The post-DADT Navy
Nothing illustrates the problems facing the military in the post-DADT era than this article from the Washington Post;
To hear Navy Petty Officer Stephen C. Jones tell it, what happened in his bedroom one night last month was purely innocuous: Another male sailor came by to watch “The Vampire Diaries,” and they both dozed off in the same bed. “That is the honest, entire story,” Jones said.
Personally, I think everyone who falls asleep while watching “The Vampire Diaries” should be booted from the military because it is so mega-awesome only morons can fall asleep while it’s on the television. Of course, the pair were at the Naval Nuclear Power Training Command, near Charleston, S.C. and we all know how “those people” are (wink, wink).
According to the article, Jones has been charged with “willful failure to exhibit professional conduct” which it certainly is. A sailor found sacked out in his bunk with a female sailor would probably face the same charge whether sex had happened or not.
…The trouble started shortly after midnight on Feb. 6, when Jones’s roommate, Tyler Berube, returned from an out-of-town trip.
As he opened the door, Berube saw Jones “asleep in bed with another male sailor,” according to a statement that Berube gave to investigators. Berube stated both were wearing only boxer shorts but got dressed and left after he woke them up.
Jones disputes the fact that both were wearing only boxer shorts. He said he was wearing pajamas – that doesn’t help. Like I said, it’s unprofessional behavior even if it was a woman in the sack with him.
Category: Military issues
There have been a flurry of these sorts of stories in the more recent past.
The anachronistic geezer (ala Gunny Highway) in me can only offer WTF and sound like an reactionary ass.
So I’ll just say… Never mind, it’s for The good of the Navy; it HAS to be.
Our friend and poster, NHSparky was a Nuke….. just sayin’…… 😀
::runs::
Huh…nuke pipeline must be getting easier. When I went through I don’t recall having any time for this faggotry. Then again, when I went through the pipeline it was in Orlando through NPS and then prototype, where the females used to go to boot–and if you couldn’t get laid there, hand in your man card.
And yeah–any movie with shit that “sparkles”, be it vampires or show tunes, clue numbah one. So no, do not believe it was “innocent”. Nor does anyone else in their chain of command, more than likely.
Gives a whole new meaning to the term, “hot bunking”.
Fucking pajamas? Most likely covered in bunnies and unicorns.
GruntSgt, agreed, in all the time I spent living in open squadbays I don’t ever remember a Marine wearing pajamas. Must be a Navy thing ;-).
When I was in the military, there were plenty of rules about male-female interaction. At certain times, males and females were strictly segregated. No male would want to be caught in a female’s room, and vice versa. Both could get in big trouble.
So now, are we going to have a rule that says that no males can be in a male’s room? I mean, that would only be fair right? Otherwise, homos could visit their boyfriends after hours but heterosexuals couldn’t visit their girlfriends.
EQUAL RIGHTS FOR HETEROSEXUALS!
No, what illustrates the Real problem facing the military is that a Commander can’t preserve good order and discipline in his Command without it showing up in the Washington Post.
This is what we’ve come to… never would have believed it.
Marine 83 #5: It may just be a bubble-head thing? They used to wear some outfit called a ‘poopy’ suit
I sure don’t recall any PJs in the WWII open bay barracks NOR on board four different ships (40 plus years ago).
Of course, this is The New Navy so who knows?
#6 This is what I have been talking about. There is so many policy problems with this. When my husband was in Afghanistan- at least one guy got slammed(permanent file) for being behind closed door with a female. He swore it was innocent(not that anyone believed him). How can they continue this policy- when you can have homosexuals bunking together?
Two grown men admitting to watching a show called Vampire Diaries is worthy of a BCD in of itself.
Pile on getting caught spooning your boyfriend in his fluffy bunny boxers… no comment.
The only solution is to adopt a truly blind culture. No segregation in berthing or bath facilities. Men, women, queer and lez all bunk together. No separate PT requirements. All men and women are required to perform to the same PT standard. No age discrepancy either. You better run the mile and a half (2 miles… whatever) in the same pace as everyone else. If that were the case, then I’d be all for a full repeal of DADT.
Now that DADT is repealed… does it mean you can start asking and demand an answer?
Let’s look at this from a different angle. It *is* still winter-ish, and we all know, if it’s cold, it’s not gay.
Right? Right?
If they were wearing pajamas and lying in the same bed, I hope they were gay, because most straight men wouldn’t be caught dead putting on their PJ’s to watch a movie with another man.
[…] This ain’t Hell… highlights the post-DADT military […]
I can’t believe they don’t have more real problems to punish. How is this even an issue? Who the hell cares who crashes in whose bed? When I was living in barracks, we would always go over each other’s rooms to watch TV, and always watch it on the bed, because really, it’s not like anyone has a couch. Sometimes people would crash, especially if there was drinking involved. It wasn’t a big deal.
Now people want rules to legislate this? Really, who the hell cares? Even if they were having sex, is it really an issue?
When I was living in barracks, we would always go over each other’s rooms to watch TV, and always watch it on the bed, because really, it’s not like anyone has a couch. Sometimes people would crash, especially if there was drinking involved. It wasn’t a big deal.
Now people want rules to legislate this? Really, who the hell cares? Even if they were having sex, is it really an issue?
==========
Hmmm, hanging out in each others’ rooms, drinking, having sex… sounds like military life in the barracks is not much different than college dorm life.
You guys should start putting that in your ads.
AS: Well, there were regs against having females in your room with the door closed, period. As a NCO you, of all people, should know what in the hell it’s about. Or, when you went the PLDC did they forget to mention fraternization? Or, did you forget all about being a NCO when you were in the barracks? Same goes in this case. Now that there is the new openly gay military, there is going to have to be some modification of what constitutes fraternization; right? I’m not saying it never happened/happens, however, when you get caught, you pay the piper. Or, should only certain regs be enforced? Kind of like out President only wanting to uphold certain laws and ignore others.
I guess the policy and the UCMJ are at odds? I have no idea.
Having lived aboard five ships between 1974 and 1993, it was the “in a sardine can” kind of life. Even when I was in the First Class Section of a berthing area or it was a separate space, it was tight. We sat on the deck to play cribbage. I lived in one barracks. We lived as most have described.
My issue is whether the UCMJ will take precedence as will the MCM?
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm125.htm
But there is this possible wrench to the Post-DADT Services.
Notice AS won’t comment on this topic http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=22394
Sometimes people would crash, especially if there was drinking involved.
In pajamas, nightgowns, or just their underwear?
Can’t recall ever crashing in the same bunk with another guy when I was in the Army. And if I had, I wouldn’t have stripped down first.
1. Men don’t “crash” in bed with other men, in underwear, pajamas, hoodie footies, or even in full up plate mail. If one man falls asleep in a bed that is his, the other man gets off the bed.
2. This assumes, of course, that the men were sitting on the bed to begin with. Not laying down.
3. A man, upon falling asleep on some other man’s bed, will be woken and to GTFO.
4. Of course, I can’t speak to the sleeping hapits of teh gheys, REMFs, or members of IVAW (for the redundancy hat-trick.)
Another thing; in my unit, if you had a female in the barracks it was like a beacon being shined on the area, because we didn’t have women in our unit, so there was no way of having them walking through the halls to begin with. One guy made the mistake of having a young lady in his room overnight and got caught by Top on Sunday morning (Top would do “victory laps”, as he called them, through the barracks at any time, day or night). He got an article 15 and company duty for 2 months for that little piece of tail. I’m guess ing if he were to have been privy to what these 2 jokers were doing, the same thing would have befallen them.
Throughout my career I’ve seen a mix of behaviors that represent almost everything described above, can’t say that I ever saw any big deal made out of any of it though. Don’t know why my units weren’t negatively affected by any of it in 20 yrs. A maturity thing maybe? Most of us were far more concerned about the quality of chow than we were about who was in who’s bed.
Shouting out to our resident lawyers, all hyperbole aside, do any of you have a clear idea of how Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003), effects the UCMJ’s sodomy laws? I’m not making any jokes, just curious.
The United States Army Court of Criminal Appeals has ruled that Lawrence has relevance on the UCMJ. At least two DADT cases were overturned based on Lawrence. The court went on to say that this did not apply to ” “outside any protected liberty interest recognized in Lawrence.” They left this pretty open to fraternization and anything that effected good order and discipline.
Here is one of the cases involving consensual “copulation” under the UCMJ. United States v. Bullock
http://sldn.3cdn.net/d6b14f304ea2ac3439_sbm6bxfa9.pdf
Thanks melle, that’s along the lines of what I was looking for.
Of course, I can’t speak to the sleeping hapits of teh gheys, REMFs, or members of IVAW (for the redundancy hat-trick.)
As a former REMF, I resent the association…