Army Experience Center protest
Even though I was at the protest on Saturday, one of our operatives was at the Franklin Mills Mall near Philadelphia keeping an eye on the moonbats for us. According to their announcement, 32 groups were supposed to decend on the Army Experience Center, a recruiting station in the mall. You can tell that apparently every other person had his own organization – there were 100-150 people there by my estimation from the pictures and videos I’ve found. Here’s the one video on YouTube about it so far, you can do your own counting if you want;
Our operative, MayDayOG, sends these pictures and files in his report that, even though initially the hippies had planned to infiltrate the mall in small groups and appear suddenly at the AEC, instead they assembled near the mall and were escorted by mall security to the AEC.
Hmmm, someone must’ve tipped the mall to their plot. I wonder who.
The good guys were already locked inside the AEC, apparently;
Then, after some drama, some of them voluntarily got arrested. This one of the arrestees, apparently for over acting;
Then a man steps and offers himself;
Then this woman;
You’d think some big strapping men would step up to get arrested for the team, but, nope;
MayDayOG writes about the arrests;
The arrests followed three firm but polite warnings, and the individuals arrested (ones I noted: girl in black hoodie w/ sunglasses, lady on her knees while speaking through the bullhorn) basically requested that they be taken away. Sure enough, the eventual call for donations was raised, and to their credit the protesters appeared to pony up a few dollars. Why those who planned to be arrested (and I have no doubt that is exactly what they planned) did not have sufficient funds for bail prior to attending the protest is beyond me. Or maybe they planned to prey upon those whose heart is in the right place but whose brain resides snugly up their fourth point of contact.
Some one needs to explain this sign to me, though;
Believe it or not, there are people who don’t qualify for membership in the IVAW, but they can still buy an IVAW groupie T-shirt; 
I’d like to do a FOIA on this one; 
I saw this Code Pinker in the crowd; 
I saw Bill Perry in the video before the event, but he wasn’t in the march to the mall and I don’t see him in any of the pictures inside the mall;
MayDayOG told me that there were more chiefs than indians, which is the norm these days. Everyone wants to lead, no one wants to follow. That’s why there only three folks who volunteered to be arrested. As always, there are more pictures at my Flickr Photostream.
Many thanks to MayDayOG for taking time out of his weekend to get us these exclusive pictures and the report.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Code Pink, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Usual Suspects
Attention whoring drama queens.
I’d love to see FOIA docs on all of the IVAW protesters.
There is nothing as pointless as volunteering to be arrested. I suppose they want to feel like they’re doing civil disobedience, but their arrests aren’t in protest of Jim Crow laws. Their arrests are for violating trespass laws by refusing to leave private property so they can protest.
Now that I think of it, considering the crowd they could be “sub-protesting” the entire concept of private property rights. Good for them. Now they’re just like MLK…
While I am against the AEC I think these protest are pointless. They’ve been doing this before the wars, during the wars for years, and it’s gotten them no where. Why should it work now?
The reason I am against the AEC is because those funds need to go to Soldiers in combat, not an arcade. Our “improved” tactical vest managed to fall apart all on it’s own, we still were riding around in “Up-Armored” trucks that had quarter inch steel for protection. Call me a hippie, I just want Soldiers to have the best. If the Army is making their recruiting numbers like they say they are, then why is there even a need for such an expensive place?
I was there – too bad the none of those sneaky GOE gumshoes got a picture of me. Oh well. They wouldn’t let me in and participate in the 9/11 memorial they were having. I thought it was pretty rude and disrespectful, honestly.
Anyway, I’d like to see a FIOA on all of the guys in Gathering of Eagles, especially Chris Hill. Chris told me I disrespected “[his] uniform,” which I find mildly hypocritical considering he prances around in a black beret – even more humorous because it became the standard headgear of the Army 10 years after Chris got out.
And Casey, you’re right, it is a colossal waste of money. They’re shutting it down though which will make me unemployed in the world of activism.
“Call me a hippie, I just want Soldiers to have the best.”
I’ll bet you’re one of those subversives who wants the ACU cammo replaced with multi-cam & a better rifle to boot…
“we still were riding around in “Up-Armored” trucks that had quarter inch steel for protection.”
You talking the LMTVs? Speaking of vehicle bitches & gripes, try opening an Uparmored frag five door if the vehicle is at any kind of an incline. 8 years into this goddam war & we are simply making upgrades on an uparmored vehicle cobbed together during the Somalia nation building abortion.
Jesse,
Yeah, it’s pretty funny. Everyone I know in the Army hates the black beret, but that doesn’t stop Chris Hill…
Junior AG:
You know what really cracked me up? When I read in the Stars and Stripes that they were considering new and innovative improvement to the ACU. Like button pockets… 😉
are the officers having problems figuring out how to use the velcro or is it just that the silent velcro doesn’t hold so well?
I agree with CRaissi that volunteering to be arrested is a bit silly when CD is so choreographed. Like Jesse, early in the morning, I requested to join the 9/11 commemoration inside the AEC. The AEC commander looked at the word “peace” on my t-shirt and told me, “No!” Like the hospitality extended to the GOE, could we Veterans For Peace arrange a time to have a “commemoration” for the dead and fallen in the AEC? “No!” Of course I understand the facts of life on the ground, but I sure such selectivity is flagrantly illegal.
My view is, to discourage protests, the AEC should allow tax-paying veterans to set up a modest, respectful table to present alternative views to the 13-year-olds the AEC propagandizes with their violent video games and simulators. We formally requested that of AEC Director Al Flood, and he said he would send our request in and get back to us. Of course, we didn’t hear back.
“Protest” wouldn’t be necessary if alternative views to the multi-million-tax-dollar Army Youth Entrapment Center were permitted. Since we aren’t extended the hospitality given the GOE, we’re left outside looking in. If we had the $12 million in tax dollars they have, we’d certainly open a Peace Experience Center in the mall next door. So it’s not a level playing field from our perspective as we watched all those GOE guys pressed up against glass panels grinning & mugging at us “moonbats.” Maybe we should start calling you guys “moonmoles.”
Institutions like the AEC and defending organizations like GOE have the insidious and well-financed momentum of war behind them. As one of the GOE guys told me Saturday, you may think Obama is a Marxist-Leninist Communist, but he’s fully on your side when it comes to Afghanistan.
All we want is a level playing field for a belated and serious debate just why the hell we are in Afghanistan and why we are escalating the war there? Sometimes it’s good to question those heavily encrusted assumptions.
John Grant
Veterans For Peace
“All we want is a level playing field for a belated and serious debate just why the hell we are in Afghanistan and why we are escalating the war there?”
Who do you think you’re kidding here, John? Any debate with you would be neither serious nor belated.You’ve had your say in West Chester every weekend over the last several years. And you know the answers to your questions. You fully support the protests because it gives the appearance that you’re doing something when you hold out your grubby little paws to your benefactors.
As always with the Left, it’s about making money without actually having to do anything remotely resembling work.
John Grant: The debate has happened. I know it’s hard for you to grasp, but that’s what your “representavies” are for. If you have a beef, go to your congressman/woman. If your group has a beef, do the same. If you feel really jazzed about it, make sure you are at your congresscritter’s office every day of the week. We have a representative republic. Do what the other people on 9/12 were doing and march on Washington so that all the people who debate these things can see you. You should know that by now, since I’m sure you were doing it during Vietnam.
AS and Jesse: Yeah, I know it’s a cool thing to bust on someone who is wearing the black beret, but it’s more fun to bust on those that show their true colors (red) for being part of an org that takes it’s marching orders from commies.
The Anti-War “Movement” has been going on for years, and can’t scare up 12 mil? Why not seriously raise money and open the center you want? Why can’t the anti-war movement ever gets it’s shit together long enough to accomplish something? The anti-war movement has accomplished ZERO for the Soldier. No improvements in medical treatment, deployment cycles, or their ultimate goal in ending the wars.
John Grant:
“Protest” wouldn’t be necessary if alternative views to the multi-million-tax-dollar Army Youth Entrapment Center were permitted. Since we aren’t extended the hospitality given the GOE, we’re left outside looking in. If we had the $12 million in tax dollars they have, we’d certainly open a Peace Experience Center in the mall next door. So it’s not a level playing field from our perspective as we watched all those GOE guys pressed up against glass panels grinning & mugging at us “moonbats.”
Maydayog:
Sir, with respect– why do you need $12,000,000 to “level the playing field”? If you don’t want your children involved with the AEC, don’t allow them to participate. It’s that simple.
If what you really want is to preach to the children whose parents do allow them to participate, I’d suggest you approach their parents instead. In other words, if you can’t mind your own damn business then at least approach the people directly responsible for the welfare of the children you claim to be concerned about.
Good points. But the notion that the debate over Afghanistan “has happened” is a matter of not paying attention. Yes, the struggle will not be at the AEC but in the Congress. Note that Senator Carl Levin, chair of the Armed Forces Committee, is hot-to-trot to get a real debate going; he doesn’t want more troops. As anyone like me who ever worked in the news biz knows nothing gets debated nationally unless it gets to the power pissing contest level, which it may now belatedly be arriving at. We’ll see. In the meantime I’ll be hounding my congress people as Old Trooper suggests.
One thing that needs to be done is to marshal serious questions and criticism of the so-far untouchable counter-insurgency thinking behind the Petraeus-McChrystal-Kilcullen approach now in use in Afghanistan: Protect the population, whatever that absurd concept means, while identifying, hunting down and killing those deemed “irreconcilables” — without killing too many civilians in the process. This last is our big dilemma and a fundamental reason western counter-insurgency programs never work: Can’t do like the Romans and slaughter all living things. The crux of our Afghan policy is basically an updated, hi-tech Phoenix Program, which Kilcullen has defended as “unfairly maligned (but highly effective).” Really!? Didn’t we lose that one? So it looks like a new ballgame with the goal to get President Obama to abandon your position.
Again, we’ll see.
John Grant
John Grant said; “Really!? Didn’t we lose that one? ”
Maybe you lost it, but I’ve never heard any real veterans of Vietnam admit defeat there – outside of the VFP which has a financial reason to propagate the lie.
OldTrooper: I’m not sure if that comment was directed at me, but although I may have loose affiliations with a lot of groups, I don’t take my marching orders from anyone.
Casey: I know the anti-war movement hasn’t fully accomplished its goal of ending both of the wars, however I’d say it’s difficult to judge the effectiveness of the movement because had there been no movement, we don’t know where we would have been. I’m sure it would probably have been much worse. Just my opinion.
Everyone who supports the concept of the AEC: I dont understand why people have a problem with Obama addressing the nation’s schoolchildren but you think it’s ok to have a recruiter in the ear of a 13 year old kid. In both cases, it’s the government reaching out to impressionable youths. At the event, it was blatantly obvious that I was a veteran, yet I have people who “support the troops” cursing at me, threatening me, and being generally disrespectful. Maybe someone can tell me why. Honestly, I don’t get it. The protesters don’t have a problem with the recruiters in the AEC or the troops in general – they have a problem with the AEC and the war – both of which are driven by the higher echelons of the government.
Jesse said: “…however I’d say it’s difficult to judge the effectiveness of the movement because had there been no movement, we don’t know where we would have been. I’m sure it would probably have been much worse. Just my opinion.”
In my opinion, if ya’all had just sat down and shut up we’d be talking about the war in the past tense right now.
Army Sergeant: Chris Hill’s use of the black beret is very perplexing. Real Soldiers spend a considerable amount of time thinking of ways to wear other types of headgear. For example, I volunteered to go through Drill Sergeant School so I wouldn’t have to wear the beret.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Not_Everyone_Wants_Army_Experience_Philadelphia.html
Jesse, that video makes you all look so stupid. No one is recruiting children, and everyone knows that those video games don’t simulate the whole experience of war. If I were you, I’d hide that video instead of posting it here. Do you really think the Army is trying to tell the public that war is a game? No, like every other marketing entity they’re trying to get leads to make sales to qualified clients.
In fact, I’d like to see some honesty from you people – tell the media that you’re only holding the protest to convince your donors that you’re doing something besides navel-gazing in your bunk at the unicorn farm.
Jonn – You’re right, they’re marketing a product – war. Did your recruiter market war? Or did he (or she) market service? My recruiter marketed service to this nation – and I bought it. The AEC isn’t doing that. They glorify war. They make it seem like war is cool and killing the bad guy (whoever our government deems to be the bad guy, that is) is cool. I think it’s dangerous to have a system where recruiters are given access to impressionable youths. We don’t let tobacco companies sell or market products to children that are too young to understand the danger of the product, so why let them market killing and war?
I protest that place because I don’t agree with with what the government and military is doing there at the AEC – and as a FIFTH generation combat veteran, I think I have a right to speak my mind. I have NOTHING bad to say about Soldiers as a whole – nothing. I don’t like to see them used as pawns in a war of what I consider to be corporate greed and our politicians’ inability to accomplish goals diplomatically. So to go there and and be called a coward and a traitor by people who don’t know me is fucked up.
So, Jesse, do you want to talk about impressionable youth? Lets talk about the guy in this picture with you;
Bill Perry admitted to me that his testimony at Winter Soldier in 1971 was, in his own words, “bullshit”. Perry told me that he just told that story just to get attention. Don’t you think that splashes back on you?
My big problem isn’t with IVAW, really – it’s with doofus ass clowns like John Grant, Bill Perry, Ward Reilly and Doug Zachary who influence you folks to follow their sorry path.
At one point, youngsters, wearing the black beret meant something, just like wearign the green beret did. Now, so our soldiers feel better about themselves, we got a four star to give everyone the beret. Oh, sure, now you have to ‘finish’ AIT to wear it…
Kind of like giving all the kids a trophy at the end of soccer so they all feel loved.
For the record, however, we used to wear the patrol cap as much as we could back then, too. The beret is too hot or too cold, or it’s too sunny or too rainy to be comfortable.
Jess,
“War if fightin and fightin means killin”
If you didn’t feel like fighting a war, you should have joined the park rangers.
Oh, and nothing wrong with being a coward, son. Not everyone is wired for the military. No shame in that.
The important issue, here, is not anyone’s combat prowess or bravery, which I’m glad to honor, even in a lousy war like Vietnam or the ones we have now. I was in radio intelligence and was certainly no hero — just a kid who learned something he’ll never forget about the waste & stupidity of war.
Mr Lilyea, the “best and the brightest” in Washington DC who decided to bite off what the French could not swallow are the ones who “lost” the Vietnam War. We had the capacity to turn Viet Nam “into a parking lot;” we just didn’t have the will. As I said, the Romans employed the only truly effective counter insurgency strategy in history, the slaughter of all living things. One of the Vietnamese generals told Robert MacNamara in the early 90s, “We knew you would eventually leave because you could leave. It was our country and we could not leave.” The same kind of reality applies — and has applied throughout history — to the rugged Pashtun areas straddling the 1893 British border separating Afghanistan and Pakistan. “Winning” and “losing” these days are propaganda concepts.
John Grant
Is that a volkswagen with wings I see?
IVAW is a real joke of an organization. They are impressionable — most easily influenced by VVAW, Perry, etc. As I’ve written in the past regarding IVAW … “It’s nice to know that there is an organization (IVAW) out there that will always volunteer to be on the bottum rung of the political and social ladder … it takes a tremendous amount of self loathing and a real misguiged sense of self purpose.”
Jonn – When it comes to being impressionable, there’s obviously a difference between veterans in their 20s and 13 and 14 year old kids. I wasn’t some misguided youth who any of those gentlemen took under their wing to mold into some peace crazed veteran. They had no influence on my decision to protest the war – in fact, no one did – it was a conclusion that I came to myself. And Bill in particular has never shown me any reason to not trust what he says and he’s out there every single day helping veterans in a myriad of ways.
Dutch – Yes, they’re Air Assault wings. And to respond to your previous comment, it’s not war I have a problem with – it’s THIS war. And you proved my point with the coward comment. You’re making a severely uneducated generalization that a Soldier is a coward if he or she does not agree with the current war being fought.
OK, Jesse, I have Bill Perry on video admitting he lied at Winter Soldier. I also know Bill Perry dropped the ball and caused one former IVAW member to lose his VA claim. He’s got it straightened out now, but he told me that the VA told him that his VSO rep (Bill Perry) never checked back with them so they dropped his claim. When I dislike people it’s for a reason.
So, Jess, if I may paraphrase: You don’t have a problem with killing, just killing these Iraqis at this time? Wop-wop wings, son. They are wop-wop wings. You get them by going to the dope-on-a-rope school at the “Hey, we’re airborne too…sort of” division. Being scared isn’t something that gets you a black mark in my book, Jess. I had a SSG during my last last rotation who came to me asking if he could sit this one patrol out. AT the time we’d been there for over a year, and this guy was on his second rotation, and was leading us in the “I done got blowed up” race with 7 IED hits on his 1025. He needed to take a break and was scared, and I let him out of the patrol, riding the truck myself, instead. Being scared happens to everyone. Loosing your neave happens to everyone, and some people just are not capable of dealing with the stress of combat at all. Being a coward happens. Knowing you can’t deal with it means you are not putting your brothers in danger when the shit gets hot. Second story. The Major came and told me, straight up- I don’t want to go outside the wire. I’ll stay here inside the FOB and make sure you get everything you need, but I do not want to go out there. It was his first rotation over, and he was a pretty good guy-but he was a coward. I didn’t slam him for it. I simply told him he needed to suppor the men as much as he could. Out of my team, all but three out of twelve had deployed before. We asked to go. The Major was added so we’d have a field grade in the mix. He did his job, but never went on a patrol once. The guys knew it and understood- we did not want anyone we couldn’t trust out with us. I should check and see if he picked up 0-5. Now- that has nothing to do with you thinking the war in Iraq… Read more »
Dutch – 20+ years is a long time. Thanks for your service. I’m not just saying that to be cordial or polite – I mean it. Now, to address what you said: I agree that Soldiers can’t choose what wars they fight, and I won’t play the role of shithouse lawyer and dissect UCMJ saying when a Soldier can and can’t refuse deployment orders. If I had been given orders to go to Iraq, I would have gone. I volunteered instead. Then I got out with an honorable discharge and spoke out against the war. I spent a little less than 9 years in: 4 Active – about 3.5 Reserve – 1 in Iraq. 13F30X when I got out, although I didn’t really deploy as a FO – I was on a MiTT. You may disagree with me, but I think I did my duty. I know being scared happens to everyone. If someone told me they weren’t scared the first time they get shot at or mortared, I’d say the person was lying. Granted you get accustomed to it after a while, but there’s a lot more things I’d rather be doing that getting mortared. Speaking out in opposition to a war doesn’t mean one is a coward – look up Smedley Butler and David Hackworth. It’s really hard for me to know what it’s like to “go outside the wire.” See, I lived in the city on an Iraqi base, so I’m more familiar with a term like “going inside the wire.” Do 1 vehicle, 2 pax moves or dismounted patrols with one American and 12 IA count as “going outside the wire” if we leave from an IA base? If so, maybe I can relate. I’m sure Jonn has a FOIA en route on me (hopefully he gets the right Jesse Hamilton – there’s more than one according to AKO) but I’ll spill the beans a little early: BSM, ARCOM (w/ V + OLC), AAM, GCM, ARCAM, NDSM, ICM, GWOTSM, AFRM. If you’re curious why I’m in a suit – I had the rally and then had… Read more »
Jesse, you’ve behaved yourself – you haven’t given me a reason to check on you.
Why does everyone think I’ve got the time to do a FOIA on their military record? To get me interested in your military career, you have to say or do something that sets off bells.
Jon deWald tried to tell me that his retirement pay statement said he was an E-6, Adam Kokesh said he was a sergeant, Geoff Millard wore a CIB and 3 MSMs.
I’ve had people email me their DD214s out of the blue because they thought I might be checking on them. That’s fine, they’re safe with me, but it’s really not necessary.
I can think of just two people who I’d like to check on at this point, neither of them post here, but they’re both lurkers.
My last rotation as an advisor to the Iraqi Army. They hadn’t made up that MiTT shit yet. And, Yeah. That counts in my book.
We had some dudes who followed on us who thought they were there to simply teach the Iraqi Army and never leave the wire. Big suprise to them, as we were with every mission to Iraqis did (once they started doing missions). before that, it was just us.
We lived on the Iraqi base, Jess. We’d cruise over to Taji and get cheesburgers from time to time. My time was spent on the roads and streets of shithole Iraq and it only deepend my conviction that we should be there, helping even more.
Everyone has their story, Jess. I don’t fault anyone for their beliefs. Of course…I think you are wrong.
Since you where one a Mitt these links should be interesting.
http://www.armystrongstories.com/blogger/warren-andrews/sand-castles/
http://www.armystrongstories.com/blogger/nathan-moore/
Jonn: I said that because half the time IVAW is mentioned, the person posting is saying “I’d love to see a FOIA on him/her!” or “Expose them, Jonn.” And your response to my first post was something like “starting tomorrow I’m gonna know a lot about you” or something. By the way, that’s insane how people would send you their DD214s. It makes no sense, and wouldn’t it mirror the FOIA paperwork?
Dutch: It counts in my book, too. My team and I knew what we were getting ourselves into because I had friends that were over there doing the same job prior to us. Everyone’s experience is different, and I probably saw a lot of similar things that you did, but I came back with the opposite view.
The one in the yellow shirt getting arrested is Richard Marini from Staten Island.