Nathan Fletcher: Purple Heart for PTSD
Chief Tango sends us a link to the Washington Post which published an opinion piece written by Nathan Fletcher, who claims to be a combat veteran of the Marine Corps variety and a professor of political science at the University of California at San Diego. His piece is entitled “Veterans with mental-health injuries deserve Purple Hearts, too“. He tries to forward his theory that if we gave folks with diagnosed post traumatic stress a Purple Heart medal, that would reduce the suicide rate among veterans. He cherry-picks his evidence from a VA report on suicide among veterans;
We must confront and overcome the stigma of mental-health injuries. It’s time to provide equality of honor for sacrifice by awarding the Purple Heart for combat-related mental-health injuries.
We veterans brag about physical injuries; they show grit, resolve and perseverance. There is no reluctance to get “patched up.” We must likewise pay respect to the strength and resolve of transforming post-traumatic stress into “post-traumatic growth” and encourage the same cultural embrace of those injuries. I know Marines who were given the Purple Heart as a lifetime honor for injuries bearing no lasting scars or impact. But Marines who served beside them in that same combat situation suffering from devastating post-traumatic stress get no recognition and no medal and are cast into the shadows.
Lawmakers often say there’s no difference between mental and physical injuries sustained in war, but our policy creates a clear distinction, a clear stigma. Studies show that suicide among veterans is more than twice as common as among civilians. Veterans are also less likely to seek help for their mental-health injuries because of the powerful stigma associated with post-traumatic stress. We must encourage veterans with mental-health injuries to seek available treatment — and that starts with recognizing their injuries as real.
Awarding the medal is not just symbolic but also would send a strong message that we recognize and appreciate the sacrifices suffered while serving our country.
I’ll bet he liked the idea of improving our readiness by awarding everyone in the Army a black beret, too. What he skips over are some key parts of the VA report for example;
There is continued evidence of high burden of suicide among middle-aged and older adult Veterans. In 2014, approximately 65% of all Veterans who died from suicide were aged 50 years or older.
That means that the further veterans get away from their actual service dates, the more likely they are to commit suicide. That means to me, a layman, that the VA is the problem no matter how hard Fletcher tries to blame the DoD for their machismo. Veterans over the age of 50 were not accepted by civilians like they are now. I guess that might have something to do with it.
Back to Fletcher;
Stigmas are rooted in deeply held beliefs that are tough to change. You will hear that if we make this change, veterans will fake their symptoms to receive a medal. This ignores the essence of those who served. I don’t know a single Marine who would lie to get something he or she didn’t deserve. And we should never base policy on the potential for isolated abuse.
Yeah, I have hundreds of pages of people who tried to “get something” they didn’t deserve. We shouldn’t base policy on the verbal meanderings of a political science professor, either. Blaming DoD for not expanding the parameters of their award system lets the VA off the hook when they should instead have their feet held to the fire.
Category: Veteran Health Care
To hell with this.
Every time PH for tha PTS comes up I nearly throw my gd phone. It’s crap, if someone needs another bit of fabric to feel better then they’ve got bigger problems. Campaign stars, combat ribbons and patches, CABs, etc,…
How much f***ing flair do POGs need?
Seriously, GFY, Non-rating, non-leaving the wire douches.
I feel better
Lmao! Good rant.
Thank you. I’ve learned from the best, my fellow TAHers.
Note: I am no way disrespecting or expressing doubt in the author’s military record, just his logic.
I’m with you Roh, for those of us that actually left the wire with a rifle and a rucksack, the last thing we wanted was the VC/NVA marksmanship badge. I genuinely feel for those that have the dreaded PTSD from actual combat mental trauma, but I feel nothing but disdain for the parade of fake douches we read about every week here. Nowdays, the ASU looks like a dark blue Xmas tree with all those badges, ribbons and related bling. But I guess POGs gotta pog.
What if we set a limit of five things to add, besides rank, branch, nametag, and current unit? The -wearer- decides which 5.
What five things does the wearer value?
The ones they earned the hard way.
Why… the double star CIB of course!
A 5 limit would still leave us with posers claiming “secret authorization” to wear 10 thingies.
I’ll give you my uncle’s, who served in Vietnam, response: “Fucking pussies. Get over it”
PTSD can be a severe problem for many but even more milk it for everything they can get to their shame. A Purple Heart for it? No
Gully Vern, aincha fingered it out yet? Any vet thats a thinkin on killin hisself, will not do it ifn youse jist gives him a medal…dats all dey want! These simple minded professors need to be put away in a home somewhere quite, with NO PHONES, no tv, no communications…just a mirror to talk to themselves! imho
I was going to comment on this… shit, I just don’t know about some of those in “academia”. Must fucking hurt for them to breathe some days.
Here’s his bio, from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Fletcher
He converted to Demoncat in 2013 and was endorsed by Guv Moonbeam for Mayor in 2013. So, he a born-again Progtard/converted ex-Republican. It looks like he or his campaign manager wrote the Wiki article above.
Translation: just another blue falcon.
Another worthless turd in the liberal/dumocrap soup pot!
I’d like to see his FOIA report.
Woooo, he’s a board member of the OfA Troll Academy©™, and he brought together all kinds of progressives(spit), like “law enforcement, community, business, labor and faith-based leaders to form San Diegans United for Common Sense Immigration Reform”. And yes, that is exactly what it sounds like, ignore immigration laws, dole out citizenship to illegals, “common sense” immigration visa reform.
He certainly has that Operator pose down in that photo.
Oh. Fuck. No.
Fuck this dude.
Looks like he wants one.
If his theory is legit, then we might as well start handing them out with the NDSM.
And I would love to see the line that forms when that happens.
I have the “PTSD”. Give me a medal. Hey its only 30%, but that’s enough, right?
I cant remember where I read it, but over 90% of all VA PTSD Claims are BOGUS.
I doubt that’s accurate, I also doubt everyone getting paid VA disability for PTSD truly have it. It’s just how can you legitimately weed out fakers while still providing compensation for those truly affected buy PTSD.
I had to sit on those claims boards. You can tell for the most part, when I was doing it, that the number of fraudulent applications was no where near 90%. But, you could also see the frauds. Like one guy claims horrible PTSD for witnessing a non fatal accident in Kuwait versus the multiply deployed combat arms vet of the battle of Fallujah. We were not permitted to say if they were fake or not, just review the evidence. If a doctor determined they had it, THEY HAD IT…. even if we knew it was BS.
Bingo. They need to let actual Veterans set on a board to vette the cases. As in here we can sniff out BS in a hot second unlike the 28 year old civilian social worker
Actually, I was regular army when I sat in on the med boards in San Antonio in an effort to help relieve the massive backlog several years ago. Part of the requirement for selecting the field grade officers for that assignment was they all had to be officers that had been in combat. We would point out what we thought were invalid claims but we were told we were not doctors and therefore we were not to formulate opinions on validity, only to adjudicate the case.
👏 👏 👏 👏
Please do a FOIA on this guy.
Half a million applications for PTSD service connection in 4 – 3 -2 – 1 – Boom.
Would catching the PTSD be restricted to combat?
I’m not trying to minimize PTSD. It’s a real thing. But, please, let’s put a stop to this.
I can see a Sailor reporting for duty. He presents to his LCPO or CMC, and sits as his records are reviewed. Laughter ensues as he reads the PH award letter, stating you were awarded the PH b/c you had it rough in boot.
Stop. The. Insanity.
Shit. If that were the case, I should have multiple PHs for cranking, diving the bilge on field day, and having to eat tacos AND lumpia at Via’s in Olongapo.
I WISH I was bullshitting but in one of my past Units we had a never-deployed Medic who claimed that Basic and AIT gave him PTSD. He later straightened his ass out and got his shit together, likely from advice (SCREW “Counseling Statements”) and verbal counseling from grumpy Old School types like me.
I am honorably retired.
I have PTSD, enemy did not cause it, something in my mind did.
No bullet ever penetrated me, no shrapnel entered my body even when I was concussed by an explosion.
I have all my body parts, and for the most part, I can think ok.
I DO NOT MERIT THE PURPLE HEART.
As I posted on an earlier post, the VA was practically begging me to say I had PTSD. F*** ’em. I know of a few that NEVER went overseas and now claim PTSD, or now receive 70 to 100% disability (I know, some may be legit, but you all know what I’m saying). Those that can will take advantage of the system for their benefit.
They were the same way with me too, I served mostly overseas, but had a good time. They also were digging around about sexual abuse too by superiors, which never existed either. Its like they’re looking for shit, even if it’s made up, to justify their existence and to prescribe more pharmaceuticals.
PTSD is a real thing, I know people won’t agree but it is real, especially for those who suffer from it and the families connected it. Combat-related PTSD has been around as long as combat has existed. I am somewhat stigmatized in my own life do to what I feel about it. Now, Cris, that many funerals would mess with me too. I didn’t even like standing on the line in Bagram when they would hold the final departure ceremonies for fallen soldiers. I can also tell you this about PTSD, since I have stopped taking so many chemicals in my body after leaving active duty, because you’ll be held as non-compliant if you don’t take them while on active duty, I’m actually feeling a little better about the problems with my mind. I still don’t deserve the purple heart though.
I meant to post to Jay below and here about the meds, sorry.
That actually makes a bit of sense, about the chemicals. I get anxious as hell just DRIVING past cemeteries now and get the shakes when I see those green tents they set up around gravesites.
“..the VA was practically begging me to say I had PTSD”
Just curious about this. When you say the VA. Who was they? Was it a Physician, Physician Assistant, Nurse Practitioner etc. What department were they affiliated with? Have they done so at any other facility you went to or just this VA facility?
When you say they were begging you…could this have been simply a screening? Had you stated you thought you did does not make it a diagnosis.
Everybody complains that our vets aren’t getting enough mental health care. One of the ways to get them into the proper care is to screen everybody for such possibilities.
Right now the DoD for example is supposed to ask every patient about suicidality and document that they have done so on each visit. It has become routine in the same way as asking about allergies, pack years of smoking, alcohol, drugs, and taking a baseline set of vitals.
This seems like it might be a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.
Please don’t feel obligated to address this if you don’t want to. I’m just curious.
The VA used to ask me every time I was there . Till I told the VA that I had my family If they told that I had killed myself. START LOOKING FOR MY KILLERS. Joe
No problem. When I was seen they scheduled 3 appointments for me, a Sunday, followed by a holiday Monday and a Wednesday. All in the same week. This was 3 years after I retired and the VA was going through some bad press about backlogs etc. When I asked them on the phone about these dates (thinking there was a mistake), because of the Sunday and holiday, I was told that the dates were correct and they were trying to catch up on appointments on the urging of higher ups in DC.
The psychiatrist that interviewed me was stressing a lot of questions concerning PTSD. I never claimed it and answered negative to any symptoms of it. She kept pushing the issue, “was I sure I didn’t do this or that, did I ever strike my wife, etc”. That’s why I said she was practically begging me to admit to something that she could diagnose as PTSD. Again, that’s how I felt at the time.
I have nothing bad to say about the VA and have no reason to dislike it. Maybe the folks working there were feeling the pressure from the bad press and wanted to make sure they were covering all bases when asking questions, and just went a little over on the side of trying to do the right thing. Again, are there actual cases of PTSD? Yes, there are. Are there folks that will game the game to receive something they don’t deserve? Absolutely. I just think in this day of trying to not look anti-military or anti-vet, it is too easy to get fooled by someone like that.
Interesting. It does sound like the Psychiatrist was hard selling it. I can think of any number of reason for that, but there’s no way to know for sure. At least it was in a department in which being really sure to address it is not only reasonable, but mandatory. Yes, as you said there is a potential for abuse, especially if budgets and political motivations are involved and not just vigilence to find bona fide cases and prevent unfortunate outcomes.
Thanks for the insight.
When I was applying for a disability rating for hearing loss the nice woman saw that I had a CAB and told me that they automatically put in a PTSD claim for everyone they came upon with a combat badge. I told her not to do it for me – maybe I should have, they later turned down my hearing claim. 🙂
I know of a Trooper who was given 30% PTSD rating automatically because of his CIB and BS with a V device. They stated that there surely had to be some stressors involved.
The whole PTSD thing is now out of control.
Their is this old guy I run into at the local diner occasionally, we’ve chatted a few times about our USAF experiences because we both wear Tactical Air Command ball caps, but his says Korean War vet, funny thing is he served there in 1960 with an F-100 wing in Pusan on a flight line security detail, you know making sure us dumbasses mechanic types don’t cross the yellow line and we have line badges, well he claims to have caught the PTSD and that their were commies everywhere attacking every night….I thought the main war was over in 1953 except some incidents near the DMZ a few times a year, all I can do is SMH because his tales are obviously bovine manure, but yet he claims he caught that PTSD virus, and all he wants to do is forget about the war, but yet he talks about it every time we cross paths ????
I deployed ONCE and left the wirest ONCE. However, in 7 years I did 10 funerals for KIAs to go along with the 103 funeral honors I did for other Marines. Shit like that stays with you. Do I have a touch of the PTSD? Sure, based off of the DSM, due to flashbacks, avoidance and other things I have PTSD. Would I claim it for the Purple Heart? Fuck no.
IMHO THE heaviest load one can carry while on duty is that of carrying the folded United States Flag and presenting it to the Next of Kin.
I never got shot at, but for me, the Purple Heart would be the one medal I would NOT want to get.
Seriously. Ya gotta wonder about anyone who would want one.
Aren’t there already plenty of participation awards? Seems like I had quite a few of them – almost all my awards are just for showing up as ordered.
That’s about the long and short of it. I recently retired after 20 yrs as a supply guy with ONE deployment. When you look at my stack I look like a friggen North Korean general. My old man was a Vietnam Vet, retired in 90 as a MSgt. He had SIX ribbons/medals, including his retirement award. They give the shit away like candy now.
I wrote about a CWO in another thread a while back. He had something like 40 years of naval service. WW2. Korea, Vietnam. ONE, count it, ONE personal award. A Navy ACHIEVEMENT Medal for SAVING HIS SHIP FROM SINKING!!!!
My, my, how the criteria have been lowered.
I agree. Here in the Great White North, the only ‘Hand Out’ medal is the CD. It is awarded only after 12 years of undetected criminal activity.I have seen many Majors and even LCol’s with the CD as their SOLE medal/ribbon
When ever we visited our friendly neighbours to the south, even most of our SNCO’s would look pretty sad next to the average E4 and all their chest bling.
Suprised you guys don’t have an award for tactical asswipeing 😉 Call it….the Imaculate Starfish ??
So I am a long time lurker from back before BlackFive was more than just a book review site. I never comment on anything for a multitude of reasons, but this Nathan Fletcher guy is a particular brand of assh@ole. Anyone with ties to the San Diego political scene can attest to the fact that Nathan Fletcher is a self-serving hack and is wildly dishonest.
Fun Fact: Nathan Fletcher’s Wikipedia page is strangely void of any mention of Fletcher’s association with Duke Cunningham (yes, the $2.4mil in bribes, disgraced ex-congressman Duke Cunningham). Nathan Fletcher was Cunningham’s congressional district director in the early 2000s, meaning that he essentially ran Cunningham’s San Diego office. Nathan Fletcher would have had to have been incompetent to the nth degree to not have some inkling of Cunningham’s malfeasance.
Another Fun Fact: Fletcher came back from deployment near the end of 2004. In January of 2005, the Chief of Staff position for Cunningham’s staff was vacant. Fletcher was passed over for the promotion and quit not long after. The Union Tribune story that brought Cunningham down broke in June of 2005.
Word on the street/unsubstantiated officer rumor was that Nathan Fletcher, being a petulant bitch, tipped off the Tribune reporters.
This PH for PTSD is a farce. Nathan Fletcher has never lifted a finger to help a veteran unless there was a camera present. Nathan Fletcher is cordially invited to eat a bag of dicks.
Another lurker here and a San Diego resident. You hit the nail on the head. I would add two things: 1. he is a failed politician who had a particular crush on being Mayor of San Diego. 2. He is married to the equally repulsive Democratic politician Lorena Gonzalez. These two are just two of the Democratic elites in California who are bound and determined to take the state over the edge of the cliff.
You know, in that same report it also states that something around 6 of the 20 suicides a day are committed by Veterans who are receiving any help through the VA. Not sure if I’d pin the blame on the VA if the majority aren’t even associated with it.
Truth is: mental health care in this country is lacking and sometimes, no matter what you do, people are going to kill themselves. It sucks, but it’s the truth.
I slipped on the ice once on a taxiway and cut my knee, ripped my fatigues right thru my thermal long johns…can I get a purple heart for that ? it did embarrass me at the time it happened so I have a mild case of the PTSD virus(sarc)
Hey, why don’t you come to a session of vets with combat PTSD and make your jokes? That would be funny.
I wouldn’t do that to someone who really was wounded or experienced a traumatic event while in combat…but many veterans have not and their are far too many scamming the system, which only hurts those that actually need the help…..so lighten up
Lighten up, Francis.
Apologies to Sgt Hulka, Stripes
If one can’t laugh at themselves then one is doomed to a miserable life. I spent 24 yrs in the Corps, loved it, swear by it, and would do it all over again if I could, but I’ll be the first to make jarhead jokes.
“Terminal Lance”
Now -that- is funny!
So if someone gets a shred of shrapnel in their forearms and they get a purple heart and someone comes home with PTSD from combat, what would you rather have? I’ll take the shrapnel instead of the daily panic attacks, flashbacks, anxiety, etc…It’s not like you have to be buried to have a Purple Heart.
Maybe they can just issue a “Purple Head” certificate/participation trophy and leave the PH standards alone…
Given that the suicide rate climbs as a function of age, is it so likely that VA is the prime focus? The main complaint has been lack of treatment; has anyone done any correlation between equivalent age/period of service folks either receiving/not receiving treatment and their respective rates? Or is it possible that the peak in suicides is more attributable to mid-life issues? (The three legs of retirement: medical care, spending money, and having something to do.) How many folks have you met whose lives are basically pretty meaningless to them except for that glorious (in retrospect) time when they were in uniform and felt like they was somebody? It ain’t just the high-school jock whose glory days were on the team and the fact that he raised and cared for a damn good family in the 40 years afterwards somehow blows by him… how many service members have you met whose peak was when they wore stripes or bars? I’m not articulating this well, but I think the situation is far more complex than just VA.
From a poster(meme)I saw:
PTSD
What happens when you get home and realize you will never be this awesome again.
There is truth in that meme.
The first weekend of military retirement…major letdown when that reality hits you. 🙂
Believe it or not, I missed the chow hall, of all things.
Sunday Brunch…aaaaawwww yeahz
midnight chow, the breakfast,lunch % dinner of the swing shift
Who could ever forget that nasty rubber like steak
They served once a week in theater, or Yakisoba every Thursday Lol…
My uncles served in Vietnam, and both had a bit of post traumatic stress to deal with.
Neither of them would have wanted a Purple Heart for it. Tommy would have just laughed, and Mike would sneer.
I wonder how long before this is extended to 15 y/o basement dwellers playing “Call of Duty” on Xbox, or the audience that sat through “American Sniper” or “Zero dark Thirty”.
This shit is getting way out of hand.
Nathan “Feltcher” Fletcher sounds like a pussy.
The suicide study is relatively well done especially for the fact that the authors include the limitations of the study. One of the limitations is that the data is drawn from State mortality records – not VA records. The data is limited to the 26 States that ask about the deceased being in the military. The authors recognize that the service information is usually supplied by the families of the deceased. They recognize that there is no effort to confirm service status in these records. They also recognize that there is a good possibility that families will say yes to the veteran question in order to give the deceased some modicum of dignity. Hence a lot of the older “veterans” committing suicide may not have been veterans. In other words, take the older vet suicide rates with a large grain of salt.
John has correctly pointed out that the study indicates a high rate of suicide in the over 50 age groups. On the other side of the coin, the study points out that for the veteran age groups below 50, the rates of suicide are considerably less than national averages.
Take the 22/day meme with a huge grain of salt. I think the study was a good start on veteran suicides, but it needs more rigor in the data collection area.
Incidentally, other studies of suicides for those on active and reserve duty demonstrate that these folks have far lower rates of suicide than their peer age groups.
As for the nitwit’s suggestion of PH for PTSD, well I recommend that guys like this be awarded an EB (empty brain) medal. Having this on their chests might assuage their feelings of emptiness and inadequacy.
It’s seems apparent from Fletcher’s bio in Wiki that he’s a political animal. For the Washington Post to describe him as a political science professor at UCSD is also a bit disingenuous in that he’s a former California assemblyman who is married to an assemblywoman, and apparently works as a mid-level executive for Qualcomm. The UCSD gig is apparently adjunct and on a non-tenure track.
Speaking as a card-carrying cynic, it’s been my experience that anytime a politician says almost anything, it’s usually a good idea to both check your wallet, and to look for a hidden agenda.
In this instance, one strictly hypothetical scenario, is that Fletcher is positioning himself to take a 2018 run at the congressional seat currently held by Duncan Hunter. Doing the WaPo opinion piece paints Fletcher as a veteran’s advocate, something he would share with Hunter, while also having the advantages of being part of the Democratic machine in California.
Meanwhile, Hunter is having his own problems with a current DOJ investigation into his alleged mishandling of campaign finances.
Or his wife is gearing up for a run at Duncan Hunter.
Did you bleed?
No.
Any broken bones?
No.
Then fuck off.
I think you forgot “Take your Motrin, drink water and DRIVE ON!!!”
Nathan Fletcher…just go away and fuck off, you opportunistic colostomy bag.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t everyone involved with combat have some sort of PTSD effects, but after awhile it goes away and only a rare few it doesn’t and becomes debilitating? That is what I was told while in the Corps and even experienced such.
PTSD is a specific diagnosis. There are currently 7 stress/trauma related disorders in the DSM-V.(including the Not Otherwise Specified or NOS category)
Not all extreme stress related to anything including combat is necessarily going to result in PTSD. The public in general and many journalists generally seem to really likes to simplify things.
Writing about PTSD causes an emotional response because everybody and their granny has read, seen or heard something about PTSD.
ADDENDUM: another aspect of this which is not at all insignificant has to do with treatment.
To get treatment there more often than not needs to be a diagnosis. Funding and staffing is often significantly a factor of the statistics of morbity and mortality reports. How many patients do you serve how often for what problems.
In a just world mental health providers could and should take their time and not diagnose someone unnecessarily. The reality though is to treat them there has to be a reason which to administration and funding /reimbursement sources that means a diagnosis…fukking now…or you get bumpkus and the patient potentially suffers.
My father was shot in the head at Buna Beach in WWII, blinding him in one eye and deaf in one ear with permanent nysagmus and loss of balance. His unit suffered 98% casualties. He lost his nasal bone when a Japanese soldier hit him in the face with the butt of his rifle, but managed to bayonet the guy before he passed out. He liberated a Japanese POW camp and foudn the body of his buddy mutilated. He was a hell of a guy — got a Silver Star and a couple of Purple Hearts. He didn’t talk about the war much, but my mom said he almost killed her when he got back to the States. He was asleep and she walked in and shook him to wake him. He had her down with his hands around her neck before he was fuly awake. When I was growing up, he never spoke of it except on rare occasions, such as when I joined the Army. He was worried sick about me, even though I wen in as a noncombatant physician who would be in minimal danger. He tried to talk me out of joining. Then, when he was in his 80s, he was hospitalized for sepsis following knee replacement surgery that went bad. Every night, when the lights went out, he started reliving the war, and ended up running (or rather hobbling) down the halls fighting the war all over again. In the morning, when the lights were on, he was appalled and apologetic. My cousin came back from Vietnam with a heroin habit. He never really made it out of the jungle, and ended up dead in a bathroom with a needle in his arm. Maybe everybody has PTSD a little. But nobody I served with went through anything like that. Not even close. I’m getting the impression that calling everything PTSD is a little like calling everything rape. Rape is a horrible thing, but when people say that telling an off-color joke is the equivalent of rape, it doesn’t make the joke worse — it makes… Read more »
We have to remember, a lot of these (you) guys were young, 18, 19 year olds thrown into something nobody should ever have to experience. One moment you’re out with your buddies talking cars, girls and how to score some beer and the next you’ve got folks that are out to slaughter you and inflict any pain they can to kill you.
Total volunteer force. We asked to join ” the war business ”
I guarantee you that I never had it any harder on any of my deployments then my grandfather had in World War II.
Its called life.
Move on.
I joined a little older than the average guy. maybe that has helped me cope with things. I think also staying in for a career and being around folks who were there with you or could relate probably helps, too.
As someone with PTS all I can say is this moron need to go to hell
It’s a sacred honor to earn the PH why in the hell turn this honor in to a joke
I guess this goes back to”everyone gets a trophy”. However, with my civilian job I’m involved in the hiring process, and with this new generation that recognizes insignificance, it’s very hard to find any work ethic. So, keep it up guys, all you’re doing is making those of us that do work hard for what we get more desirable in the civilian market.
What does this have with th PH? I think that this whole article about the PH for PTSD and participation trophies in general are related, and the are a direct result in the decline in work ethics in this country. BUT hey, what do I know?
Oh, believe me, the correlation is there. I think it also goes with calling everyone who wore/wears a uniform a hero. Before the hate starts pouring in, I have the most utter respect for that young man/woman who serves, and especially those that signed up knowing that they were going into harm’s way. But I have seen it a few times where this hero thing had gotten to their heads and they’d walk around like society owed them something. I used to cure this with my Marines by telling them that the only thing they were was expendable. Harsh maybe, but it woke them up to reality and humbled them a bit.
I could give a shit less what this clowns opinion is about much of anything. I dont think this Fletcher chick understands what Hillary losing the election actually meant.
I caught a nail fungus in the jungles of Ft Bragg, the minutes it took me to find my way out to Chicken Road seemed like days. Thats gotta be good for sumtin.
So long as they attach a special device to whatever award they give to needy little phuks, I dont care. I have a suggestion for the device in mind.
We already have a “V” device.
But that “V” is not for vagina. I think the golden tampon device is apropos for these POS’s. Maybe Felcher has already earned his, as he is clearly a pussy and a turncoat.
I remember…one Sunday… in the hazardous SoCal operating area…I was on watch in #2 engineroom…suddenly 3 explosions were heard off the starboard side…the CHENG immediately came on the 1MC and ordered all personnel topside to go below…seems like the CO had decided to fire grenades into a sinking fishing boat along side of us…19 sailors were hit with shapnel…when I came out of the engineroom…a fellow CPO was coming down the passageway and said look at this and he raised his shirt to show off his wound…He said “I’ll get a purple heart for this!!!
Had to shake my head and sadly inform him that you don’t get a purple heart when your own CO shoots you….
I listened to a radio show on Memorial Day while working and some chick called up claiming PTSD. Turns out she was in the Air Force for 1 yr, watched a drone strike on video ( this was right after 9/11) and watching terrorists die so traumatized her she got a General Discharge and years later is still torn up by flashbacks.
Yeah, I wanted to reach through the radio and punch her in the twat. It’s people like those that make it harder for our soldiers who really need some help to get it.
I’m a Marine multi-tour combat veteran with no purple heart. The purple heart was designated as an award for physical injury in war time. PTSD? Nope. The purple heart is NOT a participation medal. This proposal would only cheapen the rightful respect this medal garners for it’s recipients. Fail by one of my brothers exhibiting the traits of a Fobbit struck down by the malodorous magic of the Good Idea Fairy. This can only be fixed by a robust injection of size 12 combat boot to the good professor’s ass so as to jar what common sense he does have loose to combat the poisons of the good idea fairy.
And let’s not paint all POGs with the same broad brush. I was commo support (31E, Field Radio Repair) to grunts (25th D, Hawaii; 2nd D, Korea) and treadhead DATs and CDATs (2ACR, Germany). I trained beside them for my particular tasks, and contingency tasks. Was it stressful? Hell yes! Was I shot at? No. Was I ever hurt? Yes (stoopidity in action). Did I ever “catch” or claim Teh PTSD? Hell no! Did I ever even want a PH? Not only no, but again, Hell No!
So let’s not treat all POGs like dirt. We provided the beans, bullets and talk-talk to all’y’all at the front lines.
“You can talk about us, but you can’t talk without us.”
For a time in the Corps, I was an Admin Clerk. I loved it and I cried when they took my desk away. I don’t think there is an MOS more POG than Admin Clerk and I carried that secondary MOS for many many years.
For a time, I was also federally certified Counselor and was one of only two at the Camp Lejeune inpatient treatment center.
Again, POG as you can get. I really enjoyed that period of service as well.
I take pride in my POG-ness.
I think VA compensation is enough “acknowledgement” for PTSD.
Yeah.
And there is enough of that going around for the “PTSD”.
Hey stupid, you do know PTSD is a real disease? A lot of brave troops have suffered from it. Why you belittling “The PTSD” jerk off? Someone should choke slam you.
You can have different % of PTSD compensation. It starts out at 0%. PTSD can be for combat or non-combat. I’m kinda sick of the uppity attitude/pharisee of posters on this site about the issue of PTSD. Sure, some people are faking mental illness, but a lot aren’t. This is why I think a lot of people involved as stolen valor hunters are really just self righteous pricks. Sure, hunt those who steal valor but leave those who aren’t alone.
It’s not like every medal for valor ever given in combat was legit either. A lot of medals, including the purple heart, have been given out a little too easily. Kind of like those bronze stars given out to officers who were no where the bombing in kosovo. I’ve read of plenty of stories where lower ranking troops never got the medals they deserved. Medals have now become apart of the promotion selection process. So, you know it’s important to bathe every officer who’s in the old pal’s club with medals that those outside the club will never get. The entire awards system is messed up. It’s too bad our nation gave into this European system of awards in the first place.
https://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-blog-about-military-matters/69822403-did-u-s-military-personnel-really-earn-all-their-medals
Hey princess, there is a reason people refer to it as “The PTSD” and belittle it. For every one veteran that is rated by the VA for having it, only a very small fraction of them actually have it. Behavioral abnormalities in adults are most often attributed to a diminished capacity. With the exclusion of certain preexisting physiological onsets the causality points to environmental events that modify behavior. Most all of us are subjected to traumatic stress during our lives. When a traumatic event is coupled with guilt or sudden onset the ego intuitively rejects acceptance. Hence the ‘denial’ phase of the grief cycle. Fixation during that phase of the cycle manifests itself in behavior that is observed as aberrant by most those not subjected to the associated stress. I have spent decades dealing with individuals concerning these issues. I can offer my own attestation to the existence of post traumatic stress, almost all of us can. What I reject is the trend to ‘normalize’ a fixation or stagnation in this stage of development. Rejecting a swift kick in the ass as a treatment modality is unconscionable. There is a current social reinforcement of the hypothesis: I have been subjected to traumatic stress therefore prolonged abnormal behavior is acceptable. Reinforce this with financial rewards, special recognition, and a social reluctance to confront the behavior and it is perpetuated. Insofar as Veteran Victimization is concerned, the aforementioned hypothesis is perfectly suited with a minor modification: I am a veteran therefore prolonged abnormal behavior is expected. I should receive special attention, financial rewards, and the general public will not confront my behavior. Since I have just a modicum of experience in these matters, let me offer the following advice to my fellow veterans that are stagnated in any particular stage of development: You are not special, you do not deserve special attention, you do not deserve to receive money, and there is at least one veteran in this world that will call you out on your bullshit. Have a nice day. It seems I have to post this kind of thing about… Read more »
Princess? Why don’t you say that to a group of PTSD vets or are you just a internet touch guy? Who died and made you God? You narcissistic piece of shit.
I think you need to get checked for your delusion of being a wannabe General Patton while you’re at it. Go to your local vet center for your kick in the ass and tell them about your narcissism problem.
Unfortunately, Lily, the number of people who are claiming PTSD is closely related to the number of people who are claiming service they exaggerate or didn’t have at all.
Frankly, if Timmy Poe hadn’t made his bogus claims about service and ‘catching the PTSD’ when he was on America’s Got Talent, and hadn’t been pounded for it, it might not be the issue it is now.
But handing out a Purple Heart for it is just wrong.
Most of you here are really ignorant. A big part of the problem with the PTSD claims is the way the VA rates them. If you have PTSD, depression and bipolar you only are allowed to have all your symptoms fall under one mental disorder. So say you’re really only 10% for PTSD but you tell them your symptoms for depression and Bipolar you end up 70% for PTSD. That’s the VA’s fault, not the vets.
Go claim your 10% and fuck off.
Deal with and mover on.
PTSD is not something you wear on your sleeve….or is it?
Why don’t you grow up and stop being an internet douche bag first?
Go claim your 10% for foot in your mouth syndrome. They will probably deny you since it was preexisting condition.
It would probably be more legit that most of the claims out there.
Maybe we should bump it up to 30%?
Would that make you happy?
Keep it on the sleeve….
I have Severe PTSD. I was retired from the Army for it and not a year has gone by since 2010 that I haven’t spent time in a psychiatric ward. I take heavy anti-psychotics and go through yearly electro-convulsive therapy.
I am rated at 90% from the Army and 100% from the VA for the condition.
That being said, I am 100% against awarding purple hearts for mental health issues. I have been through hundreds of hours of therapy and I have seen numerous frauds. The criteria to diagnose the condition is already too lenient and since practitioners don’t check for combat records anymore, it is rife with fraud. If they make this change, I will never wear it.
Has anyone discussed injection of the stellate ganglion with you? It’s somewhat new and has helped in a significant number of patients where others modalities have not. I’m just a guy on the internet, but you may want to discuss that and some of the newer treatments with an advocate.
Honorable position – something the frauds wouldn’t give a second’s thought to. I had a newly commissioned friend ask what I thought of PTSD, and I told him that I was sure that the system was being played, but I still had to support it, because for every fraud there is a genuine case of someone needing help. I still believe that. I don’t support the PH for it, though.
The issue here is not whether PTSD does or does not exist as a legitimate malady. The only issue is whether or not a Purple Heart should be awarded for it.
But since that door was opened, it is obvious that some of us are aware of multiple ways in which current ethos and treatment may not be very productive and instead may prolong the agony for those who suffer it. That is a national shame. The goal should be to return all of us to a productive lifestyle as quickly as possible not to provide excuses (and too often and addiction to drugs) to become separated and perhaps segregated from society.
Not sure if I’m reading that correctly or not. You’re saying the medical community is creating addicts rather than providing treatment?
The drugs used to treat PTSD, (SSRIs and such) are generally the types of drugs with little to no abuse potential and are not addictive.
Drug sometimes used, especially in acute episodes, like valium, are from a drug class called benzodiazepines. Those are not opiates and yes, they can be abuse, but they are generally for short term acute episodes.
If I’m missing something here I’d like to know what PTSD treatments you’re talking about that are turning people into addicts.
People not getting treatment, often will self medicate with illicit drugs and alcohol which is another reason to get them care/therapy and get them on safer and useful meds when indicated.
I have no idea how pervasive it might betoday , but at least isolated cases exist where the medical community has indeed made it worse. I have not kept up with it the past few years so it may now be fixed, or not.
My point is simply that talking about it makes it better for some and worse for others. Medications may or may not work, but they will not for everyone, and folks respond to any treatment differently from their housemate, others in their unit, or even perhaps any other human on Earth.
Self medicating is one of those things we used to caution people against as they reintegrated. We used to list a bunch of potential effects which they might or might experience and gave suggestions how to deal with it. We also used to meet with spouses to give them a heads up, always emphasizing that the core person who deployed was the same core person who came home to them, but that there might be some superficial changes which might or might not need monitoring. We simply gave them all options and explained that it was all normal.
The result of all this was pretty effective in giving everyone the tools they needed and information they could use. When one of our docs got his briefing, he came to me with tears in his eyes and wished that he had heard something similar back in the day when he returned from Vet Nam.
Not saying that PTS should not be treated. Of course it should. But, too many I have known seemed to be made worse by treatment than they might have been without quite so much of it. But who knows – perhaps they would have been much worse without it – rather difficult to prove either way.
To those belittling the issue of PTSD
Hey lily, that video just changed my life.
Amazing.
I am a better man now.
Brilliant.
I am in touch with my inner feelings and urgings.
Excellent.
Oh damn, I’m running out of PBR.
Psychopaths and narcissist don’t have empathy. That’s why it didn’t change you.
To those belittling PTSD survivors.
What I find very sad with this line of comments is how some appear to be reacting to things not said instead of to what was actually said.
Most of us do not know each other and therefore are not saying anything at all about the particular circumstances of anyone else here. Yet, some of us are being accused of doing just that.
Very few adults manage to avoid emotional trauma in some form. If not handled in healthy ways, it can pile up into an unmanageable pile of crap. Most vets have a degree of bad stuff they have ignored, had to defer, or simply do not recognize.
Whatever you want to call it and however you elect to deal with it (or not deal with it), somewhere along the line it will demand resolution. Many of us simply see it being preferable to deal with PTS as a normal part of living instead of waiting until it becomes a disorder which consumes a major portion of one’s life. (Not that it can always be that way, but it remains a worthy goal.)
Getting all judgmental about any of it is not productive. Those who are making false claims of it make life more difficult for all of us.
Lily, we are not your enemy unless you are one of those who is making false claims.
I got an idea. How about you stop playing the victim for YOUR bad behavior. If you can’t do that then you’re not worth anyone’s time.
OK, but you are going to have to explain what bad behavior you are talking about. I have no problem claiming errors I have made, for example, but until I am aware of the error it is impossible to atone for it.
Meanwhile, continuing to do what one has never done is about the easiest thing in the world to do. Most of things of which I am a “victim” are things like terrific friends, grand neighbors, a fairly comfortable life, and experiences what many folks never dreamed of having – and a host of other things with which I have been blessed and for which I am extremely grateful.
Good point, OWB
I am the victim of my wife’s steak. She just made a perfect steak and I eat it all, now I am full and with no room in my extremely sexy belly for another beer.
Right, because your wife’s stake in your mind is comparable to a vet suffering with PTSD. Not very good trolling, pal.
Your claim “PTS is a normal part of living” that people wait until it becomes a disorder is condescending BS. If you’re so against stolen Valor why you pretending to be an authority on PTS? Your comments are offensive because you’re not my doctor or aNY other PTSD survivor’s doctor. The question is why are you projecting so much of your own problems onto PTSD victims? I think that question is answered in the video above. Get some help from your local vet center or VA.
PTS is an acronym for post traumatic stress. It refers to what follows a traumatic event. It IS a normal part of living. Dealing with it appropriately is one of the more important we humans learn to do, and sometimes we need help with it.
Not all people with PTS develop a disorder. That is also simply a fact. Since I don’t know you, I have no idea whether you have either at the moment. No one has accused you of anything here other than failing to react to what is actually written.
I am certainly not pretending to be an authority on PTS. I have observed it for over 50 years, spent decades around people dealing with it, and participated in more than a few CISM situations. That hardly makes me an expert but it does mean I can recognize a few things the average bear might not see.
Not being your doc is precisely why it is inappropriate for any of us to give you specific advice on what you should do in your particular situation. It’s OK if you do not want to learn from our experiences. But, that also applies to you – you suggest that I get some help from the VA. We don’t know for what, but there ya go – I am supposed to request their assistance because someone on the www thinks I’m projecting?
The collective intellect, wisdom, experience and all that in this crew is far superior to anything any of us will find at the VA or likely anywhere else. You have made it obvious that you would rather misunderstand our words than learn from them. That is your absolute right, of course. But objecting to and finding offense in things we have not said is absurd. You will be called on that, just as we call each other on it every day around here.
Thanks for filling me in on the acronym for PTS because I thought we were talking about your monthly cycle. Obviously the VA understands that PTS is a problem and that’s why they give compensation for it.Trying to gaslight me by telling me what my memory should be of the belittling comments about PTS on this thread doesn’t work on me Pal. Try your narcissistic tactics on someone who doesn’t have my level of understanding of behavior. Obviously talking to someone at the VA would be helpful for you since you claim you don’t know what the problem is. Just start by telling them what you told me about PTS. I’m sure they would like to see you for a long time.