Supreme Court, guns, drugs
Normally I would expect that headline to trip off three separate articles – but not this time.
…U.S. Supreme Court said on Monday that it will consider whether it should automatically be illegal for someone to have a gun simply because they are a habitual drug user — or whether they should only be disarmed if they are actively under the influence.
The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled a while back that a guy convicted of a felony for gun possession when he admitted regular drug use should have his conviction overturned since he wasn’t actively under drugs’ influence when arrested.
But now the Trump administration has urged the Supreme Court to reverse that ruling. According to the Justice Department’s appeal, habitual drug users with firearms represent “unique dangers to society,” raising the risk of “armed, hostile encounters with police officers.”CNN
Normally the 5th is thought of as one of the more conservative circuits , so ruling in the drug users’ favor seems a bit odd. Perhaps they are leaning toward filtering the drug users’ through Bruen?
Puts an interesting spin on Hunter Biden’s case, as his admitted drug use was central to his conviction. (Moot now, of course, since his father gave him an unconditional blanket pardon.)
For once I lean towards the gun control side of this one more than not – choices have consequences, and if you want to habitually ingest drugs, perhaps losing your right to have arms is just part of the choice you made. Convicted felons? I’d keep the system we have – maybe if what you did was non-violent you could petition to have gun rights restored, but in general your commission of a felony carries with it a permanent loss. I’m even OK with age limits on gun purchases… let’s face it, in honesty there are some people who should not have, or are too immature to have, guns. We’ve seen more than a few here. JMO.
Category: Supreme Court
IDK, If I take tramadol (a prescription opioid), for my lower back pain, should I give up my weapons?
Yes, send them to me so I can watch them for the government to make sure they don’t decide to start killing people by themselves.
All mine got lost in that horrific tsunami back in the Summer.
Yeah, we’re getting into some vague areas here. For every statement that I could make (pro/con), someone else can point out valid exceptions.
We could go case by case (very tedious and time consuming), while looking for that perfect Venn diagram of “drug use GOOD/BAD” vs “gun ownership GOOD/BAD”.
The real question is the marijuana prohibition.
Now that some states have legalized medical pot, should those with marijuana prescriptions be “prohibited persons”.
It’s literally millions of otherwise law abiding citizens who are denied gun rights because they smoke pot on weekends
Long term marijuana use has been linked to various mental illnesses, through a number of different studies. Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar Disorder and social anxiety disorder are shown as linked as well as increased thoughts of suicide. Before the last decade there wasn’t much research available on the use of cannabis due to it being illegal. Now there are more studies and more accurate studies on mental health effects.
If the above illnesses sound familiar they are common among those committing mass murder with a firearm.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425748/
One problem with marijuana and firearms can be summed up thusly: it ain’t what your daddy smoked 40 years ago. Weed today is a STRONGLY psychoactive substance after decades of refinement. If the time and effort that went into improving weed had gone into agriculture research, somebody would have gotten a Nobel prize. I have seen – twice – at close range marijuana psychosis, and in all honesty I would rather people using it weren’t carrying or had access to firearms.
This is true. The days of smoking an entire dime baggy to get high, are long gone.
One or two puffs of today’s GMO pot, will put you on the couch all the way through The View, and 5 re-runs of “Cop Rock”.
Todays grass is more potent than it was back in the day when growers wern’t making it stronger.
Like a hundred times more potent.
The reason that America got fat, was when they outlawed diet pills in the 70’s.
Todays beer has gotten mucho stronger with IPA’s
sporting up to 7.5 % alc.
Not your “partners” Busch Light.
There are some out there that are 9 to 9.5 percent. Some are quite delicious as well.
Used to be able to “shoot” a pounder in
one swig but those days are gone.
Far too slippery a slope here. Do we limit it to illegal drugs only (marijuana is illegal by federal law, but some states allow it by prescription, others allow recreational use)? What about alcohol? It was an illegal drug at one point in our nation’s history. How do you define habitual? How do you prove habitual? Too much opportunity for gradually narrowing the restrictions. Someday it could morph into me not being allowed to possess firearms because I take a low dose aspirin every day.
Don’t think it could happen? That’s what Canada said when they first legalized assisted suicide – now patients are actively encouraged to off themselves for even treatable conditions and they’re this close to permitting the killing of children because they’ve become a burden to their parents.
“That’s what Canada said when they first legalized assisted suicide”
I can see that continuing as long as Canucks continue to be serfs and sheeple.
And it will end as soon as some “rebel with a cause” decides to take one (or more) of the MAiD medicos/assistants/admin with him/her as they’re being put to sleep.
Canada is okay, has anyone listened to
“My French Candian Girl” 1958 By Wilf Carter/AKA Montana Slim……
The organ donation is going quite well up in Canada as many people just decide to end it all while in fits of natural emotions.
Like a Texas vulture…
Alcohol is also a drug.
We don’t call it one, because the government got away from prohibition, but it’s a drug nonetheless.
Alcohol is still illegal in a number of places around the United States. It is true that consumers don’t really see it as a drug but the medical community certainly sees it that way.
My remote viewer just showed a Windows Blue screen of Death, but before it did there were ATF raids at A.A. meetings not just pot heads and med users, a slope slipped.
Never remote view with Windows 11
No limits to the 2A.
How I see it: Folks who are incarcerated lose rights. Once they have served time and are released, they go back to full citizen, with all rights. All. If offered parole, they may be restricted, but only until their sentence ends. Then, back to full citizenship and rights.
Other way round: if they are too effing dangerous violent crooks to walk around with a sidearm, keep them in the effing prison.
Paid your penalty? Welcome back. Repeater? Stay in stir until you effing learn how to be free.
Guarantee my way reduces overall crime and recidivism. Also removes most burden from free folks
Long past use of drugs such as mary-jane should not be disqualifying. But those with current hard drug use should be barred from purchase or possession of firearms.
My wife use to run Sporting Goods at Wally-World, and we have talked about this very thing amongst ourselves. When is it considered drug use or medical use, because people will abuse drugs prescribed to them.
Plus our Daughter In Law just got a Medical Marijuana card, why I don’t have a clue. But her SUV always reminds me of a Cheech and Chong movie. But she says now I have my card, I don’t have to worry of I get pulled over.
But I asked her, what is her employers drug use policy. If you get hurt and drugs are found in your system are you fired? Does having a Medical Marijuana card, cancel out your employers no drug use policy.
This is creating a big can of worms and a lot of unanswered questions….
Mike
USAF Retired
To add to your point about prescription drugs. Is the purpose of the law to ensure compliance or to promote safe firearms ownership and use?
Cognitive impairment wise; what’s the difference between someone abusing someone else’s prescription and someone using their own prescribed medication?
Stevie Wonder could see how anyone prescribed narcotics could be classified as a drug user.
I worked for a company in Texas, but frequently traveled to a customer in Colorado. After they legalized pot there, I asked HR what would happen if, say the customer had a pot party, something similar, and I peed hot. It was “legal” there, right? HR: Still illegal under federal law and company policy. You’d be fired on the spot.
The plan after getting rid of “the box” was to get rid of drug tests as a condition of employment. This ran into some headwinds when the election went the other way and when it turned out that the hiring criminals to work for you increases your shrinkage.
You too? My wife also ran the Sporting Goods at Walmart. As an item of interest, out of all the meth heads, burglars, felons and other prohibited morons she denied for reasons, she never once received a subpoena to testify in federal, or even state, court against any of them. Seems the ATF just give a fuck about those violations.
Cool…..
My wife denied a straw purchase and was overridden by the assistant store manager, so she told him to do the sale, suddenly he decided to backed off and wanted to know why she was ruling it a straw purchase.
The story was a guy accompanied by his wife tried to buy a gun the day before and he came back denied. The next day his wife attempts to buy it, and the husband is milling around the department watching. So CINC Household denied it as straw purchase.
She had a couple instances, where she called in the 4473 information and was told to stall the sale. Then LEO’S showed up and took the customer into custody.
She had ATF Agents request records of certain sales from her bound book, or had her make written statements.
Mike
USAF Retired
Question 21F of the ATF Form 4473 still has the following verbiage.
“Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized
for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.”
Which sounds like regardless of state law, federal law says marijuana is still illegal. Therefore for gun purchases you are an unlawful user of marijuana, and would be prohibited from a firearm purchase.
Mike
USAF Retired
“Controlled Substance” includes all the prescription drugs that are commonly abused like OxyContin. So using them without a prescription or being addicted to your prescription is the same as Mary Jane in the eyes of the ATF. Taking a medication prescribed by your doctor according to his instructions is not unlawful use. It would be hard to argue that it is an addiction, even if you are technically dependent on the drug.
Where this could get spicy is that alcohol is a depressant. If you are a complete drunk or alcoholic abusing alcohol, that could get you in trouble.
How about Sildenafil?
Pretty “hard” to get violent while using it……
Eww….
I’m assuming Tadalafil would also rise to that standard. Plus, it’s just a cooler name. Take one and “Tada!”
The form 4473 was established in 1968, when marijuana had the potency of two beers. Now, it has the potency of a keg.
It was obvious from the beginning, that creating the term “medical marijuana” was only a back door to eliminating weed as a controlled substance, and many states have driven that point home.
Marinol, which duplicates all the pain and/or nausea relief benefits of THC….without the THC…has been available for decades, and does NOT stop you from owning or purchasing a firearm.
The question on the form is still, or even more legitimate now, than in 1968.
For felons, I would support a petition to restore rights in federal court after all conditions of the sentence are completed – so parole doesn’t count. Also, commission of any crime which can carry life sentence is a permanent ban, even through the life sentence does not apply
The 5th Circus, would rule that a murderer could own a gun, since they weren’t actually murdering when they were caught.