Playing The College Game
Between June and September of every year is when the majority of enlisted servicemembers leave the military since high school graduation occurs towards the end of spring and early summer. Many of the people leaving the military in the coming months (whether they are retiring after 20+ years or leaving after one enlistment) are planning to go back to school and use their educational benefits which they have earned. Over the past few weeks, I have had a lot of friends still in the Corps asking me about going back to school. I really only have one piece of advice and that is that college is a game and you need to learn all the rules (and how to bend them) in order to be successful. So, I have decided make a post with some advice based on my experiences going back to school. If anybody has anything else to add, by all means post it in the comments section.
This post isn’t going to be a rant about what a Charlie Foxtrot the VA is or about the problems they had processing Ch. 33 (Post-9/11 GI Bill) claims. If you want a pretty complete documentation of that fiasco, head over to our friend Army of Dude who has done an outstanding job documenting the various issues with VA educational benefits. Also, if you want detailed instructions on how to apply for educational benefits from the VA, head over to their website. I plan to focus on more general pieces of advice with this post.
More below the fold…
1. Have at least five thousand dollars saved up before you start school.
Both the Montgomery GI Bill (MGIB) and Ch.33 pay benefits at the end of the month. However, in many cases you are going to have to pay for a lot of things like books, transcripts, applications fees, and living expenses up front. Also, as we all know, the VA isn’t exactly the most reliable organization when it comes to paying out cash and betting the farm (or apartment) on them being on time is not a wise decision. Having money set aside enables you to live a little more comfortably and breathe easier if the VA or your school screws something up.
2. If you didn’t complete any college courses in the military or prior to joining the military, don’t go to a school that doesn’t give course credit for military service or for SMART transcripts.
The school I am currently attending (Arizona State) doesn’t give credit for military service or SMART transcripts. This leaves many veterans at ASU at a huge disadvantage since they will have to use all of their 36 months of benefits and take a full course load the entire time they are in college. In addition they will have to decide on a major and begin taking courses for it almost right away. There is no room for any flexibility. Most schools will give at least six or seven credits that can be counted as electives even if you didn’t complete any training or corespondent courses that would appear on a SMART transcript. I have a friend at a SUNY school that recieved 14 credits for his time in the military. Having those extra credit gives you a little breathing room and it can help you graduate quicker.
3. Don’t do summer school and waste benefits if there aren’t any courses offered that count towards you major.
A lot of student veterans I know are taking summer school in order to still receive the Ch. 33 living allowance over the summer. However, in many cases they are taking classes that in many cases are unnecessary and don’t go towards their major requirements. This is a waste and could come back to bite them in the ass. Use your benefits over the summer wisely and make sure you aren’t just doing summer school to get a little extra cash over the summer.
4. Sign up for break pay between each semester.
This insures that you will get a full living allowance between winter and spring semesters. Some veterans don’t know what this is and don’t sign up for it when they complete their VA application or register with their school’s veterans office. You get an extra couple hundred dollars by checking a box-remember to do it.
5. Community College can be your best friend or worst enemy.
Community college classes are usually a little easier and more flexible. If you aren’t totally comfortable with a particular subject, consider taking it at your local community college and then transferring it over to a university. However, before you enroll at a CC, make sure the university you are attending will accept courses from that particular school. Also, most universities have limits on how many credits you can transfer from all other institutions, so make sure you don’t exceed that credit limit. If you do, you are probably SOL and just wasted some benefits.
6. Find other veterans on campus.
Having a buddy you can relate too is a huge help for obvious reasons. Also finding someone you maybe want to room with can be a big help and save some money.
7. Don’t constantly talk about your service in class.
I never hid the fact I was a veteran but I didn’t start off every sentence in class with “When I was in Iraq…”. It will annoy your fellow students (who you will probably not like but who you will have to work with) and your professors.
8. Find your local American Legion post and get in touch with the Department Service Officer if you are having problems with the VA.
These guys are a huge help when it comes to battling the VA over benefits that you have earned.
9. Accept the fact that no matter where you go to school, there are going to be people on campus that hate you simply because of your service and there is nothing you can do to change their minds.
This isn’t the 1960s’ or 1970s’, but there is still some hostility on campus towards the military and veterans. In many cases, its has nothing to do with politics or the wars. A lot of students resent the fact that veterans have their education mostly paid for and don’t have to worry too much about tuition increases. Don’t sucked into arguing (or throwing blows) with these idiots, it is a waste of time and energy.
10. Have Fun.
If anybody has anything else to add, please do….
Category: Military issues
11. Save every single scrap of paper you get from the VA and the Admissions Office. Make at least two copies of them along with copies of anything you turn in and have them somewhere safe. Keep a notebook handy and write down names, dates and times when you talked to anyone.
Aggravating as it is, this will save you a lot of grief when someone from either office misplaces your paperwork.
If you’re going back to school right after EAS, look into what unemployment benefits you can draw. I went back to school full time a month after discharge, three months after coming back from Iraq. I got six months of unemployment to the tune of $1100 per month on top of my GI Bill, since I was a full time student. Made the transition that much easier, as I was able to focus completely on school.
When the girls ask you why you were in the military, they will not believe you when you say, “Because of the education benefits,” or “I felt it was important to serve my country.” They will tell you it’s because you just wanted to kill people.
When asked, if you say, “Because I wanted to kill people,” and she says, “No, it’s because of the education benefits. It’s because you wanted to serve your country,” you should marry that one. I did, 27 years ago.
Break pay? Any more details on that?
I am just finishing two years online at AMU, and the one lesson I learned quickly was to take longer courses-AMU offers them as a two month or 4 month course. Each semester has a few days between the end of one course and the start of the next, which are unpaid by the GI Bill.
I just have a bit of advice for anyone thinking about getting a teaching certification. At this point in time, I would recommend against elementary education, unless you can also get a bilingual (Spanish…) certification. Now, if you wanted to do secondary math or science, you’ll likely have a much easier time of it finding that first teaching job than I have had with trying to find one in elementary education. Another option is special education, if you’ve the personality for it (I know I don’t…).
One other big piece of advice. Colleges are a business. As such they are about making as much money as possible. The advice on making sure credits transfer between institutions is key. Often if you change schools suddenly you find you have to retake classes, are given credit for classes already taken or they are simply not recognized by the new one.
Stay on top of the required courses for your selected major. Sometimes the requirement for degree will change in mid stream and you need to make sure the classes you are taking will count.
Quick story. I took classes in Computer Science working towards my degree. Because the curriculum was constantly being updated to keep up with changes in the civilian world, classes I took in year one and two were replaced by year 3 and 4. I never got that Bachelor’s degree. I had what I needed in core subjects but wound up short a Humanities class, you know music or art appreciation and one Science. Granted I was working on my degree while on active duty and the bottom line is I ran out of time because of having to make sure I had the required classes. BTW I have found out employers don’t care too much about my lack of music or art education, but they do appreciate my computer knowledge.
(Knowledge which is very dated).
Check with the Student Veterans’ Groups. There are Student Veterans of America (SVA) chapters nationwide. Also, there is usually someone in the Financial Aid office designated to handle GI Bill / Veteran’s benefits – they can be a good source of information / help.
I would also say that if you haven’t taken any college level classes before, to start with some Community College classes … I know that some states have “feeder” schools, so that you can start at a CC, and finish at a 4 year University.
Good luck!
Having made it through a bachelors and a masters degree, here is my advice. Remember that college isn’t always about the education. Especially with a bachelors degree, sometimes it’s more about learning to jump through the hoops than learning anything. I learned to approach it as a game and I was going to win. Because I was going to win, I learned the system and then I worked it. Talk to fellow students, learn who the good instructors are, and who the bad instructors are. Make summer school work for you….one summer I took 2 classes in organic chemistry that were the equivalent of 3 quarters of organic chemistry. What was the difference? They cut out all the crap. Show up to class every day and sit in the front row. If the instructor recognizes your face (especially in a class of 300+) when it comes time to plead your case on a test question that you thought was ambiguous or hard to understand, if they recognize you, generally it will go your way. For classes with labs and recitation, get a TA that speaks English as a first language. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to learn new material from someone that you can barely understand. And, remember that department don’t assign TAs based on their ability to teach. They are assigned based on their need to make money. With classes that are boring (and there will be many) just remind yourself that it is just a minor obstacle on your course to getting your degree. It’s just a game and you can win.
I started at a CC and when I did I went straight to the University I was going to transfer to and had their counselors tell me what to take so that it folded smoothly into their program. I did a bachelors in 3 1/2 years and the 1/2 was student teaching. That tip is a winner.
12. Talk to your professors and get to know them. This can make the difference in your grade. Plus you will be amazed how many of them are vets, at least here in San Antonio.
13. If there isn’t a vet group on campus, start one once you get to know some other vets at school.
14. Buy your books through Amazon, e-bay, or somewhere like that. Can save a ton of money.
15. If you are in any kind of science or engineering, save your notes each semester. You would be surprised how often you may need some refresher.
Oh, and be prepared to dislike for many of your fellow students. They are immature kids who have never done anything in their life, but think they have deep insight into EVERY topic on the planet.
I’m retired Air Force and an enrollment counselor at the University of Phoenix. My dept works exclusively with prior and current military members. I absolutely agree to have some money saved up for school. Chap30(MGIB) often falls short of paying for tuition at a university. It’s usually enough at a CC. A lot depends upon you having 100% coverage under MGIB or Post 911 GI Bills. Under Post 911, if you have 100%, and the school you want to attend participates in the Yellow Ribbon Program, you’re golden–it will pay for tuition and books at most schools, even under a masters program. If you don’t have 100% coverage under either GI Bill, consider applying for pell grants. Those that made $30k or less are usually eligible for the full pell grant amount that is over $5K. Note, I said eligible; just because you are eligible, doesn’t mean you will get the full amount! pell grants can only be used for undergraduate degrees, by the way. Also, don’t ignore Federal student loans. Be conservative with them, use them for what you need, not what you want–you will have to pay it back. Usually within 10 years after you graduate. Also, utilize in-school deferrals if you have a student loan you are currently paying, but want to go back to school for another degree. In-school deferrals will put the current loan payments on hold for the duratation you are in school. Hope this helps.
I got four degrees while using benefits. I was hondis from USMC in 1978 and went to a local community college where I took an associate of arts degree. I hadn’t finished high school but the counselor was sympathetic. Vets didn’t talk about service back then. You just kept your mouth shut.
I took the AA degree to a 4 year college and was admitted based on that rather than HS diploma. No one asked about HS after I had the AA. I got a BS in three years. Later I got an M.Ed. and then a Ph.D. I used my GI Bill benefits and when they ran out after 45 months, I used the Texas Hazelwood Act to pay tuition and building use fees, etc.
I good piece of advice–see if the local Vet Center on campus has a copying policy. Sometimes you can get free copying and save some money.
The local Registrar may or may not be helpful to Vets. Sometimes they are very helpful and sometimes they hate your ass for being a Vet.
Still didn’t finish high school. I hated that.
After copious e-mailing, I found a way to make my Master’s at AMU continue to work. My local campus of Univ.of Florida will allow me to apply and take Master-level courses as a Non-Degree Seeking Student. I had to write to both Vet Affairs and Admissions to finally get all this in writing. Now I can take one on campus seminar per semester and still get my housing stipend which, since I’m medically retiring and cannot work outside my home anymore, I need as part of my income. I have, however, also expressed my displeasure with this caveat to both my congressman and the local paper. I suggest you do the same if you were forced to take online courses while deployed and want to continue w/that school.
If you are a disabled vet or injured at any time in the service and have been re-evaluated at a % disability, you may qualify to pick up a Chapter 31 benefit, even if you have already used up your GI bill. There is no out of pocket, once you qualify you are issued a 1905 form which is basically a chit that pays for tuition, books, supplies, and required equipment for classes (ie. computer, calculator, tools, …). I was discharged honorable under medical in 1991, became a cop, and was retired from there under medical. I am now attending UF on my Chapter 31 benefits and will graduate next spring with my BS in Wildlife Biology. I went over the normal 48 months of benefits and they readily extended me to get my degree. I get a COLA stipend over my disability and school benefits for my kids. I am getting paid to go to school!
I applied online through the VA web-site and was in school two months later. It is a real gift and a break that I never thought I could catch. I talked to a retired SMAJ that worked in my local feed store about it, (he had a previous service-connected injury) and he started college this semester through Chapter 31 and he is now a Forestry major.
At UF we have the Veterans Collegiate Society and even a veterans frat. The VA office on campus is outstanding and will bend over backwards for us. If you can, get back in school, you will never regret it.
I appreciate the linkage Dan, but it points to the VA’s GI Bill page! Thanks for putting up your own observations, it’s always nice to have reminders.
Operator Dan: Fixed. I will haze myself later.
My strong advice is to get good advice when you go to school. Don’t pick a major based on some damned magazine articles. The fact is that when you are in the military, you probably don’t know beans about what degrees are hot in the civilian job market. You can’t trust the schools to tell you because they’re trying to fill seats in empty classes to pay the bills. They’ll tell you that Tibetan History is very useful in the job market if they’re trying to save their Tibetan History department. Remember, college bureaucrats are like used car salesmen. You need to find somebody in the business you want to enter to tell you the path he took, not some numbskull who hasn’t been there. When I was in the Air Force, I heard an MBA was a golden ticket so I saved my money, planned my benefits, and spent two years of my life hitting the books to get my degree. It did not pay off. Coming out of the military, you need training more than you need an education, ie training in a skill that employers will pay for. It should have been a red flag for me that I opened the job section of the paper and didn’t see any employers demanding to hire MBAs. You need a hard skill that an employer can put to work immediately like accounting, engineering, or comp sci. I particularly recommend comp sci. After my MBA, I went back to school a third time to get the education employers wanted. It took me about four years of night school in comp sci to become employable. My strong advice is to get into the computer field, especially if you have two years of time to spend completely on it, without distractions. And I don’t mean an IT degree, but real computing programming where you’re constantly programming the whole time. If you do that, you can probably snag a $60K job when you graduate. In ten years, you can break six figures. This will set you up for a nice life. Every company… Read more »
A word on books. I used to work for a used textbook wholesaler. Used books from the campus bookstore are still expensive. You can try to find another student on campus selling the books you need that they don’t anymore. They’ll get more from you than they would at the buyback at the bookstore, and you’ll spend less than they bookstore sells the used book for… The online used book sales was only starting to take off when I left that field (I worked as a trainer/tech support for the college store/textbook management software we sold to college stores).
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I have to second Jeff, above: If you were rated at 20% or more, Chapter 31/Vocational Rehab is a wonderful benefit. It takes a little bit to apply — this *is* the government we’re talking about here — but the results are worth it. Tuition, books, supplies, and a stipend; they *want* you to focus on your education as much as you want to get it done and get on with your life.
And definitely confirm whether or not the school offers credits for your military service. Prior to my Chapter 31 kicking in, I’d applied and been accepted to George Mason University to use my GI Bill benefits. When I finally got my transcript audit, however, I noted they were not going to give me credit for my military education or training. Out went GMU. This worked out in my favor in the end — I was able to exempt out of my internship requirement at another university because of my previous work *and* graduate a semester early.
I’d also recommend checking with the Financial Aid/Veteran Services folks to see if there are any scholarships or other assistance available via the university itself. My current university (for example) offers at least three scholarship programs specifically for veterans, one specifically for disabled vets, above and beyond Ch 31 benefits.
Ladybug is on to the bookstore scam. The college bookstore buys back books at 50% of new value, slaps a yellow “USED” sticker off a roll of tape on the spine, and puts it out on the shelves for 75% of new. This can be a difference of $25 or more, especially for those Chem/Bio/Physics books that cost an arm and a leg.
Also, watch out for the “edition change” scam. Book companies will and therefore instructors may change editions between years. Sometimes it’s a valid change, with updates to the material, sometimes it’s just rearranging the material in the book. If the class is given in both fall and spring, take it in the spring, and buy a used book from the noobs who paid full boat and bought it in the fall.
One more tip:
Many of the veterans in my outpatient clinic have trouble in class or with homework assignments due to a medical problem. These problems range from PTSD to depression but also include physical issues like chronic pain from training or combat zone injuries, cognitive problems due to TBI (e.g., decreased memory, poor concentration, others), or chronic headaches. It also is possible that a pre-existing condition such as ADHD or dyslexia could affect your college performance. Some people grow out of ADHD but others do not.
If any of these difficulties cause a problem in class or with homework, go talk to the college’s disability office. The counselors there are supposed to advocate for you. The disability office should help you by recommending a reasonable accommodation. These accommodations might include letting you stand up during class to relieve back pain, record lectures because anxiety distracts you from taking good notes, or take a test in a small private room free from distractions. It is all free, too.
You may need documentation from your medical doctor or psychologist. There may be a form from the disability office for your doctor to complete. But, getting this info to the disability office should be a one-time deal at your school, not a recurring event every semester.
No guarantees the disability office at your school will be helpful, but veterans in my outpatient clinic have been pleased with how the local community and four-year school disability offices have helped them. Worth checking out.
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