Marine headbutts protester at PI
1AirCav69 sends us a link from WTOC in Savannah, Georgia that describes an incident outside the gate at the USMC base at Parris Island, SC when a drill sergeant confronted one of the protesters, a former Marine who was wearing his DI cover;
He pulls up and he walks up to me and says, ‘Are you Ethan Arguello?’ I said ‘yes’, and he said ‘I spoke to you on the phone yesterday’ and I said ‘yes’. He said ‘I know I told you not to wear that campaign cover,'” said Arguello.
Arguello said he wore the hat to represent active duty Marines who can’t protest.
[…]
“And then, all of a sudden, the drill sergeant, he just head butted Ethan’s hat right off his head,” said protester Monique Puffinberger. “He grabbed it, got in his Jeep and drove off.”
In another WTOC article, they report that Arguello was protesting the president’s decision to swap terrorists for Bowe Bergdahl.
The group says it’s anti-American what Obama did, exchanging five terrorists for one traitor, and they won’t tolerate it.
“I hold every member of Al Qaeda directly responsible for the death of each of my brothers and the injuries also,” said Arguello. “Therefore, the release of those five is essentially the release of these five murderers of my brothers.”
While I agree with Arguello’s protest and his right to do so, I also agree with the Marine who head-butted him. The uniform is an inappropriate medium with which to protest. It was inappropriate when IVAW did it, and it was inappropriate for Arguello do it. I think it’s especially irresponsible to wear it for the event at a Marine Corps Training post in front of all of those impressionable recruits.
I know the name of the guy who head-butted Arguello and by all reports he’s a good Marine, so I guess when a Marine sergeant major tells you not to wear your DI cover, unless you want to get head-butted, you shouldn’t wear it.
ADDED thanks to ChipNASA: Meet Sgt. Maj. Paul Archie. Yeah, that’s not a head-butt;
WTOC-TV: Savannah, Beaufort, SC, News, Weather
Category: Marine Corps
The only comment I have beyond “Amen” is that I don’t think those recruits are allowed anywhere near where that took place.
Nope! You see that particular area only twice. Once when you enter, once when you leave. Other than that you’re cut off from civilization as you know it for 13 weeks.
Christ, I went throuh that place so fast on the way out headed to my AIT that all I got was a glimps, I don’t even REMEMBER comming through it 13 weeks earlier
“I’ve done told you once not to do that.” There is usually not second time with a Sargent Major.
Especially when said Sergeant Major is a Marine. 🙂
Since it was off-base its geographically impossible for a recruit to anything. Parris Island is really a damn island, with a long causeway connecting it to the mainland.
One other thing that is a bit different is that Marines arent allowed to wear thier campaign covers off base, period. You have to have a diferent cover to wear once you hit the gate. Big no no.
Old Dog…a slight correction. They wear their Campaign Covers off base and better have them on when going through the gate. I worked on the Island, The Naval Hospital, and MCAS. Saw them all the time in the hospital with them on and driving in town. They cannot make personal stops in utilities unless to get fuel or drop kids off at school or day care. Things have changed, or changed back since I retired in 07 and didn’t know it.
Cav,
The Naval Hospital would be a legit, as they often go there escorting recruits.
The regs in my day were that when you left the gate you put on a different cover. You would put the smokey back on when you enter the base. It was a big no no to wear a smokey outside a recruit training environment. The cammies regs were basically what you said. Gas and Go. When I was a Co First Sgt my Bn Sgt Major ( who later was Sgt Major of the Marine Corps, Carlton Kent) caught one of my new Hats wearing his cammies and his campaign cover at Churches Chicken in Oceanside. fallout from the blast was felt in San Clemente.
Cav,
you are correct, at least when I was in from 1988-2000 by Marine Corps Regulations DI’s would put on appropriate cover when exciting the depot.
Raw footage.
http://www.wtoc.com/story/25711850/marine-turns-himself-in-after-protest-altercation-on-parris-island
THAT was not a headbut. The hat and his head touched and it FELL OFF and he grabbed it.
/Assault, maybe. Bullshit charges. YES.
If that is what they call A&B in South Carolina that is lame. That is just a Good Ole American Debate.
If this guy Arguello was indeed a Marine, then he knows damned well that when a sergeant major tells you to do something, he fuckin’ A means it.
I’m sympathetic as hell to his cause, but there’s no need for that kind of grandstanding. SgtMaj. was in the right here. Unfuck yourself and carry on.
The SGM should have been arrested. He assaulted someone, which sets a bad example for junior Marines. He should have taken the high road now hes been arrested and ruined his career. He will be relieved of command. Bad example if he wanted to have a big WEE WEE contest he should have just pulled out his WEE WEE and shaken it around instead of trying to have a verbal confrontation.
“The SGM should have been arrested. He assaulted someone, which sets a bad example for junior Marines.”
First of, a bad example for young Marines? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!! That’s funny right there.
Second, could you please point to the exact time reference where he assaulted someone? I and almost everyone else here seem to have missed it.
Hey Brother what are “junior Marines”?…When I left PI My DI just called me MARINE…now what he called me the prior 13 months I refuse to utter here 🙂
daltonRanger — 1) you have obviously not ever dealt with a Marine Corps SGM. 2) I don’t believe he can be relieved of command because he doesn’t have one — everyone knows SGMs are “in” command but they don’t have one. You said he should have been arrested and then you say he has been arrested — which is it? As for not having a verbal confrontation, I looked at both of them — I have a feeling the SGM could have taken that guy and wiped the street with him with one hand tied behind his back.
daltonRanger says: Bahahahahhaah,r u on meth,dude what headbutt?That turd guy Arguello is a total douche,we never protest in uniform,before during or after our enlistment period.
Just looked up the South Carolina law — had the SGM been the aggressor physically, then yes, he could be arrested for a misdemeanor but, Arguello was the agressor in the beginning and although it was just a finger poke, HE poked the SGM first. The SGM never touched his body — he grabbed the hat and exited the incident area. Had he been guilty of assault — I am sure the officer would not have permitted him to leave.
Campaign cover is not a prop.
Wear the entire uniform or not at all.
He shouldn’t have tried to use his “surprised face” when the senior NCO stopped.
He had been warned.
And I don’t care he did not have his cover on.
He was not amused….
And that was a headfake, and the former DI fell for it.
The entire uniform is a no go also, there are times when certain non active duty persons are authorized to wear the uniform and apolitical protest isn’t one of them.
Besides There is a strict critera when and where a campaign cover is authorized. Its NEVER authorized for leave or liberty.
about the Campaign Cover, you and I are both proud owners of multiple ones, but you and I both know that onve we were no longer in that billet, we had to remove our beloved DI attention getters, and don the headgear of our new billet.. while we would love to parade around in the beloved cover, it was only authorized for reunions whether we were AD, RET, or HDV. Mine rest in a glass case, I have purchased a “Replacement” that I wear to reunions, and functions where I am allowed to.
Put a sock in it Coldiron. No one here wants to hear anything from your cock holster.
Should have given them some pugil sticks and let them go at it.
*popcorn*
That is if MCRD still even does that training any longer. This is Obummer military, maybe they don’t?
Disrespecting a Sergeant Major is like tugging on Superman’s cape. No good can come from it.
Hey Marine, got a story to tell or something to protest? Fine. Don’t disrespect the uniform or those who wear it. Douche move. You’re lucky all you lost was your hat.
I saw no headbutt. In fact, I think he did good by securing that piece of Marine uniform off the ground. Nothing else to see.
It looks to me like some jackass trying to get his five min of fame….but pissing off a SgtMajor would not be my recommended course of action.
I’ll be interested to see how this plays out…
He’s lucky he didn’t throat punch him or rip his larynx out with his bare hand.
/YES, SERGEANT MAJOR
As a seasoned veteran of many punk rock shows where I had to both play guitar AND get people off of my stage, I have employed MANY a headbutt (also, a kick from a steel toed Doc Marten).
This was, in no way, a headbutt. And I say this as a man who has delivered many, many, many, many, MANY headbutts that would make Zidane’s famous headbutt look like a joke.
Unfortunately, If the individual was no longer active duty, the Sgt Major fucked up in accosting him and trying to steal his property.
It seems it was more about the “smokey” than anything. I’ve seen DIs go batshit over an implied insult to “the hat”
He should have known better especially since a police officer was there and a camera.
Sir, are you aware that EVERY stich of clothing that is given a retiree, or an honorable discharged service member actuallu belongs to that service member’s branch of service, that’s why anyone recieving an other than Honorable discharge has to either produce or pay for items that were issued. and ANY service member, retiree, or Veteran WILL never allow these Items to be worn in such a way as to Disrespect the branch of service they stand for…in other words that DI’s Cover that you call a “hat” was not dufflebag’s…it was the United States Marine Corps…Period
I guess Arguello didn’t think Sergeant Major Archie was serious since he didn’t use knife hands.
It was a better story when it was a headbutt, though.
I was disappointed at the lack of knife hands as well. The volume was impressive, though, as befits a couple of DIs screaming at each other.
You’re not authorized to take knife hands off base. You have to store them in the armory.
Knife Hand Control Act of 1995 was passed while Bill Clinton was in office due to how scary and threatening it was to the public at large.
My observations and thoughts: There was no head-butt. There was no assault. There was a Sgt Maj that was big enough and mean enough that I think I pee’d a little just watching him on video. You have a former Marine that was trying his best to not make eye contact with said Sgt Maj, because I think he would have cried if he had, and a cop telling the Sgt Maj not to do something and when he got back in his Jeep, he told the cop, who was following him to the Jeep to “get away from me” and said officer rightfully complied (she wasn’t do dummy).
Conclusion: Former Marine was wrong, got corrected, and that should be the end of it. If former Marine wants to push it, to try and get the Sgt Maj in trouble; he’s dumber than I thought.
Can a Sgt. Major even get into trouble? I thought they distributed trouble and sucked it up like a black hole…
Well, it depends if any of the LEOs around there want to “slap the bull”. You saw that cop back off when he said “get away from me”. They all know.
Since it was basically a screaming match and the guy got his property ( campaign cover) back I see no charges being pressed.
Being that the Sgt Major was actually supporting the actions of POTUS I dont see his command wanting to push the issue.
“Being that the Sgt Major was actually supporting the actions of POTUS…”
You sure about that?
What I saw was an active duty Marine squaring away a former Marine on an issue of inappropriate use of military gear.
Squaring Marines away is the basic duty of, well, all other Marines, but especially SNCOs.
I head butt my kids harder than that.
(they’re bigger than me, it’s my last resort.)
I totally agree with Old Trooper. (don’t faint, I often do, although it’s rarely reciprocated….) 😉
That’s not true!!! I reciprocate the support when I agree. Honest 🙂
Arguello was discharged from the Corps, not sure if he received a honorable or not though. He has had a charge of Domestic Violence against him about 2 years ago. You can look him up on mugfaces for Beaufort County SC
The Sgt Maj has now been arrested and is in the Beaufort County detention center awaiting a bond hearing
That’s unacceptable. Hopefully the little assmaggot that pressed the charges will have his ass handed to him for being such a dickhead.
He clearly committed theft in front of a police officer on camera.
Title of SGT MAJ doesn’t excuse theft.
Maybe less red bull, more controlled breathing exercising?
No actually the SGM did NOT steal anything…the Campain Cover this dufflebag was wearing is still the property of the USMC, Honorably discharged Veterans, and Retiree’s are allowed to retain thier uniforms, accounterments, and Gear that is deamed to be “Not in Demand” they can wear these Items only on occassions that are on the Approved list they are given on thier seperation, they are also told that at any time the USMC may require the return of said Items. the SGM required that this “used to be” marine (notice no caps) return his Campaign Cover, there was NO assault, there was no theft, a serving Marine who knew the rules better than that dufflebag marine, took property of the USMC away fron someone not authorized to have it…Period
Why would you not listen to a Sgt. Major? Especially a Marine one.
SHIT HAPPENS when you blatantly ignore Senior NCOs, as Arguello will likely soon find out!
Because you’re a civilian?
Also just because somebody is a high enlisted Marine doesn’t mean they can’t be batshit crazy derp ball either.
you Hit that on the head…I’m living Proof….my Psych and I have come up with a working theory on who pushed Humpty Dumpty and WHY !!! I love the VA
See, here’s my problem with the whole thing. Arguello obviously called SGM Archie for permission to wear his hat and the SGM told him ‘no’, but Arguello wore it anyway…so why would he even call?
I am going to disagree.
It is not obvious to me that Arguello called Archie. Why would Arguello call him? To seek permission for something that Archie could not approve and in fact had no jurisdiction over?
I think it is just as plausible, if not more so, that Archie called Arquello after seeing him previously to tell him not to wear the hat.
Other reports indicate this was a continued conversation and the former DI was not getting the “message”.
Gitarcarver..so not only is he a SgtMaj, and a damn good one, he’s psychic and predicted the histrionic wife abuser was going to be there with his cover on. Maybe in Gitarcarver world but not in the real world. I know the SgtMaj was called….I have friends in weird places.
He may have been called. In the end it doesn’t matter because Archie has no authority to decide whether the guy can wear the hat or not.
I have no doubt Archie is a fine Marine. One look at his record shows that.
His record may alleviate or be taken into consideration if there is some sort of punishment from the Marines or legal authorities, but his record does not excuse his actions.
Archie had a dream career, Honor Man from boot camp, meritoruiosly promoted every rank through SSgt (E-6) Embassy Duty, DI Duty ( every billet in a recruit company, DI school Instructor, Instructor at OCS and topped off with combat tours with infantry units.
The guy was on his way. Possibly this one aw-shit will have him retire before 30
Since the Marines are getting a new Commandant, I think they just found their new Sergeant Major as well.
I’m not sure about the Marines, but I remember way-back-when that the Army reg for wear of the uniform (AR 670-1) once stated that it was illegal for people either not in or no longer in the Army to purchase and/or wear official Army headgear. I remember that because I thought it was kinda stupid and there was no way on God’s green earth to enforce it.
I’d be willing to bet that the Marines at least seriously frown on unauthorized personnel wearing their Drill Instructor hats. I think the CSM just prived that…
Out.
Funny you mention that: I was in a shop at Fort Bliss because I needed a cover for the field. As a civilian contractor, there was no way in HELL I was going to buy a boonie hat that’s issued to the Army since I didn’t earn it. And since they didn’t have a Marine boonie hat, I went with a basic green ball cap.
I just watched the raw video, HEADBUTT, MY ASS! If it were Army Personnel, I’d say Bravo Zulu to the Sergeant Major for upholding AR 670-1, and I don’t blame the USMC Sgt Maj ONE BIT, real Vets DON’T wear Military apparel with civilian attire at protests like that, that’s what fleabag hippies do!! Arguello obviously wants to be an attention whore, and I think he’s doing quite well at being one!!
Arguello said he wore the hat to represent active duty Marines who can’t protest.
It’s a Campaign Cover, NOT A HAT!
If you didn’t earn the right to wear it, DON’T WEAR IT TO A PROTEST! You’re being as stupid as the guys who get a SEAL Budweiser over their crotch to honor them.
And if you did earn it, you’d know better than to wear it like that.
Finally, if the Sergeant Major says you’re wrong, you’re wrong. If you didn’t learn that during your time in the Corps, you’re stupider than the average Recruit.
ADDENDUM: (Since I can’t edit). According to the article, I see that Arguello was a DI. But my opinions still stand.
Please.
Just because you can devil dog Marines while in and act like a jackass doesn’t mean you’re right doing that nonsense to civilians exercising their rights.
SGT MAJ should grow up and he was totally wrong in this instance acting like a complete jerkbag in a very unprofessional manner.
I would submit that wearing a uniform item by itself to a protest is a sign of jackassery as well.
Except said jackkass behavior is lawful.
Theft, however, isn’t.
I thought he got the Cover back. If he didn’t, why wasn’t the man arrested then?
I don’t know. I wasn’t there.
Shows him driving off with it.
Just because you’ve recovered said property doesn’t negate what occurred.
He did in front of a police officer. How stupid.
Why was this bunch of dorks protesting outside a Marine base?
If they wanted to make a statement, why were they not up north at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?
More tourists could see it up there.
Couldn’t afford bus fare from SC to D.C.?
He’s doing more than most.
Although he could have been more effective and more sensitive to the Corp’s regulation regarding active duty/reserve uniform policies, I’m glad he’s mad enough to do something at all.
Yep.
I just finally got to see the video too. A couple of things. I agree with the protestors reasons – I don’t agree with how Arguello handled it. While trying to give respect to those Marines lost in combat, he disrespected the Military as a whole by unauthorized wear of his cover and provoking actions.
Assault? Not a chance. A jury will see the video and laugh it off. Also, if things were so out of control and “unlawful”, why didn’t the cops who were standing there try to difuse the situation? That’s a question a good defense lawyer will ask too.
Out.
I don’t agree with how Archie handled it.
Despite his long and distinguished service, Archie does not have the right to attempt to deprive a person of their First Amendment rights. Archie can disagree with Arguello all he wants, but when you have people trying to control what can express or not express, that is against the very foundations of the Constitution which Archie swore to uphold.
Also, if you listen to the video, the female cop is telling Archie to step back, but he continues to advance slightly or maintain his ground.
We can say that morally and under the ethos of the military that Arguello was wrong. I won’t argue that point.
Archie, on the other hand, was wrong legally. His battery on Arguello and the theft of the hat / cover is illegal. Whether people agree with his actions or not, we are still (hopefully) a nation of laws and as Arguello was not violating the law while Archie was, it is proper at this time that Archie is the one in legal trouble.
He wasn’t depriving the ex-Marine of anything, except his cover. Which he shouldn’t have been wearing if I understand what I’ve read here.
Big difference in “shouldn’t have” been wearing it and something being illegal.
Using Archie’s logic I could go around ripping Surplus field jackets off of every poser, bum, hipster and protester I see.
The cover was part of the protest – part of his expression.
When Archie removed the cover and took it with him, he deprived Arguello of his right to express himself in a legal and lawful manner.
Archie tried to justify stealing Arguello’s cover by saying he was “retrieving” Government property. He was trying to bullshit the cops. He spent 4 years on the Drill Field. He fully knows that any DI that successfully finishes his tour allowed to retain one of his covers as a memento. Not to mention Primary Marksmanship Instructors get them. Campaign covers can be purchased from the makers or surplus stores also. I have 2 campaign covers from my 2 tours on the drill field sittong on my desk as I type this. They are MINE, not Government property.
SgtMaj Archie was not treading on anyone’s rights. He only asked the dirtbag to take off the Campaign Cover. Arguello used words and body language to charge the situation and then cried wolf when his punk card got pulled. Arguello said that he called the SgtMaj the day before to ask about wearing the Campaign Cover to the protest and was told not to but decided to go against the answer he was given. As a Marine I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that Arguello, the dirtbag that he is, knew the SgtMaj would ride out to see if this Marine was in-fact stupid enough to wear the cover anyway. Arguello intentionally drew the attention of the SgtMaj to get his 15 min of fame, however it backfired dirtbag, the SgtMaj will be remembered for defending the honor of the Marine Corps while people say, “who was that dirtbag that started this crap anyway”.
End state is he will have all the attention he ever wants.
My gut feeling is this was a “special” former DI.
The Sgt Major will be remembered as someone who might have beeen assigned to higher billets or even Sgt Major of the Marine Corps if he didn’t try to be Billy Bad Ass and steal someone’s property. I’m betting the CO of PISC and ERR is looking for the Sgt Major’s replacement right now.
Who wants to bet that Sgt Major Archie ran out and did this all on his own without touching bases with his CO or base legal?
If he has to get a smooch from the CDR to go unfoxtrot a former Marine then the Corps is doomed. There may need to be some public platitudes but then, back to forging Marines.
Thing is, not even commandant of Marine Corp can “unfoxtrot” a “former” Marine because it is outside of his/her jurisdiction.
Just because he has the rank and think he is doing something right does not make it legal (especially the part where he took his cover). UCMJ and/or other regulations does not apply to former non-retired Marines.
Good initiative, bad judgment.
Archie removed and stole the cover. The cover was part of the expression of the protest. Archie had no right to touch, remove and take the cover. None. In taking the man’s cover, he tread on his First Amendment rights.
Secondly, there is no indication that Arguello called Archie. All we know is that the men spoke on the phone. Why would Arguello call Archie to “get permission” for something that Archie could not control, had no jurisdiction over, and whose “approval” or “disapproval” means nothing to a civilian?
Ok, SGTMAJ.
I know we don’t devil dog out in town in cammies. I know we wear a cover on our grape when out doors too!
Good to go?
What a dickbutt for theft from another Marine. I think we found out the Marine who’s been stealing all the gear in the Corps…….
Sgt Maj Archie is well known in the Corps, many fear him. I remember hearing about him when he was a 1stSgt for 2/8. I see he has not mellowed at all. The man is not someone to cross.
8th Marines always have colorful 1st SGTs.
Now it’s beginning to make sense. While I was in More Than Duty ours made us push in front of the BTN CMD without a second thoughts.
Looking back at the story I see that Sgt Major Archie and Arguello had a phone conversation and Archie told Arguello that he shouldnt wear a DI cover.
I’m not sure why there was contact between the two.
My take is that.
1. Arguello has a right to protest or voice his opinion.
2. Arguello no longer falls under the UCMJ, and has no obligation or legal responsibility to follow instructions given by Military personnel.
3. While certainly within his rights to wear a part of a uniform as long as he wasn’t claiming unearned medals or trying to fraudulently obtain financial or material compensation, his wearing a campaign cover was tasteless.
4. Sgt Major Archie used piss-poor judgement in seeking out Arguello and his group with the intent to illegally take his property.
5. Sgt Major Archie violated military regulations by placing himself in the middle of a political protest by wearing his uniform.
6 Sgt Major Archie violated Marine Corps Uniform regulations by (1) wearing the utility uniform in public (2) not wearing a cover.
7 Sgt Major Archie attempted to steal private property.
Sgt. Maj. let him keep his head so it’s all good.
Yeah, well, he wasn’t wearing the full uniform. Does it matter? You betcha. Remember this?
http://patriotsforamerica.ning.com/forum/topics/military-court-says-it-s-okay-that-marine-wore-his-uniform-in-gay?xg_source=activity
Damn you…
FUTURE GAY PORN
SARGE: Take off that hat!!
SUBSERVIENT GAY MALE: ( with a lisp)
Make me you big bad Sarge!!!
boom chikka bow wow,,,
It gets worse. When I googled ‘gay porn marine uniform’ a hit came up for an actual video on some X site where one can see the gayrine in action. And, NO, I didn’t.
Removing someone’s hat without their permission constitutes a battery, an unwanted touching. No head butt is required. There was no theft b/c there was no intention to deprive the hat’s owner of the hat permanently. If the cops made no arrest on the spot, then it will be up to the victim to press charges. Tough call on that. It could get ugly for the AD Marine, what with the possibility of criminal and civil actions, not to mention what the Marines have in store for him. Too bad they just didn’t agree to meet somewhere and pound the shit out of each other privately.
(I did not see the video. Were they off the base? I dunno. My browser wouldn’t allow it. It’s very sensitive to violence I guess.)
1 They were off base
2. Arguello wasn’t breaking any laws, even though him wearing the campaign cover is very tacky if not disrespectful in my book.
3. The Sgt Major overstepped his bounds and showed extremely poor judgement in deciding to seek out and confront Arguello
4. The Sgt Major put himelf in a position where he was detained for assault ( which in my opinion he wasn’t guilty of, but law vary) and theft ( which he did).
5. The Sgt Major disobeyed An LEOs order to back away, and disrepected them.
Two attention whores, one of whom should have really known better and will end up having to retire.
Air Cav, it was right off base and the Port Royal Police did not arrest the SgtMaj because he committed no crime. They advised the histrionic EX-Marine that if he wished to file charges he could. The baby blue EX-Marine did just that. (Semper Fi Mac!) Once SgtMaj found out he turned himself in and was released without bail.
A WTOC article says:
“Police said he assaulted former Marine Ethan Arguello and drove off with his drill instructor hat.”
(http://www.wtoc.com/story/25711850/marine-turns-himself-in-after-protest-altercation-on-parris-island)
Are you really saying that assault is not a crime? Or that the police should go running after a person who committed a third degree assault?
Most times police do not chase or seek to apprehend minor assaults preferring to wait until charges are filed.
Nice Jeep.
http://www.thestate.com/2014/06/06/3491632/parris-island-senior-advisor-charged.html
Nice orange suit. Thats what happens when you overestimate your authority.
Well, I’ll be damned.
Released without bail. I live here, I know the Magistrates, it ain’t going nowhere, not in this town. The wife beater’s gonna lose, not the MCRD SgtMaj. Trust me. Also, most of all the cops around here are former Marines along with most of the Magistrates.
Anyone who has served in the military is subject to the UCMJ and there is no state of limitations either… (read the contract you signed when you joined) or the actual UCMJ should suffice before starting falsehood and sounding like a butt hurt moron. Plus if you actually paid attention to the video SgtMaj did not assault him. The so called “headbutt” was incidental contact actually caused by the idiot in the cover. By idiot I mean idiot and he embarrasses me tip be associated with him. You don’t wear that cover to speak for AD Marines especially if you don’t know if every hat agrees with what you are doing. I agree with the rights to and the grounds for the protest but don’t make it look like Marine Corps Drill Instructors are protesting the commander in chief. I really can’t express how stupid Aguello is for doing that. It reminds me of something I would have done as a freshman in high school. Nate Dean peters should stay in his box and not reveal that he just retired which means he has at least 20 years in and doesn’t know he is still subject to the UCMJ plus it’s Staff NCO not Senior NCO, SOLDIER! Stay in your box soldier. This id’s Marine talk
D,
You are lost.
The UCMJ does not apply to former members of the military AFTER the leave active dity.
Senior Staff NCO is a simple expression, not a title.
J.O.D., you are right and wrong on that one, as a Staff NCO (E-9) who had to spend his last year in a JAG office, there are times that a retiree or Honorably Discharged Veteran may be subject to the UCMJ, and as a staff NCO yourself you know that we were not “Given” any article of clothing we were issued it. whether we are “permitted” to retain these Items or return them is solely up to whoever’s in charge at the moment, now we all know that you are allowed to keep your “KIT” when you get out Honorably, that is not the same as the Government signing a statement that they are giving you these Items. these Items are and always will be property of the branch of service you came from, and the US Government as a whole. I was given a list when I retired that stated when and where I was allowed to wear my Class A, Class B, and utility uniforms, and in the year that I served as a JAG Staff NCO I processed hundreds of discharges, and that section was in every one…oh by the way, “Partial wear of the uniform” is punishable by 2 years incarceration, and reduction in rank to E-1, also you are NOT authorized to wear any uniform, or uniform Item (See Above) in any Political Function that you are not representing your Branch of Service, or the United States. and until the age of 75 you are subject to recall into active service for the good of the respective branch…(now I know that 75 is a long time when you can retire at 37. and after cousulting the UCMJ and a JAG lawyer, it only applies to Senior NCO’s and Flag Officers in certain fields every one else it’s 60 of course health being taken into consideration) However and anyway if dufflebag was assaulted by SGM Archie, I could not tell by the Video, I didn’t see it…I have been Personally assaulted by the Present CSM USMC while he was a Gunny and I still proudly wear… Read more »
Old dog you are incorrect again I instruct this topic UCMJ applies to him. staff nco is however a title and senior nco is what they are called in the army. Do you have any military experience or do you chime in to hear yourself talk.
Please explain to me how the UCMJ applies to anyone who is not in the military?
Yes I have Military experience.
Read above comment from Greg Harris
Btw I love auto correct… NOT!
First and formost, I agree with what they are protesting ,I how ever dont agree with protesting a training base or any base for that matter if you want to protest any place go to the man who made the horrible decision to trade 5 terorist for one coward .now as far as for the rest every one knows expecialy a former Di ,you are not permited to wear the campain cover for one while out of uniform or protest in any of the gov issued gear ie he dont own it as its issued so should have been turned in ,2 hes not in the Marines any more so not allowed to wear it at all anymore , if he has any affilyation with Marines ie pay bennifits then he can be ucmjd .I watched the vid and sgt major didnt touch the man he stood there with his arms crossed the protester leaned into him and cover fell off and sgt confenscated it .and then left thats not theft if the man dont have the right to wear it as he was no longer a Marine as you hear him say in vid by that i mean he should have had to turn in such gear so sgt major retrieved the gear that wasnt turned in when protester left Marines ,hes lucky sgt major didnt take more than that I say that man has honor and pride in his branch . if anyone deserves mass respect its sgt major I say oooohhhhrrraaaa sgt major and Semper Fi. what a disgrace to the Marines hes suppost to be protesting for wearing gear to protest and dressed in civies ? clearly in vid he said im not a Marine anymore ,so he did this as a PR stunt period . any branch should get offended by this mans disrespect to uniform and have the sgt majors back .I cant believe more Marines didnt stop and get into his shit ,im former Army and it offends me that he did that to the uniform .i have seen a few army post… Read more »
1. The individual was not on base.
2. Campaign Covers are not ALL Base Propery items. They are given to DIs as mementos when finishing a tour or can be bought at surplus stores or through a manufacturing company.
by that you mean he can protest for Marines by wearing a memento and potraying hes a DI by wearing it. he should not be protesting at a training base or any other he should be protesting obama the man responsible for this mess in first place . im suprised more real Marines didnt take offense to how a man wearing a campain cover in civies .im greatfull sgt major may have saved that man from real Marines that would get offended and done worse to him .btw sgt major never touched him look at vid in slow mo the protester leaned to close to him and fake cover fell off .so he took it as he knows that this man isnt a Marine any more and you clearly hear him in vid saying so . but i think sgt major showed real composer when man assulted him with the lid ,he got into his jeep and left and also he was in hin uniform because he was reporting to base as far as his cover he wasnt wearing it as you are not suppose to wear in a car or in a protest .
Ok I don’t care… if you have served as long as SgtMaj Archie has and you disrespect his Corps at his base you should have been head butted. He however did NOT head butt him.
Thats where Archie went full ‘tard
It’s not HIS base or HIS Corps. It happened off base and involved someone he had absolutely no authority over.
Thats why he had to pose in an orange jump suit.
He isnt above the law.
Frankly people like him embarass the Corps with their arrogance.
ppl like him embarass Marines? lol but a man in civies wearing a campain hat so ppl would think he was a di dosent ? haha
Arguello is a dumbass for wearig a DI cover, but he is a Civilian and not an active duty Marine.
So it sounds like you believe it would be ok for him to have been wearing an American flag as a toga and disrespect it all since he has the right to do so on grounds that he is a civilian. Once again he does fall under UCMJ. But besides the technicalities this is a morality issue and him being a prior Marine and dill instructor at that is what grinds my gears.
i am with ya d.sgt major Semper Fi
My personal beliefs have nothing to do with the law.
once again please explain how the UCMJ pertains to a civilian.
Do you even know what first amendment is?…….
And no UCMJ does not apply, except if he is still under IRR, which i doubt.
That’s a bold statement bro. I guess you know the SgtMaj and his record? He turned himself in because the twit filed charges. Port Royal DIDN’T. I could file charges on you and have you arrested and placed in an orange jumpsuit. It wouldn’t make you guilty or an embarrassment to the Corps.
Yes I am well aware of Sgt Major Archie’s record. That is what makes his conduct so baffling. He held one of the prime billets in the Marine Corps, Sgt Major of MCRDPI/Eastern Recruiting Region.
This is a Marine who sits at the side of Generals and advises them on policy. He took it on himself to go out and throw himself in a political situation during duty hours and wearing his uniform.
He put himself in a situation to face civil charges for assault and theft.
Piss poor judgement.
Yes he is a fucking embarassment.
It’s every Marines base and Corps, Arguello was disrespecting it.
And knew better.
Exactly, I’ve been waiting for someone to say this all along. What Archie did was hurt the Corps more than help it. Arrogant @sshole who forgot to turn it off once he left the gate.
At the end of the day, this is why we tell our troops NOT to engage with protestors.
No matter how respectful, intelligent, etc., that you are interacting with them, they will use it against you.
Even if you are “correct” in what you do or say, you are still wrong and it will be used against you.
There is no winning in dealing with protestors, you will lose in one fashion or another and they will use it against you.
Not only will they use it against you, they will use it to defame the military and the country because that’s what happens when you engage protestors.
Bingo,
You win the prize.
I guess it was wrong of me to have the Fire Dept test thier equipment and accidentally point the water cannon at the protesters in El Centro…oops
( Yes…That was me)
Wow, the comments on here are interesting. I detect a lot of old resentment to SgtMajs. Well, “in the old days” we got punched by Drill Sergeants, (Army, Ft.Jackson 68′), sworn at, kicked, left in “Front lean and rest position” for hours. Gee, we just did it. I didn’t like it but just figured it was part of the deal. Did it make us better soldiers/Marines? I don’t know. I was with the MCRD PI SgtMaj, (NO CAR) and “Big Knife Johnson” the SgtMaj of MCAS. He was green side until MCAS and a survivor of 1/9 in Vietnam. Look it up if you don’t know. We were drinking and all “debating” that very issue. None of us came up with the definitive answer.
In my work on PI I saw “The New Corps”. Well, according to at least 90% of the DI’s I came in contact with, they thought it sucked. They could be kicked out for even swearing at a recruit. Hell, recruits trying to get out heard more swear words from me then they did their DI’s. Now, if a recruit was really sick or I felt his fellow Marines would be in jeopardy in combat, no problem. Gave them panties and sent them home. What I see here is a SgtMaj with a great record asking a DI who, well beats wives, to not wear his old cover on protest. Not to NOT PROTEST, just don’t wear the cover. What’s our “Domestic Violence” DI do…just the opposite. Semper Fi, fuck you SgtMaj. Old Corps against New Corps? I report, you decide. Me, I’m glad I’m off the New Marine Corps Island.
What I see is a very senior SNCO who decided to go out of his way confront a civilian off base, because he didn’t like that the civilian was wearing a piece of a uniform.
He has zero authority to demand that a civilan do anything, much less “confiscate” anything. When I was active duty I would see numerous bums outside the gates Of MCRD pushing shopping carts and wearing parts of military uniforms, some begging with signs saying they were Vets.
I hated seeing that but I had enough common sense to not stop my car and try to snatch the items from them.
Anyway the Sgt Major will have to answer for his actions to civil authorities and his superiors. I’m betting right about now he wishes he had had more self control.
Old Dog, all your points are clear, articulate, and make sense also. I also get you’re a been there done that guy. I get it that he should have left this sleeping dog lie, but I just can’t help support him knowing that the “protestor” wore that cover knowing or assuming he would end up in some sort of confrontation with Archie. I find it amusing that he also swore he’d be back the next day, and didn’t show. Just an itch, but I think he was out to get Archie, and Archie walked right into his L shaped ambush.
He pressed charges? what kind of “marine” presses charges because his cover got jostled off while he whined like a puppy?
(I know, the kind w a domestic. smh)
i clearly heard arguello say “im not a marine anymore” you cant tell me what to do.
my father served in the marine corps…he is now 72, he still says “once a marine, always a marine”.
that right there was telling.
“Arguello said he wore the hat to represent active duty Marines who can’t protest.”
One of the reasons military personnel are not supposed to wear their uniforms when taking part in political activity is precisely to AVOID the impression that they represent service members, generally. Arguello has admitted that not only was he wearing a part of a uniform improperly, but also for an improper purpose.
My sympathy with his overall cause notwithstanding, he was wrong to wear the cover, and wrong to pretend he represents active duty members.
For those who are complaining about the term “hat” instead of “cover”, understand that those who wear the campaign cover are often referred to as “hats.” It is a nickname and term of endearment. Stop losing sight of what happened because the SgtMaj called it a “hat.” Everyone who has ever served on the depot understands that. This protester seems to be a DI flunky who gained access to a cover before getting booted. So you are telling me that wouldn’t piss you off to see him parading around in it if, in fact, you earned it and had successfully done tours wearing it? This liberal bullshit is sickening, and the position of many is ridiculous. You may not agree with what the SgtMaj did, but you sure as hell want that guy defending you as opposed to the coward who stood face to face with him. Stop using terms like “abuse” and “assault” because you can justify them rather than using them because you believe that is what happened. Our nation needs more SgtMaj Archies, and less Sgt Arguellos. You may not like it, but you probably know it’s true!
I will bet there is history of trying to beat the SGT major or Archie had him standing tall in his office a few times too many. The c over was taken to check if it was stolen, then returned. Joe
I’m not sure if their paths would have crossed. I don’t know when Arguello got out, but Archie has only been in his billet for 3 1/2 Months. Any type of ass-chewing Arguello got would have been at Battalion or Regimental Level at most. Generally the MCRD/ERR Sgt Major dont get his hands dirty with DIs.
Sgt maj archie was my Battalion sgt maj a few years back. He definitely doesnt take crap and will stand his ground. All respect to him.
Ok, I gave my observations on the video, yesterday, but now I would like to give my observations on some of the comments I have been reading.
Yeah, it wasn’t illegal for him to wear his smokey lid in public.
Yeah, it was illegal for the Sgt Maj to take it.
The former Marine knows the deal on the uniform and what reaction he would get, it appears that he planned to get exactly that reaction. Then goes into drama queen mode for more attention. If he didn’t want his cover taken, he shouldn’t have worn it.
The former Marine is disrespecting all Marines by knowingly wearing the cover in a jacked up manner (wearing any part of the uniform in a protest is an insult to those that have worn the uniform with honor and the former Marine knows that, so he doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself), just like that other former Marine that was holding the American flag upside down while in uniform and was corrected by an off duty Marine, IIRC.
I don’t know why people want to pile on and see the Sgt Maj get arrested for stealing the cover, but I think that we have all gotten kinda soft in this country if we lose our minds over what looked like a current Marine squaring away a former Marine. As I said, before, it should have ended right there, but, it appears that too many people wet their diapers over it as though the Sgt Maj ran through the former Marine with a bayonet. THEN I would have said he was wrong; but this? Smh, much ado about nothing.
Some people appear to be pussies by calling it a “violent assault”. It wasn’t even an assault, unless you’re talking about the former Marine poking the Sgt Maj in the chest (I noticed that the Sgt Maj isn’t pressing charges for an obvious assault).
Dumb place to protest over this, should’ve picketed the local Congress critters office. Unless the point was to create drama like it has.
That was not a head butt…….idiots!!
How about the real issue. Quit worrying about petty stuff and debating which Marine was right or wrong, both were right and wrong in their own way. How about our commander in chief not getting congressional approval ,but just saying here’s your five terrorist back in trade now that your done getting all that op Intel from that pussy ass traitor so we can have him back…..should of planted c4 up their asses so we could blow them up after sending this brother killing traitor to a firing squad.
Ok, that wasn’t a head but. It appeared to be an accident when it fell off his head that then it was caught in mid air by the Sgt. Major who then left with it and it was later returned by law enforcement. Come on, the guy has a right to protest and to wear his campaign hat. He’s no longer active duty. The Sgt. major is trying to protect the image of the corps. The thing is that a whole lot of us agree with the Cpl. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. No harm no foul.
The problem here is there are entirely to many Senior Non-Coms in “All” branches that do not know their place on or off base. Not enough proper training and more ego fed. And yes I have been there.