Ingraham: For every gun used in self-defense, six more are used to commit a crime
We talked about Christopher Ingraham last year when he furiously scribbled in his coloring book (the Washington Post) last summer about the metrics of mass shooting statistics. He thought some subReddit group had a better measure for tracking mass shootings than the FBI. The FBI counted three dead victims as a mass shooting, but the Reddit group counted four victims (dead or otherwise) including the gun man.
Checking on the stories that they were counting as “mass shootings” we found some of our “feel good stories” where citizens defended themselves from criminals were classified as mass shootings.
Well, today we find Ingraham in the Post complaining that only one in six shootings result from people defending themselves from criminals – so self-defense isn’t a good enough reason to own a gun.
Looking at what happened after people took action to prevent a crime, Hemenway and Solnik found that people were far better off either running away, or calling the cops if possible, rather than attempting to stop a crime with a gun. “Running away and calling the police were associated with a reduced likelihood of injury after taking action; self-defense gun use was not,” they write.
Yeah, well, Ingraham should read our feel good stories every morning instead of simply looking at statistics. Those are real stories about real people whose lives were saved because they were able to defend themselves in situations that were not of their choosing. Just because it doesn’t happen enough times to satisfy the gun grabbers like Ingraham, that doesn’t mean that folks shouldn’t be able to defend themselves in the world that people like Ingraham have created for us.
I guess he’d be happier if 100% of guns were used to commit crimes. Another breathless alarmist afraid of guns.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists
Another hipster douche lecturing the rest of us about how it “should” be and not addressing how it really is.
Must be triple soy latte drinking buddies with GERSH KUNTZMAN… and card carrying members of the Mangina Hipster Fanboy Club!
I’m going to put this here, because it is pure bullshit: ““Running away and calling the police were associated with a reduced likelihood of injury after taking action; self-defense gun use was not….”
The beginning of June, a young couple were taking an evening stroll through the Gold Coast in Chicago. They were held up at gunpoint by four gangbangers, and tried to run from them. They headed toward Lake Shore Drive and the gangbangers followed. The young woman was struck by a pickup truck and killed. Here’s the story.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-lake-shore-drive-death-20160603-story.html
No, running away does NOT save lives unless you’re in the path of a traffic accident, a tsunami or a landslide.
And on top of that, if you call the police, you wait on average 22 minutes? for them to show up.
Most Cops in my neck of the woods actually LIKE to see honest citizens carrying . As a Cop myself , since 1981 , I encourage folks to carry because I realize that when seconds count –the Police are just minutes away .
To all my Brothers on TAH , Carry and practice . In a gunfight there are no second place finishers .
Succinctly and well put! Looks the part, don’t he? Bet he has a Prius.
Another lying pussy! figures don’t lie but liars figure! That a.h. doesn’t count the literal tens of thousands of incidents that are stopped, of attacks that are stopped, of break ins that are stopped just be a victim had a gun in their hand but didn’t have to use it…displaying it was enough…..these lying bas-ards, I am sick of them!
Eat a bowl, Ingraham. Eat a big, steaming bowl of dicks. Wait, you might be into that…
Add cat doots to that. They’re crunchy and good with mustard.
Out here we call em’ Kitty Roca. If you ever ate Almond Roca you will get the picture.
Mr. ingraham and his ilk are all very confused about what constitutionally protected rights mean. It doesn’t matter whether or not Mr. Ingraham thinks it reasonable that people own firearms, the founder built the country knowing that government is the true enemy of the people and the government can’t be trusted to provide 24/7 security from criminal acts nor does any sane person want the government be to be so intrusive as to provide that protection. I’m tired of the same silly nonsense from these people who count suicides and drug turf war deaths the same as the poor victims in Orlando. Death by your own hand or while fighting over street corners to sell drugs is hardly in the same category as being gunned down in an nightclub. Suicide and drug war deaths won’t be stopped by any measure of gun control. That’s a hard simple truth. The means to reduce both of those causes of death are far more difficult to address than a simple change in the rules for people who will never use a firearm to kill themselves or fight in a drug turf war. That leaves us with how to address a tragedy like Orlando. Perhaps removal from the terror watch list should be a slightly more involved process than an interview. Perhaps being placed on it originally should be a slightly more difficult process. Perhaps we should start recognizing that our current crop of mass murderers seem to prefer a specific ideology and factor that into the presence and removal from a terror watch list. It’s quite certain that platitudes about law abiding citizens do nothing to address any of the realities discussed in my response, but they make for great headlines for those publications that employ the likes of Mr. Ingraham. Too few people read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn these days because the Soviet Boogeyman is no longer taken as seriously as he once was….his words and thoughts about being disarmed however remain as relevant today as they were then in Gulag Archipelago…. And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things… Read more »
I love the Solzhenitsyn quote, but be careful-Lars says that we are giant wusses for being worried about Communists (or any strain of totalitarian-for that matter, since their motives matter little as their methods are always the same) and he’s clearly wiser and more learned than someone like the great Russian author.
Lars went to Berkeley, you know.
Well some assholes also state that the founders only talked about muskets…not more modern weapons…it’s all relative.
The musket was the standard infantry weapon of its day, so using that logic the founder felt that the local populace should carry at least the same basic rifle as the average infantryman. That would make the local populace far harder to control by any form of totalitarian government, commie, socialist, or fascist or theocracy.
Actually, the Pennsylvania Long Rifle was quite superior to the Brown Bess musket. It is clear that our Founding Fathers were quite happy with civilians possessing superior weapons.
As much as I despise what the “Oathkeeper” movement has become, I agree with the original premise, “There was no expiration date on my Oath to protect this nation. BTW, there are no conditions on the Pledge of Allegiance either.
People using the “musket” nonsense are disregarding the fact that the supreme court put that to rest along with the “militia” terminology no less than three times already…personal defense modern weapons…talking with anyone that doesn’t accept that has no basic understanding of the current lawful right to bear arms.
Better to set something on fire shoot it and drink some whiskey than speak with such a dullard.
They’re also ignoring the fact that at the time the Constitution was written the term “militia” referred to all able-bodied free males between the ages of roughly 17 and 45 – and had for a century or more. Ditto Federal law, starting in the 1790s. Plus the fact that the US Code todat explicitly defines the unorganized militia to consist of all legal resident males between the ages of 17 and 62.
Careful Hondo, if you bring that up someone will fight to claim that US Code is endorsing “slavery” and should be changed since no one should be expected to stand up and fight for the country if they don’t want to.
The idea that the founders did not foresee private citizens having top grade military weapons is shown to be false by the term “letters of marque and reprisal” found in Article I, Section 8, clause 11. If Privateers were not to have naval artillery, how were they supposed to take prizes?
I realize that expecting lefties to actually know what is in the Constitution is asking a lot, but there it is for all the world to see.
Maybe President Obama should ship a C-130 loaded with muskets to the next batch of “moderate freedom fighters” that he wants to arm in the Middle East.
The problem is, it will cost us 100 million per plane load after all the pay offs and contracts get done, and all the senior officials get their check for it too.
“Mr. ingraham and his ilk are all very confused about what constitutionally protected rights mean.”
Yep. The irony that people such as him are using their constitutionally protected rights (1st Amendment) to try to trash another amendment.
I’d be curious to know how many people have died as a result of the 1st Amendment (online bullies, violence incited by something someone read or wrote, and so on).
Would he give up his 1st Amendment rights to save lives?? Didn’t think so.
Or any internet video that “allegedly” incited Libyans to attack our consulate. But what difference does that make?
You know, there’s just no reasoning with the hoplophobes because you can’t reason a man out of a position that he didn’t reason himself into.
Molon Labe fuckers! If you’re not prepared to come and take them, just shut up-your blather is meaningless otherwise.
“Running away and calling the police were associated with a reduced likelihood of injury after taking action; self-defense gun use was not.”
Yeah? Good luck outrunning a bullet if your assailant is armed and determined, bud.
Sheesh. Simple common sense, apparently unknown in academia: if you can safely get out of a bad situation by leaving and contact the police, by all means do so. Most people who keep their wits about them likely do if they can. But when the perp has you trapped and a safe departure isn’t an option, defending yourself is the only option left. And if the perp is armed, even with only a knife or club, your chances are kinda slim if you’re not armed and they know what they’re doing.
How well does running away work for the elderly or the infirm?
After years of hard beating on my ankles it takes me a few minutes of warmups to get up to normal running speed for an old guy…which is sadly a lot slower than I was at 20 or 30 or even 40-50….so where does my obligation to try and outrun an in shape home invader/would be robber/ etc…. end and my right to shoot his criminal ass dead begin?
Here in PRoM it’s a sketchy issue on almost every level, but I’m going to shoot anyway because I want to live. These people who advocate the run and hide approach to life just fucking amaze me.
They must lead awfully fucking boring lives, lots of talking and very little action….numbnuts…adrenaline probably frightens the shit out of these clowns.
VOV, I don’t give a damn if someone’s a world-class athlete – they’re not going to outrun a round from a freaking BB-gun, much less a firearm. And even if someone could, there are situations where running isn’t an option because the assailant has the only available exits either blocked or under observation.
I can’t agree with Zapata politically, but he got this one right: “It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.”
Yeah I’m with Zapata on that as well, I have zero intention of going quietly into that long good night…
“adrenaline probably frightens the shit out of these clowns.”
See previous post on “Cuntsman”
If my family is threatened, I will run…to the nearest defensible position with good cover and clear fields of fire. Then I will engage the threat until it ceases to be one.
When you say PRoM, are you referring to Maryland or Massachusetts? Because, I could go either way.
He explains the deaths in Chicago from shootings, the ‘victims’ were running away while calling the popo and the amberlamps.
Gary Kleck amd Mark Gertz have refuted every single one of the Hemenway’s claims in the study sited.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082
good read.
One in six shootings in self defense.
He can be 2 through 6 – I’ll be the ONE. No loss to me.
How many in Orlando called the cops or ran away? Worse yet, how many just stood or sat there while getting shot?
I WILL defend myself and mine or die trying and these little pussi-bois that are scared of water pistols need to stay out of MY business and leave my constitutional rights alone. ..
If you view the video that was posted, from the inside of the club, the young lady doing the selfie video didn’t even recognize the gunshots as gunshots. Sadly, she didn’t survive the encounter.
Fucking lemmings…panem et circenses ring a bell?
truth^^^^
Tired of these Douchegnard sissies and their obfuscations…all I can say is…Molon Labe beeyotch
WaPo says I reached my limit on free articles for the month and since I will not pay to read trash, I can’t respond to Ingraham. I’m sure that the article is based on the 2015 Hemenway and Solnik survey in which the researchers conceded that “the survey includes ‘”no specific questions about self-defense gun use.”” If so, Reason.com pointed out the obvious and comical problem with that:“That’s a pretty big flaw for a study aimed at measuring self-defense gun use.” If you want a few more laughs, here’s the link to Reason.com which lays waste to the silly survey.
http://reason.com/blog/2015/09/07/a-survey-thats-not-designed-to-measure-d
These are the same asshats that sount 2 gangbangers killing each other within a block of a school “a school shooting”.
I was doing a report in undergrad on school shootings. Ho Lee Crap…they were including any and all shootings including domestic violence/burglaries etc at home or between the school and home if a student/teacher/other school employee lived there, anything to increase the numbers. There were 93,000 public schools at the time, the vast majority of which had no history whatsoever of a shooting, i.e. less than 1%.
I talked to a few LAPD when I was stationed in LA about “school” crimes.
Often, they will add the extra charges of “within 1000 feet of a school” to a crime because those offer more severity than regular crimes. Be it guns, drugs, drinking, etc.
Even if it didn’t have anything to do with the school, it was within 1000 feet of one and that makes it worse. But statistics won’t show “within 1000 feet because that was a better way to put the perp away longer.”
And in LA, there’s a school on almost every block.
That was one of my points in the paper…these events when they do happen tend to cluster…just like other violent crimes and do not represent any central tendency across the US
Ms. Ingraham and Ms. Kuntzman were created in the same Petri dish at the cloning lab.
Where are these limp-wristed jackwagons coming from? Are they getting these slacker positions because no one else will hire someone with a degree in a nothing education?
Dear God, they’re afraid of their own shadows. And these are exactly the people who would drop to their knees and kowtow to the headsman, crying ‘Please don’t hurt me.’
I’ll be they’re all allergic to peanut butter because Mommy told them they were.
Obviously, the petri dish contained a residual strain of resistant gonococcus
I’m thinking more mercury (linked to mental retardation) and estrogen (testosterone antagonist). But I you could be right.
Very good, your comment contains more linear goal oriented thought and a possible causal link to their demented state. I was just being dirty…but disseminated gonorrhea can also damage the CNS. lol
These two are dropping to their knees, but I don’t think its to say “please don’t hurt me” its more like “I’ll suck your dick, just don’t be mean to me.”
I don’t buy into it….do we have shootings? yes.
But I see the media ( left leaning) as blowing this out of context in the leftest crusade to abolish or gut the second Amendment.
I have a problem with the AMA proclaiming this to be a “public health crisis” while overlooking ( perhaps intentionally? Wag the dog, anyone) the public health crisis in thier own skeleton filled closets.
Over 400,000 deaths annually due to healthcare errors in this nation.
At the current rate ( assuming about 30,000 deaths a year)it will take more than 13 years for shootings to kill what healthcare providers manage to do in 12 months.
I am less concerned with what an inanimate object will do to me.
What I am concerned about, is what a healthcare provider will do to me.
Doc, don’t forget that 30,000 number includes 21,000 firearm suicides and there is zero statistical evidence available internationally to substantiate a tighter control of firearms with a lower suicide rate…so those numbers won’t change in any significant fashion regardless of firearm control.
Consequently the actual number of firearms murders is less than 10,000 or about 40% of how many people die from falling down each year…but hey even one death is too many, except it’s really not as your numbers point out. Because hospital errors are far more easily addressed than changing the constitution, but no one seems to mind the fact that a little over 1 tenth of 1 % of the population is killed by the very institution designed to save them each year…the real problem is the 3 ten thousandths of a percent…
VOV, there’s actually hard evidence that gun control makes absolutely no difference re: suicide. See the Harvard (!) study I linked at
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=37307
Thank you for providing the link to the hard data, it’s clear from the rates of suicide in Japan that gun control has no bearing on suicide rates.
However, it’s a convenient meme for the dumbasses currently populating the nation. These young folks seem easily led. Perhaps it’s all the participation awards for doing nothing except showing up and the constant wearing of bike helmets and knee and elbow pads while outdoors…it leads to less than masculine guys like Gersh Kuntzman…
I have the study favorited in my firefox to keep for response. I haven’t gotten any responses to it other than a couple of “oh that’s bullshit because I read this one thing….”
I’d think if it was a bogus study, especially being that it is Harvard, they would take it down because it refutes gun control as counter-productive.
Don’t forget the AMA also lauded the ACA. They had all sorts of approval statements, none of which ever contained an explanation why they actually thought the ACA was a good idea. It was ridiculous to read the it’s good because we say so BS they were releasing.
And their rag JAMA often contains ridiculous articles pertaining to guns. The arguments on the FB page are hilarious.
Spot on. They conveniently forget about that massive cancerous tumor on their credibility.
I think it’s only a ‘health care’ crisis because it costs money to treat gunshot wounds or have the coroner create a medical report. Also, it’s easier to point a finger at a tangible object like GUNNZZZ than it is to analyze 400,000+ deaths per year from bad medicine.
SINCE WHEN has the Washington [com]Post ever been anything other than a far left propaganda outlet? Ingraham and Kuntzman, crack test tube babies that turned out to be snot-spined wussnoramus candyasses with no grip on reality. If strict Gun Control Laws are the panacea that dicklicks like them say, then I challenge them to take a solo walk at night through certain places in Chicago, DC, or NJ SANS any armed protection whatsoever.
Hey, even a stopped clock is right twice daily.
However . . . this isn’t one of those times.
Well we shouldn’t surprised they lied out of there ass to destroy our healthcare now they figure we are dumb enough to fall for there dumb shit again. my wife’s left wing crazy friends seem to be on the same page as a lot of us here and that being FUCK gun control and Bomb ISIS Lol…
bet Obummer didn’t see that one coming
He is also wrong. Kleck says that there are a minimum of 760,000 defensive gun uses in the US per year.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/19/researcher-reaffirms-at-least-760000-defensive-gun-uses-a-year/
So this guy Ingraham is not only a bed wetter but an ill informed bed wetter.
You also have to look at the silent deterrent that an armed citizenry poses to criminals. Home invasions in Houston Texas are only perpetrated when the crook has good reason to believe that the home is empty. I got robbed 2 days after telling the US post office to hold my mail for a week. I had been in that apartment for 2 years. The HPD officer told me it was just a crook working the area. I say Bullshit.
I think the one item missing here is that we all have a choice. We can choose to own weapons, because we have a right to do so, or we can choose to NOT own weapons, because we also have THAT right.
No one is forcing a GUNNNZZ down the weeping throats of these braindead cat doots, but they appear to be addicted to the fear adrenaline rush they get when the word GUNNZZZ is mentioned. Since GUNNZZ and BUNNZZZ sound the same, I wonder how they’d react if they were told that the right to own BUNNZZZ is protected by law. After all a fresh BUNNZZ folded over can squirt jam and butter right in your face and get all over your expensive, overpriced off-the-rack designer clothes.
I long for the day when these cat doots will be seen with butter spots on their flapping pants, and the coffee shop is fresh out of the superlarge sized cups, and latte goes out of style. Whatever will they do?
You know what the lemmings say about gun rights.
Their right to safety > your right to own
As if depriving legal gun owners of their right will increase anybody’s inherent safety from criminal acts. It does fit on a bumper sticker though, which equates to validity for liberals
What the doofus overlooked is that thousands of crimes are prevented simply because criminals know that certain establishments have proprieters that will put an extra hole in them.
There are also areas where criminals know a lot of the population could be armed. They stay away from them.
Amen to that, let’s not forget that VATech, the movie theater in Aurora and that nightclub were ALL “Gun-Free Zones” which perps view as free fire zones chock full of unarmed VICTIMS.
H.L. Mencken once wrote that to be a good journalist, you needed to have the instincts of a bartender, a police lieutenant, and a whorehouse madam. When I went to J-school after the Army, the kind of people I admired were either those who ventured in dangerous places and lived to write about it, or the type of fearless small-town editor who would keep a revolver, and bottle of whiskey in a desk drawer. There was a time when journalism might not have always been the most honorable profession, but at least it wasn’t a routine refuge for cowards and fools.
Part of the problem with people like Ingraham, aside from having the resolve of little girls, is that they don’t seem to understand that the pieces of the Constitution are interlocking and not simply discrete elements. If you get rid of the 2nd Amendment, you’re setting up the fall of the 4th Amendment, and the establishment of a surveillance state. Once that happens, you can also kiss the 1st Amendment goodbye.
There has been a long line of those over the past 200 years who have made sure that hasn’t happened by paying an enormous price in blood. So that Ingraham can voice his opinion.
Pearls before swine.
1. Don’t insult the resolve of little girls by comparing them to this douche.
2. Lefties give not the tiniest shit about any of our Constitutional rights. Lefties care about power and there’s not a single bit of the Constitution that they wouldn’t sweep away in an instant if doing so would bring them the smallest amount of control over other people.
This Ingraham fellow has obviously never spoken to a street cop in his sheltered life. As my uncle (34 years in law enforcement) says, “Cops are historians. We show up after it’s over and document what happened before we got there.”
My polling is a little unscientific, but it says that for every gun used in the commission of a crime another ten are enjoyed recreationally for the entirety of their lives.
That number is probably low, and I’d imagine that ratio is considerably more skewed toward recreation if we limit it only to AR-style rifles.
How many guns are legally owned in the United States again? Over 300 million? 6 times the amount of that are gun crimes according to that slug?
Shit.
Somebody get that guy back on his meds ASAP.
I wonder if GERSH KUNTZMAN and Christopher Ingraham meet up every other weekend to scissorgrind their undersized man clits together and collapse in a sweaty mixture of female ejaculate and baby oil.
“for every 1 gun used for self defense, 6 more are used to commit crimes.”
And that 1 gun owner probably complied with all relevant federal state and local laws in obtaining their firearm (NOT ‘gun’)
How many of those 6 went through any sort of background check, bought it from a licensed dealer, etc?
When you can get those 6 off the street, then you can worry about my 1
I propose the we have all leftnuts neutered and spayed. Then they won’t be adding their cesspit genes to the pool.
Oh, damn! That is SO mean of me! OOOOOOoooo!