jerk reaction civilians have when someone goes nuclear and just happened to have served in the military. Put succinctly, this notion is extremely stupid.
In the immortal words of my Uncle Clint Eastwood, “Maybe they should have armed themselves.”
New TTP
Bottle of JD a Pizza and a Hustler Magazine left near the door. Situation solved as no Joe leaves Porn laying around without perusing it.
S.G.: don’t forget the can of Cope and a pack of Marlboros.
14 – I think CRassi was being sarcastic.
I hope so.
I know I’m a grenade with the pin pulled out. I feel sorry for the cop pulls me over. I may look like a fat, old, gone-to-seed, past-his-prime, career intel weenie retired SRNCO, but I’m really a highly trained guerilla warfare expert. I’m a KILLER I tell ya’.
Cops come after me, they best be bringin’ donuts.
Yeah, I laid it on pretty thick. I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
I’ll make my point without the sarcasm this time: The dumbest Cat IV on the planet has better tactical training than certain SWAT teams, since at least he knows his four weapons safety rules.
Seriously, this Cusick guy is an idiot. He said that the “guns blazing” tactic is an appropriate tactic in all cases that do not involve veterans. So he is pretty much acknowledging that the dickfaced clowns he represents up in canada or wherever have zero tactical training whatsoever. They just spray and pray like a haji (or Tim Tebow). It doesn’t take much training to have a tactical advantage on those morons.
It leaves me to ask and ponder, if this is the same think tank that Clarence Dipstick and the dickless wonders on Pima County Regional SWAT subscribe to…
@21: I remember watching the raid in Pima county that killed that Marine, and that was the sloppiest door charge I’d ever seen and probably caused an extreme over use of force that was unnecessary.
Most of the Violent Crimes I’ve seen when it comes to military members tended to be when Soldier A comes home to find Mrs A in bed with Mr B. Now this is a trend I noticed when working in an ER in 2005-06. There was once incident where a soldier got stabbed in the chest, but that happened so said soldier could avoid a deployment. Not because of it.
This is why I don’t watch much TV or movies anymore.
Hollywood takes this trope and makes sweet, sweet love to it. You have the crazy, psycho “Vet” who kills at the drop of a hat because his some meter maid or bike cop pulling him over reminds him of ‘Nam.
Or it’s the crazy prepared soldier who’s stashed grenades, C-4 and “machine guns” in his broom closet.
These mall ninja cops are going to get real people killed. “Guns Blazing” is a rock band, not a method of policing. Liberals are right (OH NOES!). Federal funds, testosterone poisoning and DoD surplus have bred a generation of cowboy psycho cops.
The rules don’t apply to them. Every traffic stop is an excuse to pull out an M-4 or shotgun. Every “suspect” is full of holes because they were “armed”. They wear ACU’s, Multicam and BDU’s..and think that they are soldiers.
This farce will become a tragedy. We need Congress and state legislatures to take their toys away. We need to call out these “experts” who say vets are crazy. While ignoring Fuhrer Bloomberg’s gun laws and the murder in Pima County.
Chockblock, why don’t you back off from the generalizations of cops, and maybe you’ll get at least some people to back off from the generalizations of veterans?
In 27 years, I pulled a shotgun out on exactly 3 traffic stops, two involving people involved in armed robberies and one involving a man wanted for a murder. You paint with as broad a brush as the people you decry for painting with the broad brush about veterans.
UpNorth, I’d like to. But when I see cops wearing military uniforms, it sickens me.
Why do police departments insist on using SWAT teams for every raid? Why do they insist on being armed to the teeth? National Review had a good write up in the 90’s about the militarization of police forces across the country.
After 9/11 every podunk police force went shopping for DoD goodies and it hasn’t stopped.
Here in El Paso, cops are now issued M-4 clones. Thankfully they’re semi. Not so in Seattle. I have a nice pic of an M-4 on the trunk of a squad car. Thank god people stopped the car so that the driver could get his weapon.
It’s a berserk button of mine. Cops and soldiers don’t mix. Period. When will the FOP roll back the use of SWAT teams?
Um, the FOP has nothing to say about the use, or deployment of SWAT teams. That’s up to the administrations of the PD’s and Sheriff’s departments.
Again, as I posted this a while back, recently, in Michigan, an officer was killed in Kalamazoo, by a guy with an SKS, who fired one shot through the officer’s vest, wounding him, then walked up and shot him in the head. A Walker PD officer was killed by bank robbers,who ran him down, after firing on the officers chasing them, with an M-4 clone. They managed to ventilate several cruisers.
My son was shot at by an asshole who wanted to go “hunting cops”, among his weapons, an AR-15 and a .30-06. Fortunately, the asshole lost, when he absorbed two rounds, one in the chest, one in the head, from a department-issued AR-15 my son had. Then there was this, from Wednesday, http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/shooting-in-lawton-january-25-2012 . The “big gun” involved was an SKS.
And, the reason that PD’s use SWAT teams to serve most warrants? The departments are woefully short-staffed on the street, you can’t take an entire shift off the road, or half of a shift, to serve a warrant, or a couple of warrants. Otherwise, people complain that it took 20 minutes for the Police to respond when someone calls in that two guys are trying to break into her trailer.
“Does anyone else think that sounds just f^cking stupid?” Sigh. Your far from the only one Jonn.
It’s one of those myths that will most likely never die, despite all evidence to the contrary because there are too many interested in keeping the myth alive to further there own causes.
Ok, time to put on the conspiracy theory paranoia cap: With this “report” from a LEO inspired “think tank”; maybe they are trying to get more and more money for APCs, more tactical gear, SWAT training, and really cool weaponry like the military has for police departments? We have seen a hodge podge throw together SWAT team do their thing in Arizona. They looked really menacing and had their cool vehicles, uniforms, and tactical gear go in guns a blazing. We have seen police departments that have no need for APCs get them for their department because of federal grant money thrown at them. Plus, if you want to get the public to fear Vets, you have to get all sort of hyperbolic and twisted panties. They have been pushing this meme for several years, with the help of SLPC and most leftist morons out there, and this will get more traction as more stories or fictional “reports” come out from various “think tanks” and the DHS. They want the public afraid of Vets for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is to isolate and marginalize Vets.
I’m sure that if the general public knew just how many Vets were in law enforcement, DHS, firefighters, and paramedics, etc., they would probably have a very dim view of these reports. I’m sure that those same Vets are feeling rather insulted right now, as well.
@29: OldTrooper, Hollywood wouldn’t have plots for many of it’s movies if not for the psycho-vet meme. Fun Fact: Rambo was written by someone who *never* served.
It’s politically correct to go after veterans, not Mexican cartels or radical Muslims. The FBI’s gang assessment classified Juggalos (fans of the risible group Insane Clown Posse) as a security threat right up there with MS-13 et al.
Juggalos don’t have political front groups nor will liberals get offended if you cuff them. The backlash from this absurdity caused the FBI’s gang report to disappear from the internets for a bit.
This administration if going after strawmen because trying to stop the cartels and real terrorists is *hard*.
OT, you hit upon the one thing that seriously bothered me about this garbage. Is this part of a greater effort to drive a wedge between law enforcement and veterans? If that can be done, or the public perception be created that veterans are unfit to serve in policing agencies (or firefighting, for instance), is the result a less effective police force?
A bit further out in tinfoil hat territory is the thought that by making all veterans out to be crazed and dangerous simply because we breath, it somehow justifies things like the Pima disaster?
I dunno. Makes no sense to me, but I know that they will do anything, say anything, manufacture anything to further their goal of disarming those of us who are most able to defend ourselves.
@24 Couldn’t agree more chockblock the average Infantry PFC has light years more training than a 10 year patrolman in tactical situations.. All those guys know how to do is collect money for the township. 90% of them are grossly out of shape and lets face it the reason they became cops was because they were to scared to join the military but still want to act like billy badass.
The last thing these guys need is an M4 or any automatic weapon just give them their pen and ticket pad thats all any of them are good for.
@31 Most cops now a days arent vets the reason is most departments are looking for bachelors or even masters degrees, maybe the whole lunatic vet angle has something to do with it but a young E5 who ets after 4 years isn’t even eligible for alot of departments without any college and I don’t know many officers who would get out to be cops but that would explain why most of them are choads.
I would, also, bet that most of your average cops like the thought of getting all the cool toys and uniforms so that they can look menacing to stroke their g-d complex egos.
@33, good point. The problem is that hiring is done through the city or county, and they’re more interested in affirmative action or self-imposed quotas than they are in hiring the best qualified people they can get. After all, if a BS or MBA is what got the director of personnel his or her job, then it’s only reasonable that other hires should be as well-qualified./sarc
Plus, many states now run police qualification through 4 year or community colleges, so you have to be a student to get into the program, and you can’t get hired without the certification.
When I got hired, lo these many years ago, my class(which the PD itself ran, back then) consisted of 28 people, 19 of which were veterans. The two dropouts were non-vets.
The news media also has a hand in this. There are probably dozens of articles written about vets every day; and yet, it is comments and articles like this that float to the top.
What pisses me off about these raids is that they are complete nonsense. SWAT teams gear up in those APCs while carrying those rifles, all to serve warrants on drug charges. There are many, many cases where these clowns show up to serve these drug warrants and end up shooting innocent people or family pets.
Then you have incidents like one in Florida last year where they send patrol officers to serve an arrest warrant on a homicide suspect. The officer was murdered. And then another incident late last year where a child sex offender suspected of downloading child porn here in Louisiana is served, but while he is away from home, and disappears. Now we have a pedophile running around our community because the local department couldn’t bother to do the surveillance on a child rapist that they would have done for a suspected pothead.
All of this focus on militarizing police departments, all for the war on drugs. You’d think they’d focus more on the pedos and murderers, you know, people who are a danger to the community. Instead they focus on small time dope boys.
Many cops are wannabes… they dress up and play military (SWAT) but never were. Fewer and fewer cops are veterans and the military-society disconnect is growing wider.
Still trying to figure out where all those PD’s are that require degrees and graduate degrees to become an officer. A quick check of LA, Chicago, Houston, NY, and Atlanta show varying requirements from no college at all to 48 semester hours (none if you are a vet), and variations on that theme.
Every department I checked just now gives some sort of veteran’s preferance. And they all clearly are interested in hiring vets.
Anyone interested might start here, with Atlanta: https://www.joinatlantapd.org/requirements.htm
Or NY http://www.nypdrecruit.com/faq/exam-employment
Now we have a pedophile running around our community because the local department couldn’t bother to do the surveillance on a child rapist that they would have done for a suspected pothead.
That’s because asset forfeiture laws are more lucrative when you’re dealing with druggies. Pedophiles, not so much.
[…] I’m skeptical (and paranoid?). As Jonn noted in part vets are suspect in some circles… but I’ll posit that that suspicion is based on many […]
@39 Big cities are really the last departments not requiring college, I know in NJ if you want to work in a smaller town which pays alot more they virtually all require degrees and alot of them don’t give veterans points because they use a different test than the civil service exam. So you basically have to know somebody to get hired. I really don’t think it’s fair that if you’re a vet you have to go to some big city you may not even be from to get started in Law Enforcement
I love being a retired Gunny and current PoPo as well as a retread since called back in 2005 with service in Iraq. Get to catch shiite from the left for military service and shiite from left, right and center for being PoPo. Actually, our department hired a number of OIF/OEF veterans until the economy went south and so did hiring. My department also has a large number of sworn and non-sworn with kids in the military. A friend’s son just came back from Iraq in December and another has a son deploying to Afghanistan.
YatYas: Does it annoy you to see some tub of goo LEO with a high and tight acting like rambo? I have noticed that in a few cops in neighboring communities (in my town, I know most of the officers and, other than a couple of 4×4 affirmative action females with chips on their shoulders, they are very professional in their actions and my legion post sponsored their 2 man sniper team to go to the national competition where they did very well for their first time out and learned a lot of valuable information).
OldTrooper:
Shitbird cops piss me off just like shitbird military members and veterans do. Most cops I know support the military then again many are veterans or have kids in the military. Not every cop could make it in the military and not every veteran could make it as a cop.
Most people at my department call me by Gunny instead of using my first name.
@ #45- Guess you’ve earned it, huh Gunny? 😉