An Alternative to Running?
The Marine Corps is instituting a substitute for the 3-mile run on the PFT requirement in the form of a 5,000 meter bout on the rowing machine.
Marines seeking to do that will require a medical chit to prove and explain why they can’t run. But it will allow fit and hard-working Marines to still earn a top score on their fitness test without risking unnecessary injury. – Article.
Okay, I can “do” 3 miles easily by walking, but I’m a lousy runner. Swimming? Takes me an hour to swim 15 laps in a 25-meter pool, but I’ll stick it out and do it. One lap is down-and-back.
But the rowing machine? Would you please give me a break? That’s supposed to build muscle tone in lower extremities and in dorsal muscles, not be a fitness test.
How about this instead: Marines who can’t run worth a crap can probably do speed or race walking. If you’ve ever seen racewalking competitions, you know how demanding it can be. There are speed records available for comparison, so why not tone up with a loaded pack, hit the track and do racewalking instead, with someone timing you? It’s easier on the knees and other joints, and has the same benefits as running. A racewalking marathon is 50 miles, not 25.
I don’t understand this obsession with running. Never will.
The article closes with this heartening observation: “It’s heartening to see the Marines push ahead with common-sense change that maintain high standards while also considering the unique needs of individual service members who might be contributing to the Corps readiness in non-traditional ways. Other services – and Pentagon bureaucrats – should take note.”
Yeah – WIENIES!!! Try racewalking instead of sitting on your backside and rowing. Try treading water for 2 hours in the deep end of the pool with your hands six inches above the surface, and see what it does to your butt and thigh muscles. Try wearing a loaded pack everywhere you go, instead of just during training hours.
Category: "Teh Stoopid", "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", Marine Corps
“I don’t understand this obsession with running. Never will.”
Apparently you need to be shot at, rocketted or mortared more, in the open with closest cover 75M away while wearing 100 lbs of gear… then you will understand very well
Understood, but you can’t run nearly as fast WITH a loaded pack as you can WITHOUT it. That’s my point.
you need to stay in your lane
Be nice. You smell like a troll.
On my radar, OM.
Stuff it, old yaccer, you silly bitch.
Don’t confuse ordinary walking with racewalking.
Hicham El Guerrouj is the current men’s record holder with his time of 3:43.13, while Svetlana Masterkova has the women’s record of 4:12.56. Since 1976, the mile has been the only non-metric distance recognized by the IAAF for record purposes.
From Runners World: The classic study that’s often cited in these discussions is by Kirk Cureton and his colleagues at the University of Georgia back in 1978, who added an extra 5, 10, or 15 percent to the body weight of their subjects with a harness attached to their waist and shoulders. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/723510
The old study found that 12-minute run performance, which averaged 3,230 meters (just over two miles) with no extra weight, was reduced by an average of 89 meters for every additional 5 percent of added weight. If you do the math, that works out to an extra 1.4 seconds per mile for every extra pound they carried.
And anyway, if you’re in the field, you are going to be carrying extra weight, so your speed on the track, whether walking or running, is immaterial because you aren’t tested while carrying a loaded pack.
No, but your overall aerobic fitness IS what’s at issue here.
There’s a good reason why the Marines do a 3 mile run versus 2 for Army and a paltry 1.5 for Navy. That’s the point at which true aerobic fitness starts to come into play.
The 12-minute run for distance is a handy tool for measuring VO2 (and it’s how we determined what pace or group was best suited for us when I ran marathons way back when.)
Remember, other services have alternative tests to their runs which also test aerobic endurance. This is also an alternative for those who have a medical reason for not running.
Bottom line, if you can run, you will. Start working on 10k distances with speedwork the final 400 meters of every mile. Worked for me.
I’ve seen plenty of troops who could pass their APFT easily, but when it comes to a day of manual labor and/or carrying all their shit for an extended period of time, they can’t hang.
Let alone all the people with bad knees, bad ankles, etc., when they’re older because they ran so much while in uniform.
At the end of the day, running is not the only or the best indicator of fitness. You should be able to run, but just because you’re a good runner doesn’t mean you’re in shape.
Bingo. My best commo teams weren’t PT studs, they were the big-hearted kids that busted their asses to score 200+. They wouldn’t quit, and most of the time, that’s what’s needed.
True dat. I was never much better than a 8-minute miler, but ask a speedy long-distance runner to keep up outside lifting, etc., and it was no contest.
I’ve seen 300+ PT Studs barely keep up on a Ruck March. Fine if you’re a Gazelle in Garrison, but a Real Soldier always hacks it out in the field as well and especially overseas when the SHTF.
I agree. I was not a runner (I usually got around 75 out of 100 points on the run portion of the APFT), but when it came to ruck marches, I was going up and down the company playing roadguard, then falling to the rear and pushing the ones falling out to not let the old man walk them into the ground, then back to the front of the company to roadguard again.
right, “ex-PH2,” says it all.
Oh, you want attention, do you, you rancorous, hammer-brained old sow?????
Be careful what you wish for.
Give it a rest, won’t you? It’s ok for someone to have a different opinion or to disagree with what you have written. Also, why have you made a majority of the comments on your blog post?? I have you at approximately 36% (10/28) of the comments as of now. In my experience, it seems that most authors of online content rarely stoop to the level of responding to their commentators, even on smaller blogs such as this. Jonn would rarely weigh in on the articles that he wrote. I believe all he needed to say was written in the article. If you think someone is a troll, the best thing to do is ignore the troll, especially if your the author of a blog post. Replying only validates their trolling. This blog is going down the shitter.
Hi there, Petey. I show you posting some five times since the Autumn of 2017, and most were personal attacks. Like this one. No one is forcing you to stay, and I think we’ll do just fine without you.
I come for the phonies. I don’t comment that often due to the fact that most of the blog postings are of subject-matter that I have little interest in, or lack the proper knowledge to provide a value-add to the forum.
As for the few times I have commented, 3 of the comments we’re in reference to tax planning strategies; the other comments were towards simple-minded people who couldn’t see past the color of soldiers skin, or MOS (for those brave soldiers who died for this great country), even in the event of their passing. If you would like to classify that as ‘personal attacks’ fine by me.
Folks seem to enjoy reading posts by Ex-PH2, versus, say, your posts.
Hmm.
Yeah, I’ll take tax advice from some faceless dweeb on the interwebs. One who wraps himself in Mom, apple pie and the flag to go all passive-aggressive. Lame.
We’re going through hard times here, no doubt, but a lot of good folks are pitching in as best they can to keep TAH a going concern.
If you have some constructive criticism, fine, post up. If you’re just going to bitch and take shots, go away.
Understood that you wouldn’t take tax advice from a ‘faceless dweeb’ as you so eloquently wrote. The advice I provided was simply based public data provided by the IRS. For someone who likes to classify ornery commentators as ‘Keyboard Kommandos’, you seem to be rife with your own online combativness. Nevertheless, That really wasn’t the point of my response to you. You made an incorrect assessment of the few comments that I have provided on this blog.
As for constructive criticism, that was the point of my original post to EX – to limit comments made by the author (Just as Jonn did – now mentioned, but unacknowledged for the third time) on the article they have written, and to disregard trolls; both would raise the esteem of the author, such as it was when Jonn wrote most of the articles.
It’s as if you briefly skimmed my comments, made incorrect assumptions, and generated a hair-triggered reply. I find it interesting that one would spend the time to track a commentators posts, but fail to actually read the comments that they respond to.
I challenge you sir/ma’am to reply to this post without any sort of keyboard rage.
Nice try at changing the subject of this post, Olinto.
You are SO lame, so nonproductive, and so very, very self=involved that – well, you just made everyone aware that you are just another commissar in khaki.
Insult, insult, and insult. Check. Check. Check. For someone who is accusing someone else of being unproductive, you seem to waste a lot of time fretting over what people think of you. How productive is that?
Take my advice with a grain of a salt, not a gulp of hostility. All I was simply pointing out is that you comment too much on the articles that you author. I enjoy the articles that you write, and the comments you write on articles written by others – I often find them to be witty, informative and well-thought.
Well, Pete, old Sport, if you think blog authors don’t respond to their readers’ comments, you must not be visiting many blogs. Every blog I’ve been to has authors of articles responding to readers, including “smaller” blogs than this one, so you’re completely wrong about THAT part, Tootsie. You must not get around much.
In regard to the troll, I know who IT is and where IT is, and you don’t, so I was really, really hoping for another attack. Must have crawled back under the bridge.
I was referring more to my experience with this blog, and how it’s founder, may he Rest In Peace, usually left the commenting up to his readers, unless someone was correcting a fact within his original post, or some troll had made a ridiculous comment that needed his attention.
I should have been more clear in my first post. My apologies. Nevertheless, I am greatful that you were able to prove yourself right in some fashion, however trivial it may be. That seems to be your M.O., so the best of luck to you.
And, Peter, you still can’t change the subject of this post by focusing everyone’s attention on YOU. You are obsequious and purple and as boring as an empty cracker box.
I didn’t change the subject. If you throughly read my original comment, it was in regards to how the author of 99% of the posts on this site used to conduct himself.
I am glad that I have the attention, because I think I have a point with some merit.
If you have anything to contribute, about now would be a good time.
I think this was one of those slash and run deals.
Another Keyboard Kommando.
Maybe one of those pouge BAM’s with a cushy desk job.
Another “Shit and Run” wonder. He/she/it has gotten Ex-PH2 on its tail and anyone with even half of a functioning brain cell knows that anyone dumb enough to arouse The Lionesses of TAH®™ will be their scratching post before they get torn to shreds!
I don’t think IT will be back, API.
Having spent a career split between the Marine Corps and Army I found the Marine PFT where you had a bit more time per mile to run 3 miles much more useful than the APFT requirement to run 2 faster miles. Nothing builds cardio and endurance better than running IMO not to mention the side benefits of unit cohesion and esprit de corps you gain from long formation runs.
SGT Fon has it right, no one speed walks out of a kill zone and though I am not saying we need to kick injured members to the curb, proclaiming an equivalency between rowing/walking with running for aerobic fitness is just not accurate.
And the author’s contention is that not everyone is able to run 3 miles at speed nonstop, so they’re accommodating those who can’t with a rowing test.
That doesn’t make sense to me, either.
Who is going to row his way out of a firefight?
I just realized what a Monty Python skit that could be. Think about it for a second.
I thought maybe you Navy-types were bringing back oared galleys, or maybe Viking longboats for assault landings, with Marines on the oars.
Now, that latter option might be called “terrorism”, to some.
(Queue “the Immigrant Song”)
Allow me.
I used to wonder how Roman troops could stay in shape if they had to cross the Med to go to Egypt. Well, a trireme with those long oars would be a great way to keep muscle tone, wouldn’t it? And the Greeks, when they went off to Ilium to sack the city, didn’t spend all their time sunning themselves on the weather deck, either. There’s a hint of that in the Odyssey, when Odysseus has himself tied to the mast to go through the Straits of Scylla, and has all his men stuff their ears with tow (candle wax – EEEWWW!), so that they can’t hear the sirens.
Tow is a fiberous byproduct of Flax processing. (Also Hemp and some others)
Basically, a fiberous batting, suitable for stuffing. It is sometimes used a wadding in muzzleloading blackpowder shotguns.
(Were you thinking of Tallow?)
The Roman Legionary soldier marched from sunup to noon, bearing about 50 pounds of arms and gear (or more). Upon arrival at the noon destination, they labored until sunset to build a fortified camp, complete with wall and ditches.
Every day. All the way from Rome (or wherever they began enlistment) to the frontier, through the campaign, and then back home. For sixteen year enlistments. (Later, twenty)
Those were -very- fit men.
Yeah, I think I was thinking of tallow! Thanks for reminding me.
I’ll pass on having either one in my ear, OK?
Ex: Marines and Navy were a bit different in scoring.
For example, Marines must complete the run in under 28 minutes, for which they get (IIRC) 40 points, and one point for each 10 seconds under that they perform.
So that means in theory they could run 1.5 miles (Navy distance) in 14 minutes. Problem is, that’s a failing time unless you’re over 35 years old.
And having been on the boat with limited exercise opportunities, a rowing machine is a decent alternative to running. Not perfect, but certainly better than cycling (or nothing).
Oh, then you didn’t get to go swimming while you were on the boar? I mean, with all that water available, you’d think some laps around the boat would be beneficial, right? 🙂
What if you swam from the front to the back of the boat, climbed back aboard, run to the front of the boat, jump in, repeat as often as makes sense depending upon the size of the boat. Once would be enough for a carrier!
Now, that makes sense. A carrier is a quarter mile long, so once down and back, then up the anchor line should be a valid test of fitness.
There ya go – now if we could just convert that nugget of an idea into a multi-million $$ grant to study the issue.
My idea of a run now a days is to amble at the mosey. A true work out program for me is dodging responsibilities, chasing rumors, and lifting weights, 12 oz at a time, repeat as needed. Way back in the day, when wearing a green uniform, all of our PT was done at the run, with a full combat load, even the clerks and cooks. 1SG was a firm believer in being able to get away from trouble, just as fast as you got into trouble. For the last 20 years, wearing a Mother Bell Line Construction uniform, hooking 35 to 80′ poles, with all of the tools and hardware, kept me in fairly decent shape. But then again, for the most part, no one is shooting at us. Oh BTW ExPH2, those of us with a major crush on you have asked that you not post the picture of your dream man. Makes us feel jealously inadequate.
Sorry, that photo is the only one I could find.
I have no Dream Man at this particular point in history. I have to talk to my cat about it.
Here’s a start.
https://michaelstokes.net/collections/photos-for-sale/veterans
now that’s just wrong! Our only salvation would be that most of them type “dream men” couldn’t recognize or appreciate the “dream girl”; ie; beautiful soul, educated, that cooks if she hit them up side the head with a #8 Griswold. Did I mention she cooks?
Oh, not really.
Anyone who is willing to throw his/her war injuries in the public’s face like these people have done deserves a helluva high five.
If they don’t view themselves as disabled or “disfigured”, why should anyone else?
I agree Ex. And it’s an example of the sacrifices our boys and girls have made, especially over the last 17 years. I think these pictures should be posted on the front pages of all the news outlets, print, innerwebz, bill boards, whatever, and put a face to these numbers. Thoughts and prayers are all nice, warm, and fuzzy, but these folks deserve more than the lip service.
5th/77; Your right about ExPH2 not posting the dream man pics. I hope she doesn’t see mine in the members gallery. Raining here with the Tropical storm going through the bottom of Florida so nowhere to go today.
The Army’s been doing a 2.5 mile walk, a stationary bike, or a swim test as an alternate to the run for decades.
The Rowing machine is a strange one to select, but I have one and it’s a good workout. Maybe someone higher up in Crayon-land has a brother with a fitness equipment business and lots of extra rowing machines in inventory?
SGT Fon nailed it. The core competencies of the ‘Every Marine is a Rifleman’ Corps is: Shoot, Move, Communicate.
If you’re sucking wind because of a little sprint to the fight, or from Indirect, either get the F out and let someone that can in or un-F thyself.
Roh-Dog, k.
How about chasing a curling stone with a broom on a sheet of ice.
Yes! And the slide to perfection!
At this point curling is my last hope of becoming an Olympic athlete.
If there’s a gorgeous Russian woman on the other side, I’ll scrub for a mile….
“Up in the morning at the rising sun…
Gonna run all day till the running’s done.”
That’s my 2 cents. About to head out for a short easy one as a matter of fact.
USAFR used to do a 3 mile speed walk for the APFT. I did it once before the switch to a 1.5 mile run.
I preferred the walk for the low impact aspect, but the walk was much easier to make a good time on. The run is a much better test of cardio.
I hate running, but it is the best test.
When I used to work Joint Service, we would do each others PT test about every three months (we did our own for record) to mix things up a bit.
That 3-mile run is no joke. Especially the last half-mile to max.
(The Air Force one was great, too. Smoke a cigarette to get the heart rate up before you pedal the stationary bike).
Okay, I take your point (because I’m a terrible runner and I know it) but I want to know how marathon runners do it.
They build themselves up. They start doing a short distance and, when they’re used to it, and are ready, they gradually increase the distance. Once you get going with the running, as part as a normal exercise, you get used to it.
I’ve been running 6+ miles during the predawn hours, when the stars are still up. These runs don’t phase me, just like walking doesn’t phase me. The body gets used to it. In fact, this summer, I added the occasional swim (front crawl and frog stroke) against, with, and parallel to the waves at our oceanfront… Go running before dawn then, later that morning, be at the beach.
Years ago, I was training to eventually do the Army 10 miler. I was able to slowly build up to the 10 mile mark. The body was used to it. There are things that you could wear, during the run, to hold hydration and neutrition to keep your body replenished during the run.
A move, and a chance of plans, disrupted that effort to do the 10 miler, it didn’t help that some dingleberry behind me mistook her accelerator for a break. 🙄
^^this.
And don’t overtrain. Even when I was at my max, I ran 5 days a week:
Sun–(long run) 10/10/20 miles, depending on week.
Mon–6 miles at slower pace than long run.
Tue–8 miles at same pace, throw some speed work in.
Wed–off.
Thurs–8 miles same/speedwork.
Fri–6 miles, slow pace.
Sat–Off.
And I’d throw in 3-4 days a week at the gym.
But it took me almost a year to get to that level. When I started, it was more like 4/2/2/off/2/2/off.
But it was nice to have a resting pulse rate in the low to mid-40’s.
Now? Not so much.
Okay, when I was running, it was 3 miles, based on 10 city blocks per mile, every night. It wasn’t the distance, it was the breathing. I guess people just assume that you know how to keep the air pumping in and out and I could not find one single instruction how to do that, which meant I had to stop and catch my breath and start over, which was a waste of time. Same thing with swimming – do the laps but no idea how you breathe BECAUSE NOBODY EVER SAYS “DO IT THIS WAY” EVER! So 15 laps were murderous, but I could spend an hour in the deep end treading water like it was nothing. On the other hand, I had so much O2 in my blood that I got about one hour of sleep at night. I gave up after a while. Power skating classes and ice dance were just as aerobic and didn’t make me feel like I was rupturing something.
Oh, well, maybe I’ll go trotting again.
Two steps inhale, two steps exhale.
Your issue may have been you were trying to run too fast. I didn’t train for my first marathon properly, and that was one of my problems (shin splints being the other).
First thing they did when I signed up for a training class is they did the 12-minute test. I did 1.5 miles, and they then said I needed to be in the 10 min/mile group. Yeah. I was training too fast.
Also, we did the run a mile, walk a minute to slow the pulse down to a reasonable level of about 140-145. A hard core marathoner can maintain a pulse rate of 170. I am not a hard core marathoner.
Thanks for the tips, NHSparky.
I may have been trying to run too slowly, too, because if I sprinted, none of that “breathing” stuff bothered me, period.
Navy had a swim option in place of the run, where facilities were available. A real no-brainer for me.
Same here. When I did my swim, my swim time was faster than the fastest time they had on the sheet.
Drop, lop, buck, split and stack a cord of hard maple in under an hour.
Marines get an extra ten minutes.
I live out in the country and rarely see a true farmer or rancher that isn’t pretty wiry and fit…it’s their offspring that don’t take to farming but still indulge a farmer’s diet that look like future catastrophic coronary events…I go to the gym regularly but rarely get a workout as grueling as using a 20 inch bar to cut up and dispose of fallen trees, or stacking a few hundred hay bale squares in the barn…I think the pretty boy/girl gym rats at my YMCA wouldn’t fare too well. I aim to still do it all at age 80
I cringe every time I see or hear the term “common sense change.” It’s usually spouted by a ‘progressive’ who knows nothing about the subject being discussed and hasn’t an ounce of common sense.
Translates often as:
Good Idea Fairy says…