Trump administration moves to ban sale of bump stocks, make possession illegal by March
The Trump administration on Tuesday took first steps to ban the sale of bump stocks on semi-automatic weapons and has made them illegal to possess beginning in late March.
Bump stocks, which allow semi-automatic weapons to fire rapidly like automatic firearms, have come under increasing scrutiny after they were used in October 2017 when a man opened fired from his Las Vegas hotel suite into a crowd at a country music concert below, killing 58 people and injuring hundreds more in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.
“Following the mass shooting in Las Vegas, ATF received correspondence from members of the United States Congress, as well as nongovernmental organizations, requesting that ATF examine its past classifications and determine whether bump-stock type devices available on the market constitute machineguns under the statutory definition,” the regulation, which was signed by Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker on Tuesday morning, noted.
It continued: “The Department decided to move forward with the rulemaking process to clarify the meaning of these terms, which are used in the NFA’s (National Firearms Act) statutory definition of ‘machinegun.’”
The regulation will go into effect 90 days after it is formally published in the Federal Register, which is expected to happen on Friday, a Justice Department official said.
People who own bump stocks will be required to either surrender them to the ATF or destroy them by late March, the official said. The change has undergone a legal review and the Justice Department and ATF are ready to fight any legal challenge that may be brought, the official added.
Well that was quick:
Today, attorneys for an owner of a “bump-stock” device and three constitutional rights advocacy organizations filed a federal lawsuit against the Trump Administration’s new confiscatory ban on firearm parts, additionally challenging Matthew Whitaker’s legal authority to serve as Acting Attorney General and issue rules without being nominated to the role and confirmed by the Senate or by operation of law. A copy of the court filings can be viewed at www.bumpstockcase.com.
The plaintiffs also filed a motion seeking a temporary injunction to prevent the Trump Administration from implementing and enforcing the new regulation. The lawsuit, captioned as Guedes, et al. v. BATFE, et al., is backed by Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC), Firearms Policy Foundation (FPF), and Madison Society Foundation (MSF), also institutional plaintiffs in the case.
The NRA folded on this issue when the Las Vegas shooting happened.
The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.
Now they are trying to distance themselves from that position.
The National Rifle Association is “disappointed” with the Trump administration’s plan to outlaw bump stocks, which allow semi-automatic weapons to fire continuously.
First of all the NRA shoots themselves in the foot. A semi-automatic weapon that fires continuously is called an automatic weapon. What is an acceptable rate of fire? Can I be deemed illegal because of my particular skill with a weapon? Am I not obligated, as a citizen, to stand ready to defend the rights of all Americans? In particular, are we not obligated to stand ready to defend ourselves against tyranny?
… it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defence of the State shall require it. This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the Government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the People, while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights, and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist. – Alexander Hamilton
If my fellow Americans are shocked and outraged by events like what happened in Las Vegas, what will they do when we, as citizens, can no longer provide ourselves security from our own government? The actual facts of Waco Texas clearly show that the Government murdered 76 people. Randy Weaver and his family were marked for extermination, his unarmed wife murdered by the government while holding her baby and his 14 year old son gunned down by government agents in hiding. They gave the agents that murdered them a medal to encourage that kind of behavior. There are countless other examples.
I do not condone violence, I am horrified every time some lunatic slaughters innocent people. The sad fact of being American is that the loss of those victims is the tragic price we pay for living free from absolute tyranny. Anything printed in today’s world can be seen as “hate speech” by some branch of government. Now, I fear we enter a time when the Government may Compel Speech and Curtail Rights at their whim. The citizens of this great nation are not just divided, they have become splintered. Meanwhile, the Government grows by acting as if it is the solution.
I for one will never relinquish my right and my duty to protect myself and others by use of arms. I am unashamed and unapologetic about those convictions.
Source: Trump administration moves to ban sale of bump stocks, make possession illegal by March | Fox News
Category: Guns
If full auto is not available to us commoners, then I can at least understand why bump stocks would be banned. I am not preparing for war, but, like most gunners, I enjoy the pleasure of firing different types of weapons. I never used a bump stock but it would be fun to try, just for the hell of it. So long as I don’t expect to put more than a single hole or two in a target (and that would be the first two shots) I would be good. Bump stock worked in Vegas for obvious reasons.
Bump stocks are neat toys ….to play with once . They are not accurate and are just a spray and pray toy . For anyone serious about a good solution , I suggest a binary trigger .
(look it up) . It’s just another adult toy , but a bit more accurate .
With few exceptions , I feel okay about recommending it to this crowd here , because I think you all are sane enough to handle it .
Thanks for that, LRRP2. I am now reconsidering part of what I wrote above, c/o my self discussion below.
Adding for consideration:
Depending on the firearm, one can bump- fire using
= a large rubber band
= a bootlace and a trouser belt loop
= careful grip and manipulation of this firearm, as is.
If you own the bumpmstock, you are a felonunder the new rule. Constructively, that would also apply to the rubber band and bootlace, yes?
That ends badly. Especially when they get to “just hands”.
I also note that thousands of people acted in good faith of the BATFE letter saying “not illegal”. Now they get uncompensated seizure? That also stinks.
We can certainly expect that the anti-2A folks will eagerly and enthusiastically exploit this process to go further.
I have seen the bumpstock used. It greatly reduces the accuracy potential of the weapon. Most ranges I know ban them for because the shooter walks rounds all over the place. If that loon in Las Vegas has stuck with conventional fire, he would have tripled his hits, easily. Most of his rounds went anywhere but he target area.
One other consideration: a bumpstock is a two piece stock with a spring between the halves, and a tensioning screw. A very similar setup exists in every recoil-reduction stock that relies on two pieces and spring or hydraulic action to decelerate the weapon. That ban would eliminate all of those, as soon as anyone bothers to look at the designs.
I am all for punitive actions for asshat behavior. Handing the anti-2A crowd another ability to say “you may not have these! Too much gun” just encourages them to go another step further.
Because one may rely upon the “next step” being “anything easily bump-stocked or bump-fired” thus all self-loaders.
brownell has them in stock… until they don’t
https://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=BSF%20III%20Binary%20Trigger&avad=avant&aid=155690&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-Avantlink-_-Custom+Link&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_content=NA&utm_campaign=Itwine
Did a member of the Trump Organization have stock in a company that sells these devises? This would drastically increase their price in the next 90 days before they become entombed (buried in the back yard next to the 30rd magazines).
They are cheaper on the Franklin Armory site.
https://www.franklinarmory.com/products/binary-firing-system-gen-iii-trigger-pack
Franklin Armory is the original one …..all others are knock offs .
Impressive stuff. I just watched a video of an AR with the binary vs a full auto. They were nearly inseparable and the AR was accurate. Cool beans.
LRRP2
A number of months ago at the Gun World Range down In Deerfield Beach, Fl. There was a shooter a couple of points down using one of those binary triggers. I asked the range officer if he was shooting a legal full auto or a bump stock and that’s the first time I heard of this type of trigger. I heard bump stocks have been around for at least 10 years and I never knew about them until the Vegas incident.
But did the stock work? Yes, the shooter wreaked havoc on the concert goers. But it could have been much worse. Slidefire stocks are known to cause malfunctions, one of the reasons the Vegas shooter had more than one rifle. Due to the inherent inaccuracy of those stocks, and bumpfire in general, it makes sense that more people were wounded and fewer killed. had he used something like a binary trigger and rapid but aimed semi-auto fire, I believe the shooter would have killed many more.
Also, this ban has done nothing more than open the gates for restrictions on other devices, such as binary triggers. Dems are already looking to ban any device that changes the rate of fire of a firearm. Beyond that, it gives unelected bureaucrats the power to ban objects and turn law abiding citizens into instant criminals.
The other day I was going to say something trollish about David Hardin, but then he comes up with articles like this.
Kudps.
So, what happened with the las vegas investigation?
I had the impression the hotel management was hiding shit, probably because they were employing illegals.
So many cameras, and they saw nuthin’?
Pleez.
Nothing ever happened with it. Once certain uncomfortable things started getting pointed out that made it look improbable that one demented shooter did it all by themselves, the news outlets went very silent on it, as did all government agencies involved. Including the local popo who cast doubt on the single shooter assertions. It served its purpose for the left though.
The trail led to Cankles McPantsuit, possibly?
I don’t see what the big deal is over bump stocks. If you want a machine gun – you can still get one. Granted, it takes time, money and a ton of red tape to do it legally. And as far as the NRA is concerned – screw them, today, they only exist to enrich their leaders, not defend the 2A – although they talk a good game. I feel there are better, smaller, grass roots organizations that do a better job. It’s just like those animal cruelty ads on TV, you’re better off supporting your local shelters.
To illustrate the fallacy of your logic – “I don’t see what the big deal is over machine guns. If you want a bump stock – you can still get one. Granted, it takes time, money and a ton of red tape to do it legally.” Except you can’t. NFA sdtuff you can get…. but bump stocks are ‘more illegal’ – how is that logical? Perhaps a better solution would have been to classify them as NFA along with full autos?
Much less, if you apply that logic to other similar issues the logical fallacy(exclusive premises) presents itself. See:
“If you want a machine gun – you can still get one. Granted, it takes time, money and a ton of red tape to do it legally.”
Lets apply that to immigration:
“If you want come to this country – you still can(cross the border with no papers.) Granted, it takes more time, money and a ton of red tape to do it legally.”
Point being from my reply: I agree it is harmful to ban such items, however, if it becomes law we must follow. Additionally, if the second amendment should be required to meet the A. Hamilton quote above; we should, at the least, be able to purchase/own fully automatic weaponry. Regardless, of the possibility of loss of life due to accidents/lone wolves/extremists/etc. The tightening of stringent policies only reinforces the idea of the taboo; thus making it more desirable to eccentric types. Demystify, teach, educate, and promotion of responsibility should be the answer(IMHO) not the restriction and constant propagation of terrible events. The reason Charles Whitman didn’t become a “martyr for a cause” or there were many copycats afterwards was because of a media silence after the immediate outcome. And many news sources refused to give the man a name.
We should go back to those days.
Cheers,
MrFace
There is an old parable about letting the camel put his nose in the tent.
That comes to mind here.
Indeed.
I don’t like green automobiles, don’t want to own one, but see no reason to attempt to ban ownership of them by folks who want one. And cars have no direct Constitutional protections.
For what it’s worth, I don’t care much for camels closer than a block or so away. Keep them out of my tent, please.
Ugh, camels…
A buddy of mine bought a prius a while back. I told him he needs a bumper sticker that says “Fuck the environment, I’m saving gas money!”
Soon after the camel gets his nose underneath the flap of the tent, you will find yourself sleeping with a camel. Tread lightly here.
Eternal Vigilance. What part of what type “gun” will be banned next?
I well understand that take and I usually agree with it. In this instance, I’m making an exception only b/c we cannot now own a full auto if it was made after 1986 or it’s against state law or this and or that. In other words, bump stocks that approximate full auto are no different. Wait! I suppose there is a difference in that bump stocks would be fully outlawed, unlike full autos. Okay, I am now reconsidering. Glad I had this discussion with me. Thanks for starting it!e
Yes, but shouldn’t we consider whether a ban on full-auto rifles is legal/desirable in the first place? IANAL, but if the second amendment is to be interpreted that ordinary citizens are tasked to uphold the security and freedom of their state, why shouldn’t we allowed to have full-auto guns without jumping through arduous legal hoops? After all, what good are AR-15s and shotguns going to be against a trained military with 240Bs, grenades, and tanks? If we need to remain proficient against the enforcers of a tyrannical government, then we need access to the same kind of equipment as they have. IMO the 2nd is a sham if the government can give us the right to keep and bear arms, but then decide on what constitutes said arms.
The issue, for me, is not equivalent firepower. The underground did a helluva job against the German while always out gunned. A sane and responsible US citizen should be (and is, if certain quals are met) permitted a full-auto firearm. Why? Just because.
BTW, you got me on that IANAL. Made me think of anal eye. Thanks for that.
Freudian slip? 😉 Sorry, I thought that acronym was fairly well known. For those too scared/lazy to look it up, it stands for I am not a lawyer, and is typically used by regular citizens speculating on legal matters.
I agree with Some Guy (HINAL) and 2/17 Air Cav (after he discussed it with himself), that we are starting up the slippery slope. Why did they not simply make them NFA devices, just like full auto weapons? Did they not read all my posted comments?
You can thank the St. Valentines Day Massacre for the full auto rules and regulations.
That’s a lot of door to knock on for the bump stock police.
In New Jersey, they’ll just tag along with the standard capacity mag police, so it’s all good.
They can get on board with the “feed two birds with one scone” folks and save on gas money.
As if Paddock would have not performed his crimes had bump stocks been illegal. Sigh……
Yeah, there’s that. I am sure that the first people to destroy their bump stocks, if this regulation makes it, will be those who intended to use it as the Vegas shooter did.
Be glad he used that damfool thing. Had he been deliberate with shots, instead of spraying randomly, he could have easily tripled his hits. Every single round would have gone into the crowd.
At that range, with the weapons he had, he could easily have made deliberate shots on individuals. That would have been hugely more lethal than dumping ammo into everything but crowd.
But his little trigger finger would get tired.
I shoot just fine and don’t need a bump stock of any kind.
So on this issue I don’t care and got nuthin’.
Great example of how those who incrementally take a little liberty here, and another little liberty there get it done over time. So many of us are busy making a living, taking care of our families and doing all the other stuff that made America great that when small steps are taken by those intent upon destroying the country we run out of steam to fight back, especially when we just don’t care about the issue.
Vigilance must be all the time, not just about single issues and those things about which we care most. Taking something from our neighbors really does have an impact upon the rest of us eventually.
Rog that, I agree.
Great point.
I don’t care about bump stocks, but I see where this is going.
We have to resist the Left every step of the way to totalitarianism and poverty.
well, at least we are consistent. Blame the inanimate object, not the asshole who abuses it.
Clearly your last name isn’t Hogg.
Right arm ain’t stiff, either
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Bump stocks are retarded. They are a ridiculous toy for someone who wants to waste their money spraying and praying without hitting much of anything. They lack any real utility. However, part of being a free country includes the freedom to waste your money on retarded shit if you so desire. Bump stocks are retarded, but so are smart cars, Apple watches, at least half of all currently-available college majors, and Seth Rogen. None of those retarded things should be illegal.
So is that rumor about Trump being a conservative still floating around somewhere?
Who knew a silver spoon in his mouth at birth rich boy might turn out to be nothing more than another corporatist, centrist, hack? I’m shocked I tell….
Still better than HRC, but he was never a conservative. He loves himself some big, fat government.
As long as he continues to do the right thing for apparently the right reasons, I just don’t care about his correct political label. “America First” is the only attitude that matters, along with his ability to negotiate good deals for all of us.
Just because it irritates some of our favorite lefties so much, gonna say it once again: Trump was not my first choice, or even my second choice, but he’s now my prez, and I will vote for him again next time around.
I am grateful for the things he has done which none of the other candidates would likely have done. Oh, maybe one or two of them, but all of it? Nope. Trump is the only one who could have delivered all the good stuff that he has.
VOV, you’re a business owner who doesn’t love big government because of the excessive and oppressive regulatory/taxation environment that comes with it. I don’t know how big your business is but I’ll wager Trump’s is somewhat larger. Do you really suppose he loves that restrictive regulatory environment and high corporate taxes any more than you do? Why are we in an expansive small business economy right now? Is it not due for the most part because the Trump Administration has eliminated much of the excessive regulations Obama enacted with his pen and his phone as well as lowering American corporate taxes to a more competitive level?
Trump is more of a social liberal as most wealthy urbanites tend to be. Those folks tend to see big government as an instrument for positive social change. But I think Trump is a capitalist through and through and no overall advocate of big government unlike many northern Republicans.
Poe you are right, I’m a little fish compared to the President.
Like I said still a better choice than HRC all day long, but the conservatives who were trying to convince me he was conservative weren’t being honest to themselves is my only point.
I’m not complaining about the changes in the tax structure, nor are the folks working here complaining about extra in their checks. We all benefit from those policies that have an affect on our taxes.
However Trump was never a solid evangelical, fiscal type conservative. Nothing he’s ever said or done would lead one to that belief.
As OWB says the America first part is where I am with him, the big government a bit less so and the meaningless ban on bump stocks is a clear example of one of many areas where he leaves the farm.
Heavy duty rubber bands do the same thing as bump stocks. How many videos do you guys want to see demoing that?
If it weren’t banned, would you use it? If the answer is ‘no’, then…?
I think the real answer is to revoke all the antigun laws in all state and at the Federal level, and let things sort themselves out. What you have to take into consideration is that in order to justify their existence and their fat paychecks, everybody in Congress has to do SOMETHING, so they come up with useless legislation like this as a dog & pony ‘Look! We did something’ show. They can then pat themselves on the back, have an expensive dinner, and feel good about themselves. In my view, they should be sued for wasting tax money on themselves – maybe for existing, too.
T his order came about because President Trump ordered the DOJ to write a regulation to ban bump stocks
He has now lost my vote and that of lots of other gun people.
The end goal is complete civilian disarmament
Bump stocks, standard capacity magazines, muzzle breaks, these are all small steps to that goal.
Our response should never be to agree to these “common sense” gun laws.
Join Gun Owners of America, not the NRA
Binary triggers are not covered by this regulation.
Nothing stops the next President from asking for another regulation banning any rate increasing device
“Nothing stops the next President from asking for another regulation banning any rate increasing device”
Indeed. Whats next? Ban of the rate I can functionally pull my finger? Much less, how a persons mental agility under duress?
Doc, don’t you suppose Trump did this precisely to appease other potential Trump voters who mistakenly believe it to be necessary. I’m a gun person and he sure hasn’t lost my vote over this single issue. He has done far more for this country than any president in my memory and I’m 77 years old.
Don’t get so wound up over one event that you cut your nose off to spite your face. If folks like you abandon Trump and allow a Democrat to become president, you’re going to see a helluva lot more oppressive gun control than you will ever see under this man.
Look what the Dems are doing in California, Illinois, New York and New Jersey. You want that nationwide? Then let your anger over this relatively minor issue overrule common sense and foolishly don’t vote for Trump.
Yes, they are not accurate after the 1st shot but they are fun to shoot with. I disagree with Trump on this and they at least should be grandfathered in. Still, better than Hitlery being president.
So it hasn’t occurred to even one of you that Trump did this because he knew it would immediately face litigation and shut the yaps of the Leftreds for a few minutes?
You give them eyes but they still can’t see…
Was wondering myself just how asking an agency to look into rewriting, or even rewriting, a regulation translates into anything other than his doing his usual deal – makes some waves, muddy the waters, confuse the opposition. Perhaps we should wait to see what comes of it, other than causing the screeching harpies to become even more confused.
Aw, come on. Could he just be doing what he always does? It’s called negotiation. Posturing is part of that as is keeping the other side off center.
You’re probably closer to the truth than anyone here, OWB. When it comes to Trump it’s almost impossible to know what he’s really up to because he’s always wheeling and dealing.
It certainly is fun to watch, especially since he is so good at it. Well, that, and his using the lefty tactics of distraction and obfuscation against them. My opinion is that what they are often so irate about is that he is outdoing them with their own methods.
Mr. Trump is being pilloried in the local newsrage for his travel ban on Yemenis (among others) because a Yemeni woman, who is married to an Arab-American whose family came here in the 1980s, falls under the travel ban. Their infant son was born in Yemen, but is in a West Coast hospital, dying of an incurable disease. Her ‘entry ban’ is now under appeal (she’s in Cairo now), but all the info about this is reported in the usual one-sided fashion, right next to the article on the bump stock ban.
Since we only get the part of the story that the so-called press want to use to wring as much as they can out of the sympathy card, I’m inclined to take this story with a grain of salt. It may be the straight skinny, or there may be much more to it than meets the eye.
I guess I’m becoming cynical about what the press says these days.
Sleight of hand is one of Trump’s assets in this kind of thing.
He is 50 jumps ahead of his opposition all the time.
I wondered what was next, what he’d do to distract them.
I have to agree with you Ex-PH2, President Trump didn’t become a multi-billionaire Business Mogul by accident or chance, he had to cut his own swath through many a shark pool and the DC swamp is not hard for him to blaze through!
API
Your right, he really knows how to out trump the opposition.
I have one. I won it in a charity raffle. I have never taken it out of the box. Interestingly, in the box is the BATF authorization letter. In that (Obama Era) letter, the BATF explains that the stock
1) has no moving parts
AND
2) accommodates shooters with “limited hand mobility”.
The thing that pisses me off, is that by virtue of buying a charity raffle ticket 10 years ago, I will be a criminal 90 days from now because I own a piece of plastic with no moving parts that is sitting in a cardboard box in a locked closet. #Murica #LandOfTheFree #SmellsLikeBullshit
Take it to the nearest gun shop and trade it for something useful. Don’t sit on it. Dump it.
Has a ban gone into effect? Until it does, you are not a criminal.
Talking about doing something has always been as good as doing something, and usually even better according to lefty practice. So, talking about a ban should shut up the left and really should cause no angst at all among the rest of us.
Who knows? Maybe you’ll go on a little fishing trip with it and it’ll fall over the side of your boat in a freak accident…
Or maybe seize the opportunity and sell it to a prepper/hoarder within the next 89 days and let him deal with the consequences of owning an illegal item. I’m sure the value is bound to skyrocket the closer the sell-by date gets.
Drill it and add a light fixture, wire, bulb, and shade.
Lamp
I view it as an infringement of my natural rights. I don’t comply with any laws that are unjust.
Is it really necessary to have an automatic weapon? I was trained that a single well placed shot was much more effective then a sprayed magazine. Here we go back to the One Shot One Kill motto. Sorry but Automatics are machine guns to me, i.e., 50 cal and .30 Cal’s some thing with punch power.
“Is it really necessary to have an automatic weapon?”
Why yes, sometimes it is.
See my post above, Ken. Necessity ain’t got nothin’ to do with it. It’s the compromise of a principle.
Hey Aussie Ken. I keep asking and you keep ignoring the question. Well? Got an answer? Did you finally figure one out that might be plausible?
Ken, we don’t regulate her on the basis of what some damnfool politician thinks we don’t need. You don’t NEED a TV, you don’t NEED a car more advanced than a Model T, you don’t NEED more than a few books. Here, though… God help you if you try taking them away.
I can acurately fan a single action revolver.
Gloves are required.
You gonna ban gloves Mr. President?
Are you using an ostrich feather fan or a pheasant feather fan to do that?
You will like this. He is dressed rather pretty:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fanning+a+revolver&&view=detail&mid=26C44ADED19C5D864D8726C44ADED19C5D864D87&rvsmid=9FA8C34589D4F69337C49FA8C34589D4F69337C4&FORM=VDQVAP
Anyone who works for Teh Gubberment, at any level, is not “innocent people”
I deliberately ordered a bump stock yesterday.
I will not be turning it in to any Fascist fucktard, no matter what law or rule is instituted.
“Do not fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.”