Pete Hegseth-Men and women shouldn’t serve together in combat units

| November 20, 2024

Pete Hegseth penned a book and spoke during interviews where he argued against the idea of integrating women and men in special forces and infantry units. Hegseth argued that this move has neither made these units more effective nor more lethal. He also argued that this move makes fighting more complicated. Despite Hegseth’s acknowledgement that women have effectively served in other roles in the military, roles that also experienced combat, his argument didn’t sit well with others.

From AP News:

“Who’s going to replace them? Men? And we’re having trouble recruiting men into the Army right now,” said Lory Manning, a retired Navy captain who works with the Service Women’s Action Network.

The military services have struggled for years to meet recruiting goals, facing stiff competition from companies that pay more and offer similar or better benefits. And a growing population of young people aren’t interested in joining or can’t meet the physical, academic and moral requirements.

Removing women from contention for jobs, said Manning, could force the services to lower standards to bring in more men who have not graduated high school, have criminal records or score too low on physical and mental tests.

Lawmakers are divided on Hegseth’s views.

“Where do you think I lost my legs, in a bar fight? I’m pretty sure I was in combat when that happened,” snapped Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., in an CNN interview last Wednesday after Trump’s selection was announced.

Duckworth, who flew combat missions in Iraq and lost both legs when her helicopter was hit, added, “It just shows how out of touch he is with the nature of modern warfare if he thinks that we can keep women behind that sort of imaginary line.”

Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-S.C., praised Hegseth and said the reality is that certain military jobs “just need brute strength. ” But he added, “women have served incredibly well, honorably in combat roles, and I don’t think that policy is going to change, but we’ll leave it up to him.”

Steven Cheung, a spokesman for the Trump transition, said Hegseth has dedicated his life to supporting American troops and his country, and cited his service in Iraq and Afghanistan and two Bronze Stars.

“He is an incredibly tough and smart candidate that will fight to put America first. With Pete as our secretary of defense, America’s enemies are on notice and our military will be great again,” Cheung said.

Additional Reading:

Baldor, L. C. (2024, November 19). Should women be allowed to fight on the front lines? Trump’s defense pick reignites the debate. AP News. Link.

Category: Military issues

88 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Sapper3307

Duckworth was a DEI pilot with low flight hours for a reason.
Change my mind.

SFC D

Her reading comprehension seems to be lacking as well. She completely missed the point Hegseth was making. I’m sure it was intentional, just to stir the pot.

MIRanger

I don’t know about her being a DEI pick, but because she only listens to the left’s soundbites she did not hear his whole statement. Duckworth would have still been able to lose her legs serving in an Army under Sec Def Hegseth, he is not against females serving. Even in certain combat roles, like MP, pilot, and even artillery, and of course all the combat support roles. What he is against is the front line roles where they had to lower the standards to ensure they had enough females in a unit to make it worth while, such as forcing Female Officers into the Infantry (not that they don’t do the same with males), and them awarding them with a platoon or Company when they refused to go to Ranger School…ahead of their fully qualified male peers.

Green Thumb

And nine recycles if they do….

rgr769

And for the first two getting the tab, a general officer as their lane grader, to make sure they passed their patrols as leaders.

USMC Steve

Look up what happened when she became born again stumpy. She was ordered to fly that mission, because she was basically fucking off most of the time and not pulling her considerable weight.

Sailorcurt

“And we’re having trouble recruiting men into the Army right now,”

Gee, I wonder why that would be?

Leftists are seemingly incapable of connecting cause and effect. Or they just don’t want to.

Navy ships should also be segregated by sex. I admit I only did one cruise with an integrated crew before I retired, but that was enough to convince me that it was a bad idea.

Introduces a whole new raft of problems into an already stressful, dangerous and difficult environment with zero benefits to anything other than satisfying a political agenda.

HT3

In my day, females we only on destroyer/submarine tenders, so I have no frame of reference. However, my son is on active duty, and his rate (IT) has more females than say anything in Engineering. He even has a female Chief, but he’s grown up in a different world. He’s also kind of oblivious to women because he’s big into tech & gaming.
In the 80’s, we had 1 female out of 40 in my A-School. Her presence distracted half of my class as they were falling all over each other to try and impress/get her attention. A friend served on the L.Y. Spear (AS-36), and some (not all) of the female techs took advantage of guys in the shops. He said it was sad to watch guys fawn all over some chick that has what you would expect a female welder/electrician/machinist to look like.

SgtM

My ex went on float, my ex came back. She filed for divorce because she found her soulmate onboard. That float was probably the best thing that happened. Had a buddy SgtL. He went to Desert Storm, he was married. Got caught with a WM in a comm trailer and became CplL. Biology takes over and messes young minds up.

timactual

Infantry duty is stressful enough without adding the drama of “young love” to a situation where tensions are already high and everyone is armed.

Green Thumb

/\

This!!!

A Proud Infidel®™

Just how quickly will some of these “Infantrywomen” get pregnant after being left alone too long in a foxhole with Male compatriots?

Just asking for a friend.

Anonymous

Happens in ADA w/o the foxhole often.

Green Thumb

They just get knocked up beforehand to avoid deployment.

A Proud Infidel®™

I know, I’ve seen that as well.

RCAF-CHAIRBORNE

Not just the males they have to worry about. Just look at how many female inmates have been knocked up by ‘ chick with dicks ‘.
Now they have to worry about both young, horny red blooded men and men cos playing as grotesque parodies of women. A dong is a dong in that situation.
According to da Hub…… ‘ shemale on female ‘ was in the top 25 searches.

Anonymous

Hey, people beatin’ each other in the motorpool over f*ckin’ around– gimme more of that! /sarc

Last edited 2 months ago by Anonymous
SgtM

Our Gunny got caught in the storage room for the truck gear with a Cpl WM. Poor PFC was to scared to talk and told us after Gunny PCS’d. The real fun in the motor pool was a Cpl on the inspection rack had a cute wife that was working her way through the platoon, she hit me and my room mate up (different times) at a Mike Tyson fight house party. We turned her down because we new her game. The real fun started when Cpl inspector got wind about Cpl wrecker driver. He seems to have never got wind about Cpl fuel and electrical, Cpl supply or Cpl tool room.

5JC

I’ve seen a few things but my favorite was the shrink that got knocked up by one of her “patients” while we were deployed. I say one because we never did figure out which one before I left. Once word got she was putting out during her “counseling sessions” half the damn unit came down with the PTSD. At least three.of our SSGs were knocking the bottom out once a week. Not sure how that went when she had to go home to hubby with a bunch in the oven. But she did get let off with a general discharge.

Lets face it, most of our younger male soldiers are 20 somethings full of hormones and complete sluts who will sleep with anyone, any time, any place, any where if they have the chance.

Anonymous

Ghetto teenagers, especially the earlier ones, are worse– the most hormone-addled retarded period of their lives (just add jealously, firearms and lack of impulse control, stir and serve).

rgr769

Plus, what does it do for morale and cohesion when there are several females in the unit having love affairs with some of the men in their platoon. Then the love triangles develop, as they are bound to do.

RCAF-CHAIRBORNE

You mean the type of ‘ young love ‘ that results in a pregnancy right before a deployment or change of post?

Hack Stone

Are we having trouble recruiting transgender troops? Hack has been told that they are just as patriotic and eager to serve as the evil white male Christians who have been serving for generations that are considered a toxic threat by General Milley.

Anonymous

comment image

Anonymous

Where has Lori Manning been for the last 100 years? That’s just called Tuesday.

Last edited 2 months ago by Anonymous
SFC D

I served with a lot of excellent female Soldiers in my 24 years, some as leaders, some as peers, some as subordinates. They served right beside the males, in some real shit situations, and served admirably. But enough about the Signal Corps. Hegseth is right. What works in the rest of the Army is a recipe for disaster in units that are expected to close with, engage, and destroy the enemy. I put no stock in the comments by Duckworth or any other congresscritter with no skin in the game.

5JC

Duckworth gave up a lot of skin in the game already.

I also served with plenty of women who ranged from shit bags to outstanding soldiers. I have zero issues with women serving in any role… If and only if, they meet the exact same standards as men.

Some jobs are tough even for most men to earn. If they were easy they probably wouldn’t be worth all the trouble. If they can’t do it they are a liability, just like any man who can’t do it either. Lowering the standards for everyone for women to somehow be eligible is an even worse idea as it cheapens everything.

SFC D

Yes, she did. No doubt about that. But she’s deliberately misinterpreting and misrepresenting what Hegseth said, and her service and sacrifice do not allow her that privilege. Lowering standards to accommodate women in combat arms does cheapen everything, especially the lives of servicemembers.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Agreed, honorable service involving great personal harm or sacrifice isn’t a lifetime free pass to intentionally misinterpret and lie about someone else’s words…she gave way more than I ever did and I will always respect that, but it doesn’t mean I owe her shit when she chooses to lie in the present to further a political goal.

USMC Steve

Yep, and she was not at all shy about making the most of it. She capitalized on it as much as possible, and she is still an ignorant socialist democrat piece of shit with an agenda.

timactual

With all due respect to Miz Duckworth’s service, I will give some weight to her opinion and experience when that experience includes things like sleeping “cheek to cheek” (both sets) with the opposite sex in a hole in the ground whilst pondering the possibility that every moment may be your last. Or taking a shit, possibly the first of many during the day, in full view of your ‘mates’ (pick your own definition).

Robert Szrama

Lowered standards? Remind me, do the women have the same physical standards that the men are expected to meet? The article referring to having to lower standards if women are scooted is quite rich.

Prior Service (Ret)

Well, the army had to scrap the “knee tuck” on the new ACFT because only like thirty percent of females could do the minimum so, yeah, they changed (lowered) standards to accommodate women. Turns out they can pass the plank requirement.

SFC D

Are you saying that men and women are built differently? Blasphemer! Heretic! You’re probably a conservative Republican, too! Oh, the humanity!

5JC

I think you mean the leg tuck, but good example. I never had to do it myself but my son said it was an ass kicker because most people aren’t built that way. Still he was able to do it and about 20% of the males and half the females couldn’t.

Prior Service (Ret)

Yep &@)%} leg tuck. I could only do like 10-12 of them. Nowhere near maxing. I could max the replacement plank, but you weren’t ever gonna get my wrecked shoulders and knees to max the power throw or deadlift. Sorry.

KoB

I have no issues with a qualified individual of either sex doing a job/filling a position that they are QUALIFIED to do. That means having the same level of skills/abilities that it takes to do the job. Front line combat is NOT for the average person be they male or female. The job of the military is NOT a social experiment to make everyone equal. The job is to close with, destroy the enemy, and break their sh*t. Let’s be real here. Some women are capable of doing that, but most are not. Same with men. Hollyweird has given the impression that it can be done, across the board, (think Star Trek DS9 (Jadzia), Star Ship Troopers, or Aliens) but at the end of the day nobody hollers out “Re-set, back to 1 for another take”. History is replete with examples of Female Warriors that kicked ass and took names but sorry, not sorry, the average American Female does not have the mental or physical acumen to do so. YMMV

5JC

True, but 98% of male soldiers surveyed were in favor of Starship Troopers style co-ed showers. There must be a good idea in there somewhere.

David

Thinking you will be showering with Denise Richards is a long way from the truth of showering with, say, Kathy Bates.

Deckie

Hey man, it’s a dirty job… someone’s gotta do it.

5JC

IDK, the new Matlock is actually not bad TV. It’s the first new series I’ve followed in this decade.

SFC D

Yup! Interesting plot twist in the pilot episode.

rgr769

It is a far cry from the original, which was unwatchable. Andy Griffith should have stayed in Mayberry.

Marine0331

Or Whoppie Goldberg…..

Marine0331

Sorry guys, I couldn’t resist that one…..

5JC

I nearly lost my lunch. Sorry isn’t good enough. Get down and knock out 50.

SFC D

Choke yourself…

Marine0331

LMAO. Good one!!!

rgr1480

Arrrrrr……

Eye-Bleach_Simpsons
Anonymous

Ouch.

Last edited 2 months ago by Anonymous
timactual

*sigh*
Denise Richards—um, um, um.
Johnny Rico was a fool.

Fyrfighter

I don’t knw, Diz wasn’t a bad option..

Anonymous

Some size criticisms may be made though.
comment image

Last edited 2 months ago by Anonymous
timactual

Only if you get to be the casting director. Otherwise—-

26Limabeans

Not a fan of women serving the same roles as men.
In anything.
Not a fan of men serving the same roles as women.
In anything.
That’s how I spell equality, DEI be damned.

Deckie

How do y’all think Lars handled himself around men?

Hack Stone

Dat’s a good one.

SFC D

I dunno, is he right or left handed?

Anonymous

I’d rather not.

5JC

As often as possible.

Ah, but you asked how? Vigorously and with great expertise. I am certain he shared his great knowledge and experience as usual.

Sandman

I firmly believe that a female can not physically pull an injured 200lb man in full battle gear off the battlefield under fire. But that’s just my opinion.

5JC

Actually when I was doing police things one of the test requirements was a dummy drag of a 200lb sand bag dummy as part of the PT test. There were some that couldn’t do it, but I saw plenty of 110lb women do it

What I liked about the test the most was that the test was exactly the same for men and women. While that made my life easier the test was more geared towards being able to do certain tasks like climb through a window, scale a wall, push a vehicle off the road etc.

At the academy we started with eight women and 62 men. Four females flunked out on the PT test along with three males. A pass rate of 50% vs 95%. It was a good confidence builder for everyone that they could do everything the males could do so far as the minimum standards.

timactual

“I’m pretty sure I was in combat when that happened,” snapped Sen. Tammy Duckworth,”

And I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Infantry combat. I’m pretty sure women in uniform were killed in London in WWII, and probably elsewhere; so what? Women getting killed is not the point; their ability to successfully do the job of Infantry, Armor, or Artillery without adversely affecting unit cohesion or the success of the mission is the point. If I remember correctly, Hegseth has stated he has no problem with women serving as pilots or some other jobs.

rgr769

Proponents of this women in combat bunk like to cite the women killed in Vietnam. Well, there were seven of them in over ten years of war. Only one was killed by enemy fire. The building she was in was hit by a 122mm rocket. The other six died of disease and vehicle accidents. They were all nurses.

5JC

That was long ago. In Iraq and Afghanistan there were 166 killed and over 1000 wounded. While this is a small fraction of the number of the men killed and wounded it was fair to say in Iraq that anyone who left the FOB by ground or air was a target, especially combat support units. The terrorists would much rather attack combat support units than a combat unit due to the lack of strong response or counter attack. Most commanders didn’t have the resources to allocate combat units to protect smaller convoys and teams.

Some were killed on the FOB by IDF but that was more of a rarity.

5JC

The number of people that served in Vietnam was likely similar to the number that served in post-9/11 conflicts. However the casualties were much lower and therefore women made up a much higher percentage of those killed than in Vietnam. Also women were working many more jobs that exposed them to higher risk.

Unfortunately the mind set of combat support units, was and remains terrible. I was at the 11th ADA Brigade just prior to their deployment to Iraq. They belabored under the mistaken assumption that some other unit was going to provide force protection for them. Therefore there was no focus on doing it themselves. This isn’t a female thing this is a CS thing.

Last edited 2 months ago by 5JC
Anonymous

“If I ever need my rifle sh*t’s too f*cked up anyway,” folk said. Then the 507th Maint Co happened.

5JC

Exactly. Sounds like a direct quote.

I knew the Commander, First Sergeant and Maintenance warrant of the 507th quite well. The commander was a neighbor, the First Sergeant had worked for me in a previous assignment and he was actually a great soldier so far as his MOS went. However none of them believed they would ever see action. I didn’t know any of the women who became casualties but those were difficult times for everyone.

Anonymous

Yes, indeed. Piestawa, Lynch and a few others from 5-52 came up to our Bde S3 shop to get read-ahead material for the show. The friendly A/C shootdowns, Julie Andrews’ evil twin going UA and An Nasiriyah I’m sure they didn’t expect. Always bring your own cleaning kit.

timactual

Dying in a war isn’t much of an accomplishment, anyway. It certainly is not a resume enhancer.

“They were all nurses.”

I love nurses. I only spent a little time in a surgical ward, but those nurses had to do it every day. A different kind of toughness and courage, perhaps, but every bit as good and admirable as traditional “soldierly” courage.
Civilian nurses, too. Things like the PICU (Pediatric Intensive Care). “You’re a better man than I am, Nurse Din”.

Anonymous

Make the other poor dumb bastard die for their country, that’s better.

rgr769

I like nurses too. I married an Army Nurse I dated at Ft. Devens.

SFC D

I only had 1 female Soldier that was physically unable to do her job, and that was due to her stature (5’2″), not her gender. A male that size would’ve had the same issue.

rgr769

As someone who commanded infantry platoons, infantry rifle companies, and special forces ODAs, I can say with some authority that women don’t belong in these units, period. Their presence will destroy unit cohesion and esprit de corps, despite the fact of their physical limitations compromising unit duties.

USMC Steve

On that sir, we agree.

timactual

Amen.

USMC Steve

Don’t bet on it. That same short dude would have had more muscle mass and a stronger skeleton to do stuff with, than the typical female of that size.

SFC D

He’s still short. Muscle mass cannot replace reach.

rgr769

It can when the task is carrying an M-2 .50 cal and hoisting it up on an APC to mount it onto the cupola. Or packing a 105 or 155 round to load an artillery piece. Or picking up your 120 pound ruck after strapping on 35 lbs of body armor and another 25 lbs of battle rattle, weapon and ammo.

SFC D

It can’t when the task is to install the antenna hub of a TRC-170 antenna. Sure, muscle mass will make it easier to lift. But at 5’ 2”, it’s still out of your reach.

timactual

Ah, memories.
Amen, again.

And it ain’t just in a combat zone. Range 42, Grafenwoehr. How do you suppose all those 105mm tank rounds got from their cases in the very large stake-bed trucks to the tanks? It wasn’t the tank crews. Certainly ruined my manicure. An infantry unit in garrison is just a pool of day laborers for every rear-echelon or support function. Who needs a trash/garbage pickup service when there is an infantry unit on post? As a taxpayer, I applaud such economy.

A Proud Infidel®™

Has Tammy Duckworth ever strayed from the D-rat party agenda even one iota since she got elected?

Just asking for a friend.

rgr769

From everything I have read, she always votes however Cucky Schemer tells her to vote. She is hooked into the D-rat hive mind just like a minion of the Borg. One thing about D-rats, they very rarely stray from the Party Line.

BSmitty56

No she has not. I tried to phone her office (her mail box was full) when she voted for college loan bailouts, which killed recruiters’ efforts (a neighbor is a recruiter- he said the guys he had signed up came back and declined upon hearing they could get a $10,000 loan, go to junior college, party, and Uncle would pay off the loan- screw the army they said). She basically said vets who joined to pay for college were chumps.

A Proud Infidel®™

I thought as much, I respect her Military Service and that’s it, just like with John McCain.

USMC Steve

I have been in numerous situations where women held back the unit because they are not tough enough and strong enough. A pound weighs a pound, there are no 10 ounce girly pounds. A mile is a mile long, there are no 1000 yard girly miles. When we used to do forced marches, rarely did the WM’s keep up and finish with all their gear on and weapons in their hands like the male Marines. You will also notice you hear nothing at all about the female grunts that were so highly touted when that social experiment commenced? Where are they now, because if that worked out, the Crotch would still be trumpeting about it.

Anonymous

Hey, I’m an Air Defender– everything is power-assisted because it’s too heavy for everyone and anti-radiation missiles can’t tell men/women apart and don’t care anyway! Yee-hah!
comment image

Last edited 2 months ago by Anonymous
Quartermaster

Women should not serve in combat period.