Federal appeals court rules male-only draft constitutional

| August 16, 2020

ninja sends us this article from The Hill.

A federal appeals court in New Orleans overturned a lower court ruling that the male-only draft is unconstitutional.

From the article;

A federal appeals court ruled Thursday that requiring only men to register for the military draft is constitutional.

The Supreme Court ruled in 1981 that women could be excluded from registering since combat jobs were closed to them.

Combat jobs have since been opened to women, but the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans said Thursday it cannot reverse the Supreme Court’s precedent.

The title of The Hill’s article (and mine by extension) are a tad misleading though. The appeals court actually didn’t rule on the merits of changing the draft. They found that, since it was a SCOTUS decision, lower courts don’t have the standing to change that precedent.

“The factual underpinning of the controlling Supreme Court decision has changed, but that does not grant a court of appeals license to disregard or overrule that precedent,” the three-judge panel ruled, adding that “only the Supreme Court may overrule its precedents.”

It’s all probably moot anyway. We’ve been fighting two wars for nigh on 20 years now and several other peacekeeping, foreign assistance, and low intensity conflicts mixed in for good measure on an entirely volunteer force. Absent Canada finally invading, we’re unlikely to see a draft any time soon. The way things are going, they’ll be drafting my laptop before they draft my kids.

Congress has also pledged to revisit the issue, but I won’t hold my breath on that.

Source; The Hill

Thanks again, ninja!

Category: Guest Link, Legal, ninja, SCOTUS

Comments (49)

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  1. Ret_25X says:

    Any excuse to pretend there is no issue.

    If this were women suing to be drafted they would have invented something out of new cloth.

    Whenever I hear a women screeeeee about being oppressed, I mention the draft. “Register to die or STFU”

    • Ret_25X says:

      for context, I oppose the draft completely.

      It is an outdated concept and needs to go away.

      But then, that is what a libertarian thinks about all use of force laws whether they be taxes or business licenses.

      The Non Aggression Principle is also why I condemn all leftist political theory and believers. The entire conceptual basis of Marx is the initiation of force.

      I’m looking at YOU Lars.

      • rgr769 says:

        You mean they used force of arms in the 1917 Communist Revolution in Russia? I thought those proud Marxists just volunteered to be starved, imprisoned, and shot; or if one was lucky, live with five families in a filthy three room apartment.

        • Roh-Dog says:

          It would be funny…if it wasn’t the most egregious, depraved course of actions that led to the largest democide perpetrated by a cult in the 20th century.
          Or was that the Communist Chinese?
          Eh, f*** ‘em both.

      • USMC Steve says:

        I agree with you. Possibly for different reasons though. Drafting the crap available out there would significantly reduce our military abilities. Also, the Army demonstrated in four wars that having over three quarters of your folks there forcibly, is not really fully conducive to best performance. The volunteer military significantly raised military readiness, because the people there WANTED to be there, and were fully willing to do the job.

        • timactual says:

          Since we still have the JAG corps, MP and CID, and brigs/stockades/prisons I think there must be a few volunteers who are not fully willing to do the job.

          Second, you don’t have to draft everyone. The “crap available” is not necessarily the crap taken.

          Also, most draftees did a good job. Many, if not most of the performance problems were caused by bad leadership (at all levels), which are volunteer positions.

          Lastly, the all volunteer military is too expensive.

  2. Sparks says:

    Feminists are gonna be lining up demanding a new draft and their right to be drafted, then get pregnant and not do anything for 18 months or so.

    • ninja says:

      Sparks:

      Please do not forget that it physically takes two to create a life.

      😉😎

      • 11B-Mailclerk says:

        One of them will be fit for duty and one will not.

        • ninja says:

          11B-Mailclerk:

          If you think about it, “Fit For Duty” also entails a Soldiers mental and emotional well being as well as the ability to mentally accomplishing a mission while under stress and pressure.

          Had one Female Soldier who got a waiver from Army Physicians to take the PT test when she was 2 months pregnant. She also participated in the unit runs during morning PT and outran some male Soldiers.

          She was also great at her job with a goal to become a Senior NCO…and yes, she was a Squad leader with her Squad comprised of both men and women.

          Pregnant or not pregnant, that Soldier had the support of not only her Chain of Command, but also her peers and subordinates.

          Appreciate you providing your feedback on this topic. We all have different views on this topic because of our personal experiences on what we did or are currently doing in the military.

          Thank Goodness We Are Not Gingerbread Men Cut From The Same Cookie Cutter.

          😉😎

          • 11B-Mailclerk says:

            One is walking around with a non-detachable noncombatant. The other is not.

            One may choose duty over slacking or malingering, it is a choice to be made. The other has no choice, they are pregnant with a human being that is -not- to be in harm’s way, and that does compromise physical ability and moral choices.

            Not comparable. Not waiverable. Not “with the support of…”. Reality says ” different”, and no policy, conditioning, attitude, or phrasing can alter that biological and moral reality.

            That infant -human being- has -no- business there, period. Thus the human carrying that human should not be there.

            Culture must be based on reality.

            • Roh-Dog says:

              “Culture must be based on reality.”
              Reporting you to The Central Repository for Disreliefpensation of Wrongthink and Other Crimes Against Equalizationitude.
              Have fun in “Camp” you f’ing Nawtzee.

            • rgr769 says:

              Ditto. But hey, you can’t bring up biology and the reality of combat; that’s sexist.

    • Green Thumb says:

      After being wounded and getting through rehab and being finally sent back to my home unit, I went into the brigade chow hall one day.

      20+ women. All pregnant and in soft shoes.

      When we rolled to the box, out Foxtrot Co (indigenous battalion level support) had about 8 women, if I remember correctly. Six became pregnant before the deployment. Two carried to term.

      Not making accusations. Just stating fact.

      • ninja says:

        Green Thumb:

        And behind every one of those women are men.

        As you shared, just stating facts.

        😉😎

        • Green Thumb says:

          Yep.

          Dirtbag Soldiers have no specific color or gender. It takes two to tango and they both fucking knew the score. On that I will agree.

          That is what makes it fucking scary.

          The F Co CO had to bring in six new Soldiers and get them spun in in fucking quick time before stepping off.

          Yeah. He got fucked too. Just not in the normal sense.

          That aside, unsure if they were all married. Not that it matters, per se.

          Bottom line: they collectively fucked the unit.

          • ninja says:

            Green Thumb.

            You are SO right.

            There ARE folks out there that only care about their own personal interest, which makes me wonder why they joined the Military in the first place.

            Saw that happened during Desert Storm as well as OEF/OIF.

            Those “Soldiers” true colors came out.

            And yes, it is indeed scary.

            IMHO, I don’t think those “Soldiers” had any interest in taking care of our Country, let alone their unit.

            And sadly, those “Soldiers” are still out there.

            Just My Two Pennies.

        • ninja says:

          Green Thumb and Sparks:

          I DID have a Single Female Soldier who became pregnant right before our unit deployed to the Sandbox.

          She stayed behind working in the Rear.

          When her baby was about 6 months old, we cut orders for her to deploy forward, which she did.

          I also had Male Soldiers who decided to put in their retirement papers after 9-11. They were Honkey-Dorey working in Peacetime conditions, but as soon as we got word we were going forward to the Sandbox, they all of the sudden did not want to be in the US Army.

          Also had Male Soldiers whose wives all of the sudden had a mysterious “Mental Breakdown” when their wives found out they had to go forward (their reason why they could not deploy). Our Chain of Command helped with their family situation, but in the end, those Soldiers ended up going into the Sandbox with the rest of us.

          IMHO, it is the PERSON, the SOLDIER, not the Gender, as to why they wanted to delay their deployment or not go forward at all.

          Saw the same thing happen during Desert Storm. I don’t think those Soldiers realized that eventually, based on the length of our involvement in the Middle East from 2001 to present,that they WOULD go into the Sandbox if they wanted to retire from the Military.

          • timactual says:

            ” it is the PERSON, the SOLDIER, not the Gender, as to why they wanted to delay their deployment or not go forward at all.”

            Except it IS the gender(sex) that gets pregnant.

            “She stayed behind working in the Rear.”

            So who was the poor slob who had to deploy instead of her? I wonder how he/she and their family felt. Was it a real job? Was it classified “Line of Duty” so she got free medical care courtesy of the taxpayers?

          • A Proud Infidel®™ says:

            “I also had Male Soldiers who decided to put in their retirement papers after 9-11. They were Honkey-Dorey working in Peacetime conditions, but as soon as we got word we were going forward to the Sandbox, they all of the sudden did not want to be in the US Army.”

            I remember seeing that type after 9/11, the wusses saying “I joined up for college money not War” and shit like that, Well *DUUUHHHHHH*, what is the purpose of the US Military? It isn’t JUST for a chance at college! I myself went back in just so I could get deployed and got myself two tours in the litterbox.

            • Green Thumb says:

              I actually joined for the college money back in the peacetime Army.

              War was a bitch.

              But I signed a contract and honored my end. As did Uncle Sam.

        • timactual says:

          “And behind every one of those women are men.”

          So?

          I(?) and a friend go out drinking. The next morning I am present for duty, my friend isn’t. Whose fault is that?

    • USMC Steve says:

      No, you aren’t going to hear a peep out the gurls about it. They know being draft eligible is not something that would be a positive experience for them. Even with that pregnancy bit to save them if they really want out. Even in the Marines, we had a few crack troops (derogative term for non performing females in the Marines) who got knocked up to skate for like 18 months, then get out. I personally know of none who stayed in after delivering.

  3. ninja says:

    I agree with what Ret_25X commented about getting rid of the Draft.

    It ties in what Mason wrote.

    We also need to get rid of the UN…or if it continues to exist, relocate their Headquarters OUTSIDE the United States.

    We need to quit being the World’s Policemen and take care of our own Country.

    • A Proud Infidel®™ says:

      “We also need to get rid of the UN…or if it continues to exist, relocate their Headquarters OUTSIDE the United States.”

      I concur. If the Swiss are as neutral as they claim, then I suggest relocating the United Nothing HQ to Geneva!

    • Ret_25X says:

      I don’t think repealing the Selective Service Act is politically feasible.

      But I think that will happen before the dee dee dees in Washington DC agree to leave the UN…

      The UN, like NATO, is obsolete and based on realities no longer valid.

      But, like all institutions, it seems to be impervious to rational debate…

  4. HMCS(FMF) ret says:

    Sounds like the SCOTUS may be seeing this case in the future… I can understand the NO court’s reasoning behind it (SCOTUS made the original ruling, SCOTUS should hear it and decide).

    Although, in this day and age with judges legislating from the bench, I’m surprised that that some overzealous judge didn’t jump all over this.

  5. 5th/77th FA says:

    Equal rights mean Equal rights. However, the whole draft question for females is a mute point anyway because a draft in this Country would never work again. Too many snowflakes and SJW Howler Monkeys. They will stand by, meekly, while awaiting their turn to be violated and pillaged, wondering why it is happening to someone like them that is so “woke” and “inclusive.” There are females on this site that I would not hesitate to stand shoulder to shoulder with, pick the Colors and advance “once more into the breach lads!” That means there are others like them out there. Can we say “Molly Pitcher” or “Nancy Hart”? There was an entire Company of Nancy Harts that met for formal drill in the city of LaGrange during the unpleasantness of 1861. The Ladies of Jackson Georgia met Sherman’s Troops with pitchforks, rakes and, brooms to protect home and hearth in November of ’64. It worked too.

    You don’t have to pull a trigger, snatch a lanyard or fly off a carrier to serve your country. Just ask Rosie! Careful, she may shoot you with her rivet gun.

    • Green Thumb says:

      No way, brah.

      It’s all about Special rights and Special status.

      Why be “Equal” when you can be “Special” and get ahead at others expense?

    • ninja says:

      KoB:

      What I think is injust is that a Male must register to be eligible for federal student financial aid, state-funded student financial aid in many states, most federal employment, some state employment, security clearance for contractors, job training under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (formerly known as the Workforce Investment Act), and U.S. citizenship for immigrant men.

      That “rule” does not only to Females.

      Either we get rid of the Draft or make it mandatory that Women have to register as well.

      Just My Two Cents.

      And of course, just because a Male is registered does not mean they will automatically be drafted into the military based on standards.

      So…if a Male transform to a Female before their 18th Birthday and Visa Versa, does this mean the “Female” Male does not need to register with the Selective Service and the “Male” Female does need to register?

      Just Asking For A Friend.

      😉😎

      • 5th/77th FA says:

        Interesting question about the draft status of the ones that have been and/or are contemplating a modification of what God gave them. I registered just before my 18th birthday, thru the School Office. The card was received in just a few days. You may recall (from your history lessons) that a buncha guys were burning their cards then. And the girls were burning their bras. I used to offer to help remove and gather up the bras for burning. When I enlisted right after HS graduation and reported for induction, I was asked why I didn’t wait for the draft and see if I’d get called. Told ’em I was actually looking forward for a chance to “Kill a Commie for Mommy!” Some looked at me kinda strangely. Anyway, there were a number of guys at the ATL MEPPS that were either wearing or claimed to wear ladies garments. Others were claiming to be “gay”, tho that is not the term that they used. The term rhymes with “steer.” Some were told that the Army would issue them a complete wardrobe, another Doctor offered some a chance to orally gratify any of the half nekkid fellows in the exam line for anyone that was into that. Big surprise, he had no takers.

        Sadly, as has been discussed here, there are so many that want to be in the Military, not to serve their Country, but to be served by their country. Male AND Female. Maybe when we are being invaded by a hostile army, as the South was in the 1860s, the ones that DON’T WANT to be violated will volunteer or allow themselves to be drafted and help defend our Country and our way of life.

        As NB Forrest said at one point in time, “…I have no respect for a young man who will not join the colors.” That should be true for young women as well. One of Papa’s sisters was not physically able to wear the uniform in WWII that she wanted to, but she sure made a buncha things that go BOOM at the Naval Ordnance Plant. The Israeli girls seemed to have no problem with a draft and there were numerous cases of Red Army Girl Warriors. And we can’t forget all of the underground Resistance Fighters. Remember the story of the girl who was asked for the names of her Compatriots just before she was hung by the Germans? Her reply…”You will know them when the come to avenge my death!” A person can “have a pair” without actually “having a pair.”

      • timactual says:

        “So…”

        LOL.
        Only in America.

      • 11B-Mailclerk says:

        Register all for the draft or none.

        Can’t have it both ways ladies. If you can’t be drafted because “plumbing”, then you can’t be other things because “plumbing”.

        All things.

    • timactual says:

      Then there is that “Equal Protection” thing. Male Lives Matter.

  6. Roh-Dog says:

    Men are second class citizens, more so now than any moment in history.
    And no, you can not ‘change my mind’.

  7. NHSparky says:

    Fuck it. We live in a world that if we had a national emergency that warranted a draft, we’d already be screwed.

    • Ret_25X says:

      ^^this^^

      I would also note that the USA does not actually have the infrastructure to draft, house, train, and equip the kind of military a general mobilization envisages.

      We won’t even talk about the cost.

      The US federalized the NG in 1940 and began building a 90 division Army at that time. It still took until 1944 to have it.

      That made sense when the only way to strike an enemy involved shipping hundreds of thousands of men across an ocean in ships moving at 15 Knots and even “long range” bombers could not make a flight to Europe and back.

      In the modern world…not so much.

  8. Combat Historian says:

    Do 18 year old male-to-female trannies have to register for the draft? What is the threshold for them to not have to register? Self-identification? Dressing like a girl? Estrogen treatment? Full surgical snipping? Does Selective Service even have answers to these questions?

  9. Roh-Dog says:

    I just realized something, draft boards. If the draft ever gets ‘turned on’, local draft boards have the responsibility to excuse individuals from service. Unfortunately I am retired and unauthorized to serve on a board, but if the board would like to use its powers to deputize me to ‘round up’ all service-eligible females to draft them, I’m easy to find.
    I’m sure we can work on the de’tail’s later.
    (Too crass? Not enough?)

  10. 26Limabeans says:

    Heh, I found my selective service card from the 60’s.
    A bit foggy from the lamination but readable.
    Never bothered to figure out who was on the local Board.
    Didn’t matter at the time because I had a student deferment “2-S”.
    After one semester I dropped out and joined the Army anyway.
    Too bad you could not swap and trade deferments. That 2-S would
    have been like Gold to some wealthy parents with an at risk son.
    Hell, you can trade Moose permits now so if the Draft comes back
    why not make it a “real” lottery where bartering is allowed?
    Stupid Bill Ayers probably burned his so no money for you asshole.

    Draft Cards Matter

    • Ret_25X says:

      there could be Draft Card Backed Securities traded on Wall St as AAA bonds…people could go ape shit bidding the prices to the moon…then it could collapse…

      The banks would get bailed out but you would still have to report to Fort Benning….LOL

    • timactual says:

      The Union tried something like that during the Civil War. Rich folks could hire substitutes. Some of the substitutes were serial substitutes; take the money, go into the army, desert, change name, take money, …..

      • KoB says:

        Them Johnny Rebs had a hired substitute program too, tho not as big a problem as the Union with the “Bounty Jumpers.” Hence forth the FIRST use of the term, “Rich man’s war, Poor man’s fight.”

        And if anyone thinks the “draft riots” of the 1960s were bad, do a Google Foo for the Draft Riots of New York in July 1863. Blacks were lynched from lamps posts and a Black Orphanage was set ablaze. Troops fresh from the Battle of Gettysburg were sent in to quell that “rebellion.” Some of that was depicted in the Gangs of New York motion picture.

  11. Ex-PH2 says:

    I always thought it was ridiculous that guys had to register with Selective Service but girls didn’t.

    Maybe we should consider doing what courts used to do in them there Days of Yore: tell the troublemakers that they can do time in jail or do time in the military. A lot of them chose the military and straightened up.