Not enough Lithium to meet targets – Mining CEO

| September 8, 2022

 

Keith Phillips, CEO of Piedmont Lithium, as an interesting view: Essentially, will we have enough lithium to meet our transportation needs? Sure. Eventually. Will we have it by the time all these ambitious goals like California’s “no-internal-combustion engines (ICE) by 2035” ? Uh, no.

“Yes, we’ll [eventually] have enough, but not by that time,” Keith Phillips, CEO of Piedmont Lithium (PLL), said in an interview with Yahoo Finance Live (video above). “There’s going to be a real crunch to get the material. We don’t have enough in the world to turn that much [lithium] production in the world by 2035.” (Emphasis mine)

With the average electric car battery requiring roughly 8-10kg of the metal, lithium remains a crucial material in the transition to emission-free vehicles. Growing demand has caused the price of lithium carbonate to nearly double this year alone, and the IEA projects demand to grow by 40 times in the next two decades, with a majority of that supply coming from outside of the U.S.

The president has called for half of all new vehicles sold by 2030 to be electric, setting aside billions of dollars in the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) to incentivize drivers to make the shift.

But those same tax credits come with requirements calling for parts and components to be largely sourced in North America, leading some EV makers to push back against the goals on the grounds that they are not realistic.

While carmakers like General Motors (GM) have rushed to secure partnerships with domestic mining operations in anticipation of the demand, the Albemarle (ALB) Silver Peak mine in Nevada remains the only operational lithium mine with meaningful output.

Wealth Advisor

One US source, insufficient supplies to meet demand.  Reminds me of California mandating no ICE-engined outdoor tools – like most folks who have a few acres, I need a bigger mower to handle the acres, a push mower is not feasible. My John Deere does the job – but check out what a 60″ electric equivalent runs:  $7000 at Lowes for one they claim will work 4 hours at a time (so probably more like 3.) A commercial Gravely which claims to work all day on one charge? Not quite $33,000. Yeah, that’s gonna work for most folks…

Category: Global Warming Voodoo, Government Incompetence, It's science!, Reality Check, Science and Technology, WTF?

66 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Commissioner Wretched

I’ve always found it amusing when “mandatory” comes up against “reality.”

Mandatory always loses.

xyzxy

That’s cos reality always wins.

RGR 4-78

Unless your name IS reality winner, then you get to win stupid prizes.

Sapper3307

Solutions?

6sn7rc.jpg
President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

ROFLOL!

HT3

So, you’re telling me that politicians set goals without researching if they were attainable?
Or, they know they are not attainable and the masses will just have to do without.
Either way they’re trying to fuck us over.

Anonymous

Genius!

SFC D

I had a 1.5K generator that I sold to a co-worker. Had it in the back of my ’55 CJ-3B, gate guard looks at it and says “I didn’t know Willys made a hybrid”. Cracked himself up.

Sapper3307

And a lil math.

6s74jy.jpg
Sparks

Thay just don’t get it or just refuse to look at the big picture Sapper.

A Proud Infidel®™️

BUT it makes the screeching crusaders and politicians feel special, and that’s all of what’s important to them.

KoB

The despotic tyrants aren’t not concerned with having enough raw materials to produce POVs because the peasants and collective farm slaves will have no need for a POV.

RGR 4-78

They will not be happy until we are all subsistence farmers without access to the outside world and no way to travel more than a couple of miles from home.

Control.
We the People.

Av8or33

They don’t want you to drive an electric car, they want you on buses and trains. Electric car mandates are not an unattainable goal if you have no intention of having most people driving.

5JC

No one is riding their train in California.

The current world wide production of Lithium is enough to produce 6.8M cars and light trucks annually. Current world production of same vehicles is around 25M. That is assuming that is all goes to ground vehicles; but less than half does.

Lithium in vehicle batteries is recycled but not so much in other things like computers and small batteries.

Last edited 4 months ago by 5JC
Av8or33

How about all the present uses of lithium? Will the need for batteries used in everything from industrial scale power storage down to small batteries go away? And California is still using mostly ICE cars, sorry but California is not a great example they import most of their electricity and have trouble keeping the lights on. Lithium is only one small part of the EV conundrum, nickel, cobalt, copper production will also need to be addressed, not to mention plastics which are petroleum products. Have you ever been to NYC or similar urban areas? How will you charge your car? Will there be curbside charging every 12’? Will every parking space be a charging station? Most homes even in the suburbs are going to need a charging station of at least level 2 capacity and that still takes hours. EVs are neat toys but impractical for long distance traveling, range and charging times will need to be inline with ICE vehicles and the infrastructure is not even close to being sufficient.

Av8or33

So yes if ICE vehicles are prematurely phased out most people will find their asses on a bus.

Av8or33

Lithium demand is also growing exponentially in industrial scale energy storage, we have large battery banks all over the country and many are more are being built every day. With the environmental costs of lithium production growing at a staggering rate and the complete disregard for the health of the workers many of them forced labor in 3rd world primarily African countries how long before our progressive politicians equate these raw materials to blood diamonds, remember them? Bottom line is without a planned long term switch from ICE to something better, EVs will not be practical for most people and our infrastructure is nowhere near ready. Mass transit will be the only answer for most people. Welcome to Europe, that’s what they want anyway.

5JC

California doesn’t import “most” of their electric, about 25%, which is the most of any state in the country. With the population, regulation, labor costs and cost of land there importing is way cheaper than building power plants.

The vast majority of American’s seldom, if ever drive long distances. The average person drives 40 miles a day. That is abut 20 minutes of charging.

Last edited 4 months ago by 5JC
Av8or33

Don’t know where you live or what you’re lifestyle is but I don’t know anyone that only drives 40 miles a day. And most people I know like to take road trips. I agree if you have a small commute and the ability to have a level 2 charger the 110 volt ones are useless unless you hardly drive, then an electric car may be for you. It’s not at the present time and state of technology useful as anything but a commuter car or toy. I love how the greenies are wetting themselves over the F150 lightning, it was tested towing a 5000lbs travel trailer and made it 86 miles. Stunning performance!! I have friends that own Teslas impressive performance but none of them trust it more than a couple hundred miles. Not practical, fast charging also degrades battery life and is also responsible for fires, the reason they presently are not installed indoors. Bottom line let the market decide not politicians. And ask yourself why hybrid technology, which makes way more sense than EVs are being banned.

Av8or33

Also please explain how to increase in electric consumption is going to be addressed? And how is it going to be transmitted and supplied to the end user? Sounds like an moving the emissions from the tail pipe to a smokestack somewhere out of sight so virtue signaling D bags can feel good about themselves is still going to have a heavy environmental cost and a practical cost for the rest of us. Let the market decide, the superior products will win.

5JC

It’s not getting transferred to smoke stacks. Practically all capacity added in the last ten years in the US has been wind or solar. You will also be pleased to know that the market has decided. Solar is now the cheapest source of electricity in all of human history.

https://www.mprnews.org/episode/2022/06/03/solar-is-now-the-cheapest-energy-in-history

Anonymous

Works great at night.

UpNorth

And in winter, in the Northern states.

Av8or33

Tell it Block Island Rhode Island about the only good thing about the wind farm is the cable that was supposed to send electricity to the grid. That cable imports more energy from the mainland than goes the other way.

5JC

Off shore wind is not economically viable at all. I believe the whole farm is shut down now.

Still not the worst boondoggle from the left. For the craziest and most expensive thing they tried Google the Kemper Project. $7.5B in the shredder.

poetrooper

From Wikipedia:

“The plant missed all its targets and plans for “clean coal” generation were abandoned in July 2017. The plant is expected to go ahead burning natural gas only.”

And that’s after exceeding original cost estimates by more than tripled billions… 🙄 

Av8or33

Solars energy density is horrible and the amount of land it takes up is crazy. I live in the northeast and our land value is far too high to dedicate much of it to solar. Old landfills are being used as is spare land at airports, wastewater treatment plants but generally none of the projects I’ve seen have lived up to the expectations the municipality was sold on. Sorry but practically isn’t there. Maybe the next idea will be using less valuable property in rural areas to supply places like mine with power, I’m sure the red states won’t mind being covered in solar panels and wind turbines to keep blue states powered 😄. Believe me I live in a blue state that loves green if someone else does the suffering.

Roh-Dog

These wastes of resources, known as ‘solar farms’, currently only exist because of subsides.

If we had a fair approach to energy production and utilization it would be hundreds of years from now when ‘alternative systems’ would be economically viable.

We have 500ish years of coal in the eastern part of these States ‘United’.

Av8or33

I have no problem with sustainable energy, but having something forced on us especially when it’s not ready for prime time is ridiculous. Bad thing is that the people doing the forcing won’t be inconvenienced at all. Research into new technology is a good thing but believing in fairytales and being blind to the reality and costs isn’t progress. I’m a realist, my opinion on this subject isn’t political, I’m open minded and would love to see sustainable energy work, just as of now it’s a dream.

Roh-Dog

Absolutely agreed. I’ve seen large farms here in CT paneled-over thanks to these ‘forced inconveniences’.

If the pricing mechanisms for energy and food break, as they seem to be doing internationally, we may have the lights on but many will go hungry because of out-sourcing food production outside of the sphere of economically viable transportation.

Rinse and repeat ’till collapse.

Is this a hyperbolic example?

Yep.

But resiliency is a function of free markets, and that has been harmed.

5JC

Solar isn’t a good option in the Northeast unless access to the grid is too costly.

Red States are already covered in oil wells and fracking pits so solar panels are just another thing.

ALL OF THE ENERGY INDUSTRY IS SUBSIDIZED. This dated and wrong information that Roh-Dog keeps pushing is like a sickness. Take out all subsidies and well, just read it for yourself:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2020/01/21/renewable-energy-prices-hit-record-lows-how-can-utilities-benefit-from-unstoppable-solar-and-wind/?sh=1ef8bcf62c84

The real fairy tale is believing that the rest of the industry hasn’t been subsidized since the very start. That is how we got electricity. Have you ever heard of the TVA????

Last edited 4 months ago by 5JC
Av8or33

The fossil fuel industry powers the world, mandated green policies will kill people. Since the industrial revolution the world population has exponentially increased and so has life expectancy. How many people will have to be eliminated to make sustainable energy work? Who gets heated, cooled, and fed? Fossil fuels have a higher energy density than any known practical source. Reality is reality, and I need a bit more convincing of the end of the world. Right now I’m sitting on my boat, I’ve grown up on the ocean and guess what? Tide marks are still the same islands and rocks I’ve known as kid are still there. I guess I’m not supposed to believe my lying eyes. Places that flooded when I was a kid still flood but more people have built houses there. No the Ocean hasn’t risen more people live in places that have always flooded under the right conditions. I need more than the experts opinion, their track record hasn’t been stellar.

5JC

I don’t where your boat is but it clearly isn’t off the coast of Louisiana or a number of other places I can think of. In the last 90 years 2000 square miles of Louisiana have been reclaimed by the sea.

So who is dying from windmills and solar panels again?

Av8or33

Sorry I frequent the gulf coast,canals and land reclamation projects man made levees and generally man made changes to the Mississippi delta region have caused major changes. Also more people are living in places that occasionally disappear. We have similar issues up here. But you guys down there have caused a lot of inadvertent problems trying to change the environment. It’s not climate change.

Av8or33

Buy the way I love the gulf coast

Av8or33

Also I don’t have a problem with sustainable energy and I repeat a mandatory switch to something that doesn’t meet our needs is stupid and will kill people. Maybe someday this energy utopia will exist but it isn’t anytime soon.

poetrooper

“In the last 90 years 2000 square miles of Louisiana have been reclaimed by the sea.”

Those are alluvial lands built up by river deposits so they can’t be used as relevant examples.

“So who is dying from windmills and solar panels again?”

Um, ask a few million birds… 🙄 

SFC D

Many coastal areas have actually sunk due to groundwater pumping.

Roh-Dog

“..[t]ake out all subsidies…”

NOW YOUR FUCKING TALKING!

Here’s a little fact about me for you, I don’t care where the power comes from, I’m just absolutely tired of paying for malinvestment.

Now get the boot out of your mouth and think a little bit.

Cui bono et quid modo?

5JC

I live in the South in a mostly rural area. I drive 20 miles a day to commute and a bit more for recreational activities. For work I drive about 110 miles a day but am provided a work car for that. If I worked in an office I would drive about 30 miles a day.

Most of the driving that I do on my own I either ride one of my motorcycles (45 or 60 MPG) or my Corvette which gets surprisingly good gas mileage (20-28MPG).

The political argument is that the market does not take into account long term cost of ICE. Since it is obvious that you don’t believe that to be the case the economics don’t make sense to you. If they are correct than the economics do make sense.

Last edited 4 months ago by 5JC
Roh-Dog

I have 7,000 reasons per EV to qualified purchasers (in the form of socialistic/patronage cum fascistic grift) that this is wrong.

This is nothing more than an interested few deciding for the many what is proper, fair and just.

It’s ok to be wrong, but it’s becoming the norm with you.

5JC

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Your language has become a bit more strangled as of late. Some of your posts are nonsensical even to you.

if you are talking about the tax credit it is up to $7500, not 7000, making your statements on being wrong ironic. Of course credits are computed at the tax rates so various multipliers apply.

The way you are writing implies you are okay with other tax breaks if they aren’t for leftist causes? Or maybe no tax credits for anyone? Can’t really tell. Not sure I care. Just appears hypocritical.

Roh-Dog

I don’t care about the size of the theft, only that it is happening.

You want an EV? Go buy one, yourself.

Of course I’m not ok with tax breaks, I’m not ‘ok’ with any of the current tax system, as it is unconstitutional at best!

Also, typos happen. Auto corrects happen.
And mistakes (kinda) happen…

5JC

Got you. So more of a generic complaint of our tax system.

Me too.

I could have bought a Tesla for what I paid for my Vette. But.. “My Tesla is such a panty dropper” said no one ever.

https://insideevs.com/news/452485/tesla-model-3-corvette-c8-drag-race/

Av8or33

Nice car. I’m more of a C2and 3 guy. But you have to love a car that can compete with the Ferraris, etc for less than half the cost. I myself restore vintage autos and love pretty much anything mechanical.

poetrooper

“I have no idea what you are trying to say. Your language has become a bit more strangled as of late. Some of your posts are nonsensical even to you.”

Read the complete works of James Joyce.

It’ll help… 😂 

Av8or33

Just don’t believe in fairytales. Maybe someday the technology will catch up but mandating what just doesn’t work is dangerous and dumb.

26Limabeans

You don’t live in rural Maine. In the winter.
Not mining country but pulp wood country.
Next time you wipe your ass think about where
that toilet paper came from.
And it gets hauled a looong way to the Mills.

5JC

Not sure how that applies here. But next time I am taking a shit I will think of Maine.

Roh-Dog

Puerile cuss.

5JC

Aren’t you the little Kettle today?

RGR 4-78

I have buckets of rechargeable batteries I need to take to the recycler, they don’t pay much, but it is better than sending them to a landfill.

Graybeard

The difference between the Titanic and California?

The Titanic had its lights on when it sank.

Anonymous

comment image

Last edited 4 months ago by Anonymous
Anonymous

2nd try:

302744555_519388196662299_4929479837375304377_n.jpg
SoCalPir8

 “The green dream is not just a folly but a fraud.” Always has been. 

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/09/the-green-revolution-is-impossible.php

5JC

LMFAO. Peak Copper! You think the Peak Oil people are nuts….

“… the age of electricity and of copper will be short. At the intense rate of production that must come, the copper supply of the world will last hardly a score of years. … Our civilization based on electrical power will dwindle and die.”

-Ira Joralemon (geologist and copper-mining expert) 1924

Yes we will run out of copper someday, just like we will run out of everything else. Somewhere between 180-90,000,000 years from now. the 90M is a hard number but I am not too worried.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_copper

11B-Mailclerk

The commands are from our wise and benevolent betters.

They will state clearly that it is our fault if things do not go as commanded. We didn’t do it right. We wanted too much. Etc.

Anonymous

How totalitarianism always goes. The commisar orders something unfeasible, then has workers shot when it’s not successful.

Hack Stone

poetrooper

“The commands are from our wise and benevolent betters.”

Mail, are you sure you didn’t misspell malevolent? 😉 

Hack Stone

Roh-Dog

Physics and Chemistry are but a hurdle for these Feelings-Based “Logic” folks.

When their failures reach crescendo they will attempt to pass the buck then hunt down anyone who dared to speak out against The Cult of Naivety.

Silently, riding electric scooter steeds they will line up on anyone burning hydrocarbons, starting with diesel truck drives first, post quick reading of the charges these monsters will jump on the poor victim to repeatedly plunge bespoke knives as sacrifice to the climate gods.

Emboldened by an orgy of blood, every increment brings them closer to false paradise.

The Terror will not stop until It’s only sustenance is long pork and they consume each other to zero.

poetrooper

A question for 5JC: What’s going on with you? As Roh Dog noted, you are becoming increasingly contentious in your comments. Somebody key that Corvette that you keep reminding us you own? Take a hammer to your Harley?

Seriously, counselor, most here at TAH hate these endless strings that used to be attributed to Lars, but lately, more and more, they seem to be your inspirations.

You’ve previously identified yourself here as a lawer. What must now be determined: Are you a level-headed rgr769 type of barrister or are you that other kind, you know, that dickhead who flew one of his toys right into the ground?

Look, if you’re going through male menopause or a midlife crisis, let us know and Ed will form a support team and we’ll get all this taken care of.

Won’tcha Ed?  😉 

5JC

I have never once said I was a lawyer. I have said I work in the legal field, which is a pretty broad field taken as a whole.

If someone insults me they get what they gave. If someone is factually incorrect and spreading things that are untrue then I point it out. Leave the lies to others, they belittle the person issuing them and weaken whatever it is they are trying to say.

Fact checking this crew is a full time job and I let most of it go. It appears to be dutiful recitation of various pundits and talking heads. I believe I know why people believe things to be true even though they are not, but little can be done about it once it gets in their head.

I find it ironic that on a blog that is supposed to be dedicated to insuring honesty and honor so many things that are untrue get posted and so few challenge it. Please note then whenever I refute someone’s false assertions I nearly always post a link to a source and whenever questioned I always do.

TLDR – Not on the rag.