The public has respect for military veterans, but slightly reluctant to recommend enlistment
A survey showed that most Americans have a positive view of veterans, describing them as disciplined, loyal, and responsible. However, there is a reluctance when it comes to recommending that people serve. However, this reluctance was not as strong when it came to recommending that people join the military via a commissioning program.
From The Military Times:
“It is one thing to hold military members in high esteem in the abstract, but it is something altogether different to recommend military service as a career path,” the researchers wrote. “Having an all volunteer force means that serving is an occupational choice, one that fewer and fewer Americans appear to be willing to make.”
The 2022 survey of more than 2,400 people found that roughly 54 percent said they would discourage someone they know from enlisting in the military, although more than 61 percent said they would encourage those same individuals if they wanted to attend a service academy or enter a Reserve Officers’ Training Corps program.
Researchers said they did not collect clear data on the reasons for the split, but said that across all questions, about one-quarter of individuals surveyed would not recommend signing up for any military service.
That comes despite findings that “perceptions of veterans by the public are overwhelmingly positive,” according to the report. Roughly 67% of respondents stated that veterans are more hardworking and more reliable than the rest of society. More than half described veterans as self-disciplined, responsible, practical and self-reliant.
The Military Times has additional information here.
Category: Society, Veterans in the news
I am one of those saying do not serve. The benefits are just not there anymore. Retirement has been neutered. Command has abandoned our core principals to engage in political theater. Refusing an unlawful order has dismissed too many good military members. The list goes on.
I saw a video this morning of a supposed Marine GySgt who posted a fairly inappropriate TikTok in uniform. Check out NICKY MGTV if you’re interested, he’s almost like a currently serving Millennial version of Jamesons Travels. I don’t agree with what she did, but the comments section made me do a little googling.
Come to find out, she was one of those who was separated for refusing the jab. She’d done her time, been a DI and some commenters claiming to know her stated that she was a good Marine (she was an Air Traffic Controller). Knowing that, I say, “you go, Girl”. The uniform is something I took pride in while serving, but when the service that uniform represents gives you the shaft, it’s game on.
Jeez, even the public is saying… stop me if you heard this in the service:
No drinking, no smoking, payed below the poverty line, used as research subjects for those (in academia) that think all Veterans commit sexual assault, have the PTSD, etc., no standards, etc.
But they want you to fight?
Anyone but them or their kids, in their view.
P.S. Appropriate use of CCR’s “Fortunate Son” for once:
That might be simply related to the fact that Officers have a degree and a degree has been part of the social impetus for decades now. In short the same old college degree fixation that you can’t be successful without a college sheepskin,
You may have a good point. To the unknowing, officers are the sophisticated and educated counterbalance to the gruff and uneducated enlisted man (or woman, no in-between). Never mind the fact that today’s enlisted SMs often match or surpass the formal education of their officers. The military itself feeds into the “College is King” mentality, though, and is biased towards the officer corps. There have been attempts to make the Non-Commissioned Officer Education System (NCOES) a degree producing program, culminating in a Bachelor’s upon completion of the Sergeants Major Academy: ncoes degree army – Search (bing.com). Those search results seem to indicate that, while credit is given, there are still some core classes to complete. Nevertheless, officers attend Intermediate Level Education and receive graduate-level degrees before they make LTC.
College degrees are pieces of paper. My GED, GM School diplomas, BSCJ, and all of my NCOES certificates don’t represent my level of knowledge or ability to perform a given task.
I’d look at each Occifer individually.
I had one (Warrant? El-Tee?) that had a (two year?) degree in……Funeral Science. Obviously NOT a “social” science, nor a military push. But it WAS a degree, and it was enough to get him a promotion.
I still chuckle whenever I think of him and his degree.
In 2018, The Air Force reported that 8.9% of their enlisted soldiers had a bachelor’s degree and 1.9% had a graduate degree. As opposed to 98% of officers having a bachelor’s degree and 40% having a graduate degree. The Air Force is reported to be the most educated of the branches. 24% enlisted have an associate’s degree, mostly awarded through the community college of the Air Force.
I do wish the other services had gone the community college route. A technical degree is actually quite useful especially when combined with work experience that is directly related. Getting an LPN or an AS in auto mechanics makes getting a decent paying job easy for the 85% that are not going to make a career out of it the military.
The Army Career Tracker shows how you rate against your peers and those at the next rank in a handy pie chart. When I got my bachelor’s, I was a little above average, and I was planning to earn a master’s had I stayed in. My point is that, while there’s a misconception that enlisted ranks are uneducated, we’re in fact merely undereducated compared to our officers. The Army requires a 4-year degree for officers (the ARNG accepts 90 credits for commissioning, with the caveat that a bachelor’s must be earned with a year or two). At junior levels (O-1 through O-3 and E-3 through E-6), there’s probably a lesser gap than at senior levels (E-7 through E-9 and O-5 on up).
I’ve read many bios of senior NCOs, and am surprised by how many CSMs are “working towards an associate’s…” But every Infantry unit has five Company Grade officers: CO, XO, and three PLs. Most companies have at least that number of enlisted and NCOs with 4-year degrees.
The Google results I linked to above show that the Army is trying to emulate the Air Force. There’s also Credentialing Opportunities Online (COOL), which translates Army courses into civilian credentials.
Officer rank = white collar: more pay, more respect, less work, more upward potential
Enlisted rank = blue collar: less pay, little respect, hard work, little room for promotion
We all know the above isn’t true, but society at large believes it to be. Rack up student debt, get your degree in gender studies, and you’re set for life. Or just commission, and you’ll be Admiral Levine in no time. If you dare to pursue a career as an automotive mechanic, it doesn’t matter if you’re making $35/hour with absolutely no student debt, you’re a failure. If you enlist, you just admitted to being a failure with no future ahead of you.
He said officers do less work. That made my belly rumble. Having done both I can tell you this is not a true thing. I know there is a perception that that is true, but not all perceptions are a correct one.
Officers do “different” work, not necessarily less.
…or more fun:
Agreed. I’ve invariably been last out the door at every job since commissioning. Definitely “Different” and definitely more of it…
Exactly why I stated that we all know it isn’t true. As an NCO it was fun to say “I work for a living” when addressed as Sir, but having been on staff, I know that those officers are worked limitlessly. Our AS3s in BDE S3 would be in before PT, and often stay until 2100 or later.
Been there done that. My first S3 job kept me, my CW2 boss and a real sharp 1LT in early and out late constantly. And that was 1998, relative peacetime and outside of Brightstar, no deployments.
It is simpler than that, particularly today. Officers are in all reality political appointees, and this regime is particularly bent on having as many of them as possible being clones to their liberal hivemind.
I’ve known people with masters degrees that could not pass the ASVAB. They were actually applying to become officers and go to OCS.
We had a young man with a Master’s in Agricultural Engineering from the local HBCU who couldn’t understand why he wasn’t qualified for OCS. His highest score was a 40. We also had a perpetual problem Applicant, who’d served in the Guard and had a lot of baggage. She had her master’s, and as Prior Service just needed a current ASVAB for some reason, the score didn’t matter. She ended up scoring a two. She had so many issues, though, including an ongoing divorce with a then-serving MAJ, and never got in thankfully.
That’s not me!!! Not ME!!
AOC also has a degree.
Depends on the context.
Not corrupt/worthless when they do it.
AOC is also like a few officers I served with. Like her, they had degrees but lacked common sense and were complete morons.
Armed forces members are too often thrown under the bus after doing their best in impossible situations other people have created … then too often they have to fight tooth and nail for benefits they’ve earned
I’m not even getting into civilian/media treatment…just the services themselves too often won’t do right by those who serve
I don’t think this is about “woke-ism” or any of the social engineering that is going on in the military as much as it is the same kind of “post-war doldrums” that we had in the 1970’s following the Vietnam war.
As a middle class kid from the suburbs, my graduating class had around 500 students. Of those 500, to my knowledge maybe 5 of us enlisted in the military. One or two more may have become officers. But definitely no more than 2% went into the military.
It’s not necessarily disdain for the military it’s just that at that time (late 70’s) the military was seen as a career dead-end, as something that was suitable for those who came from a more down-scale economic background, etc.
When I told neighbors I was enlisting in the Army, instead of saying “congratulations” they would frown and say “Why? Couldn’t you get into college?” That was the prevailing attitude of the middle class back then.
And that wasn’t an aberration, BTW. Prior to WWII, serving in the Armed Forces was not generally seen as a good option for a middle class kid except during wartime (specifically the Civil War and WW1.)
For most of the rest of US history the military (and particularly the Army) was seen as the “last option” for those who had no other choices. There’s a reason that immigrants (particularly Irish) often enlisted in the military – they had no other options and the military offered a paycheck.
So I think the pendulum is swinging back from the (frankly mindless) “TYFYS” attitudes that started during the first Gulf War in 1991 and increased exponentially following the 9/11 attacks, back to a more normal “You’re going into the military? Why would you do that when you have better options?” attitude that has existed for most of American history.
How Stripes got made (and assistance approved) at the time. Anything humorous helped turn things around.
That’s pretty good for a bunch of cynical, foul mouthed, maladjusted alcoholics.
“Something’s wrong with us, seriously wrong with us… we’re soldiers. But we’re American soldiers! We’ve been kickin’ ass for 200 years– we’re ten and one!” –Bill Murray in Stripes
Only poor kids enlist, we didn’t have choice in 80s. No college loans.
Horseshit.
For one thing, you can work your way through school. But I imagine “work” is indeed a four-letter word to you.
Still think the most critical – and unasked stat – is how many VETS would or would not recommend military service.
Interesting point about more recommendations for commissioning. I won’t deny society seems to value officers, but if I were to do it all over again, I would think long and hard about whether I would get out and go ROTC or not. Many days, the commissioned life totally sucks. My enlisted days were far more fun.
*cough*
Nope.
I will call your disrespect and raise it 50.
Aretha Franklin was unavailable for comment.
You’ll string bet on disrespect? Damn, that’s an utter lack of class. 🤣
You know me so well 😉
As a vet of 36 years, I too have told one of my sons (old enough to ignore me) to wait until there is a change of admin, and hopefully the awarding of a BS (degree, not bullshit)!