You’re wrong and you should know better
There is nothing I hate more than anyone disrespecting flag of the United States of America, or the uniform of it’s armed services. From the hipster that wears the OD fatigues with patches as an “ironic” way of showing their disdain for the military to the idiots that act the fool while in uniform nothing makes my blood boil faster. I can accept open disagreements with how the military should be employed, I can even accept ignorance of what the military actually does, but I simply can not accept any disrespect. I can not accept any politician using the troops as a prop for political gain, nor can I accept any troops using their uniform, rank or position to affect the political climate with anything not directly affecting the business of their service.
We’ve seen it happen before. Maybe it started with Jon Kerry tossing his medals, then going before congress and lying about the “testimony” he got from “veterans” during the Winter soldier fiasco. Maybe it was exacerbated by Danny Choi, who constantly uses his uniform to play dress up and get attention. Maybe that douchebag Marine Sergeant that kept posting anti-Obama stuff all over Facebook (despite lawful and direct orders not to) has a hand in the continuing climate too. I know for a fact that the narcissistic valor thieves can’t wait to get their slice of the action.
So with all that said I think it’s pretty clear I loathe such people. Imagine how I felt when I came across this little gem.
You think someone who joined the Air Force in say 1959, wanted to end up in Vietnam? How about they guys that joined in the late 90’s and ended up in Iraq. It sucks, and you can never tell where you’ll end up. That’s part of the job. You probably didn’t join for “area beautification” or getting stuck on a Sergeant Major’s detail when your LT sends your platoon into an ambush in the field. I didn’t join to put tubes in men’s urethra’s. There’s a whole lot of fine print when you join. One thing that should be abundantly clear is that you swore to “Obey the orders of the President and the officers appointed over me according to the uniform code of military justice.” Until the President gives an illegal order (say “I want you to kill all first born sons”) you are legally, orally and ethically bound to FOLLOW THOSE ORDERS. Regardless of how we feel about the missions we’re handed down, we’ve got to suck it up and do them. When you raise your right hand you lose your “rights” as an American Citizen and fall under a whole new set of rights and privileges. One of those regulations states very clearly that you may not use that uniform for any political speech.
The troops are not and can not be a part of the political process. The military has untold power at its fingertips. and if unchecked could run rampant. If a General were to get the idea that he could be a Caesar, and that the Mississippi was the Rubicon, what’s to stop him? Only the solemn knowledge that his troops would never follow his orders, and most would actually put him in the brig if he tried to march on Washington (Rome). There is a very fine, and dangerous line that separates us from every two bit banana republic, or half assed Junta. The fact that our military is completely subservient to the Will of the People through their duly elected Representatives is really the ONLY check against some crackpot general from just kicking in the doors of the White House and “fixing” Washington. The populace might actually cheer such a thing, but it would be totally wrong in every way imaginable.
I think Iraq was a mistake. A costly one. But when I got the call I did my damnedest to ensure that my small piece of that mission was successful. I think Syria is a mistake. I think we shouldn’t get involved, but if we do the Soldiers Sailors Airmen and Marines had better be Johnny on the spot or they’re going to get their buddies killed. These two clowns are beneath my contempt. It doesn’t matter if I happen to agree with what they’re saying they are absolutely wrong, and they should be found busted down in rank and perhaps even drummed out. But then, I take disrespecting the uniform more seriously than some people do.
UPDATE:
I wasn’t even finished writing this post when this ass clown popped up on my facebook feed.
[Editor’s note: Doc was joking, of course he doesn’t want the military purged, I’m guessing]
Update 2: I hadn’t even finished that update when this clown shows up.
Update 3: Sooo. . . apparently some on the OTHER side of this issue have gotten in on the act.
Can’t see the rank on this guy, but judging from the tats and the KIA bracelet as well as the wording of the sign I would say this guy is legit (as opposed to the somewhat questionable clowns above). So. . . this is probably about to go full retard PDQ.
Category: "Teh Stoopid", Antiwar crowd, Dumbass Bullshit, Foreign Policy, General Whackos
The guy in photo#1 may have already been discharged. If so, there’s no reason for him to hide behind a piece of paper to assert his dissent.
However, a gold chief’s rating badge denotes at least 12 years of service with no misconduct, which means he should have at least 3 stars on the GC. Nowhere in that rack of ribbons do I see even ONE good conduct ribbon, so I’m calling FAKE.
On top of that, he’s got an awful lot of fruit salad for 12 years or 20. I would expect it from an HM, not a GM. I don’t buy it. Something is not quite right about it.
Can’t quite figure out the hat in the first pic. Probably an optical illusion, but it looks more like a spaceship landed on his head than an authorized piece of headgear.
In times as these..I pause and reflect on my long held philosophical mantra…”WWWD?” before taking action
What Would Wickre Do?
@OWB, it doesn’t look right to me, either. More like a USMC dress cover, not a Navy hat.
This just in: the Arab states are demanding UN action.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/01/20280931-arab-states-call-for-international-action-against-syrian-regime?lite
Looks like any conscientious objectors in the service now should be finding their way to MILPERS to request discharge ASAP.
Not liking any of this. I see no need to ramp up this local conflict into something else. I don’t like the way this is going.
While I’m here, the difference between a lawful order and an unlawful order is simple:
Lawful order: Fire when ready.
Unlawful order: Herd those people into that building, lock the door and set it on fire.
End of story.
Obviously the guy in ACU’s knew he wasn’t right, because he took his name-tape off. Chickenshit.
After spending some time viewing these images, I’m of the belief that they are all part of a propaganda campaign from the left. Remember how they said they didn’t have any money to stage demonstrations? yeah, i don’t buy that either.
What i DO remember from the parades and demonstrations against W is how many fakes and posers they brought in to make it look like veterans were supporting them. I think this is along that same idea.
It’s so damned easy to walk into a surplus store, or head over to ebay and pick up what you need. Note how none of these images show anything from the waist down? How everyone is hiding their face? How the words/printing is remarkably similar, and how a LOT of these guys (there are more on the interwebs and facebook) use the same/similar background?
I’m calling shenannigans here on all of them. I’m saying that this is an organized effort by non-military folks on the left to further their own agenda and to seek to sow discord within the military.
That’s my 2-cent’s worth, and I’m sticking to it. 🙂
68W58: KDSM vice KSM, actually (the KSM ended in 1954). A guy in the Navy getting one isn’t particularly common, but it’s not unheard of either. USFK has a small Navy contingent. And there is (or used to be) a small US naval base at Chinhae on the south coast. The Navy also sends some folks to support exercises from time to time. If the guy did a Team Spirit or Ulchi-Focus one year, he might well have ended up there for 30 or more days and thus qualified for the KDSM – TDY for mission or exercise support qualifies.
My bad on the AFSM; you’re correct, he doesn’t seem to have one of those (not sure which one I thought was it, but it’s not there). The AFEM and NATO medal still work for Balkans support, though.
Regarding his retirement eligibility: if he’s served continuously since Jan 1991, then yes – he has more than 20 years service and could retire voluntarily pretty much any time. If he had a break in service of 3+ years after the Gulf War and then returned to duty (1992-1996, for example), perhaps not. Either’s possible.
Not saying guy’s legit – but with one possible exception, there’s no huge red flag in his ribbons saying “I’m a fake”. His rack might be unusual for someone in the Navy, but it’s plausible.
Ex-PH2: you may have found the exception that proves this guy a fake. However, it’s also possible it’s there, inboard of the NDSM – and hidden by his lapel. I believe that’s where it would go in the Navy’s order or precedence.
So, an E-7 or -8 in the Navy and an E-5 in the USMC come up with a sign to express their displeasure at serving, and use the exact same wording on their signs? Sure, I believe it, uh huh, yep I do.
Now if one looks at the pic of the “Marine”, check the hair, I doubt that the head attached to that hair is a serving Marine.
Attack the messengers, and ignore the message. Whether one thinks these soldiers are right or wrong for voicing their opinions in this way what is essential is the fact that they’re right. The U.S. has no business arming insurgents which include a host of terrorist organizations (including Al Quaeda). Asad is a son-of-a-bitch but the islamists are much worse. Either way, it’s none of our fucking business.
Obama. Let’s stay the fuck out of Syria.
Carlos: that may be true. Here, it is also irrelevant.
A professional Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine follows lawful orders – period. Such an individual does not openly advocate that others disobey lawful orders, or use their uniform as a political prop.
These tools are doing both. In that, they are 100% wrong – regardless of the sentiment or opinion they are stating.
There are proper methods to express dissent. For a military professional, this is NOT one of those proper methods.
Carlos, pay attention.
If you read the blog a bit, you’ll find most here wondering if the Syria thing is a good idea.
YOU were distracted by ONE posting…where these dickbags are being taken to task.
They are either phonies or fuckups. Regardless of whether they’re right or wrong.
Okay, Hondo.
2 is off the target.
Pic 1 is an E-7, Gunner’s Mate with ESWS. Yes, I said E-7, not CPO… a genuine Chief wouldn’t pull this shit on any website or social media site (regardless of whomever is the President). Fucker probably passed on initiation and the other members of the E-7/E-8/E-9 community took him to the local Mickey D’s for a happy meal.
As for the four of them, I hope their commands get a hold of their asses and tear them a new one for pulling this shit. You don’t disobey orders, there are two options – follow them or go to the next person in the Chain to raise the issue…
VI: re63 – ???? Don’t understand, amigo. Can you clarify?
Hondo-pilotspeak.
Lead aircraft is #1, wingman is #2.
After 1 engages the target, 2 covers him as he comes off the target, then calls clear off the target…..
VI: well, I guess we all now know what my CMF wasn’t . . . (smile)
Thanks for the clarification. Missed that completely.
Sorry. I work and play around pilots all day and forget that some of the shorthand is esoteric.
This E-7 (yeah, he’s not a CPO to me either) needs his ass kicked up between his shoulder blades.
I know if I ever worked under this douchetool and I knew for a fact it was him posing for that picture, my lowly E-6 ass would have been calling him a worthless cocksucker and basically DARING him to write me up for it.
Yeah, it would be wrong, but if he doesn’t have the balls to show his face, he wouldn’t have the balls to own up to it by writing me up, either.
Isn’t al queda the enemy, and isn’t aiding the enemy a crime and cannot someone in service legally refuse to commit a crime?
You don’t wear the uniform to make a political point. Syria is a tar baby, just like Afghanistan and Iraq turned out to be. If you are in you follow lawful orders. All wars are illegal and immoral. You can refuse to shoot prisoners or civilians, but not to deploy to a combat zone.
Kid–so by your logic, we should have WWII vets who should have refused to fight as well since the Soviets were allies in name only, and ended up as our enemies after the war?
Again, no illegal order has been issued. These douchetools are the same idiots like the “nirther” crowd who refused to deploy because they “felt” (no proof, mind you) Obama was not an American citizen and therefore any orders he gave were illegal.
That failed on every level imaginable, but facts and logic don’t seem to matter to the criminally stupid.
MCPO, its ok buddy, just have a cigar on Vultures Row and relax, I’ve got the watch with Doc Bailey. The two of us have gone off on groups on FB that think this shit is acceptable behavior for NCOs. This is disrespectful, dishonorable, and conduct unbecoming an NCO. This goes against my Goddamn NCOCreed
@ 42, John You are quite the character, dude.
Those two ribbons on the bottom right side of the rack. If those actually are expert pistol and expert rifle, why is there an “E” covering both of them?
Navy expert pistol and expert rifle look almost exactly alike. Expert pistol has a narrow green pinstripe in the middle. Why would you hide that?
Kudos to the signholder with the tatts.
PH2–there are three levels associated with rifle/pistol in Navy quals: Marksman (no device and ribbon only), Sharpshooter (again, no ribbon, but with brass “S” designation) and Expert (medal with the silver “E” on the ribbon).
Kid–simply put, if our elected officials decide it is in our national interests to align ourselves with the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Queda, the Soviets, or the Looney Toons, we as servicemembers are duty-bound to follow our orders until such time as we are given an illegal one.
Illegal orders include “round up the villagers and shoot them.”
Legal orders include, “in support of a legally promulgated and declared war, bomb targets at locations X, Y, and Z.”
If, as a soldier, I disagree with the precepts under which a war was begun, my legal options are to resign, request release (which is unlikely to be granted), or do my job anyway. My illegal options are AWOL, or the stupid shit these assholes are doing.
Now, if the President presents his case to congress asking them to declare war, and they decide not to, and he goes ahead anyway, there’s going to be bigger problems than these jackwagons showing up on Facebook to deal with.
I know, NHSParky, just trying to figure this out. I think I’m obssessing about it now. I will quit doing that.
Looks like something orchestrated by our old buddy the sKerry. (He was in VietNam, ya know.)
If they’re real, and hiding their faces because they’re cowards – fuck ’em.
If they’re fakers – fuck ’em.
Karma will catch up to them one day. Guaranteed.
Ya know… This is a profoundly important discussion – minus the troll(s).
Do you remember at some of those “Free Bradley Manning” rallies there’d be unmarked cars that would drive up and two (poorly attired) “Soldiers” would hop out and roughly drag a civilian into the car then rapidly drive off? I remember how people were screaming it was proof of a forthcoming police state. I also remember how utterly strange it was that they were doing that off post, not identifying themselves, “snatching” only one person at the periphery, and clearly not MPs or CID.
It is funny how I’M called sheep when I refuse to blindly buy BS stunts like that, or like this. I find it EXTREMELY amazing how even though in a previous post I flat out stated that no good can come from Syria, I’m somehow a war monger when I have such a violent reaction to these individuals. They’re not Brave. They’re not “heroes” they’re not even particularly intelligent (as they clearly haven’t grasped the concept of lawful orders). I’m so sick and tired of idiots like these, Snowden, or Manning being called “heroes” while honest to God heroes are awarded the highest award for valor our nation has and it almost passes without comment.
Anyone else feel like saying; “who is John Gault?”
Doc Bailey #82: I thought of Rand… Then thought of Orwell.
Then decided that I was just paranoid.
@Hondo, you’re correct re: precedence of the Navy GCM being after the Battle “E” and NDSM. It would be covered by the lapel in this case. He also appears to have 8 Sea Service awards and had to have been in since 1991 in order to get two NDSMs.
The bad thing about it is that other than a letter to the editor stating that it is their opinion only, no member of the military can express any political opinion at all that is critical of our foreign policy.
Even if the simply stated that they didn’t believe in fighting in Syria ( vice I won’t deploy) in Civilian clothing they could be hammered.
Doing it right. http://m.imgur.com/o29TpS4
#82 – You can’t win these arguments, Doc. They have their point of view, you have yours. They can’t change you. You can’t change them. It’s just the way it is.
Their have always been outspoken critics within the military on the way things were done. The big difference is it wasn’t plastered all over the internet.
Following the battle of Antietam, after the Emancipation proclaimation was announced, and Popular General MacCllelan was fired the Irish Brigade stacked their armed in protest and were thinking about deserting in mass.
Get out of the military by all means necessary because militaries, especially western ones, have the sole purpose of attacking and invading poor 3rd world nations to steal resources and impose their own geo strategic interests.
DON’T BE A PROSTITUTE FOR YOUR POLITICIAN.
Get out of the army by all means necessary.
#89 Get ready for some backlash, tough guy.
@89- blow it out your ass, half-wit. Leave the real world problems for us grownups.
NavCWORet: by itself, the two NDSMs shows only 1 or more days of active-duty service (a) between 2 Aug 1990 and 30 Nov 1995, AND (b) after 11 Sep 2001 – or qualifying SELRES service during either period.
The dual KLMs he’s wearing show service during early 1991 in designated parts of SWA or offshore waters, so if they’re legit he served there during that period of time. However, one or more breaks in service is also a possibility. If he had one or more breaks in service, he might not be retirement eligible today.
why was general macarthur fired?
Apparently @89 is either naive or is a bit confused (or both). He’s offering an economic/political reason for people to refuse military service. Conscientious objectors oppose war on moral grounds, not for political or economic reasons.
Political opposition to a particular war is not conscientious objection. Ditto moral opposition to a particular conflict. Neither qualifies.
Perhaps in a decade or so, when he’s started shaving regularly, @89 will comprehend the distinction – along with how the world really works.
I’m not holding my breath, though. Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is permanent.
@93: for doing exactly what these dumbasses are doing – e.g., speaking out publicly, as a member of the military, against policy previously made by his superiors (the POTUS).
Are you really that ignorant of history, or are you just too stupid (or too lazy) to look that up yourself?
Hondo, vnwarprotestor is too lazy to look it up himself. I thought he was already outed as a phony for poor use of English, punctuation and grammar, meaning he’s a byblow of the current education system – functionally illiterate.
Definitely NOT anyone in MY generation.
Also, he’s an asshole.
Ex-PH2: almost certainly true.
Still, target practice is fun – especially when the target is so deserving. (smile)
Very true, Hondo.
Whether or not this gets ramped up, this is a basic summary of responses to involvement in Syria by various countries concerned: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23849587
I was just about to blog this when I saw this here. Thank goodness! I don’t think I would have kept my bearing in the face of such asshattery!
The discussion on Facebook is even worse – by people who don’t understand the military and have never served. These guys are not brave. They’re violating the UCMJ by posting political protests in full uniform, and they’re cowards, because they refuse to show their faces. You want to protest? Do so. Not in uniform, but in your own clothes, showing your face.
At #89 souces and links please? #93, do some looking in some history books! You can read ? Can you understand what are actually reading not what you want the book to mean? Joe