Vet advocate declines honor from Saints
Bill sends us a link to a story about retired Navy Commander John Wells, the Executive Director of Military Veterans Advocacy, a veterans group in Slidell, Louisiana. He was offered the People’s Health Champions award to be awarded at a New Orleans Saint football game this weekend. He declined the honor citing the kerfuffle over some NFL players’ refusal to stand during the playing of the National Anthem;
Wells says he’s had enough of the actions by players in the league and their disrespect. He says he is a longtime fans of football and the Saints.
”I haven’t gone to any games, I’ve talked to other veterans and we feel these protests in the NFL are a slap in the face to veterans,” said Wells.
Wells was to accept the People’s Health Champions award. Wells says while he’s touched to be selected, he just can’t accept.
”Basically, I want it to stop, and if there’s a conversation to be had, then let’s have a conversation, but let’s not disrespect the very flag that gives us the right to have that conversation,” said Wells.
The Saints responded;
Throughout Mr. Wells’ media appearances today, he has stated he no longer supports NFL football. That is unfortunate and disappointing considering the New Orleans Saints’ unwavering 50-plus year commitment to honor, support and recognize our servicemen and women and veterans. We will not allow Mr. Wells’ decision and subsequent media appearances to distract our players and organization from continuing to honor and support our military and veterans. We, as an organization, have decided to move on from this sad and divisive discourse and focus our attention on supporting our military and veterans. In lieu of honoring Mr. Wells, we will use the time allotted for the Peoples Health Champion Award to highlight non-political military advocacy programs and encourage our fans and community to join us in contributing to these groups who directly support our military and veterans.
Yeah, well, good luck making your empty gestures to an empty stadium.
Category: Veterans Issues
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Agree or disagree. It just seems that the NFL players that kneel think they can do whatever and all veterans are wrong in thinking they disrespected the flag. What did I miss?
Opinions vary greatly depending on who you talk with, obviously – here at TAH, the dominant opinion seems to be it is disrespectful.
My take is that in this day and age, people are too quick to take offense to anything, often without considering the intent. You see this evidenced in some people saying that people who voted against Obama are ‘racist’ – despite their being plenty of decent reasons to have voted against Obama. Same with Hillary and the ‘sexist’ label. Those actions weren’t taken for racist or sexist reasons, they were taken for other, valid reasons, but it’s easier to stigmatize people with those labels.
Same story here, but with the politics flipped – Kaepernick used to sit, and then chose to kneel because it was still an act of defiance to highlight the racial injustice he believes in, but it was also respectful. It isn’t anti-military, or anti-flag, or whatever. It’s about highlighting, peacefully, what he feels is a deep-rooted problem in our society. But it’s easier to stigmatize that as ‘he’s disrespecting the flag!’, so that sticks, rather than taking it with the intent behind it.
I’ve got no problem with CDR Wells’s actions, and while it’s probably not what I’d do, I’ve got no real problems with the protests either.
“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”
-Colin Kapernick, 27AUG2016
He specifically states he will not show pride in the flag(or country.) It is disrespectful and you guys who like revisionism have small memories when he specifically stated something. It is 100% specifically “anti-flag.”
Cheers,
MrFace
Fuck Kaperdick
Ouch…now THAT is an ass fuck
Yes, and that was when Nate Boyer, an NFL player and Green Beret, reached out to him and they talked:
Full article: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-how-nate-boyer-got-colin-kaepernick-to-go-from-sitting-to-kneeling/
Is Nate, who helped orchestra this compromise, ‘100% specifically anti-flag’? That’s a heck of a thing to suggest, I think, but maybe that’s just my small memories and revisionism speaking.
Nice deflection…. And it is cute, btw.
When talking about Colin; brings up Nate Boyer. WTF does that have to do with the conversation at large?
Opinions == assholes. Anywho, to hit upon your point; Your original post specifically talks of Kapernick and to which I responded about. Personally, I don’t give a shit if he sits, kneels, lays down, or what ever; the actions that Colin Kapernick does are in direct support of his statement of not having any pride for flag or country. He stated as much, multiple times. Im sure the discussion between himself and Boyer changed no part of his mind. You can argue against that if you wish but his words and actions say different.
I used to think your contrarian view to most arguments as refreshing; however, now I find them rather ridiculous; especially after this comment:
“Is Nate, who helped orchestra this compromise, ‘100% specifically anti-flag’? That’s a heck of a thing to suggest…”
Don’t put words in my mouth and just so you know, Nate Boyers opinions on what is respectful and what is not is not commonly shared amongst most veterans. Or maybe he is the mouthpiece for all vets?
Cheers,
MrFace
Did you read the article? Nate has everything to do with the choice to kneel, which is what this is about. You can think Kaepernick is a dick, but the act of kneeling was chosen, over sitting, as a compromise that showed respect… and it came about from a conversation that Boyer had with Kaepernick.
I might argue with you on the ‘most’ aspect, but I don’t have a lot of data on that. There seem to be generational differences. But that wasn’t the point – the point was intent matters. People saying this is disrespectful, even though it wasn’t intended that way, have a lot in common with social justice warriors taking offense when someone says ‘all the men and women’, trying to be inclusive, but miss out on the latest gender pronouns du jour.
Intent matters quite a bit. Kneeling was chosen as a compromise to show respect while protesting, not disrespect.
Kneeling, sitting, makes no difference, no compromise. Just 2 different disrespectful actions by a spoiled brat.
Yes I have read the article; in fact, read the three articles about Nate Boyer and his talk with Kapernick and subsequent calls for action or compromise.
Intent does matter, agreed. But you are a clown for stating those who find it disrespectful are in the same camp of illogical SJWs and gender pronouns.
Wonder what his intent was from them socks he wore? And I see we are just going to bypass the original intent of the “protest.” Whether or not you feel this way, they are only a few who shouldn’t be standing for the national anthem or presentation of the Flag. Most of those people are under the flag while being offloaded from a plane or those in a wheelchair because of actions done for the Country and its interests.
Additionally, I don’t think Kapernick is a dick. I think he is a spoiled fuckboy who decided to opt out of his contract and then realized he was without a job and started whining about it.
I guess what they say is right; If you don’t stand for something, you will kneel for everything.
Its still disrespect. And this isn’t an attempt of myself trying to get on the bandwagon, I find it plain disrespectful. Maybe I was raised different.
Cheers,
MrFace
I probably didn’t express that as well as I could – I didn’t mean they’re the same, you can find kneeling disrespectful, certainly. You have that right. As do people who feel offended when someone doesn’t use the proper pronoun. (No, these aren’t the same scale to me, but I’m just saying you have a right to how you feel.) What you can’t do is ascribe malicious intent to someone who, by all accounts, wasn’t doing something maliciously. You feel players taking a knee is disrespectful? Fine. You think Kaepernick is choosing to be disrespectful when all accounts are that he’s not? Not so fine. You get called a pronoun that doesn’t match your sexual identity that nobody else knows or cares about? Fine, you can be offended. But you can’t attribute an intent to offend to the person who did that. That’s all.
My own personal take on kneeling is that I wouldn’t do it… unless someone told me I couldn’t. It’s like how, in all of my comments here, despite my dislike of President Trump, I always refer to him as President Trump. I don’t like the stupid names people have for presidents – ‘Drumpf’, ‘Obummer’, whatever. But know what? Even though I wish people wouldn’t do that, the moment people say you can’t do that, I’ll do it. Freedom is more important than symbols and respect to office, in my opinion.
Maybe I was raised different too.
Fair enough. I am done with this.
Recap what I have learned from this dialogue:
Nate Boyers opinion is greater than most as it fits your narrative.
Because of this, Kapernick is not being disrespectful even though he explicitly stated he was being disrespectful. Only a good talking to by someone whose opinion matters more gave credence that his original statement was not to be true(regardless of the intent. Intent only matters when it fits a narrative.)
If told that you could not to do something, you would do it because of “Freedom.” Needless to say, even if the President of the Country told you couldn’t do something, you wouldn’t do it because of “freedom;” irrespective of office and to include the Oath of Enlistment.
Am I missing something?
Cheers,
MrFace
“Because of this, Kapernick is not being disrespectful even though he explicitly stated he was being disrespectful”.
^^^^^This^^^^^
Given that his “protest” is categorical bullshit, no, it ain’t all right. You might ask how I know it is bullshit. Look at Kaepernick’s actions to stop all those evil white cracker popo from murdering all the peaceful black folk. Not one thing has he done about it. The asshole was doing it simply to garner publicity, thinking he would not see anything in the way of blowback or consequences for his actions. Muddafukka was wrong.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-how-nate-boyer-got-colin-kaepernick-to-go-from-sitting-to-kneeling/
Facts help
Oops – didn’t see you posted the same article. My apologies.
From the 1970s: What if they held a protest and nobody came to it?
2017: What if they held a football game and nobody came (or watched)?
Seems to me the cameras on the field have tightened there shots so as to hide the empty seats. It’s pretty obvious.
Its depressing it has come to this. Commander Wells made a hard but correct choice. Sir, thank you. I am sure a lot of us feel the same way.
I have not watched one game this year. Hopefully on Veterans Day Weekend, all Vets, Famlies of Vets, friends of Vets, First Responders, and friends of First Responders, and all Patriotic Americans will turn off the NFL.
AMEN!
I think what he did was correct. Why are they giving him an award that they don’t believe in? They are doing this to deflect the light from their over-paid juvenile delinquents temper tantrum. They support veterans? Since when? No any time I can remember. I remember the 1970’s, never did anything then, nor the 80’s or the 90’s. They only started doing this in the last 10 years when people stopped treating veterans like lepers. They jumped on the band wagon. Screw you, Screw your Award, Screw your crew of woman abusing, child abusing, drug addled, Steriod pumped morons.
They do it because the DoD paysthem to do it. As we know military recruitment advertising is woefully garbage and maybe the DoD should grow a fucking pair and stop giving money to assholes that have contempt for them.
Actually, it was the National Guard that was doing it and that stopped The NFL was forced to give back almost a million dollars to the DoD as well.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15611052/nfl-returning-723000-taxpayers-paid-military-tributes
You need to update your info.
The refunded $724,000 of the $10.4 million that was given to them. Hardly altruistic. Also the money came from DoD, therefore taxpayer money. It was stopped because of a congressional investigation. Again, hardly altruistic by the NFL.
Didn’t say it was right. It’s a bad look for the military all around. Just trying to correct the false statement that the DoD is still paying for this to happen. It’s not.
Actions have consequences. The NFL is getting reminded of it.
Didn’t say it was right. It’s a bad look for the military all around. Just trying to correct the false statement that the DoD is still paying for this to happen. It’s not.
dang it…clicked reply on the wrong post.
smh.
Good for him. The NFL can get fucked. They decided as a business decision to allow their scumfuck players to disrespect their consumers. This idea that the NFL is some force of good is ridiculous. Not only are their players comprised of a large percentage of convicted criminals but the disparity and injustice of their privilege sentences compared to the crimes is appalling. While these scum claim American is terrible they themselves are some of the most privileged jackoffs in America escaping punishment for serious crimes because of their profession. Fuck everything about this self righteous America hating business that puts felons who typically get away without punishment for their crimes.
WHEN was the last damned time anyone saw National Felon League players taking a stand against say, illegal drugs or Domestic Violence? According to many a statistic, over ninety percent of blacks murdered are killed via Black on Black violence but we never hear a peep about that, do we?
What about white on white crime?? The same percentage.
“We will not allow Mr. Wells’ decision and subsequent media appearances to distract our players and organization from continuing to honor and support our military and veterans.”
But you let BLM supporters do it by kneeling.
Fuck you
Egg. Zactly.
/nothing else follows
Red something the other day in which a retired NFL’er from decades ago said essentially “You want to protest? Do whatever you feel you need to… on your own time. When you are at the stadium, though, you are on the owner’s and NFL’s time, not your own. When you are on their time: shut up and play the game.
Read, damnit!
David, I believe you are talking about Rocky Bleier.
He was born in Appleton, WI just up the road apiece from me. He was drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers and then drafted by the Army in 1968. He was a grunt in Vietnam serving with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade. He was wounded twice in one day when a bullet tore through his left thigh and shrapnel from a grenade pierced his right foot and lower right leg. He was later flown to Japan due to his wounds.
He played with the Steelers from 1970-1980 and has four Super Bowl rings.
He spoke out recently about the NFL protest controversy.
Some good links about him:
http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story/_/page/bleier%2F091110/sportCat/nfl
https://sports.yahoo.com/steelers-icon-vietnam-vet-rocky-bleier-nfl-protests-never-gotten-point-182928379.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Bleier
Love how they put it all on Commander Wells. fuck off NFL. Personally I could care less about their protests, but they should own it.
Yeah charles, I caught that deflection too.
“We will not allow Mr. Wells’ decision and subsequent media appearances to distract our players and organization from continuing to honor and support our military and veterans. We, as an organization, have decided to move on from this sad and divisive discourse and focus our attention on supporting our military and veterans.”
Yeah Saints, lay it all on Commander Wells.
Of course they did give him the token: “we thank him for his service to our country” comment, so they do have that going for them. /sarc
I easily imagine a horde of posers and embellishers contacting the Saints offering their willingness to be publically honored
I wonder if the situation were reversed and the military/veterans were protesting in a way the NFL found deeply insulting if they would show the same understanding they are expecting of us now?
It’s a rhetorical question. I can’t think of many ways to insult money and that’s their sole motivation.
The NFL told the Dallas Cowboys back in 2016 that they couldn’t wear a helmet decal honoring the officers slain in the ambush in Dallas.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2016/08/10/nfl-allow-dallas-cowboys-wear-arm-arm-decal-helmets-games
They also wouldn’t allow Tennessee Titans linebacker Avery Williamson to wear cleats depicting 9/11 to honor the victims of 9/11 & the military, but they did allow Kaepernick to wear “pig socks” during training camp.
The NFL is truly “phucked up” in their priorities!
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/10/us/nfl-9-11-patriotic-cleats/index.html
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000693574/article/colin-kaepernick-releases-statement-regarding-socks
The decal issue was that the Cowboys could wear the decals in practice but not in games. The idea is that the NFL wants to keep political messages off of their helmets.
That seems pretty fair to me as I don’t want to see BLM decals on helmets. I don’t want to see pro-abortion decals, or Obama’s “Change” logo on helmets.
Once you start to allow political decals on helmets, you open up a floodgate that no one wants to deal with.
As for the cleats, that’s a contractual issue. It has nothing to do with the subject matter. You may remember that Peyton Manning was fined for wearing cleats honoring Johnny Unitas the week of his death.
It is also a thing of “keep political messages out of the actual games.” Would you want to see players with BLM cleats?
The NFL has no rules on what players can wear in practices (other than safety rules.) Players, even the odious Kaepernick can wear what they want and be subject to whatever policy the team has in effect, but the NFL stays out of that.
While I agree wholeheartedly that politics has no place on players helmets, I fail to see how five dead cops is political.
So where are the decals for unarmed civilians that are shot and killed by police?
That’s why it’s a political topic.
Nobody is unarmed until they’ve been searched. Dead people are the easiest to search.
I have a 100% effective way to guarantee not seeing any protest BD, BLM stickers, or political content. I watch my grandsons play for love of the sport and when the NFL is on I watch something more manly than them, like “Victor Victoria”
Is kneeling for the National Anthem not a political statement?
Yes, it most certainly is. And it’s also against NFL bylaws, which require all players to stand respectfully during the anthem.
But apparently it’s a political statement that the NFL finds acceptable – in contrast to honoring the victims of 9/11 and police killed in LOD, which apparently the NFL feels are not.
Exactly. Thank you
You’re welcome. It also points out the abject hypocrisy of which the NFL is guilty in this case – and in general.
I don’t know which galls me worse – the blatant disrespect shown to the US by the protests, or the institutional hypocrisy and cowardice shown by the NFL in allowing it while forbidding other politically-motivated statements, while at the same time failing to enforce their own workplace rules.
Yep the NFL is gutless
Ahh yes the great ratings drop of 2017….so much for the resolute fans never watching the game…viewership through week seven is down a whopping 5%…much as I thought, the NFL fans are as full of shit as the NFL has always been.
Newsflash, overall the big four networks are experiencing an average 8% drop in viewership according to Nielsen data.
But it’s not the the live sporting events that are sucking hind tit so much as the reality of a changing viewing audience. People don’t watch and consume TV like they did just a few years ago. The trend has been there over the last few years that overall people are not watching TV in the numbers they used to watch TV. You could see this coming back in May when ESPN shitcanned 100 anchors across the nation because no one is watching the sports network like they used to even 5 years ago…the internet damn near killed the newspaper industry and it’s now working its magic on the networks.
Those who want to believe the kneeling is the reason are certainly free to do so, but the trend was there before the kneeling and the numbers indicate that 95% of the NFL viewers don’t give two shits whether the players kneel, sit, stand or jerkoff they’ll continue to watch.
I’ve said it in years past and will continue to say it until there is some decisive proof otherwise, NFL fans will watch regardless of what the owners and the players do because the fans like the game far more than they care about the morality or politics of anyone involved in the spectacle.
I remember looking at TV viewership back around 2005 when newspaper ad revenue started to go into freefall. What’s interesting about TV is that viewership changes a lot based on the age demographic. A decade ago, the viewing time for 18-24 year-olds was around 18 hours per week. It was about twice that amount for the 50-64 age demographic.
A big question for those in marketing at the time was whether across-the-board viewing would change with population aging. Would, for example, a 20-year-old in 2005 keep the same viewing habits at the age of 40? Despite some serious marketing angst about this back then, predictions of doom haven’t proven out. TV viewing in each age cohort is about the same as it was 10 years ago. It might be off roughly five percent or so, but what’s also true is that viewership is subject to swings more-or-less similar to the stock market.
To get a handle on this stuff, there needs to be a longer-term view of trends. Something advertising and marketing people apparently have a hard time with.
VOV, how do you account for all those empty seats in the stadiums? I agree with you that the NFL was in trouble prior to Kaepernick for a number of reasons:
Too expensive to attend the games.
Too many commercial breaks interfering with the progress of the game.
Too much questionable refereeing.
Too much liberal pontificating by talking heads.
And yes, I’m going to say it, too many black players whose too frequent demonstrations of taunting and boasting run counter to the American concept of good sportsmanship.
That the League failed to stop the Kaepernick protest swiftly and decisively was a huge mistake considering that they were already losing fans for these other reasons.
I’ve been a Dallas fan for half a century but the kneeling iced it for me and I now watch no NFL games at all nor do I keep up with scores and NFL news on websites. I’m through with them until they get their shit together in more ways than one. So, you are wrong about me and I suspect millions of others. If you think the NFL, Disney and the big Nets aren’t doctoring those statistics regarding their loss of viewers/business then I’ve got some prime oceanfront here in the Ouachitas I’ll sell you cheap.
You need to check out what Papa John said this week.
By the way, having once lived in New Orleans briefly and another 13 years nearby on the Gulf Coast, I’m also a long-time Saints fan.
They can kiss my ass forever…
Yo! NFL
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Nice. And sums up my feelings quite well.
Just because the NFL is trying to moderate its guilt trip, doesn’t mean anyone has to swallow the BS, does it? It’s hogwash on a guilt trip. They can stuff it.
And no, I haven’t watched fussballspielen in something like 10 years, maybe longer. It has gone from obnoxiously stupid commercials interrupted by bouts of sports, to just plain boring. It is less painful to watch ants running up and down on a tree trunk.
It is really quite simple, each and every one of those NFL players kneeling are cowards, pure and simple. None of them will quit the NFL and go join a Police Department to change what they claim is wrong. But then I forget, what it is 1/3 of the players are convicted felons? All of them are just spoiled little boys who will never grow up and make any of the hard decisions a man must make. As I said, they are nothing more than cowards.
Join a PD? Hell, they won’t even go out into those communities they claim to be the champions of. If they were out, trying to combat black on black murder, or housing discrimination in the black community, or crime in the inner city, does anyone doubt that would be the lead on the nightly news, local, regional and national? ESPN would add another channel, just to carry the stories 24-7.
What is this NFL thing people speak of?
Love how, according to the Saints, that Wells is the one being divisive and distracting…
Watching the NFL is a choice. They will not push their guilt trip on me for their behavior. If I believe they are disrespecting my flag, I stopped watching.. End of Story.. It’s a choice. But remember there are consequences for all actions. Ask Hanoi Jane about that.. Not my problem.
They can have that Berghdal kid stand in for him. He’s a better representative of the NFL and liberal standards. Fuck ’em all.
espn.com has a little more on this:
Saints safety Kenny Vaccaro and defensive end Cameron Jordan touched upon this on their Twitter accounts Thursday, with Vaccaro writing, “Our crowd boos us before the anthem, therefore it’s not about the flag, it’s about the fact we are bringing awareness to a cause that makes people uncomfortable.”
Jordan tweeted about how fans have “ignored” the reason behind the player protests.
We sit “its disrespectful to sit/kneel” 😶🤔 we kneel before “why are you kneeling still” & continue to ignore the WHY. What am I/we missing?
— cameron jordan (@camjordan94) November 3, 2017
I’m not mad, only motivated to do more in our community than before…. One day I will have the desired impact
— cameron jordan (@camjordan94) November 3, 2017
source: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21267874/new-orleans-saints-say-unfortunate-disappointing-retired-navy-commander-declined-award
It appears that the players are saying “why aren’t you listening?” and the fans and people around the country are saying “we can’t hear you because of what you are doing.”
If you want people to listen (and I for one want to have the conversation the players want but suspect their idea of a “conversation” is “you have to believe what we believe, facts be damned.) stop spitting in their face.
Cameron, all you are is a higher paid version of the uneducated stoner flipping burgers at McDonalds that “protests inequality “ by spitting on the quarter pounders. You and your protesting buddies tainted the product, and no one is buying it.
My unsolicited opinion on this. During my 2010-2011 deployment to COB Basra. The government was once again fighting about the national debt. At the same time the NFL players union was talking about a strike. Well the sequestration monster happened. The all mighty DOD took out half of my paycheck. The NFL players union was able to squeeze more money from the NFL(the mean salary at the time was $400,000). Well with half my paycheck gone and I being yhe sole breadwinner we were short on our bills. My apartment complex back then was gracious enough to wait until next month when we got our paychecks restored through an easily avoidable act of Congress. By the way back then my pay was something like $3,000 give or take. My rent was 575, electric $100, food $60, $50 into the TSP. Roughly $200 a month for my wife to pay off HER credit cards. She had to pay all of that out of $1500 taxed dollars. Not a lot of wiggle. Luckily for us it was only one paycheck. That is what got me to start tuning out the NFL. This kneeling shit put the dirt on the coffin.
IMHO protesting for a cause is one thing, but intentionally disrespecting our Flag and National Anthem to do so? FUCK THAT and FUCK THE NFL.
For me, Sunday is now what is should be – God and family.
Later NFL.
at some point, probably around the arrival of salary cuts, the average player is going to realize he pissed in his own rice bowl on behalf of a second-rate third-stringer who figured it was slicker to stir shit than to up his game skills.
Im not sure what pisses me off more this NFL BS or Bergdahl not getting jail time (or hung.
NFL Football players: With very few exceptions most of you haven’t served our nation. The right to protest that you enjoy has been purchased with the blood and tears of your fellow Americans; repeatedly. Americans of all races, creeds, and ethnicities.
Instead of twittering and kneeling; go spend your money and time to make things better. DO SOMETHING REAL instead of just garnering a bunch of attention. I calculated the time it would take me to make what one of the more ummm newsworthy (that’s sarcasm folks) Seahawks makes; it would take me 44 years to earn as much as he makes this year. That’s with a couple of college degrees, over 20 years of professional experience and having served my nation in the USAR and ARNG.
Count yourselves lucky that one of those military color guard members haven’t come over and jammed a rifle up your asses. Look at their chest, that little purple ribbon with the white stripes? Thats a purple heart, that means that service member has bled so you can have your tantrum.
Bite my hairy ass NFL.