Guerena murder finally getting some press
I know that this is mostly old news to regular readers who remember the spate of posts that Operator Dan and I wrote about the murder of Jose Guerena in Tucxon last Summer by the Pima County SWAT Association, but several of you have sent us links indicating that the media is finally getting interested in the incident.
In case you missed the story, an Iraq veteran Marine and married father of two sons awoke when his wife saw a man with a gun outside their bedroom window right after Jose got off of his shift at the local mine. Guerena grabbed his legally owned rifle and confronted the intruders when they smashed down his front door. It turned out that those intruders were a cobbled-together “team” (and I use that word in the loosest sense) of SWAT who fired 71 rounds into the house, 22 of which struck Guerena…other rounds struck neighbors’ houses and the door frame through they were firing.
One clumsy oaf on the “team” tripped and fell over his own stupid feet which caused the other officers to think he was shot which only added to the confusion.
Of course, the department investigated itself and the officers’ actions and cleared itself of any wrong-doing. But anyone can look at the video (linked above) and see the amateurish “team” make several mistakes which cost Guerena his life, and his family their father.
If ever there was a case that should be investigated by Federal prosecutors, it’s this one. But because Pima County Sheriff Dupnik is an Obama ally, and a moonbat in his own right, that will never happen and the Guerena family will never get justice.
The last four paragraphs in the Associated Press article linked above are the most telling.
Category: The Guerena Killing
I hope the whole dept burns for this. Bunch of bumbling retards with badges.
@1: They won’t burn and in fact were probably promoted by sheriff Dipshit. I hope that none of them has had a good night sleep since they did this. I hope they never have a good night sleep until they come clean with their incompetence and sincerely apologize for that incompetence to the widow and children of this Marine. I hope that they (SWAT goofs) are so riddled with guilt that they set up a college fund for these kids, so that at least the kids can have a shot at an education.
I know; I’m hoping for the impossible.
” But because Pima County Sheriff Dupnik is an Obama ally…”
Seriously? You have derp’d yourself retarded.
Most of the comments made by the police in this article just plain piss me off. With such niceties as “‘You point a gun at police, you’re going to get shot,’ Kastigar said,” an “us versus them” mentality comes to mind in the context of the article. So, if I am awoken in the middle of the night and scope out my house and property armed with a handgun and/or shotgun as I have done in the past, I am subject to being shot first and asked questions later–so long as I’m not dead. That’s real comforting knowing that the local police use blacked out SUVs for their narcotics agents (meth is big around here, but the SUVs lack even a license plate; I run by one officer’s house a few times a week and the only way of telling it is a police vehicle is the spotlight at the driver’s door) and the town Marshals office (responsible for fugitive recovery) drives black Crown Vics with minimal markings. It seems that this was a case of Guerena being guilty by association. Members of his family were under investigation, he was close to them, thus he was guilty of the same crimes. Family members and close friends of mine have been in and out of the justice system for various things. One close friend drove 1000 miles to visit only to be arrested in a felony traffic stop on his way home due to his girlfriend reporting the car stolen and him being declared a “fugitive from justice” despite originally having her permission to drive it. I pondered the what-ifs for days after that: SWAT could have kicked in my door, I could have been jailed for somehow harboring a fugitive despite neither of us knowing, the list goes on. Something should be done for the family. Hopefully they win their lawsuit; nothing will bring back a father and husband, but at least some financial compensation will help support them during a time when they will need it most. The officers should be individually assessed and those most to blame for… Read more »
Derped? Yeah, nothing to indicate that, right? Unless you take his statements at face value. Nah, Dupnik’s not a liberal, he just acts and talks like one.
At least you recognize retarded–every time you look in the mirror.
The head of Justice is an Obama ally, too. In way deeper. Don’t expect anything but silence from the Feds.
The only way there would be any justice in this matter is if someone offed the murderers in question. And when a cop busts caps in someone like these cops did, they are nothing more than murderers. And they reat no protection whatsoever because they are now common criminals.
The longer this case sits, the more time Dupnik has to manufacture witnesses and evidence. Considering he is the Progressive Left’s hero for immediately labeling Jared Loughner as a TEA Partier, I’m surprised he hasn’t done away with the wife and kids.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. That’s what happens when you respond to the police with an assault rifle.
It probably won’t get investigated federally because Obama believes in the war on drugs and paramilitary tactics like this.
John L.,
Thanks for covering this atrocity.
I continue to sense an expanding “us vs. them” mentality between cops and the civilians they ostensibly vow to “protect and serve.”
What’s your opinion of the militarization of police forces throughout the US? (Tanks, drones, military small arms and tactics, etc.)
“One clumsy oaf on the “team” tripped and fell over his own stupid feet which caused the other officers to think he was shot which only added to the confusion.”
Hmmmm I’ve been around firearms all my life and when one pulls the trigger of a loaded rifle a LOUD BANG occurs. No one heard the bang but some clumsy oaf fell and they figured a shot was fired? Total BS.
I will say this, Frank–it scares the shit out of me that even in a shall-issue state like mine, the kinds of hoops that need to be jumped through for even a pistol permit, yet these same guys think nothing of rolling around in town with SWAT wagons full of M-4’s, breaching weapons, etc.
All for a town of 30,000 with a crime rate barely a third of the national average.
The most disturbing aspect of this case is the lying by officers. Mistakes are made, bad things happen to innocent people. But when Law Enforcement personnel deliberately lie about events, it destroys our whole society.
Why have laws and law enforcement if the laws will be over-ridden by by false testimony with impunity?
All officers who stated they saw the victim’s rifle discharge, need to be removed from duty dishonorably. A rifle going off indoors is not subtle, it’s dramatic and deafening. We need laws that punish members of the law community for giving false testimony, and those laws need to be used aggressively before we end up no effective legal system left.
Part of the problem may lie in that many police are/were also Reservists and Guardsmen who were called up and sent elsewhere. That sudden loss of trained, experienced personnel left an enormous gap.
To close the gap, many police forces hired on whomever they could get. If one is CLEET certified, can handle a firearm without harming one’s self most of the time, and don’t mind the lack of training required to handle shoot/don’t shoot situations (as Guerena and professional police were trained to handle), you too can be SWAT in many locales in the US.
SWAT serves Summons to court, arrest warrants, search warrants, and a large number of duties that used to fall to ordinary, everyday Law & Order police.
Best solution: there are thousands of freshly graduated lawyers who can’t find jobs. Put them in uniform. They may never make an arrest, but every perp will be fully mirandized and every “i” dotted and “t” crossed to ensure compliance with the law.
“war on drugs and paramilitary tactics like this.” It won’t get investigated, not because of Obama and the WoD, or “paramilitary tactics” but because the same shitbird US Attorney decided it shouldn’t be, and Eric Holder has his back.
And, seriously, I’ve yet to hear of or see any PD that has a “tank”.
DaveO, yeah and the cities will have to quadruple their departments, because it’ll take 4 lawyers to handle a barking dog complaint, and 4 more to write it up.
[sigh]
Okay, UpNorth, I stand corrected.
Does the term “light armor” work?
Nomenclature aside, these things look just like tanks to the civilians these goons are allegedly “serving and protecting.”
Frank, not picking at “tanks” so much as some of the ideas, like “I continue to sense an expanding “us vs. them” mentality between cops and the civilians they ostensibly vow to “protect and serve.” and “It’s not the truth about the military that divides us from the general public, it’s the lies and the fantasies”.
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=27412
I have always maintained that the assholes that shot up Guerena’s house and Guerena should have been arrested, arraigned and taken their chances with the citizens of Tuscon. Not a problem, at all. By now, not only is Guerena buried, so is, I’m sure, almost all of the evidence that would put these morons in jail too. I’ve searched and searched, and still can’t find the Return of Service for the original search warrant that was served at Corporal Guerena’s house. That would list all of the “evidence” that was secured from the house.
And, they should’ve started at the top, with Dupnik. Then the Lt. or Sgt that turned this collection of Barney Fifes loose on the public.
Grumpy Old Dude is quite correct, @#14, anyone who claimed he saw the rifle discharge should have been charged, as, after watching the video, I don’t believe that more than one could possibly have seen the weapon go off. That’s a failure of leadership, and a failure of the state and federal prosecutors, for not, at the least, reviewing the video before they gave these morons a pass.
Also, a failure for not calling in the State Police or the FBI(not that I have any faith in the Feebs)to conduct the investigation, rather than investigating themselves.
“these things look just like tanks to the civilians these goons are allegedly “serving and protecting.”” So every cop in the country is a goon, Frank? Does that equally translate to the military, for those that hate the military? Just wondering if that’s what you were going for, Frank?
*pst* UpNorth? Maybe our new found friend Frank here has a problem wif da “po-po”? Just saying…
Do ya think, Street?
I’m guessing local law enforcement stops frank from doing what he wants to do. Frank probably doesn’t like being told what he can and can’t do, and whatever local LE stops him from doing is is more than likely illegal.
Ok, I don’t know what personal hard-on you guys have for frank, that aside, I don’t like the idea of the police being equipped like a small army either. A small army without the training. Standing Armies are not to be used against Americans on American soil NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE, so to outfit a “police department” like an army is just a way to circumvent that. I’m no bleeding heart but I don’t want GOONS (which totally fits in this instance) banging down my door with breaching tools because I homeschool, have a CCW, or my ex said I fed the kids left over chili three days in a row.
THAT SAID, it hurts especially that this marine was a hero, but I don’t want “them” busting down the doors in the projects shooting up dads with their kids watching, either.
Boo you make some very relevant, reasonable and prudent points in your post. If you’ve seen anything frank posts, on this topic or anyhwere else, you’ll see he neither has a point nor relevance, nor is he anywhere near prudent. I’ll admit Jose Guerena’s murder didnt have to happen, and The Pima County Sheriff’s Office fucked up royally. That being said it should be absolutely necessary for any SWAT team to receive formal, continuous and regulated training so things like this don’t happen. That;s how you become a professional. SWAT teams are necessary because Law Enforcement Officers are constantly finding themselves outgunned by criminals who have no problem equipping themselves like small armies.
Recapping from video, testimony and press releases roughly from memory. You can correct me if I am wrong this is public record stuff you can look up on the pima county sheriff website. Originally reported that Guerena shot at the police first it was then corrected six days later confirming that he didn’t shoot and that his weapon was still on safe. A few days later in a press conference a SD spokesman says that the lead man falling and having a negligent discharge (not his words no such thing as an accidental discharge) making the rest of the team think he was shot and begin firing. Larry, Moe, and Curly begin firing from OUTSIDE into a dark house where not only Jose but also his wife and son are at. Somehow they strike Jose 22 times and miss his wife son and any living creature within a 10 mile radius. They then become afraid and fall back and wait for Guerena’s wife to come out and hassle her and ignore her begging to get the child inside before he sees his dad dead on the floor. They prepare to deploy robot while clearing neighborhood making sure they didn’t kill anyone else on accident. Kid comes out… Clusterfuck continues… They circle wagons and pray that Jose dies so they don’t have to testify against him in court. Ambulance shows up, they won’t allow them in because he isn’t dead yet…they use the robot to poke at him.
Sorry I am not trying to make light of this but this is pretty much what happened that day, and shortly thereafter. His brother was probably into some shit, and if Jose was as dangerous as they thought he was why did they go into a fight? This department at best was a bunch of fuckups at worst they are murderers. Dipshit that tripped is just the tip of the iceberg of fuckups in this case. There is no integrity…
Boo, Frank didn’t differentiate between the “goons” who murdered Guerena, and other law enforcement officers, like Ofc Trevor Slot. Slot had just gotten off the phone with his wife, when he responded to a call where bank robbers were fleeing into the city where he worked. http://www.honoringheroes.com/2011/10/michigan-line-of-duty-death-police-officer-trevor-slot/
I take offense to Frank, and you, labeling all officers as “goons”, as it seems he did in #17, and you did in #23. If you google or bing Trevor Slot, you’ll find that the “rifle” the bank robbers were firing at police was an M-4/short-barrelled AR-15. In cases like that, a Remington 870 is just not going to get the job done.
Then there was this, http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kalamazoo_and_battle_creek/The-tragic-death-of-Officer-Eric-Zapata
Eric died because the asshole that killed him shot through his vest with a rifle, then walked up and shot him in the head, but I guess that Officer Zapata shouldn’t have had the option of confronting his assailant with anything other than a .38, or maybe a semi-auto in 9mm or .40 cal? I find it equally troubling that some people want cops, public safety officers, US Marshalls, or Feebs to go into a situation under-gunned, because they’re butt-hurt that a cop might be carrying an AR-15.
“but I don’t want “them” busting down the doors in the projects shooting up dads with their kids watching, either”. You know what else, I don’t want “them” shooting my son when he pulls them over for a traffic violation, or show up at their house when they beat the shit out of the old lady, because they’re drunk.
He’s a deputy sheriff, and he’s already had to drop one asshole that wanted to kill him. I guess he should have made it fair, and let the guy shoot him with a rifle, while he tried to shoot back with a pistol?
Sorry, but this argument is asinine, you wouldn’t take a rifle to an artillery duel, or a 1911A1 to a machine gun fight, but you insist that cops go to shoot-outs against a rifle-carrying asshole, armed with a pistol.
@#25,”This department at best was a bunch of fuckups at worst they are murderers”. Exactly, Jason, I don’t believe anyone has disputed that, that has posted on this subject, I know I haven’t.
The North Hollywood shootout in 1997 is a classic example of how outgunned LE really is. Two suspects with homemade armor and several automatic weapons kept the LAPD at bay for hours, and fucked up plenty of real estate and hurt alot of people in the process. TWO supects.
suspects*….shit ya’ll know what I meant…
It’s obvious that the police screwed the pooch here and they deserve criticism for the way things turned out. It would seem to me that based on the sketchy evidence that they had they could have simply knocked on the door and served the warrant. From what I have read there was nothing that would suggest he was an imminent threat to anyone. This is just more evidence that law enforcement is often intimidated or even scared shitless of combat veterans and they react differently knowing they are dealing with a combat vet. The number of rounds fired by the police obviously points to poor training, poor self-control, questionable judgment and some pure shitheadedness. BUT unless everything the police said is a lie, Guerena was hanging with the wrong crowd. He was caught in a house with people that had just been in contact with 1,000 pounds of dope. That’s no dime bag friends. He was pulled over once with a gun, so what, except for the fact that there were also illegal drugs in the car. If you are a family man with any sense at all you do not hang with people who traffic drugs even if you are related to them. Nothing good can come of it. Lastly, you have to expect the worst if you grab a gun to meet the police. If you do this and don’t get shot you have just met the best trained most cool headed cops you will ever meet and that will probably only happen once. There are way too many unknowns here and I feel for the guy and his family but he ultimately shares some of the responsibility.
Here’s my $.02 on the matter. Keep in mind I’m a Medic, not and infantryman, but having been on the line, I trained rigorously to make sure that I knew WTF I was doing (like why you do not take a knee). I saw the video, and it was one of the sloppiest door charges I’ve ever seen. Pretty much everyone stopped at the door, and stuck their guns in and started shooting. You can see at least six people just sitting at the door frame shooting. YOU NEVER bunch up at the fatal funnel. Had he actually had the intent to kill anyone (which I doubt) then they would all have been goners. I you even see one guy after the door is cleared back up and just start shooting.
It is my belief that had they actually done the door charge right, they could have disarmed their suspect with a minimum of fire. I also think the aftermath was totally unprofessional. They did not bother to cover the body, or find the kids, or anything of that matter. In Short I can not find anything that doesn’t say that they didn’t 100% screw the pooch on this.
Agreed, Doc. This fustercluck shows that however much pork Dupnik got in the way of training money, it was wasted. And not just for the Pima County SD.
None of the departments looked like they knew what they were doing, from the approach to the aftermath.
#16: “…the cities will have to quadruple their departments, because it’ll take 4 lawyers to handle a barking dog complaint, and 4 more to write it up.”
Exactly.
What we’ve got here is a nation-wide situation. It’s like sending a SEAL platoon in to do the mission of a Laundry Platoon. You don’t send killers in to push paperwork. It’s beyond over-kill.
Or is this just an issue in red states, where the politicos and their police henchfolk are too scared of citizens owning weapons and videoing police operations?
My biggest issue with LEO of late isn’t their tactics, it’s their LACK of involvement. In my town, I’ve called 911 twice to report obviously intoxicated drivers. The police response BOTH times? Come to the station and make a report.
Criminals know this. We’ve had TWO home invasions in the last two months, both cases of guys looking for drugs and money, but the fact is, today they know each other, tomorrow they’ll be breaking into some stranger’s home looking for the same.
The second part of my beef is that cops on virtually all levels have turned not into law enforcement but revenue generation. But then again, those pretty shiny toys cost big bucks.
DaveO-most of the issues I’ve heard of with cops getting butthurt over being videotaped have been in blue areas like New York and Maryland. We had one guy here in NH, but the charges were dismissed and a number of the police in that town are being scrutinized VERY closely now.
Seeing that I live in Tucson, let me chime in.
The City Council is probably one of the more liberal ones in the country. The Judiciary seems to be the same way, very pro women, if your a man your fucked, etc. Dupnik is NOT the best Sherrif for the job, and I will definitely admit that even if with the rudimentary building clearing training I ve had during Basic, that SWAT made several mistakes.
The Guerena shooting was terrible, very terrible. Sadly, the city’s approach to it, and therefore the County (the shooting occured in City limits, the PCSD SWAT team is made up of all localities, not just TPD, Marana, Oro Valley, and South Tucson). Because of the retards on Council, nothing will be done. Bury the dead dog and move on approach.
Last but not least: the retards clearing this house are not indicative of the officers in the Tucson area. I personally know 6 on a very very good basis and they are all outstanding…witnessed a fire fight with one of them and they are very well trained. The SWAT raid was just one big clusterfuck as far as I am concerned.
I just wish someone would man up and say they fucked up, rather than try and cover their ass.