Neller wants infantry squad drones
AW1Ed sends us a link from Military.com that reports General Robert Neller, the commandant of the Marine Corps wants to create a position in infantry squads for a drone operator;
[Neller] told an audience at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C. that he was interested in creating an assistant squad leader position with a primary focus on operating the unit’s UAVs.
The assistant squad leader concept and the idea of equipping small units with drones were both tested out in the recent Marine Air Ground Task Force Integrated Experiment 2016, held at Twentynine Palms, California in August. The exercise proved the operational value of these concepts, senior officials said Wednesday.
I could see one at platoon level, like a machinegunner or a sniper, but not at the squad. I think having a number of drones at the platoon to support the squads makes more sense than some guy in a squad trying to operate a drone under fire and in direct contact with the enemy.
Category: Marine Corps
I can, kinda, see why the Corps would want it at squad level. The Corps tends to work at a smaller level for independent ops than the Army. In the last two battle places it was not at all unusual for the Corps assets to break up into independent and mutually supporting squad elements to blanket an AO for extended periods.
But, I call bullshit on the need or even desirability of adding another man and position to the squad. If drones are wanted at squad level, then teach the grunts how to run the damned things rather than pretend its such a super specialized whatever that requires a specific dude to do it.
I suspect, in the end, this drone gizmo will just end up as yet more broken crap that grunts have to add to their pack weight.
The Marines have worked at smaller, more independent levels, but so has the Army.
Maine Rifle squads are bigger, though (3 teams, 13 Marines) than the Army (2 teams, 9 Soldiers). However, Army squads are led by Staff Sergeants with Sergeant team leaders (sometimes a Corporal or Specialist), while Marine squads are led be Sergeants with Corporal or even Lance Corporal squad leaders.
In other words, Army squads are smaller, but have more experienced leaders. In the mechanized (Bradley) and Stryker world, they also have more organic mobility and a shitload more firepower than a Marine rifle squad.
I’m telling you that to tell you this: The Army has been experimenting with this idea for a while as well, and has come to essentially the same conclusion, although executed a bit differently.
Aside from micro UAVs, we’ve looked at unattended ground sensors and manned ground sensors (packbots).
The Army solution was an additional NCO at the company or Platoon level. WE already push an Intel Support Team down to the company level to help deal with all of the low level intel that comes up during a COIN fight.
This is a combat proven solution. It really works- both services did something like this in Iraq or Afghanistan as pilots, and SOF does it routinely. The problem is that those Soldiers or Marines come from somewhere, and someone has to train them. If its an Infantry MOS that is cross-trained in sensors and intel, then they will lose some infantry skill. If its an intel guy assigned to the rifle company, they will lose some intel skills.
In terms of manpower, you are talking about adding an additional NCO allocation for every rifle squad in the corps. Rough beer math tells me that is at least 700 Marines (3 per platoon, 3 platoons coy, 3 boys per bn, etc). It would be over 2,000 Soldiers for the Army. It seems like a small number for the Corps as a whole, but Congress keeps the end strength at a cap, so those are 700 slots you have to take from somewhere.
“I could see one at platoon level, like a machinegunner or a sniper” or a droner, (dronnerman) as in one who drones.
I thought that was what the Good Idea Fairy did through the five-sided funny farm.
Hand receipts are getting for expensive all the time.
I’m with Jonn on this. Put them at the platoon level.
An infantry squad in contact doesn’t need one of its Marines with his head down while screwing around with the controls of a tactical UAV.
The Marines could just re-train all those PR folks they maintain at the squad level to also operate the UAV’s.
“Is that a drone in your pocket or are you happy to see me?”
I see the general has been reading my posts for nearly a decade on the internet about how the corps needs insect sized drones at the squad level. Smart guy.
Sorry, john. The corps does most things at the squad level. Platoon level is where good ideas go to complete shit.
Briefs well, but there are a ton of issues that a squad won’t be able to handle. Batteries alone are an issue..
Gotta admit, however, that a pocket drone would definitely fuck up Haji’s day.
“Shaheed! We are well concealed! The infidels will never find us without wasting all their ammo and creating much collateral damage!”
Surprise, motherfucker!
What happened to the Raven?
They all lost the link with their controlling stations and flew off into the sunset.
Nevermore!
Sure beats sending Private Tentpeg up a tree or a rooftop to see what he can see.
Easy fix. Just an additional duty for the Slackman.
The Slackman doesn’t have enough to do to keep him busy anyway./sarc
How much does this drone and its accompanying equipment weigh? How bulky is it? How does the operator move and operate the drone at the same time without stepping in a hole? How many squad drones will be in the air at the same time and how does the platoon/company commander sort through all the incoming reports, which are sure to be contradictory/overlapping/redundant?
Put two or three in the Wpns. Platoon & assign as needed, if needed.
You’ve hit on the major issues.
Both the Army and Marines have been experimenting with this for years- the Marines have an experimental task force out at 29 Palms and the Army has an experimental force at Benning for Infantry and a whole Brigade out at Bliss that does annual evaluations of stuff like this.
The outcome is usually recommendations of how many, what level, doctrine, TTP, etc.
Everyone wants more information, but they forget that someone has to process it and figure out what it means.
That said, these things are short range, and give the small tactical unit leader a look around the corner or over the hill. More of a reconnaissance tool than an intel sensor per se.
Commanders descretion. Corps doesn’t micro manage so no need to get officers involved. These types of drones would be wasted on higher. The whole point is to give marines in the field doing or looking for shit immediate live battle space awareness. If the CO wants something he’s got his own headquarters support for that.
The Army doesn’t micromanage either. The emphasis is on mission type orders, allowing leaders at all levels to determine the best way to accomplish the mission given their view of the battlefield.
I agree that these assets would be wasted at above about the platoon level, but you either give someone in the squad or platoon an extra job or you provide someone new to do that job. That either means less people somewhere else or someone with two jobs and extra stuff to carry.
I’ve seen these used pretty effectively, and I think that we should definitely get them down to the lowest possible tactical level.
There is a lot of discussion about the ‘arms room’ concept, basically meaning that you equip the small tactical unit with a variety of tools and allow leaders at that level decide what to take based on the mission.
I meant Commander’s intent not discretion.
Next thing you know they’ll be catching PTSD like the Air Force operators, wanting medals and getting carpal tunnel syndrome. …
If handled and organized correctly, it would be a major asset – especially in an urban environment.
The ‘drone op’ would need not be ‘only’ that. A rifleman when the drone is not needed.
A key factor is usage of the UAVs capabilities by an experienced Infantryman’s mind.
Keep in mind that our enemies are already doing this:
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2016/09/jund-al-aqsa-uses-drone-to-drop-small-bomb-on-syrian-regime-forces.php
The Army (and I’m sure the Marines) are already looking at tactical counter drone systems. Luckily the off the shelf stuff is pretty easy to jam, but you have to know they are there…
If they can figure it out so can we. I think the problem with the Tier I UAVs so far is that even though we want them at the small unit level, we keep adding requirements so that what we end up with is a system that takes a lot of training, maintenance, and time to operate effectively.
What we need are micro UAVs,not much different from what you can buy at Wal Mart right now. We don’t have to worry about interdiction, because the threat these would be most effective against doesn’t have the capability. If we avoid making it a program of record and keep buying them off the shelf costs will stay down, and industry will deal with all the R&D and other costs.
If we make it a Program of Record it will take 10 years to make, there will be 4 service variants which make none of them work well for anyone, and it will be obsolete before it is fielded.
Bring back pigeons such as Cher Ami (Dear Friend). This little guy saved many Allied troops in WW1, in 1918 I think, near the end of the war, and is honored for doing so to this day. Strap a tiny camera, about the size of a grain of rice or larger (assuming such technology is currently available or on the horizon) to them and let them go. Far fetched? I’m thinking not so much. I’m being only slightly sarcastic here. Is such technology available or will it soon be? The military has attempted to recruit the help of animal species over the years with varying results. In many instances public uproar resulted in some programs being stopped. I think one study involved strapping munitions on a dolphin/porpoise and hoping it could damage an enemy ship. Yeah, I’m surprised there was an uproar re this.
Oh, I’m not suggesting this would replace a drone in any meaningful capacity (maybe in NO capacity), just throwing it out for youse guys to chow down on if so inclined.