Veterans for Peace at the Archives
Well, I’m back from my trip to the National Archives this morning and Vets For Peace still up there on the scaffolding. I asked three security guards separately if VfP been up there all night; one said he didn’t know, one said they had been up there all night and a third thought they were workers cleaning the building’s facade and didn’t know they were protesters until I told him.
In the After Downing Street post yesterday, they quoted some guy who said he’d seen their banner from over two miles away – dude had good eyes. I parked a block away and didn’t see the banner until I got to Constitution Avenue across the street from the Archives;
More pictures and video below the fold;
I needed a telephoto lens to even see them;
This is their support vehicle. Notice it’s so old, it still has “Impeach Nixon” stickers on it;
I’m sure Raoul recognizes the old hippy flashing me the peace sign in the front seat – but they all look alike to me.
The telephoto lens got me some good pictures of some of the guys up there, but I didn’t see matthis Chiroux who I was told was there;
Of course, I wanted to interview Matthis Chiroux so he can explain to me how he calls himself an “honorably discharged Afghanistan veteran” when he’s not been discharged from his eight-year commitment and how six days at a well-protected airbase to write a magazine article makes him an Afghanistan veteran. The Army certainly doesn’t think of him as an Afghanistan veteran judging by the ribbons he wore in the protest in New York last month;
That’s an Army Commendation medal on top, (from readers’ left to right, decending) an Army Achievement medal, a Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Service Medal, an Armed Forces Reserve Medal, Army Service Ribbon and an Overseas Service Ribbon. No medals for participation in a military operation outside of the US.
But, anyway, I didn’t see Chiroux and the two members of the support team didn’t want to talk about him. I asked, but they were too paranoid – thought I was with the NSA. Notice at the end of the video how quiet they get when a Forest Service helicopter flies by;
Of course, the one guy I talked to thought that “six seconds” in Afghanistan qualified him to be an Afghan vet. I’ve flown over Cuba several times, I guess that makes me a Spanish-American War vet.
I’m sure President Bush and Vice President Cheney have nothing to fear if these are the clowns that want to have them arrested. These fellas are about as sharp as a stick of butter. And Chiroux still leads my list of phony soldiers.
The Metro DC cops seem unaffected by the “occupation” – the only police presence I saw was at an auto accident on the corner. I guess they’re willing to let the moonbats freeze (they’re on the southside of the building and the wind is coming from the north).
UPDATE: One of the readers wrote to tell me that the guy I’m talking to in the video is Jim Goodnow, which explains the paranoia. Goodnow was the guy who said an evil Republican death squad headed by Karl Rove and funded by Haliburton burned up his POS Impeachment Bus when he was camped out in New Jersey. No wonder he jumped when the helicopter flew over us. Here’s another link with a picture of him. It turns out this “veteran” joined the Coast Guard in 1959 and got a medical discharge two years later…and he’s talking to me about “combat veterans”, for pete’s sake.
But the draft instituted during the Korea War was still in effect, and in 1959 Goodnow decided that if he had to serve he’d do it on his own terms. He went into the Coast Guard because he’d still be working at sea, and in that branch of the service “I felt that you train to save lives rather than taking lives.”
After getting a medical discharge two years later, Goodnow returned to Maryland and to commercial fishing. He didn’t have to worry about being shipped off to Vietnam, but he was opposed to the war and voted for Nixon in 1968 because of his vow to end the conflict.
I guess there were a lot of phony soldiers out there today.
Someone else also sends the ID of the three visible on the scaffolding;
• Bruce Berry VFP: 62, Minneapolis, MN, former SPC 4 Army, Viet Nam
• Fred Nagel VFP: 65, Rhinebeck, NY, former SPC 4 Army
• Jay Wenk VFP: 82, Woodstock, NY, former rifleman, 90th Infantry Div., WWII
Category: Antiwar crowd, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Liberals suck, Phony soldiers
Is that car a Peugeot? My theory is that the more bumper stickers you have on your car, the more normal a life you live. I could be wrong on that though.
Does hitting women constitute combat experience for the membership of VFP? That is the question I would ask these nitwits.
Outstanding video, Jonn!
Great video Jonn: I guess if they freeze, the DC cops can always send the St. Bernards up there to fetch them.
“Bad boys, bad boys,
what you gonna do,
what you gonna do,
when they won’t arrest you.
Bad boys, bad boys,
what you gonna do…”
How is it this group is allowed to put banners up and stand around on the scaffolding, most likely owned by a private company. You’d think there would be some liability concern on the part of the company. Wouldn’t they and those responsible for the security of the building want them gone?
Jonn wrote: I told the security guards I’d go home and get my rifle to get the VFP off of the scaffolding, but no takers.
Jonn: Too bad, missed opportunity on that.
Just to be contrary: Jonn, aren’t you giving these ridiculous yahoos the publicity they seek?
I honestly don’t know where line should be drawn, but one of them freezing and/or falling would be a starting point.
Martyrdom ain’t all bad, after all. So long as he doesn’t take someone with him.
Jonn wrote: I thought about that, but, you could say that about nearly every thing I’ve done here on these events. But, I’ve already debunked the Downing Street post that there was a huge interest from passerbys, that their banner was visible for miles and that they’ve enjoyed popular support – oh, and that they’ve not occupied anything except a few feet of otherwise unused scaffolding for the weekend.
Are we entirely certain this wasn’t an AARP meeting? Cause I just saw the ages of those involved at the ADS site, and, well, some of them may have been there at the signing of the Declaration.
(Jonn, the ADS site says the guy who runs the archives has said they will all be arrested.)
Jonn wrote: I’ll believe that when I see it. They’ve let them slide twice now – maybe if they’d arrested them back in March they wouldn’t be wringing their hands about it now.
thought about that, but, you could say that about nearly every thing I’ve done here on these events.
Point taken. I did say I dunno where to draw the line. Exposing or publicizing? Will they fade out, or shine on. There’s the rub. I’ll leave it with you.
Sorry, been re-reading some Shakespeare. [grin]
Jonn,
We’ll have to wait on the ID till tomorow morning.
The helicopter couldn’t get a good angle on these two so the facial recognition software isn’t a 100% positive match.
NSA and Department of Justice are sending over multiangle files via the secret internet as soon as the black vaults at each open Monday morning.
PS: National Reconnaissance Office guys report ArmySargeant has has a hair in the mole on her butt. Do we tell her?
Jonn,
Forgot to ask, you did reprogramm the chip in Goodie’s head using the RF proximity probe, right?
We really need that subliminal “get a haircut” command moved up in priority.
The car is an early-90s Mitsubishi Diamante. So those Nixon stickers were definitely affixed long after he was gone. Just wow.
How stupid, some people will hate for ever, I suspect the jerk in the car was in Canada while I was in Vietnam.
Hey Now, before you start dissing the Coasties, I’m a Coastie with an Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal… We go overseas and get shot at, too.
Research my friend…
Jonn wrote: No dissing involved. Um, some of my best friends are puddle jumpers. But there was no combat from 1959 – 1961. Especially involving the Coast Guard.
“Of course, the one guy I talked to thought that “six seconds” in Afghanistan qualified him to be an Afghan vet. I’ve flown over Cuba several times, I guess that makes me a Spanish-American War vet.”
You, too? I just got back from South Africa and Botswana, went looking for a Boer War Campaign ribbon and couldn’t find one.
In all fairness, if you actually bothered to read the post on the downing street blog you reference, you would learn why you were unable to view the banners from a distance.
It’s because the banner you are referencing in trying to dispute the accuracy of the downing street claim of it being visible for 2 miles WAS NOT THERE WHEN YOU VISITED! Your post was on the 16th-that banner was taken down on the 15th by law enforcement and security personnel.
I suggest you look at the first picture posted in the link you provide to the downing street blog-it is clearly not the same banner nor the same size as the ones you posted and then claimed were not visible from further away than across the street.
I think it’s more likely that you have very bad eyes and are unable to notice these glaring conflicts in your post as opposed to the other individual who most likely has average eyes. I’m looking at the actual banner being referred to (not the ones you erroneously posted) and it’s a damn big banner covering several upper level floors of scaffolding. I find it extremely hard to believe that that was not visible from further away than across the street.
You only serve to discredit conservatives such as myself if you are unable to even bother to thoroughly read liberal blogs in trying to discredit them with a response. Part of effectively discrediting the liberal bias is objectively pointing how they are clearly mistaken on issues of fact, however in this instance it is you who are mistaken in your facts due to carelessness.
How you can not even bother to notice the chronological date order or view the pictures on a site you link to is beyond me. The banner you refer to is not present in the picture you posted-how could you not notice that?
Its the Spec-4 mafia!! Go figures, not an Officer or NCO in the bunch, just these barely-out-of-private asshats. “Well, I WOULD have been an NCO… but they screwed up my paperwork. Ummm… yeah, thats it.”
“J”, clearly you are an asshat and belong on the scaffolding with them. So go grab your Vietnam era field jacket, and crawl slimy draft dodging ass up there with the rest of them.
[…] The left-wing veterans’ group called Vets for Peace has been occupying the National Archives in Washington DC. What, you didn’t hear that? Well, they’re occupying a scaffoldoutside the National Archives anyway. Well, sort of milling around on one level of a scaffold, to be precise. Nobody seems too anxious to evict them. Jonn Lilyea has pictures:Veterans for Peace at the Archives. […]
I knew a guy that got into the Coast Guard to beat the draft. His dad was a retired officer and pulled some strings. He was shipped off to Vietnam. They had coastal operations for a few weeks. This guy was freaked. They stopped in Hawaii on the way home and he did a spot on a radio show talking up the atrocities he witnessed (never left the ship). SPs busted in and arrested him since he also was AWOL after they docked. I don’t see him up there on the scaffold, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
I do believe the dude in the red hat is from Vermont. He was part of the group from some small town that wanted to arrest Bush and try him for war crimes. I remember seeing him on Malkinl’s page.
I made 2 trips to Iraq and one to Afghanistan. I was also in Kosovo before all this. These guys are an embarrassment. They have no idea what true evil really is.
I was in the North with the Pesmerga along the Iranian border. There was an elderly man that would wave at us in the morning as we drove by. One day he was not there. The next day his head was on a pole to tell the others in the area not to talk to us. I will pay for their ticket to go and meet with the people that did this so they can discuss geopolitical issues.
Wonder who paid for the banners? George Soros?
And the ever predictable Gray Pony Tail. Is that part of the uniform?
“Of course, the one guy I talked to thought that “six seconds” in Afghanistan qualified him to be an Afghan vet. I’ve flown over Cuba several times, I guess that makes me a Spanish-American War vet.”
I did two weeks TDY in San Juan. I still have flashbacks. Good times.
Yes the guy with the red beret does look like the one from a Vermont city Council who voted to impeach Bush. Of course aging White Men in Grey Pony tails with Red Berets all look alike.
Jonn wrote: You ain’t kiddin’. Here’s the guy you think it is, Kurt Daims
This is a guy I photographed in West Chester, PA (also a VfP member)
This is the guy who attacked my buddy Skye (a VfP member)
And this is from the VfP website banner.
It’s kind of like a uniform – and you can’t tell them apart.
And what’s with the “What part of Thou Shalt Not Kill do you not understand” sticker on the car?? My Torah says “Thou shalt not murder”… there’s a difference… try a dictionary to find out what…
Please don’t call them berets. Call them beanies. I doubt any of them jumped.
Raoul,
And they didn’t even buy me dinner. What gives?
That said, you guys are being jerks. None of us are actual threats to the government, surveillance is expensive, and you guys trying to tweak everyone’s paranoia isn’t very nice.
Like you, Jonn, refusing to identify yourself for five minutes. What’s wrong with “My name’s Jonn Lilyea, I’m a veteran who blogs from This Ain’t Hell, and I like to cover IVAW and VFP events. You might have seen me at Winter Soldier.”
Honey, vinegar.
Jonn wrote: Screw that. I wasn’t “tweaking” anyone’s paranoia. Not any more than the Forest Service flying their helicopter within view. If I wanted to make them paranoid, I would have flown a remote-controlled toy helicopter around them. That would have sent them into to the stratosphere of paranoia.
Would it help if a big crowd gathered down below and yelled, “Jump! Jump! Jump!?
November 17-18, 1965.
Harvest Moon. 43 years ago today.
G-d rest those many souls that so violently perished that day.
You may disagree with the silver-haired Veterans in the video, but grant them the dignity of respect. They’ve been there. My husband was. He survived Harvest Moon and 9 other major and many minor military operations… He died from Agent Orange exposure. So reading this blog is tragically personal, and sad. Attack the merits of the issue, not the individuals. Your redicule is no different than those in the 60’s who called our Veterans “baby killers”. It’s mean spirited.
Btw – those Nixon bumper stickers are repros. (The car, I’m sure original)
Jonn wrote: Yeah, no one called them “baby killers” here, did we? In fact, it was probably more likely that these guys called your husband a baby killer forty years ago.
You can pretend to be outraged, that’s your right. Just like it’s our right is to call ’em as we see ’em. My co-blogger was physically threatened without provocation by VfP members even though they knew he is a combat veteran. I was physically threatened by IVAW members without provocation a few days later even though they knew I was a combat veteran. All these “silver-haired veterans” care about is politics. We give as good as we get.
I suggest that if this blog causes you any measure of distress, you don’t read it anymore.
purpleduckdude,
I will not respect any of the VFP/VVAW pukes because they do not deserve it.
They acrtively went out and trashed ALL other veterans as baby killing war criminals.
And when you read Winter Soldier, most of the “war crimes” they’documented” are ones they committed. They don’t name names when they talk about other people they saw.
Yet their group is sacred and can trash everyone else.
Like I tell everyone, the only people for sure that I know are baby killing war criminals are those who confessed in 1970 and 2008 at the Winter Soldier “investigations”.
BTW, only one VVAW puke was ever under oath about Winter Soldier and had to admit that the very basis for the Winter Soldier claim of war crimes was a lie.
He had to admit that the war crime he committed was a personal act of revenge and not caused by policy.
He also called Joe Bangert a “bullshiter” while under oath.
PS: So do you celebrate Benedit Arnold birthday?
[And they didn’t even buy me dinner. What gives?]
Well it’s not a legal contract if you don’t get something in consideration.
[That said, you guys are being jerks.]
Considering that comes from a WS 2.1 participant, it’s a laugh.
[None of us are actual threats to the government]
Bullcrap. Replay the YouTube where Telois threatens Convyers with an armed overthrow of the US Governemnt, doing so as a representative of VFP at the meeting.
[…surveillance is expensive, and you guys trying to tweak everyone’s paranoia isn’t very nice.]
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.
Yep they’re paranoid and those are your mentors, the people IVAW looks up to.
And so is Kokesh. See his video where he goes down the block and thinks they’re there to waych him and not conduct random checks like the MPD does in all the other neighborhoods with a rash of shootings?
[Like you, Jonn, refusing to identify yourself for five minutes. What’s wrong with “My name’s Jonn Lilyea, I’m a veteran who blogs from This Ain’t Hell, and I like to cover IVAW and VFP events. You might have seen me at Winter Soldier.”]
Like Uncle Jimbo said, “Play with the hippies. Treat it like a petting zoo.”
Speaking of hiding things, why do all the bald guys in VFP/VVAW grow the side hair long enough for a pony tail and always wear a hat.
Reorganize as Geezers For Peace and save on hats!
[Honey, vinegar.]
You know you can buy those premixed at the drugstore, but if organic makes you feel better, go for it.
Just one correction: you misidentified one of the ribbons as an Armed Forces Reserve Medal; it is in fact the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT) Service Medal.
Carry on.
They don’t have a right to protest unless they served 10 years in full combat zone if you ask me.