So who stops mass shootings?
Surprisingly to some: You do.
You have probably seen the trope…”so where’s the good guy with a gun?” when a mass event takes place. Buckeye Firearms forum passes this along:
The term “mass-murder” was used by criminologists and statisticians to describe a specific type of violence. There, a murderer killed four or more people in a public place, excluding the death of the murderer. Also, the mass-murder was not part of a larger crime like a robbery or gang-on-gang gunfight.
Explains why much of Chicago isn’t included…
We now recognize two broad classes of mass-murderers. Some are nihilists who hate the world. Others are narcissists who murder for fame. The frequency of murderous crazy people has increased slowly, if at all. We are seeing more narcissists who witness the 24-7 media-culture and ache to be recognized.
Many here have noted the latter – one wonders how a press moratorium on naming and analyzing the shooter ad nauseum in headlines actually contributes, huh…
The FBI reported that there were 302 mass murders from 2014 to 2022. The FBI only recognized 14 cases where a citizen who was not an on-duty law enforcement officer or a security guard stopped the attack. Fortunately for us, economist Dr. John Lott decided to dig a little deeper. The truth that Dr. Lott uncovered should profoundly change the discussion about public violence.
Lott found examples of attempted mass-murders that the FBI either missed or ignored. According to his research, ordinary citizens stopped mass-murder 157 times, or 35.7% of the time.
Huge difference.
First, Lott found that mass-murderers attacked “gun-free zones” about 98% of the time. No wonder honest citizens didn’t stop these murderers. Law abiding gun owners were disarmed by a plastic sign that the murderers walked right past.
Second, armed citizens usually stop mass-murderers when the attack occurs in places where ordinary citizens are allowed to be armed. There, “the percentage of active shootings that were stopped is 51%.” In 2021 that figure rose to 58%, and to a remarkable 63.5% in 2022.
The mass-murderer gets to choose the time, the place, and the means of his attack. Despite those massive advantages, we stop him almost two-thirds of the time when we’re allowed to defend ourselves.
Coupla REAL IMPORTANT numbers. 98%… wow. That is ‘way past statistically significant. 63% and rising? Encouraging. Not at 100% where it should be, but encouraging. Might talk to some of these places you know which ban guns and pass that 98% number along. Why make your shop/business MORE attractive to a (by definition) psycho shooter?
Now, I certainly would not publicly advocate you disobey the law and carry where you oughtn’t… Ed would cut off my pay if I did, right?
But the next time you go to the mall, or somewhere where there is no compelling need for the crowds to be disarmed… well, me, I weigh the consequences and try not to patronize the sort of places who don’t trust me.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists, Guns, Politics
True
What part of Myrtle Beach are you going to?
I’m not a big fan of bringing my firearm down to the sand. Getting sea water in it tends to foul the action (automatics), and it can get too hot to handle from sitting in the sun. Need to find a better holster for wear with the swim trunks!
That’s where the Winchester SXP Marine Defender or phosphate coated Benelli M4 come in. Might be a bit harder to conceal but wear a wetsuit and the ladies will be very impressed with the package.
Sillybuggers games with numbers.
If some perp kills four or more, “mass murder!”, then gets shot by Joe Sixpack, then the mass murder wasn’t stopped. Although there were not more dead, Joe “failed”.
If Joe spots the perp setting up, disarms and detains him and no-one dies, well there wasn’t a mass murder to stop. No credit there. Again the not dead don’t count.
You get the picture.
Same crap as when they do not count “defensive use” if there isn’t a dead perp. When the perp quits with no blood or noise, it never happened.
What is this “pay” you speak of, and where do I find some? Laws that violate my rights get the respect they deserve.
I am alive today because of a neighbor with a gun in a mugging in my apartment.
I showed a gun and stopped another mugging a few years later.
Self defense uses of a firearm saves at least 100K per month. without a shot being fired.
All the shouting down of us law abiding gun owners will not quiet the fact that more and more people are choosing to protect themselves with a firearm.
People need to train with firearms and always be cognizant of the rationale and the liabilities of choosing to carry one.
Also, get US Law shield, the best firearm insurance in America. They only have actual gun attorney’s working for them and have not lost a case they handled.
The best 20 bucks you’ll spend this month.
I second the motion on US Law Shield.
Got US Law shield after I moved to Florida in 2007
Since the link didn’t provide a link to the original research, here it is:
https://crimeresearch.org/2023/08/massive-errors-in-fbis-active-shooting-reports-from-2014-2022-regarding-cases-where-civilians-stop-attacks-instead-of-4-6-the-correct-number-is-at-least-35-7-in-2022-it-is-at-least-41-3/
Nice stats. Saving for next time I get in the defensive gun use debate on Fb.
I have a rather unique perspective on this. I have been involved in two mass shootings over the years. Both were during my military service. The first time I was unarmed due to the fact that Policy prohibited me from carrying while on duty in a government vehicle. That was also the last day I followed that policy. An honest analysis later I can admit that had I been armed and intervened I likely would have died and not stopped the shooter. A civilian who was also in the area did just that and was killed by the armed (and armored) attacker after he shot him several times in what turned out to be an armored vest. Eventually the police shot and killed the attacker after a lengthy chase. The second time was while deployed and while I arrived too late to stop the shooting (the attacker ran out of ammo and didn’t reload) I did arrest the shooter, take him into custody and testify at his court martial. I wasn’t an MP, commissioned officers have the power and authority to make arrests. He was given life without parole and sits in Leavenworth to this day. In neither case would I, nor likely anyone else, have been able to stop the initial attack as both cases were a little unusual in that the attacker had specific targets in mind and killed them first. One was laying in ambush and the other surprised his targets. The attackers also made no indication of what they were planning. Until someone does something it is really hard to know what they are thinking.It will forever be the case that if the attacker is willing to die, then he will very likely be able to kill his intended target(s). No one can stop this from happening. I would classify both of them as mentally ill. One is a narcissist and the other likely had OCPD and was in a failing domestic relationship. However neither had sought nor been given treatment for such illnesses. We don’t do anywhere near enough to identify, analyze and treat mental… Read more »
Glad we weren’t ever in the same unit! I prefer my shooters to be Iraqis…
Carry concealed…every.where.you.go! Better to be judged by 12 than toted by 6.
Prepared
Lies…damned lies…statistics
Stop it with the hott gurlz with gunz, please.
I am getting tired of my wife asking with suspicion in her voice “what are you reading?”
Heh, heh, heh.
I think that there is a disclaimer in the TAH fine print somewhere that everything on this site is NSFW.
(Not Safe For Wives)
Tell her it’s a tranny website and you were thinking about getting the plumbing reworked. She might be onboard.
A scared person with a weapon who shoots better than the perpetratin’ maniac despite their fear.
I am sure I have mentioned it before, but The Cleveland Plain Dealer used to run a weekly(?) article listing all the crimes prevented by armed “civilians”. It was never a short article.
That’s how the anti-gunners roll. It’s only counted if 4 or more people are killed, so if the good guy with a gun takes out the bad guy after only 3 are killed, it wasn’t a mass murder, hence the incident doesn’t count as a good guy with a gun stopping a mass murder.
The thing is, when it’s a non-LEO good guy that stops the incident, they tend to be on scene from the moment the incident begins, making them much more timely in stopping the attack…hopefully after the first shots ring out.
It’s much more likely for a non-LEO good guy to stop the incident before 4 people are killed than it is for a LEO to get the call, respond, find the shooter and take him out before 4 people are killed.
It’s basically a catch-22. If a good guy with a gun stops the shooting in a timely manner, it wasn’t a mass murder, so they can ignore those incidents and claim that it rarely happens.
They do the same thing with all the “statistics” they use, such as including “teenagers” up to 19 years and 364 days old in their “children” statistics so they can lump gang bangers shooting each other in with the handful of actual kids killed by accident in their “child gun death” statistics.
Lying and obfuscation: it’s what they do.
And if two gang-bangers off each other at 2am on a sunday morning, within 2 blocks of a closed elementary school, it’s now a “school shooting”.
Isn’t that during approved “cappin’ hours” in Chicago?
I don’t need a reason, and facts are just a cherry:
…shall not be infringed.
I have 400M reasons of F.U. for anyone that would dare to disarm my American Brothers and Sisters.
Tread not.
Last year in Greenwood Indiana a mass shooting was stopped by an armed civilian. Bad guy came out of a restroom with a rifle, killed three and was shot and killed by an armed civilian. IF I remember right, the whole thing went down in like 15 seconds. The mall it happened in was a “gun free zone.”
It’s better to be prepared and have some sort of fighting chance, or at least die knowing that you did your best, than to be a defenseless victim. There are some places that post “no firearms”. I avoid them for the most part, but if I go into someplace like the American Freight, I bought an appliance from a couple of weeks ago and notice the sign, well, I carry concealed for a reason. A lot of Walmarts have posted signs that they don’t want visibly armed people in the store. While the 2A advocate in me doesn’t care for this, I think it’s the best of both worlds. Most state ensure that CCW holders pass some basic knowledge and marksmanship training. My state currently has constitutional carry, but only for military veterans, who assumedly have some level of firearms training.
My employer allows customers to carry open or concealed, only requiring long guns to be locked up as well as handguns that are unholstered and brought in for the range or repair. Employees don’t have the option of carrying despite us having a range and selling firearms, and when I attended the RSO course a while back, the instructor was shocked to hear that, as this event happened a little south a couple of years ago: Surveillance video and details released in fatal Metairie gun store shooting (katc.com)
I have forgotten my backup in my pocket a few times. It’s concealed so no one knows the difference. I also have a strong tendency to forget that my spare magazine is in my pocket. The nice thing is that I’m generally upstairs in the locked vault, surrounded by dozens of guns that happen to take those same magazines, so there’s that at least. We’re also in a smaller town, right off the interstate and with a couple minute response time (tops) from the city and state police as well as a bunch of bored deputies.
I’ve got an idea. Let’s start filing lawsuits against businesses, etc where people get massacred in gun free zones. It is readily apparent they did not provide the security needed and denied people their constitutional right of self defense. Hit the perps who establish these free fire zones in the pocket books enough and these gun free zones will disappear.
I’m no lawyer, but I think it would be an uphill battle trying to file a suit against a private business. I believe the states I’ve lived in only permit trespassing charges to be filed against someone on private property who refuses to leave the premises. So, carry, carry, carry. If mall security or the Asset Protection guy sees your gun printing, you’re doing it wrong, but should they ask you to leave or to place the gun in your vehicle, you’ve got every right to shop elsewhere.
Lawsuits would be a good reactive measure, but I prefer being proactive. Today’s world is full of Yelp, Facebook, and other reviews that can get a bunch of views. Heck, I’m somehow in the top 10% of a bunch of review categories on Google, with well over 100k photo views. So, carry, and if asked to leave, make it known to the internet. If there’s signage, leave an objective review that hopefully won’t get the Ree Club up in arms, but mention that the store doesn’t support the 2A. Then simply go elsewhere to spend your money, knowing that you might just influence a handful of others to do the same.
The bigger the platform, the more impact you’ll have. Look at what Liberty Safes is going through now. A lot of popular YouTubers I follow started posting videos last night, with most comments being against Liberty. Me, well I’m a fan of spending less money and our store brand safes are made by Liberty. Seeing as how homeowner grade safes are basically fire-resistant theft deterrents at best, and that law enforcement has no reason to execute a warrant at my house (I go to work, the store, and drink at home), I’m getting the 50% employee discount and pissing off a lot of fellow gun owners in the process.
–To be continued…
Continuation in 5…4…3…2…1…
Back to the reviews and such. My store has some policies I don’t agree with. I manage to make it day-to-day by acknowledging that we’re not a gun store, but a retailer that sells guns. Hell, I bought a shed earlier and the guy even said he avoids places like my employer and Academy, preferring gun stores, so while we sell a lot of guns, it’s the pricing, “on stop shop” experience, and overall ambiance of the store that gets the customers in. A couple of months ago a YouTube video came out about an employee prohibited transfer due to a store policy. Hell, I think I’ve named my employer in the past anyway, so here’s the video: (1) Bass Pro Shops refuses gun sale that passed NICS – YouTube
Basically, we have an asinine policy that we don’t transfer guns to people who live in the same address as prohibited persons. So, if your wife’s a felon and gets a DENY, we don’t sell you a gun. It’s at the FFL’s discretion, and at any time we (or your local mom and pop gun shop) can shut down a sale. In the case in the video, the brother had used the same address despite moving a few years earlier and then self-prohibited. Since May, policy is that the Responsible Party (RP) for the store has the discretion to permit someone who self-prohibits to complete a new form. However, it’s made clear that just one screwup can cost the store its FFL, so most RPs just don’t permit that. Long story short, the comments are all like so many nowadays. Me? I get paid to do a job. I don’t have to agree with every policy and regularly make my position known to management, but if it’s that bad, I have the right to work elsewhere.
And… TBC Part 2, The Revenge…
All that nonsense to say this. Shop elsewhere, leave a review, do whatever you need to, and maybe keep that lawsuit idea in your back pocket. But be proactive.
My review of a place that posts “no firearms” signs would go something along the lines of this:
“The Big Box Store in [insert location] seemed like a decent place to shop. The store looked clean, and employees were friendly, but I noticed a ‘no weapons of any kind’ sign as I walked in. Being permitted to legally carry a concealed handgun, I decided to leave immediately and take my shopping to the local Piggly Wiggly down the street. Prices might be a little higher, but the customer service is much better, and they respect my right to carry as a private citizen.”
If I entered the store and were told to leave, it might get a bit more subjective:
“…Being permitted to legally carry a concealed handgun, I ignored the sign since I was only there for milk and eggs. While reaching for the milk, someone noticed that I had a bulge on my beltline and, assuming it was a gun, notified management. As I was at the checkout, a manager and two other employees approached me, rather brusquely asking if I had a gun in violation of their store policy. I answered that ‘yes’ I did, having noticed the sign only after walking across the parking lot and that, knowing I would be in the store only a few minutes, I decided not to walk back out and place my handgun in my truck, due to the high-crime area and recent reports of vehicle burglaries. At this point, the manager informed me that I needed to immediately leave the premises and that I was being trespassed. If I were to reenter the store at any point in the future, law enforcement would be notified, and charges would be filed.”
tl;dr:
Carry, or “stay strapped” as some call it. If stores act the fool, shop elsewhere and let everyone you can know why.