News on 2nd Division Marines
I read this and could not believe my eyes.
Long hair? On a Marine? How are they supposed to screw their hats on?
I always knew that Jarheads were slobs. This just confirms it. The fact that someone – some benighted soul – sent a copy of the notice or letter, or whatever it was, to Terminal Lance confirms that it was not a joke. It was also posted on the Book of Face. The weeping, the wailing, the gnashing of teeth….!
From the article: The daily routine, which starts with morning reveille at 5:30 a.m. and ends with 4:45 p.m. liberty, also includes a breakdown of times for hygiene, fitness, chow and daily unit tasks, which many Marines have decried on social media as micromanagement, a form of group punishment and a detriment to future retention.
“We have allowed Marines and Sailors to walk around with long hair, nonexistent or poor shaves, unserviceable boots and utilities and improper civilian attire,” the policy reads. “There are weeds growing around our buildings and work spaces and trash everywhere but the dumpsters where it belongs.”
It’s absolutely horrifying, as someone mentions in the article, that NCOs are trying to roust Marines out of their comas to face liberty at 16:45. This is just bad for morale. They have to make sure that even lowest and slowest grunt on the ground can be ready for the next day, even if it means spending excessive time in Rosie’s Saloon on Magsaysay Street. Oh, wait… that was a different decade.
I guess that times have changed more than I realized.
Category: "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", Marines
“I want that head so sanitary and squared away that the Virgin Mary herself would be proud to go in there and take a dump.” ~ Gunnery Sgt. Hartman
A few Army drill sergeants would remind the J Heads of what discipline is.
not so sure anymore. depends on the drill sergeants.
I think this is really more what being institutionally tired after two decades of war does, combined with the on-boarding of the most silly and entitled generation in the history of humanity….when they can trick them into enlisting.
Having done a minute as an Army Reserve Drill Sergeant Candidate (DSC) I agree.
Two 29 day rotations as a DSC at Benning and Bliss showed a huge difference between Drills. Some were the old school hard charging stuff of nightmares who had entire platoons weeping as they Iron Miked around the barracks at o’dark thirty because someone left a hair in a shower stall, while others were more marshmellow than Mr Staypuff himself.
And it showed in trainees attitudes and aptitude. The downside was, the hardcore DS’s lost more trainees (as in they dropped, became injured, or went AWOL) than the Staypuffs. And when your NCOER depends on certain numbers being met…well…you quickly got a sense for who’s going to win that battle.
Angry Cops has a great take on this.
Mason:
LOL!!!!
😅😆😂🤣👏👏
Does the definition of “long hair” mean that a male Marine lacks having a “high and tight”?
Weeds around buildings? Thought Camp Lejeune paid civilians to do yard work for the base (Wouldn’t that be a Base Commander’s responsibilty?)
No white painted rocks?
What is “improper civilian attire”? Wife Beating shirts? Pants on the ground? Baseball caps worn backwards? Scantly clad females wearing tank tops that expose the mid-drift with short shorts?
“Poor shaves”…does the Marine Corps have shaving profiles for their troops who have facial bump issues due to shaving of facial hair?
Something just does not sound right about this story.
It could also be that the GEN is a bit uptight about a lot of things and has to establish his “authority” (which I thought sat on his collar points). This is so ripe for satire. It’s almost like SGT Hulka getting mortared.
circa 2006 the Kanehoe Marine Base gyms and BX still had signs up showing what “improper civilian attire” was. For me is was a flashback to when I was a kid and you were not allowed to wear shorts to the Camp Lejeune exchange
I walked in the Kanehoe exchange (long after retiring from the army) and got politely, yet sternly, lit up by a Marine senior NCO for wearing my “cover” inside the building.
I politely thanked him and removed my baseball cap. (^_^)
I was walking into that same exchange and was quietly and forcefully told by my son, the Master Sergeant, to quickly remove my cover(BB cap). And, I did see the signs that USAF RET referenced.
Sorry guys. The signs are still there. But like other signs, they are mostly “just suggestions”.
Yeah, COMMAND/Pussies/SJW’s let the friggin’ USMC go to shit.
JUST read an article that lower NCO’s in MY Army can’t map read/land navigate anymore, NO one on any level knows how to establish a entry point for an attack and PL/CO’s/and up Don’t know how to act outside of written orders in a fluid battlefield ! ! NOT in the ROE, no can do… SHIT.
This has been a major discussion among Army Senior leadersfor a year or so. The problem isn’t ROE, it’s how junior leaders perceive Mission Command and a lack of trust in senior leaders.
Mission Command is acting within intent without specific orders- deciding to pursue the enemy or take out an opportunity target even though it was not specifically directed because you know it’s part of the overall intent because it could win the battle quickly.
With great opportunity ere is usually great risk. Leaders have to accept risk on the battlefield, and to do so they have to trust the commander one level up.
That trust isn’t there these days, so jr leadersthink they will be crucified if they take a risk, and fail- maybe even if they succeed.
The problem doesn’t stem from ROE, it stems from what is called the CONOP culture. In Iraq and Afghanistan most units issued orders for major operations, then leaders would submit CONOPS (Concept of the Operation) for individual missions, say a routine patrol. The CONOP describes the 5-Ws, but also lets the higher headquarters do any coordination and line up fire support, MEDEVAC, etc.
Jr leaders felt like they would get in trouble if they strayed to much from their approved CONOP. A great example of why is the Niger ambush- the ODA went out on a CONOP for a key leader engagement, but changed mission to a Kill/Capture at one point. No one above the battalion level had any clue what was going on, So when they got into trouble there were no fire or air support assets readily available.
This Marine general is further eroding trust- he is telling his subordinates that he doesn’t think they can run her units even in garrison. When they deploy they will be more apt to wait and ask mother may I before taking any step.
0515– It puts the lotion on the skin.
Is unit level leadership (BN and below) that fucked up in the 2nd MARDIV that a memo needed to be put out telling everyone how they should manage their units? I thought that Okinawa in the mid-90’s was pretty bad (after the rape of the schoolgirl).
Wow… just wow.
30 plus years ago even a bunch of motor T guys stood inspection EVERY Monday. Did pt at least twice a week. Sent guys on working parties and as duty NCO you had the barracks police called EVERY morning. We kept one set of cammies starched and pressed with spit shined boots just for those Monday mornings. Bullshit was called on any Marine who did not show up Monday with at least a regulation haircut. Barber shops are every where and they all know how to at least get you in regs. Bad haircut meant extra duty on Monday and show up with a good haircut on Tuesday. Most guys would spend lunch hour trying to get a haircut at the exchange. It wasn’t hard to be a good Marine, just do the basics and people stayed off your ass.
Past the age where I could draw social security. Up at 0500 to SS&S before my commute, and liberty doesn’t start until 1810. F’ing snowflakes.
Hear! Hear!
Up at 0415; brush & shave; at the office at 0500; run 2.2 miles; shower — and in my room on the computer at 0600. Finish at 1600, go home and (if I don’t take a geezer-nap … I’m 66 now) finally hit the sack at 2300.
Kids nowadays! Sheesh.
Is that what comes with passing that age line? You automatically wake up ahead of or near 05:00, whether you want to or not, because you hit some invisible line in the ‘year-you-were-born’ chart?
That might explain why I wake up at 5AM for no reason, even on DST time, and don’t get to sleep unitl nearly 11PM.
11PM has Johhny Dollar come on when you say Alexa 20th century radio from tune in and 1130PM, has Rocky Jordan.
Heck NO, PH … I have to set 3~4 alarms to get my lazy butt up out of bed so early; it’s a real struggle for me. If left alone, I could easily sleep 8~10 hours.
Perhaps too many “leaders” had become practitioners of “Do as I say, not as I do”, with entirely predictable results.
Perhaps complicated by at least one “don’t pick on -me-, I am protected” person.
And perhaps complicated by one or more -senior- “leaders” with either issue above. Or both.
“…morning reveille at 5:30 a.m. and ends with 4:45 p.m. liberty,…”
Sea-going Navy airwing back in my day would call that an early secure. 12 hours on, 12 off. Often when not on the boat the squadron would work those hours ashore as well depending on ops that were going on.
It’s not really about the hours- that is a pretty standard duty day for most Army units and I would suppose Marines as well. It’s the fact that the CG couldn’t or wouldn’t entrust his subordinate leaders to make this happen- to include his CMD Sgt Maj and CMDCM.
Weeds growing around the barracks? I can only assume the SgtMaj and/or 1Sgt was in a coma somewhere?
Or not enough Marines screwing up and put on extra duty (which is a lot harder to believe?)
I was actually shocked when I went to Bragg TDY two summers ago. Down at the end of Ardennes where the 35th Signal used to be was now sort of a No Mans Land- the buildings were empty, and I guess those units moved to new facilities somewhere on post.
The grass was long, there were weeds everywhere, paint peeling on signs, etc.
I was travelling with a retired Division CSM and I thought I was going to have to physically restrain him from jacking up an NCO (a Corps troop, not Division) we saw walking down the street- with hands in his pockets, no less.
I agree with Angry Drill Sgt- the policy and daily routine make sense, but this should have been handled by the chain of command at the lowest possible level. On the NCO side of the house the CSM and CMDMC should have let it be known that a new day was dawning with regards to uniforms, haircuts, area police, etc. When I was in the 101st, the CSM simply walked down to the Sky Soldier (the PX) between 1st and 2nd Brigade area, jacked up the first private he saw out of uniform, and had that guy’s entire NCO chain report to him at 1800 to explain why PVT Air Assault had brass showing on his coveted Wings of Destiny. They then had courtesy patrol until they found someone from a different unit to take it over. God help you if you had a Trooper get caught down at the mall in BDUs- Company Commander and 1SG had Courtesy Patrol at the mall in Class A’s until they found the next lucky winner… This method has the added benefit of generating lots of Extra Duty/Corrective Training personnel who report for duty at 1730 in PT gear, 2Qt canteen, working gloves, and a rake for Area Beautification supervised by their Team Leader. The whole process takes about a week, and pretty soon everyone is suddenly taking the extra 15 minutes to make sure their uniform and hair cut are to standard each night, and 1SGs are keeping an eye on the grass, weeds, and cigarette butts. On the CG’s side of things, it seems reasonable that he would have a policy that outlines the basic duty day- if you are not in the field, etc- this protects troops from being ‘hey-you’d’ and/or showing up 15 minutes before the squad leader formation 15 minutes before the platoon sergeant formation 15 minutes before 1SG calls ‘Fall In’, and/or sitting around until 1830 when the CSM lets the 1SGs out of his meeting so 1SG can have his meeting with the PSGs before having final formation for the day… except for the guys on… Read more »
It’s sad that a fucking General ( probably with a lot of input from his Sgt Major) feels the need to do this.
Even more pathetic he aired out his division’s dirty laundry in public.
Going down the line of ass-hattery the worst thing is that he feels he needs to do the Sergeant Major’s job.
If I was in that position as a CG and I had all that shit going on I’d have a sit down with my Sgt Major and set him lose on the other Sergeant Majors.
Either shit would get right or a lot of E-9s and E-8s would be putting in packages so Sgt Majors and First Sergeants could be bought in.
,,, What really appalls me is the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth by Marines everywhere.
There isn’t thing listed that is different from what a decent Marine unit already does on a daily basis.
Classic Gunny Highway scene.
Nasty fucking pogs no doubt about it.
Bring back CCU….we wouldn’t have these problems.
Waiting for the salty 2nd award LCPL to remind the First Sergeant at 1646 that the Division CG said liberty call is at 1645.
Seabag lawyers are going to have a blast with this one. “Dog, they can’t hold you here past 1645. The CG SAID libo at 1645 daily. And having you blinds at half mast is totally an invasion of privacy. You should request mast to the CG.”
“AND CLEAN UP YOUR MESS!” Tried my best during my time to at least keep up the appearance of being squared away. Always look busy and fly under the radar. Does seem as if contractors are doing a lot of details that you used to see troops doing.
Good, fuck ’em. A tour in the Marines is supposed to be horrific. If it isn’t, they aren’t doing their jobs.