Duff: We were smarter and tougher than WWII vets
Gordon Duff made perhaps the stupidest comment on the internet made by any veteran ever. First of all let’s look again at who is talking. According to his records, Duff reported to basic training, or boot camp, or whatever you Marines call it, on February 28, 1969, on August 22, 1970 he was in Fort Living Room waiting for someone to invent cable TV. 18 months of military service. Of that time, he was in Vietnam August 5, 1969 until August 5, 1970. Out of those twelve months he spent from August 5, 1969 until Christmas day as a rifleman – the rest was spent as a gopher in the S-3 shop. I’m not disparaging his service – majors need someone to fetch their coffee and fluff their pillow, too.
But you’ll see where I’m going when you read his idiot comment;
Bobby,
Rather than “liberal” I would point out we were better educated, more independent, and fought a brutal war with less “down time” than any American army since the Revolutionary War.
gDuff spent 18 months in the Marines. There were Marines in the Pacific that were there on Dec. 7th, 1941 and didn’t see home until after August 1945. Now unless the Revolutionary War was fought after the Second World War, his math might be off a bit. The same comparison could be made for soldiers in the Civil War who marched off to war in 1861 and didn’t get home until the summer 1865 – that’s longer than a year, too – but I didn’t need to tell you that, because you’re better at math than Duff.
And I have to tell you, candidly, that list of awards on Duff’s FOIA is REAL light for a TOC Rat. Battalion pogues usually get medals for an especially good job of tightening tent ropes on the officers’ toilet. Couldn’t get the hang of that, Gordon?
Those of you who know me know that I highly respect Vietnam veterans, that on countless occasions I’ve credited the training I got from some of the toughest and smartest warriors whoever wore the uniform in Vietnam for my survival and the survival of my soldiers. And I’m pretty sure that most Vietnam vets would credit WWII and Korean War veterans for their success and return home.
No, Duff, you’re a fucking Liberal, you aren’t tougher or smarter than anyone, maybe that mouse you keep in your pocket…but that’s it. That’s your whole problem, dipshit. We’re all veterans no matter how or why we served, or how long, or what our jobs were. I don’t think there’s more than one or two real veterans I’d throat punch, but you just joined that list Gordo.
And yeah, the VFW disrespected Vietnam veterans by disallowing them in the organization. But, your generation taught them a lesson…they came to my door and offered to pay half of my life membership dues if I’d join. So be a fucking man for a change and get over it – you limp-wristed pussyboy.
Next time you want to measure dicks, go measure them with Code Pink, you might come out ahead.
Thanks to TSO for the link.
Category: Antiwar crowd, I hate hippies, Liberals suck
Subscribe
If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to receive more just like it.
1) We fluff our own pillow. No need to EM coodies on them.
You can’t compare WWII with Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan.
At one of the Legion Posts, that I was visiting, I was talking with several WWII Vets as we played some cards. A couple of them were talking about where they were and what they did and then 1 of them turned to another guy at the table and said “you were at Normandy; what was it like for you?” The guy replied “I was in the 2nd wave so we didn’t have it so bad”, but to understand what he meant; he only lost half of his company. I doubt Gordy could comprehend anything like that.
“on August 22, 1970 he was in Fort Living Room”
Is that what the Army calls it? In the Corps, we referred to it as “1st CivDiv.”
I think you hit that nail solidly Jonn.
Duff does have one point; although it takes some mental gymnastics to make it important. Of course more modern vets are better educated than their predecessors. Personally I wouldn’t call that a plus considering what passes for education just now, but that’s just me, and not relevant.
The balance of your citation of Duff is just silliness, as you noted.
The VFW didn’t allow Vietnam vets to join? When was this? When did the policy change?
Ben #5: I dunno the actual policy details, but I came back in ’69 and was told no thanks (politely).
I joined in 1970 and there were a few vietnam vets already in the post. We never seemed to be accepted and like the Korean vets were treated as second class soldiers. We have buried almost all of our ww2 vets, and it has been interesting to find out that the biggest talkers did the least combat while the quiet ones were heavily engaged. Sort of like now with the vietnam vets.
My father was a WWII vet. Navy, Construction Battalion (CB’s). I grew up with the funny stories of his time in France. When I got older, I made the connection, and asked him privately one day if he had been involved in the invasion of Normandy. He hesitated, then said, “Yes. We went onto the beaches D-Day +3.” He didn’t add anything else, I said “Oh,” after a few seconds, and turned to walk out of the room. Very quietly, he added, “There were areas on that beach that you couldn’t take a step, without stepping on the body of a soldier, either German or American.” I froze, because that was the first time he’d ever indicated he’d seen anything to do with combat. I turned to look at him, to see if he was going to say anything else.
That was one of two times I ever saw tears on my father’s face.
Had Vietnam been conducted like WWII, we would have won within 2yrs. The WWII guys who saw combat went through hell. This country no longer knows what victory is about and has no stomach for conducting war in its proper manner.
That’s similar to my mom’s dad’s story Pinto.
And my mom’s step dad, who was among the first American liberators through the gates at one of the concentration camps, steadfastly refused to talk of his time in Europe his entire life.
I took care of a patient (as a Nurse’s Aide) in the early 1980’s, who was in Treblinka. If you want to see me grind my teeth, let someone tell me the Holocaust never happened. That poor old man was 90 when I knew him, and he’s gone on since, but I’ll never forget the things I heard from him.
Pinto, I will always have to wonder about my Dad. Officially, he was shipboard for the Pacific campaign, as bodyguard for Adm. Spruance. Yet, when we planned both our funerals, he got a look on his face and turned away a bit when he said that we should “wrap me in a blanket and drop me in the hole. If it was good enough for the guys (who fell/we buried on the islands) it is good enough for me. I know he saw far more than he let on, but he never really spoke of it. He talked about shipboard, about “funny” stories including sleeping on the Hiroshima bomb, but never did talk about the rest.
To Minuteman in #9- I kind of consider having no stomach for conducting war in its “proper manner” as a good thing. If we become the bloody-thirsty war mongers you’d like us to be, I’d become kind of worried. There’s a reason so many people who have been to war refuse to discuss the things they have seen….they would just as soon forget them.
So anonymous Jax-off, you consider WW2 vets blood-thirsty warmongers? Ok I consider you a moronic douche.
“I kind of consider having no stomach for conducting war in its “proper manner” as a good thing”
Anon
Having no stomach for achieving victory is never a good thing. Good and evil exist and fighting is occasionally necessary. When it becomes necessary, finishing a fight and returning order in the fastest, most difinitive way, is in the best interests of everyone. No one here desires anyone to become a ‘warmonger’, but when it’s time to fight, that fighting should be conducted with an eye toward achieving victory in as fast and ‘clean’ a manner as possible, it saves lives and minimizes suffering.
#8 and 11 PintoN, 10 Jacobite and 12 LW
Thank you for sharing.
#13 Anon in Jax
Problem with many of the younger generation is that the whole point of understanding “never again”, is to “never forget”.
Jacobite- I love how you slap the term, “achieving victory” on it and suddenly it sounds like this noble cause. You will never convince me that it is. You talk about good and evil existing in this world, but what about the atrocities that are being committed in African countries? We don’t seem too concerned with them, but do you deny that there are evils going on there? The American people seem to believe we need to “achieve victory” because greedy American politicians have convinced them that we need to. Because these countries in Africa have nothing to offer us, we don’t lend much of a hand to help end the genocide there. I recently did a research paper that included previous research on the illusion of truth effect. Participants were told stories and news headlines over the course of several different trials. They were told which were true & which were false, but at the end of the study, they recognized a lot of the false ones as true. And that is the illusion of truth effect….hear it enough times and you just say it’s true because you recognize it as something you have seen before. Excellent tool for marketing….and politicians.
And to Nucsnipe- I never called WWII vets bloodthirsty warmongers. I said there is a REASON that soldiers who have seen the atrocities of war choose to NOT speak about them….because they don’t have the stomach for it either…they would just as soon forget.
I loved John McCain’s Newsweek article because he finished it with a quote that I still remember even though the article came out like 5 years ago. He said that we “need not risk our country’s honor to prevail.”
To Anon in Jax I can appreciate all of this taking of the Moral High ground stuff, and rest assured we are better than than that. But you can bet your ass, our enemies have the stomach to prevail, no matter the cost. They’ll use whatever means it takes to bring us to our knees. Wether its flying planes into buildings, vaporizing one of our cities or a gas or biological attack, won’t bother them in the least.Singing kumbyah just ain’t gonna get it. I thank God or whatever higher power is out there everyday for those “Rough Man” who do violence on my behalf. Oh Anon, you get the Nevil Chamberland award for tonight. Rest easy tonight for some Rough Men are out there laying it on the line so you can turn out term papers.
Jackwagon…
You need to read about why men go to war. To defend what they love. They don’t go because they are blood thirsty war-mongers. They do it because of freedom.
If we, as a Country had never taken the risks, there would be no honor. Africa is not a threat to our safety as a nation, and it’s not about what they can offer us in the context you put it in.
And nobody denies the evils going on there.
As for your research paper…yep, that’s just what a liberal does. Write a story to hand to the public without any objectivity and report it enough and you get the ignorant masses believing it as truth. Think Olberman, Maddow, etc…and then look at whom they smear…Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh and any other conservative politician but no one smearing can provide proof that what is said is a lie…and they get away with it…Look at Soros’ attempt to black ball Fox or NPR and Williams. See a pattern there?
My five great Uncles all served in that war, and not one of them ever forgot it. And except for the Uncle who never made it home, literally, they would all do it again if they could, regardless of what they would like to forget because they have the audacity to believe that freedom is worth the fight, for us and whomever remains an ally.
“I’m not disparaging his service.”
—Sure you are. In fact that was the bulk of your post.
Jax,
It is a noble fight, for a number of reasons, but seeing as how you’re being too closed minded to even consider blatant evidence for why, and appear ignorant of some other reasons, I’m going to focus on something else for a second here.
I just have to assume you believe our roll into Iraq was for the purposes of securing free access to their oil fields. You didn’t come out and say it, but you pointing out the disposition of our overseas priorities more or less points to that.
OK, if that’s the case, answer me this, if we wanted their oil so bad, why didn’t we just buy it? Paying for their oil would have cost a fraction of what it’s taken to prosecute the war.
He has a few valid points. (hate to say that but it is true) The average Marine rifleman in WW2 saw less combat than the typical Vietnam Marine. A study was done by the Marine Corps which confirmed that. Some Marines were on the line in Vietnam for over four months at a time, then off to another hot spot in the country. Some of what he says is indeed true. The mere fact that some Marines were overseas from 12/7/41 to the end of the war is not really relevant. How much time on the line did they have?
And Marine officers don’t have pillows, but they sure as hell do drink a lot of coffee.
For Jax: If you go to any war with any other objective than total unconditional victory, stay at home and fuck your fist. You have already lost it. Those of us who have gone to war did so because it was what needed to be done, our government asked it of us, and others benefited from our efforts. We halfassed Korea, which set up our halfassing Vietnam, and as a result our enemies lost their fear of us. Many of my fellow Marines died in Beirut because of this legacy. Really, we halfassed first Gulf War too, because if we had done what we came to do and killed Saddam then, the second Gulf War would not have been necessary, and we would have a much stronger, more stable potential ally in Iraq than we have now. Bush the younger did that War right, but daddy screwed the pooch at the last minute and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
The only thing GW really messed up on was personnel numbers and material support. He allowed Rumsfeld to control the war-gamers to such a degree that military experience was taking a back seat to politics and computer modeling.
One of the laws of battle, “always bring more to the fight than you think you’ll need”, was ignored. So was “it always takes more to hold on to what you’ve taken than what was required to take it in the first place”. Fortunately the commitment was to victory and adjustments were made.
And Steve, I’d really like to see that study on the Marine experience in WWII and Vietnam, I have a feeling it’s not relative to the discussion the way you’re thinking it is. If you could track down a source I’d greatly appreciate it.
“But, your generation taught them a lesson…they came to my door and offered to pay half of my life membership dues if I’d join. So be a fucking man for a change and get over it – you limp-wristed pussyboy.”
Yeah, I’d like to echo your sentiments, the VFW is now RAN by ‘Nam vets… I know mine sure is!
Has anyone else noticed that the people in this thread that take the time to call out and shit on “liberals” are also the people who cannot spell the most basic of words. Sadly, conservatives demonize education because they are the most likely group to not have it.