On “Take the guns first”
According to The Hill, President Trump seems to want to forego Fourth Amendment protections “against unreasonable searches and seizures” in dealing with guns;
President Trump on Wednesday voiced support for confiscating guns from certain individuals deemed to be dangerous, even if it violates due process rights.
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida … to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.
“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.
Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.
Yeah, no. It happened to me a few years ago when the now deceased Dan Bernath filed a restraining order against me, claiming that my wheelchair-bound ass was spotted outside his home in Oregon harassing him, on a day that I was actually on the other side of the country in the White House at a Medal of Honor ceremony.
Bernath called ahead to the local constabulary and convinced them that I was a dangerous and armed veteran likely to shoot them when they served me on the RO. None of that was true. But, because the RO was out of Oregon, I had no way to recover my weapons through due process.
Luckily, the local sheriff agreed and returned my rather large collection of guns and ammunition to me after being prompted by my state legislature delegate. The restraining order was vacated eventually, because an Oregon judge has no jurisdiction over a citizen of West Virginia when he’s never been in Oregon.
Now, if law enforcement had brought me in front of a judge before they took my weapons, that would have satisfied my 4th Amendment protections. It would have been a pain in my ass, but at least my rights wouldn’t have been violated.
By the way, anyone thinking that they can put me through that again have another think coming. I’ve discussed it with local officers and we have an understanding.
But, taking guns without due process can lead to harassment of gun owners by gun grabbers. The president and his advisors should put more thought into this.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists
Not cool, Donny.
Like I told my brother yesterday. The President has been a 30 year democrat supporter until Obama. Then he became a “Republican” just like that? He’s a RHINO. Now as for the gun grabbing issue. He would have to cut up the constitution and declare martial law, abolish posse comitatis, activate all national guards and reservists. If tries to use executive powers to do this then there is a very good chance of an impeachment and Pence becoming President. Long story short, it is not likely to happen.
Anyone who thought he was a conservative or Republican was dreaming. Nothing in his history indicates that. He is a pragmatic businessman and is used to making deals to fix problems. That is what he is trying to do here. Fix a problem as fast as he can.
I was listening to Mark Levin and thought very same thing.
If the 2nd is watered down to
a thin version of what was intended by our founding fathers, then it won’t be long and they will be
‘analyzing’ other rights.
Recently, I saw an F150 and in his back window on one side: 2nd Amendment: America’s Homeland Security & on the other side: You Cannot Defend The First Amendment Without The Second.
That is pretty much how I feel about all of this. Time to put up or shut up.
My father’s side came in steerage from Scotland (Highlanders) and were sons of liberty. They did not suffer fools (Tories) and neither do I when it comes to our rights, including the 2nd
I already told them that the 2nd Amendment was watered down. It’s because the 2nd Amendment was meant to give the people the power to put the Government in check. Since the people don’t have the power to stand up the U.S. Military as they did in the 18th century, the people are neutered. The only way to restore the original intent of the 2nd Amendment is to give the people their own militia that is as well armed as the U.S. Military.
The problem with Mark Levin is he likes a standing Federal Army. He’s your typical chicken hawk calling for war, yet never having served himself. He’ll even shout down veterans who call his show if they are in disagreement with him. Levin got mad at other conservatives for pointing out that a Federal standing Army isn’t in the constitution.
I am not fixated on any media personality on the radio or tv, but given the flap over guns, I have tuned in to hear what they are saying and callers.
So stop the assumption I am some how a fan of his or anybody else on the air.
Levin is a Chicken Hawk?
Less than 1% serve so let’s just set aside the charges of never having served.
“……………the people don’t have the power to stand up the U.S. Military…”
For what reason would they want to challenge the military?
I am a military brat and served throughout Vietnam war plus and never saw reason why the local populace should feel the need to challenge us.
The only time I saw it full frontal was when media convinced America WE were the enemy during Vietnam…Sadly many American believed it and acted accordingly.
You just claimed that you understood the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment was created so the people would have a check and balance against a tyrannical government. Back in the 18th century all the government had to use on the people were guns and artillery. So if people owned guns too the checks and balances against the government were somewhat equal. That isn’t the case in the 21st century since the government has a lot more firepower than the people. Wouldn’t you agree?
I used to listen to Levin off and on for a few years, but his show turned into an infomercial. I got sick of hearing him hawking his books. The last time I listened to him he would non stop hawk his “Levin TV”. Also, his voice saturates into you and makes you feel angry. He’s a short fuse personality that’ll blow up without having all the facts.
I said in my time as a dependent and on active duty, I did not witness any time, save for Vietnam years where local populace displayed a need to challenge the military.
Try to stay focused.
No need to lecture me on Levin. I said earlier I am not not fixated on any radio/tv personality. You are wasting your breath.
Seems to me that if the guy is crazy enough to lose his rights he probably needs to be hospitalized.
Hospitalization effectively separates him from the weapons and others. During that time it can be better decided what to do exactly.
Can’t imagine a scenario where taking his guns was truly indicated and hospitalization was not. If the guy is crazy and loose he can still commit mayhem.
Very true.
Far too simple, it’ll never work. Enough with the common sense approaches, we need legislation, dammit!
Yeah. Don’t you know words on paper change behavior?
Spot on, Doc.
How could a guy that has his guns taken away from him still commit mayhem? Drive a car into a crowd? Make a bomb out of a pressure cooker? Run through a crowd waving a butcher knife stabbing people?
Sounds like the potus is starting to get that liberal emotional hysteria disease and there is danger in that kind of thinking. I hope he doesn’t turn into a King James II clone from merry old England. Got this from reading Hands Of My Gun by Dana Loesch.
I just dropped Trump a line: ‘You may love the liberals, but I don’t love them any more than my ancestors, who were sons of liberty, loved the Tories’
Seeking the demise of our nation a little at a time..and this is the opening salvo
He is listening to morons like pelosi and schumer, boxer, and winestain….all IDIOTS, all NWO puppets…..Trump, to hell with them, stand on your own feet, you profess to be a Christian, NOTHING in the Bible says you need to give up your weapons, it says ” if you lack a sword, sell your coat and buy one”, it also has low words for a father that won’t defend his family….!
Concur………..it is why I felt compelled to
drop him a note.
Schumer is delighted right now, well was until the horrid NRA spoke with Trump, because anybody who is not Hillary in the oval office must pay attention to what Dimwit party hacks are braying.
Isn’t reasonable cause required first?
And if I read the 6th amendment correctly, a warrant is required just to get started.
Maybe DTrump threw that out for the howling mob to chew on,too.
By law, yes.
How this would end up in a court battle is anyone’s guess.
If Trump keeps getting conservatives into the Supreme Court, who actually do their jobs, it would get shoved up his ass. That would be a clear 4th and 6th Amendment issue, and it would not go well for the government unless perhaps they could show a particular time sensitivity issue, such as not having time to get the proper warrants in order to save lives. Even then, maybe not.
If Trump kisses pelosi’s and schumers asses over this gun control….HE WILL NOT BE A 2 TERM PRESIDENT!
There is a wide difference between someone barricading himself in his house (after threatening his neighbors with violence), and someone who is kind of a hermit who likes to watch noisy bang-bang stuff war movies with the sound so loud it make the houses next door rattle at 2AM.
Those are not good examples, but I hope you know what I mean.
Don’t forget your 5th and 14th Amendment protections for Due Process, as well as what you described for your 4th Amendment protections.
If we have no rule of law, we have no Republic,
and we have no protection from a tyrannical government.
All governmental forms are inclined toward tyranny unless restrained by rule of law and credible threat of force.
Those rights recognized by the Constitution of the United States of America are essential to living as free men and women in the greatest country that has yet existed on this weary Earth. Note that I claim that the rights are recognized by, not created or granted by, the U.S. Constitution.
These rights are ours from God, not from government, and governments have no authority to deny those rights to us.
μολὼν λαβέ, τύραννος.
Radical knuckle-dragging Conservative alert! Report this individual for thoughtcrimes and recommend for immediate re-education and/or termination!
/sarc
Are you looking for THX-1186 again?
Thought crimes are double plus ungood. usually a subject is made an un-person.
Does an unperson have to pay taxes? If not sign me uo.
‘How shall the new environment be programmed? It all happened so slowly that most men failed to realize that anything had happened at all.’
Great reference to an underrated movie!
We’ve already conceded the fourth amendment thanks to the drug war, you lose your house your cash and your bank in a drug case BEFORE you go to court…no one said shit then about how wrong it was. The Patriot Act shits on the fourth even more…as we’ve seen thanks to Snowden and now the Mueller investigation…can’t trust the government ever apparently.
This is what happens when the government is allowed to fuck around with the amendments for the “greater good”…
Not exactly no one. Plenty of folks opposed all that when it became fashionable for government entities to collect windfall profits from other peoples alleged crimes. Oh, they put into place “safeguards,” and a few people got some of their things returned to them. It was a grueling and expensive process.
My point started out just to be that there was opposition to it. Blame the ITS. They set the precedent many decades ago.
IRS
Thanks for posting this, Jonn. The incident you mentioned above is exactly what I thought of when I read about Trump’s utterance. It already exists, albeit very subjectively. I wonder where the ACLU will come down on this.
Pissing off over 100 million gun owners is a surefire way to become a one term president.
These politicians are getting perilously close to setting some dangerous extralegal counter-constitutional precedents (i.e. willful intent of government to violate the 4th Amendment) that may be very difficult to reverse once they are established.
We need less hyper-emotional posturing and pontificating from politicians and more objective, rational thought and debate before this hysterical counter-constitutional nonsense goes too far.
making us then fight to get our weapons returned and battles with the feds never go well.
After the fact ‘justice’ is not justice.
The left calls him literally Hitler. Now, they are supporting him doing literally what Hitler did. I wish they’d make up their minds about whether or not they support Hitler.
He just threw a bone out for them to chew on. Now they’re chewing on it. I hope they’re quite upset by the VERY idea!!! The horror!!!
I think there is a wide gulf between what Trump says and what he does. Recall when he said “send me any immigration bill and I’ll sign it”. He then said, and sent out his folks to say, that the proposed immigration bill was completely unacceptable.
Every time I’ve had reason to be worried, nothing has come to pass to justify the worry.
So do I sit back and not concern myself when he does say things like this? No, but I don’t freak out like you hear a lot of commentators do (no one here at TAH, of course!) 😉
It is my opinion he is trolling the media. That or perhaps he just says the first thing that hits his mind because he wasn’t trained to run every utterance through a team of advisors first like most politicians. Could be both.
In the meantime, I won’t start buying cosmoline and plastic wrap to bury my armory just yet.
[PS, yesterday was my 23rd Marine Corps anniversary. My, how time flies!]
Or because he has no verbal filters, only average intelligence, and doesn’t give a shit about anything that doesn’t benefit Donald Trump. I’m betting on my set.
I thought you were talking about Hitlary Clinton there for a moment.
I think you’re right. He’s just winging it, saying the first thing that pops into his head, like he does far too often.
Yes, I truly do expect a knock on my door, any day now, and upon opening it, find myself confronted by two SPs (probably COX1) with 8 E-2 undesignated strikers behind them, only to be told I have to house and feed them at my expense.
I really do believe that. I will enjoy it.
For me, it was Trump being Trump and shooting from the hip.
However, the #libidiots are on a rampage at the state level in the legislatures all over America and need to be stopped.
Especially Minnesota, they are going to vote on a bill that is exactly the same bill that duplicates exactly what Hitler did just before he started the WWII Conflagration.
Go here, chances are good that your state is on the list of shitstorm from the moron libidiots…
Escept Texas, and they better not be…
Here’s the link I forgot to post…
https://www.nraila.org/
Thanks for the link Thundersticks. I am a life member and did not know of it. One thing I have been doing lately is to sign my debit card , credit card receipts and deposit slips etc. as well as checks with” NRA life member” next to my name. Let these businesses know we are every where.
Each and every one of those pieces of legislation that offers confiscation based on 3rd party allegations with no evidence violates the ‘due process’ part of the US Constitution.
It will be extremely expensive for states to defend themselves against that Gestapo conduct.
If you feel threatened because you merely think I own a gun but have no proof of it, and complain about it to law enforcement, do you have ANY idea how much it will cost the county/state, whatever to clear that up? Staggering amounts of cash over foolishness.
Backpedeling as fast as he can.
Today’s tweet:
Many ideas, some good & some not so good, emerged from our bipartisan meeting on school safety yesterday at the White House. Background Checks a big part of conversation. Gun free zones are proven targets of killers. After many years, a Bill should emerge. Respect 2nd Amendment!
https://twitter.com/Tom_Maguire/status/969190744186671104
How one commentator interprets the foofaraw.
And given past performance, I’m not sure Mr. President tweets without thinking. There is usually more to it than what meets the eye or hits the MSM.
Wonder what he pulled off while the MSM was focused on this tweet? Usually something they don’t like but don’t notice…
There is an article on this idea on the National Review site:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/gun-control-republicans-consider-grvo/
Happened during Hurricane Katrina.
If you’re really worried, I suggest you keep an accurate and up-to-date inventory of all your ballistic stuff, including but not limited to notes on what you have now and what you got rid of and when you got rid of it.
And don’t just keep it on your computer; keep a printout of it in a safe place because you might not get your computer back, y’know.
I lost all my ballistic stuff in a flash flood incident on the San Pedro.
I’m hoping against all hope that President Trump is playing the long game and it is merely strategy and that next week something rather strange will happen… well I wouldn’t be surprised really… Kim Kardashian will be cannibalized by Rosie O’Donut and this mass hysteria will be forgotten.
Kim Jong Un praised these actions as a step in the right direction.
Hassan Rouhani, Nicolás Maduro, Raúl Castro, Omar al-Bashir, the Ernesto “Che” Guevara Foundation, the Hugo Chávez Memorial Fund, Hassan Nasrallah of the Hezbollah, Mullah Muhammad Rasul stated that this will stop the spread of American pig dog Imperialism and the spread of the Western Infidels.
Rosie O’Donut, Barabara Streisand, Bradley Manning, Bo Bergdahl, Casey Anthony and Justin Beiber agreed this can save at least 1 child… maybe 2 and was worth the loss of an inherent right enumerated in the Constitution.
You know, I’m tired of all this stupid shit and I’m barely exposed to any of it, what with my not watching TV newsies or listening to the voices on radio. So, what I would like is this: let’s just go back to where we were. That’s probably where we’ll end up anyway. The days pass. The weeks pass. There’s another shooting. Okay. I’m good with that. There, I said it. As far as school kids go, if the states don’t want the children protected, that’s their call. If they do, so much the better.
We are all well familiar with teachers and their unions claiming that everything they do, presumably even the increasingly newsworthy sexual assaults of children, is for the children. There are school crossing guards to ensure that the walkers are safe. There are special speed limits in front of schools for the same reason. Bullying is taboo, as are games such as tag and dodge ball. School bus drivers are screened and no one is permitted on a bus or in a school without solid reason to be there. Schools have eliminated high-calorie sugary snacks from their snack machines and have banned soda pop. But…and you can fill in the rest yourselves when it comes to school shooters.
Well, 2/17, I cannot remember where I read it, but I remember a story about putting all of the newspapers aside and not reading them until they were a month old.
That way all the hoo-haw had quieted down, the truth had come out, and most of the sky-is-falling news was shown to be just that.
It has played out especially clearly after this last tragedy, where the news now seems to be that the sheriff told his deputies to stage outside and not go in, the FBI failed to follow their own policies, the “stop the pipeline” Obama policies have come to fruition, etc.
It is not over – and a lot of screaming is still going on, especially in an attempt to divert attention from the failed policies of the Left. But it is clearer.
Sometimes postponing the news is good for the blood pressure.
I like that strategy of not reading a newspaper until a month has passed.
Isn’t there a law in Florida that someone who IS a clear danger to others can be reported and law enforcement asked to take him into temporary custody?
It was a very long while back that ABC ran a story about something like that, and how it was abused, but that was, I think resolved.
The problem is that kids are not punished for misbehavior by anyone including their parents, which makes them no better than feral animals.
I know that doesn’t apply to ALL parents but it seems to be the root of the problem. School has become a holding zone while the parents are at work, paying for an overpriced house in an overbuilt suburban neighborhood.
There is definitely something wrong when the “bad” kids overshadow the good kids who don’t act in this destructive way.
Always despised the term “Deem”. Used only by douchebags in USAF Contracting and Acquisition offices.
John W
I love that he’s having an open dialogue, throwing out ideas and discussing options. When its 100% what you all want, you think he’s the greatest and all his ideas are good. When he said that Charlottesville was populated by good people, you tried to defend him and say what he “meant” by what he said. Here, he’s talking out ideas, making a case for a lot of options and youre losing your minds. Its exciting to see people who were 100% behind Donny, no matter what he said, flip around and be 100% against him with no talk of compromise. Let the feeding frenzy begin!
Compromise can be good, but confiscating weapons without due process is slightly unconstitutional, no matter whose mouth the words come from. Welcome back Sharon, we really missed you.
“When he said that Charlottesville was populated by good people…” I know, Sharon, that was absolutely ridiculous when the antifas and Stars and Bars haters were out in force, just looking for trouble! Otherwise, though, I would guess that Charlottesville is chocked full of good people.
I miss that boil more.
Sharon Nickols, I missed you like I miss my last toothache.
Sharon, there is a significant difference between stating the obvious about some good people in Charlottesville, and proposing massive and substantial violations of the Constitution he swore to protect and defend. And you have us confused with liberals apparently. When he fucks up, we will call him on it. This particular instance is as clear a fuckup as I have ever seen.
Sharon, try wearing a girdle for about a week. Macy’s and Walmart both carry them.
Wearing one will squeeze your brains right up where they belong. The fresh oxygen will do wonders for your outlook.
I hope not, but this seems to be a knee jerk, get reelected statement. Problem is, if he follows through and state and local governments grab hold of the idea, the pain for legal gun owners will be great.
The neighbor who is scared of their shadow and sees you loading your hunting gear and weapons can easily call the authorities over any perceived fear and declare you to be dangerous. Don’t think they will not lie through their teeth to make their case either. In their minds anything they do to rid the country of those awful guns is fair and just. Small, normal neighborhood quarrels and issue will become “he’s dangerous, threatening and, he owns guns”.
This was a bad play all around on Trump’s part.
Fire, Aim, Ready. Another day of Trump thinking out loud & the next day his PR folks are cleaning up his mess. Way to energize the leftist gun abolishers. See how giddy Diane Feinstein was yesterday? Thanks Trump!
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Many states have state laws in place where a party claiming domestic violence can get an ex parte (no hearing) temporary restraining order. In many states, when the LEO’s serve it, they will confiscate any firearms in the possession of the restrained party. The restrained party will have to move to get his or her guns back once the RO expires or is vacated, in most jurisdictions. So what Trump said already exists for claimed domestic violence cases and others where an RO based on a threat of violence is issued (as in Jonn’s case with the failed lawer/pilot).
I agree they shouldn’t take your guns first. Did you talk to a therapist about this Jonn Lilyea? It sounds like you may have PTSD from this traumatic incident. Did you drink more during this period of gun withdrawl?
Again, twatwaffle, if anyone wanted your shit, they’d squeeze your fucking ears.
These stores claiming they will not sell long guns to anyone under 21 are opening them selves up for age discrimination law suits. If a pair of dick lickers ask a baker to make them a wedding cake can sues him for his religious beliefs I believe anyone of legal age can sue for being denied the purchase of a long gun.
Steve1371, that would not work. In the one case you have two angry calculating queers, part of a protected group, if not more than one. In the other you have normal, everyday, probably white males, a member of NO protected group. No court would want to touch it.
Copy that USMC Steve. I wonder what goes on under those black robes.
On second thought, I really don’t want to know.
Gun grabbers will very quickly lose their enthusiasm for confiscation once they realize that in order to accomplish this, all guns will have to first be registered.
There are no gun owners I know who will cooperate with this.
As a result, the only way to confiscate all the guns will be to go door to door, to EVERY house, home, apartment, dwelling, etc. and enter therein without a warrant, to look for guns.
This includes the property of those who support gun confiscation.
“We have the temporary authority to search your home for guns in order to bring the citizens into compliance with the law that no guns are allowed anymore”.