The funniest thing I’ve seen in days
Sorry I could not figure out how to imbed this. Er, Um.. seems magic is in play. Enjoy.
Where is Uncle Jimbo?
I can say thanks to Street via FB.
Update: I posted this rather like I might post a bit from The Three Stooges, or maybe W. C. Fields?
Category: Politics
While I have no love loss for little Susie and her ilk; I think the police officer should have explained what law they would be violating to be arrested. If he doesn’t know then he really can’t say something is illegal; right?
OT # 1: Even if this was orchestrated it is still funny. Kokesh had a camera crew there after all. I think Kokesh is yet another waste of oxygen, mind you, but it cracked me up.
whose the Stinko dancin w/ medea?
Where is the Pima County SWAT when you need them. They could have done a much better job of slamming Adam Cokeshit, couldn’t they? This is just tooooo funny. Like they think our national monuments are flippin’ dance halls? I was raised that they are places of respect, and have a very definite purpose.
I’m another old trooper, and extremely conservative, yet … I think, no matter how much you dislike this guy Adam – who I never heard of until I read your blog; who appears to me to be insignificant in the larger scheme – you should still be disturbed by the direction law enforcement is going in America. Any law enforcement officer acting in the manner those did on video is part of the problem. If an officer cannot provide answers to a peaceful question without the “Respect My Authoritah!” attitude; if an officer cannot cite the specific law, then the officer is wrong. Orders from LEOs are not, no matter what a court may have ruled, required to be obeyed. Remember the Nuremberg Trials and “unlawful orders”? Remember your oath, which does NOT require obedience to unlawful commands? That in fact specifically requires disobedience? Research the Law Of The Land and over 200 yhears of “precedent”. Those officers committed assault, and as they were implying deadly force by the wear and bear of firearms, it’ “aggravated”, “with intent”, and so on. History shows that when enough citizens get fed up, the damage will be intense. Police need to recall they are not enforcers, but are supposed to be peacekeepers. There is a difference. The video enraged me – against law enforcement – and maybe that was its’ intent; maybe it was planned that way. No matter; law enforcement screwed up. If they don’t changed their direction, they are going to loose the war of public opinion. And then God help us all.
#5 – Not being disrespectful but: It is common knowledge that you cannot protest inside of a Memorial – outside the memorial yes Inside No.
2) – they were there protesting another protest back in 2008. The court handed down the ruling and THAT is what these people in the video were protesting.
Here is a story on the Original Protest:
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/01/28/the-first-amendment-doesnt-protect-libertarian-hippies-who-dance-in-the-jefferson-memorial/
#5 The police were there to protect law and order and the dignity of the Park. The hippies were there for exactly opposite reasons. Do you feel that it is legal to dance in the nations memorials and monuments? If so, I guess one should also be allowed to dump their garbage there, to defecate there, to graffiti the place……… Those are MY monuments and memorials, and I expect MY park police to do all they can to maintain the dignity and the appearance of them.
# 6: Perhaps (in fact, I’m sure) they INTENDED to protest, but I did not see them doing so. I saw unlawful use of government force to prohibit the exercise of freedom; kinda like what happened in Red Square, Tiananmen Square, and other places. Police are right when they claim to place their lives at risk every day – especialy if they continue to enforce laws which subvert the Constitution. Recall if you will that judges are prohibited from making law; only the Congress can do that, and it can’t make any laws which are not in compliance with the Constitution as it is written. Any law not in complinace is null and void, is not a law, and has no force of law. Q.E.D., any cop who enforces such a law is claiming “I was only following orders”. Now where have we heard that before? ( HINT: http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/docs_swi.php?DI=1&text=overview ). BTW, I’m a soldier and I’ve served in law enforcement, so yes, I see it from both sides. But I never followed orders blindly …
Cop’s daughter here.
They knew exactly what they were doing and exactly what law they were breaking. They planned this well:
http://www.meetup.com/WeAreChangeDC/events/19556901/
What I saw was an officer doing his job, respectfully and patiently explaining to them why they would be arrested as well as how long they’d have to stay in jail.
They proceeded with their demonstration anyway. One for which they knew they needed a permit but did not obtain.
These are professional activists who knew exactly how to manipulate the situation on camera. Sorry, no sympathy for them here.
1. Codepink, et al, show up at a memorial to jefferson.\
2. We don’t get to see what jackassery brought the police over–but given that DC sees busloads of kids, teens, and tourists every single day, you have to get pretty out of line to be told to go away or even behave by the park police.
3. The DC police are very aware of codepink, and their damn near daily attempts to stir shit.
4. The officer told them “Stop doing X or I will arrest you.”
5. You can argue all day that “X” is legal, but the cop is responsible for maintaining order and the peace. Therefore, if you do “X” and the cop has told you to stop doing “X,” you get arrested. No one is arguing you don’t have the right to sing, dance, act like a douchebag, etc. What you don’t have a right to do is act that way when it violates the law, which I think is this case is both disturbing the peace as well as protesting without a permit in the Mall, and protesting in the monuments themselves.
6. The dude dancing with medea benjamin (ack, spit) should have his head examined. And his eyes.
#7 – No, they are not your memorials and momuments. They are ours.
And did you see any sign of garbage, defecation, graffiti? I didn’t.
It’s significant, I think, that the only exhibition of force or violence was on the part of the police.
The dignity of human freedom, of the “American experiment” is more important to me than anything else. I swore to lay down my life protecting it, and came extremely close many times. I’ll do so again if need be.
Please don’t introduce strawman arguments into this. I for one can not read the “protestors” minds, and don’t care what they intended to do – I only care about what the video shows happening. I saw no violation of any law other than disobedience of blind authority. If you haven’t yet senn it, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIVHNylH1Mk.
Nuff said.
Correction to my last: the URL for the entire clip is:
You will respect my authoritah”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rtwb34Pd1k
Cops have a tough job, but they are not our Masters. Most don’t even try, but there is a minority, and the rest form that blue wall of silence discussed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Code_of_Silence.
Color me biased towards freedom.
Between this and the video of Dan Choi getting face planted in Moscow, today is not a good day for douche bags.
#8 The dancing was the protest.
I’m a bit uncomfortable with how fine a line that is walking with respect to our freedom. However, I also don’t want to visit the mall and have to wade through people jack ass’ing around inside the memorials and turning them into a theater of the absurd.
“If you are dancing in here, you are demonstrating” seems to cover what law they were told they were violating re: the rules of attendance in an area governed by the U.S. Park Service. And, I believe that Congress gave the Park Service the authority to govern demonstrations in Memorials, on the Mall, and other places.
Don’t know how I ended up “anonymous” in #15, but it was I, or it were me.
Did anybody besides me notice the NPS cops were wearing blue shirts not white? And the sergeant’s insignia is worn upside down?
UP? You always go anonymous LOL
@13 – is this what you refer too???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmDTbnztHgY&feature=player_embedded
OMG…LOL…
Street, well sometimes, but that’s usually at the bar.
so .. was today national and worldwide fruits/nuts and commie day? wonder what else is out there…
That police officer was polite and professional. He told the smelly hippies what would not be tolerated and what the repercusions would be. Fuck em.
#19 – See this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Red_Square_demonstration
Read The Protest and The Trial.
I have a friend, in her 80’s, who remembers Stalin, Kruschev, Hitler,and the others who demanded slavish obedience. You should hear her story ….
The Park Police Sergeant doesn’t have to explain the law or cite the law or open the conversation up to legal debate as to what constitutes dancing.
He did the right thing by simply telling them what the can’t do, which was dance.
Given that reasonable warning, they proceeded to disobey a lawful order and force the closure of a national monument for their selfish purposes.
CarlS wrote: “if an officer cannot cite the specific law, then the officer is wrong.”
No, CarlS, you are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Another useless sea lawyer.
And yes, I am a lawyer. If you care to correct me with a federal case or statute to support your bloviated spew, please enlighten me. You may want to start with “arraignment” which occurs after arrest.
Useless sea lawyers.
re #22 While I dislike certain attitudes probably more so than you do, I am trained to compartmentalize my personal versus professional judgements and actions. Were you physically there? I removed that particular hardware (beta) component about 6 years back when support was withdrawn by venture capitalists. It never did work correctly. That’s why I couldn’t smell anything in the video.
Adirondack: I no longer teach law. Do your own research. It would probably help if you started out with an open mind.
Children frequently stick fingers in their ears and scrunch theior eues closed, shouting “I can’t hear you”. I would expect a lawyer to be more mature.
That’s not meant ot be an insult. I just wanted to point out that you are not helping your case.
Would you prefer a cop who makes up his or her own laws? Would you bow down and obey? That’s YOUR privilege. I don’t require anyone’s permission to exercise my freedoms. As long as I am not interfering with anyone else ….. I’m a free and independent Citizen, with state and federal papers, and I never needed a Paper of Manumission. Why, I’ve even got a birth certificate !
How many of you noticed the cop’s rank is upside down? Blue shirts viruses white shirt? This is another Adam jaque off video….
NPS PD never wears it rank upside down…
Hey AP? You are a sea lawyer? Damn puddle pirates….
Oh yes….NPS PD does not wear blue shirts……..
This is really quite simple. They were trying to gin something up (hence the camera crews ready) to make some video footage about the loss of freedom or facist cops or whatever the hell they were protesting about. The cops determined that dancing/making out (and you can bet if the cops let that go it would have escalated) and gave ample warning to these 60’s protesting wannabe’s (well, the code pink chippie looked like she was from the 60’s) that if they broke the law they would be arrested and he was kind enough to tell them that if they lived more then 50 miles away then their Memorial Day Weekend would be spent in the pokie.
Frankly, if the cop is wrong then the judge is the one to decide. Anyway, too bad the cops didn’t have tasers, Then the phoney protesters would have been able to have their dance. Just kidding, well mostly.
Can’t stand Adam. The kindest thing I can say about him is he is a supreme asshole. Can’t stand the hippies. I understand they were trying to stir shit up.
However, I am far more bothered by the reaction of the police. He started off trying to be polite, but the moment he was challenged and immediately obeyed he let his personal emotion dictate the actions.
Some of you are agreeing because the people in this case happen to be people you don’t like, but what if this had been a group of people you have sympathy for and it was a liberal cop busting them for not being PC?
I am a veteran. I spent 8 years serving to defend this country and its Constitution. The type of reaction I saw from the police was extremely disturbing to me. It is not the type of country I thought I lived in. We might agree with it today because the people jailed in this case were asshats. However, in this country you are allowed to be an asshat.
Were they out to cause trouble? Yes, almost certainly, but the arrests started too soon in my opinion. I could just as easily argue the police were looking for any reason to arrest someone because they didn’t like them, and used the slightest provocation to exert their authority. That’s a slippery slope.
Sorry, but while I sympathize with many here and believe Codepink-type protesters are wastes of skin it doesn’t make what the police did right. I think both groups were wrong and our country is not better off from either action.
argh, change “and immediately obeyed” to “and NOT immediately obeyed”. Kind of a key word to miss there….
Its a setup! people. It’s a setup! Only took me a few dozen times of viewing it to figure that out. Kokesh went down way too easy, way to easy. Been me? I’d bounced the backside of his skull off the floor, made it at least a .2 on the Richter scale. Lilyea, who is the asshat Medea is dancing with? I know we’ve seen him before…
BTW, Melony posted it. All credit goes to her…
That’s Tighe Barry, Code Pink’s token man.
CarlS: It’s regrettable that you declined to do the research. Then again, as they say: Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.
Here’s the case that probably prompted Kokesh and his lackies to misbehave, Oberwetter v. Hilliard. It was published on May 17, 2011 based on a dancing demonstration that occurred at the Jefferson Memorial in 2008:
http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/748BE2DE8AF2A2A485257893004E07FC/$file/10-5078-1308285.pdf
So, lacking any hint of originality, Kokesh had to plagiaraize his “demonstration” based on a 2008 demonstration.
See if this sounds familiar: When asked to leave, Oberwetter asked for a lawful reason compelling her to do so. Oberwetter was then detained – allegedly with excessive force – and subsequently served with citations for interfering with an agency function and, more troublingly, public demonstration without a permit.
Please take note of the law as pronounced by the D.C. Court of Appeals: Public lands are not necessarily public forums.
“As a general matter, the interior space of national memorials has not traditionally “been used for purposes of assembly, communicating thoughts between citizens, and discussing public questions.” Perry, 460 U.S. at 45 (quoting Hague v. Comm. for Indus. Org., 307 U.S. 496, 515 (1939)) (internal quotation marks omitted). National memorials are places of public commemoration, not freewheeling forums for open expression, and thus the government may reserve them for purposes that preclude expressive activity.”
Anything else I can look up for you, CarlS, please let me know.
@35 – Thanks John!! Thought that was who that was…just couldn’t think of the name.
er…Jonn..sorry bout that!
Well, at least we’ve had a free-ranging discussion … I’d like to leave with some thoughts: Our founding basic law, the law which supersedes and authorizes all others, is the Constitution. As it is written. Interpretation does not enter into it – the document itself provides very specific guidance on the only way in which it can be changed. It says, and the supreme Court has ruled multiple times, that neither the court, congress, nor the executive can change the Constitution. See Article V. As the Court has recognized “McCullough v.Virginia, 172 U.S. 102 (1898) It is elementary law that every statute is to be read in the light of the constitution. However broad and general its language, it cannot be interpreted as extending beyond those matters which it was within the constitutional power of the legislature to reach.” The limits placed on each branch of government are spelled out in the COnstitution. Any laws not in compliance are invalid. Now, Morals and Ethics are no the same. Our government exhibits very little of either, and any instropsective examinationof the psychology of governments, of corporations, reveal the same characteristic – that of survival of the organization, no matter what “sacrifices” have to be made. Legal is also not the same as Right. What Hitler did was legal – under his government. The same holds true for Beria, Stalin, Kruschev, Pol Pot, and Lincoln. Well, let me amend that. What Lincoln did was legal only in that he set the Constitution aside. Think not? Read his own archives; he admitted it. But the main point is – police may be following the “law”, but that does not mean the law if right, not in compliance with the Constitution. “I’m just doing my job.” is no different than “I was just following orders.” Go back to # 8 and read the Nuremberg reference. Delve into it; it’s fascinating, yet horrifying to listen to the testimony. Why I don’t do law, or teach law? I don’t need to. I am beholden to no one, financially or otherwise, and I do what I please.… Read more »
@ Adirondack:
Yes, I remember hearing about this when it was first done a few years ago (link below). The original one was organized by Libertarians. The guy in the video, Jason Talley, is one such Libertarian. To my recollection, the original purpose was to celebrate Thomas Jefferson’s birthday and his ideas.
http://youtu.be/H7CMd-BiR04
Although I do lean towards the Libertarian side of the political spectrum, (every “political survey/test” I’ve taken shows the same results), I remember leaving a not-so-favorable comment on the whole “dancing” schpiel. At the time, I avoided commenting about National Memorials being hallowed ground and that we should respect the dignity of such places. Believing their sincerity about celebrating Jefferson’s ideas, I instead focused on the method by which they chose to express themselves.
Like I said, my main critique was the methods by which their celebration was carried out, which was very ambiguous and confusing to ordinary people at the site. Thus, the guards became suspicious and took action, which resulted in an arrest and thus becoming a First Amendment issue. I told them, if I were to organize with a bunch of friends to celebrate Jefferson’s birthday at the Memorial, a simple Birthday Cake (either a real or symbolic cake) and quiet song at the foot of the statue would certainly be sufficient enough as a way of inviting people in on the celebration and, at the same time, educate people about Jefferson’s and his ideas.
Unfortunately, my advice was not heeded and now the anti-American, Pro-Leftist Code Pink is hopping on the Bandwagon, claiming Thomas Jefferson’s views are in line with their own, and is now planning on doing this next week.
http://youtu.be/6UyiaR1PDhQ
If we know of anyone in the DC area, we should let them know about it.
@ CarlS – TIDES Foundation funds their activities.
#39 – This was a protest to protest the Court Decision from an earlier case, in 2008.
One Mary Oberwetter and a group of people decided to do this very same thing on the eve of Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday – 12 April, 2008. She was subsequently arrested. She then sued.
In the case Oberwetter v. Hilliard (aka, Hippie v. The Man), the court concluded that:
the Jefferson Memorial qualified as a “nonpublic forum” for First Amendment purposes, so that restrictions on speech there were constitutional if they were viewpoint-neutral and reasonable, and
the limitation on conduct in the Memorial “which involve[s] the communication or expression … [and] has the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers” was indeed viewpoint-neutral and reasonable.
(source of info here: http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/01/28/the-first-amendment-doesnt-protect-libertarian-hippies-who-dance-in-the-jefferson-memorial/ )
The court docs can be found here: https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2009cv0588-14
Thanks, all, for the elucidation. I’ve been aware from the beginning, in fact since days before the event that this was a planned photo op. I couldn’t care less what another group of money-seeking scumbags does in our parks and memorials; if they trash them or otherwise cause problems that are malum in se (evil in and of itself) versus malum prohibitum (wrong only because it’s prohibited), then they should be apprehended, arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and punished for the malum in se misconduct. If not simply “stopped”. My concern is our increasing inaction which grants law enforcement the power to arbitrarily charge a malum prohibitum offense. Wheh the police themself cannot tell you exactly what law you are breaking they are assuming authority they do not have, and which the court cannot grant them. To allow government to have control of otherwise lawful activities, to allow agents of government to decide what is wrong when they can not cite a law is to allow tyranny. That’s the way the MGB and KGB did business. That is not American; it is reminiscent of the Soviet Gulag era. To me the offenses being committed by government – the violations of our basic law – are much more offensive than what a few irrelevant demonstrators are doing. The demonstrators have power only because we pay attention to them and thus encourage the media to publicize their offenses. Perversions committed by government(s), however, are, IMHO, much worse, and we grant government expanded power by ignoring what it does, or by refusing to see the unlawful acts they are making the norm. Visit any law shcool and ascertain just what they do and do not teach aspiring lawyers. Just as they are doing in our elementary, intermediate, and high schools, in most universities, they teach the “new” history, the “new” interpretation, the desired understanding. And whoa to he who challenges a professor! You go along to get along or you don’t graduate. Just because a lawyer becrowned as a judge says something doesn’t necessarily mean it is correct. In Soviet Russia, they did only… Read more »
The only thing I was mentioning was that the officer did not tell them, when asked, what law they were breaking to be arrested for. That is the only thing I have a problem with. If they were breaking the law; fine, arrest them, but cite which law you are going to arrest them for breaking when you warn them, otherwise, it can be taken as an “unlawful arrest”.
Re 44. That’s (telling them specifically which law was broken) the job of the DA and judges. Law enforcement merely arrests/detain based upon a suspected violation…..which is why you can be arrested and then release without charges being filed.
From another POV, its like an advice nurse telling you to come in and be seen by the doctor. She doesn’t have the expertise to tell you exactly what is wrong, just that there are aspects about your current health that are concerning….so come in to be seen by an expert.
Andy; what was the suspected violation? If the arresting officer doesn’t know what he’s arresting you for, that makes it kinda ambiguous; no? If the arresting officer can’t tell you why he’s arresting you, that kinda falls under unlawful; perhaps?
Glad to see some folks get the point. If an officer can ARREST you, physically ASSAULT you, THREATEN you, et al, without providing a reason, then probable cause might be a problem. How are you to kln ow if that officer is not just misusing his office? Oh, that’s right …they are police officers, wearing a uniform and a badge; they must be trustworthy.
Maybe so; maybe not. Read Injustice Everywhere ( http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/ ) each day. Go back through its’ archives. Search for your state.
You might be surprised at how prevalent is officer misconduct, officer conspiracy, officer violent crimes. If you’re a cop; local, county, state, federal, or any other of the plethora of gun-toting agents, especially the BATF (see Project Gunwalker at http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker ), then you won’t be surprised. It’s a matter of record that all except cops still in the academy know all about this.
Truthfully, when anyone in a police uniform walks up with a gun, holstered or not, your cash, your property, your liberty, your life is at stake. See this example: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?293452-Cops-Stealing-Cash-from-Tennessee-Drivers .
Andy, the analogy doesn’t work. A nurse is asking you to do something. A cop is telling you to do something, and is threatening your life for failure to comply.
Keep in mind that the video only shows what the videographer wants it to show……so we don’t know what conversation the officer had with the protestors before the camera turned on.
In the video the officer states “if you come out here demonstrating, like dancing, then you will be arrested. Does everyone understand that?” “If you live more than 50 miles from the District of Columbia then you will spend the night weekend in jail.” “You are too far away from the city to allow a citation to reappear, therefore they lock you up and hold you for court.” “I am just giving you your warnings now.” “If you dance and demonstrate….If you’re dancing in here you’re demonstrating …unintelligible….” “What is dancing? What if you are out of time with the music?”
To me that is a fair warning to cease my current course of action. I can always litigate it later.
Re.46 It is either lawful or unlawful, not kinda. California law allows a suspect to be held for 48 hours before charges have to be filed. California law also allows for a mental health evaluation hold of 72 hours. You can be arrested, without committing a single criminal act, and held in a hospital for 72 hours. So yes, an arrest can be made without knowing the exact charge and it is not illegal. Unprofessional/unprepared? Yes. Illegal? No.
But my experiences are 1996-2000, so they are rather dated.
Andy, I’m not arguing that they weren’t begging to be arrested, but what I am concerned about is that it seems many police officers use that blanket 24/48/72 period as a crutch for them not knowing the laws they are supposed to enforce. Lately, we are seeing more examples of some officers not knowing the laws. Maybe that’s why the arrest and hold time is there to begin with; to save the officer?
I guess my libertarian streak is peeking out from behind my conservatism.
Andy,
The video shows …. I can only speak to what I see and hear; things that are not in the video are not under discussion. Or at least shouldn’t be. Hearsay, remember?
“You live too far to allow a citation to reappear.” WTF ? Misdemeanors, traffic tickets, et al, always allow for a citatin to reappear. Otherwise, every speeder would need to be locked up until … Why is this any different? Corrupt District judges, perhaps?
So you can be held in California … This was not Kalifornia. Or have you forgotten that?
Please stick to the case at hand.