Donald Trump and the military
Several days ago, during one of the debates, presidential candidate Donald trump made this comment about his anticipated relationship with the Defense Department, according to the Washington Post;
“They won’t refuse,” Trump said during Thursday’s debate on Fox News. “They’re not going to refuse me, believe me. If I say do it, they’re going to do it. That’s what leadership is all about.”
Well, if he’s talking about issuing illegal orders, he’s wrong. The leaders in the Pentagon all the way down to the lowest shit-burning private have a duty to disobey illegal orders. In the Post, they quote Retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling who agrees with me;
“Somebody needs to remind Mr. Trump that the military is not his palace guards,” Hertling said. “They take an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. They also abide by the rules — not only of the uniform code of military justice, the UCMJ — but they also abide by the U.N. mandate against torture and the Geneva Convention protocols against torture.”
Trump doesn’t understand that the members of the military, individually swear allegiance to the Constitution and our system of laws, not to a single personality like the President;
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
I’ve said since Trump got into the race for the presidency, that he doesn’t understand the limits of the office and the statement above proves that, if he really believes it. But, then I don’t believe he’s even serious about most of the things he says. If you think that you’re going to get the same Trump that is a candidate when he’s elected, you’re in for a surprise.
Thanks to Chief Tango for the link.
Category: Politics
Not a big Trump fan. but at least he will not cut training/trigger time to have the rank and file walking around in wigs and lipstick wearing high heels for additional SHARP and EEO training. Not to mention rewriting rulebooks to make a name for himself like Mabus.
And all for the benefit of CNN and the SJW.
You will not find me talking up Trump either but I’ll vote for him if he’s it. Besides, he hires the pros, the specialists. Sure, he might take all of the credit for his business successes (and does) but no one man–or ten men–can do what he has done without a small army of specialists behind him. If he should be the nominee and then win, I am confident he’ll have the people to find the people to get the job done. That said, as God as my witness, I hope it is Cruz that is left standing.
WORD
Right there with ya!
Cruz is my first choice.
What if he doesn’t get the nomination?
You’re such a pessimist, IDC SARC. What if Cruz gets the Veep nod and Trump chokes on his own tie one morning?
Look on the bright side. The Donhair does have to have a backup, which is the Veep.
lol…it’s pessimistic to ask a question?
It was the way you said it, sweetie.
ohz….nah I was just curious regarding whether Cable Dawg was going to consider Trump if he gets the nomination. As I said I’m not a fan of Trump per se, but elections have been lost when a party doesn’t get behind the candidate.
Considering the Shrillary lust and urgency to fill the chair with a Vajayjay I doubt the GOP has a chance if the voting is splintered of aloof.
Yep. Every time you say it, I nod in agreement. Voting for Perot got us 8 years of Slick Willie. Mistakes are learning opportunities, for some.
To think that Cruz would lower himself to be The Donald’s running mate is living in La La land. Especially if they end up duking it out for the remaining delegates. Come on Ex-PH2, you’re smarter than that…. Oh, wait. NM.
This is your priorities?
An idiot like Trump because of some bullshit narrative you have created about soldiers walking around in wigs and lipstick.
Ridiculous.
These soldiers have proven themselves over a decade and a half of combat and people like you constantly try to claim they are suddenly all “soft” because of SHARP or EO training. Or because of your misogynistic animosity toward female soldiers being treated more equally in the ranks.
How many of you served your entire careers without ever setting foot in a combat zone? My bet is a significant number given the age demographics of this board and the fact that we had a 25 year period of almost no combat deployments.
Yet you disparage a generation of soldiers that have essentially served their entire careers during wartime.
Hey poodle dick, don’t forget that the majority of TAH Regulars HAVE deployed in harm’s way, I have THREE overseas tours myself and I’m sure I have spent more time on the shitter in between missions than you have total time outside the wire, pookums! SHARP and EO briefings are usually a big waste of time and I’ve also seen lots and plenty of times when someone’s EO complaint was little moe than either a case of butthurt or they were trying to use their gender to skate out of work.
And once agaim, Larsie plays the seagull.
Swoops in, shits on everything, struts around for a while, squawks for attention, and flies off.
Nice attempt and putting words in Jonn’s mouth that he didn’t say, but as usual, you fail.
I wrote about this a few days ago. He really is a hemorrhoid in the rectum of the nation! He doesn’t get it, and I – for one – will never vote for someone who thinks that the military will just follow whatever lamebrained order he pulls out of his fourth, because he has such an awesome personality!
Just no!
Vote for whomever you want based upon whatever criteria you wish. But don’t make the mistake of castigating someone who has not proved his willingness to do what others have already done.
If you do not see that the military does what they are ordered to do no matter how lame brained the order might be then you are not paying attention. The list of stupid is very long. We have all complained mightily about it.
I have no idea the context of his remarks, and certainly will neither defend nor condemn them. For all I know he was saying that he will order them to quit every activity which does not directly relate to readiness. Yes, the words are rather chilling, but they also reflect things already being done. Nothing new about the CinC acting like he is in command.
“I have no idea the context of his remarks” – perhaps a bit of reading on the issue before commenting would have helped in this instance. For example:
http://thelibertyzone.com/2016/03/04/no-they-will-not-obey-illegal-orders/
It was in response to “targeting terrorists’ families, and also the use of interrogation methods more extreme than waterboarding, the military will refuse because they’ve been trained to turn down and refuse illegal orders.”
If you do not see that the military will NOT obey an order to intentionally murder terrorist families, you must not have paid attention during annual training refreshers.
Well, duh. Thanks so much for pointing out the obvious, and utterly failing to understand simple English sentences.
“neither defend nor condemn” means exactly that. After I’ve researched the topic, I will form an opinion. Until then I don’t have one.
This post did NOT specify whether the mythical orders were legal or illegal. Rather than jump to conclusions, I clearly stated that I was not well informed on the subject.
Who pissed in your Cheerios?
It was two things: first, “For all I know he was saying that he will order them to quit every activity which does not directly relate to readiness.” That’s why I snarked about reading before commenting, because it would have been instantly clear.
Then second, the “nor condemn” part – because targeting non-combatants is and ought to be pretty thoroughly condemnable. I know I’d refuse that order, and I’d hope for support from others in that decision.
(And it was corned beef hash this morning, not Cheerios!)
Is this the first time anyone has accused you of being purposefully obtuse? The post above makes no mention of the stuff you wish to argue about, so aim your vitriol elsewhere. It serves no useful purpose to snark at anyone about things they state up front they do not know.
Whatever.
Dude, you act like Jonn was wrong with your “If you do not see that the military does what they are ordered to do no matter how lame brained the order might be then you are not paying attention.” But you admit you have NO IDEA WTF he’s talking about. Why put out like Jonn is some naive when two seconds of reading could show you he’s right? I’m calling you out for piping up when you have zero clues what you’re talking about, and you act like I’m being obtuse because “hey, I SAID that I have no idea what I’m talking about.” That’s not an argument, that’s an admission against interest.
Reading is fundamental. Targeting civilians merely because of whom they’re related to is ILLEGAL. And anyone who follows that order can be held legally responsible. I don’t know very many military members or vets who would follow that ILLEGAL order, genius. If you do, you might want to change the company you keep.
All politicians are hemorrhoids of the people of the US.
Hillary is a hemorrhoid that has evolved to the point of being edematous, erythematous, ulcerated, indurated, prolapsed and thrombosed. Surgical excision is the only option at this point.
Actually at this point, there’s nothing left except to nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
OK, I just got some seriously funny Walleye type footage visual in my head with that suggestion, Thanks, lol
Fuckin’ A….
I wasn’t going to comment on this, but what that little twist you put on that was racist, if you cant stick to the topic without that kind of talk, you are part of the problem.
Desert, You are a fucking douchebag!
Technically, Trump is correct. The military will follow the orders of the CIC. Jonn added what the WaPo and Hertling omitted regarding the oath of enlistment. Curiously, the WaPo did note that Hertling told CNN’s Cuomo Hertling’s reaction and clever retort but it failed to point out that Hertling is a CNN military analyst. I think that’s rather important to note. Hertling is about leadership. That’s his bread and butter, post retirement. He works for a Florida hospital and runs a program to train M.D.s on leadership, when he’s not working for CNN. I wonder what he had to say about his former boss, B. H(old the umbrella, Marine). Obama, when he was serving him. You will find it between these brackets [ ]. I have no use for such people.
I think the truth would hit a middle ground… he can issue illegal orders and there are those who would follow them, just as there have always been. One can hope if they are really noisome that at least some, if not most, of the military would do the right thing and refuse. Integrity is a funny thing – while there are those who seem to have none, it still pops up in the damnest places.
Commander Sal agrees with Trump on this one.
http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-sad-truth-about-illegal-orders.html#disqus_thread
Bottom Line is this: If the top leaders of the branches aren’t willing to fight for their troops and service branch right now under permissible conditions, what makes you think they’ll stand up to an unlawful order?
Under the current administration, any “leader” in uniform who had a position juxtapose to King Barry’s or Queen Valerie’s didn’t have a job for very long after.
I agree AC, and I would like to point out that although the ‘I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic’ clause is in multiple oaths (enlistment, reenlistment, Officer promotion, Sailor’s Creed), there is absolutely no training on the Constitution, what that phrase actually means, and the Rules of Engagement in its defense.
Anyone else ever notice how much he peppers his speeches with “…, believe me”, as if that makes him more credible? News flash: if you have to TELL us to believe you, because what you’re saying doesn’t have enough merit on its own, then just maybe you might want to consider just shutting up.
Like that’s ever gonna happen…
That’s just one of the tricky phrases. A couple of my faves the SCOAMF likes using ad nausea are, “Trust me,” along with my fave, “Let me be honest here…”
Any statement by a presidential candidate in an election year has an immediate expiration DTG.
All thrust no vector…..
“All thrust no vector”
Wait for it….
That’s what she said.
So, does the obverse hold true? Is H. Wide Load Clinton or her husband, BJ, or John “Jungle Stroll w/ Camerman” Kerry, or Harry “The Embalmed” Reid or Nancy “Mega Botox” Pelosi or any one of hundreds and hundreds of politicians and wannabees more credible b/c they don’t use the pet phrase “Believe me?” If not, then the point is lost to me.
You must think that I like the clowns you listed because I’m bashing Trump. Nothing could be further from the truth. But aside from that, I would argue that my point stands: if you have to TELL people to believe you, what you are saying must not be that convincing.
PS: there is a ‘reply’-button under the comments for a reason. It keeps conversational threads neatly organized. 🙂
No, please don’t tell me what I must think. The point I made was a logical one and you have not responded to that point.Whether you do or not, I don’t much care. I made my point. If he is to be disbelieved because he punctuates some of his rhetoric with “Believe me” then, to you, I guess it’s true that other pols and would-be pols are more credible because they don’t. And your cute p.s, pointing out where the reply button is located, is a perfect illustration of the alternatives that you evidently don’t entertain. In this case, the alternative (and valid) explanation is error on my part, not ignorance of the reply button’s location.
one last point. Look at L. Taylor’s comment, if you can stomach it. That’s what decent America is up against, in my view. And if it takes a big mouth snake such as Trump to slow the other side, I’ll vote for him.
“That’s what decent America is up against, in my view.”
Your saying “decent America” is on the side of Trump? Yikes. Thank goodness this “decent America” is simply an incredibly outspoken minority.
Here’s what will happen (hint it’s the sequel to Romney 2012 only with bigger stakes): Trump, or possibly Cruz, will win the GOP nomination and promptly get trounced by Clinton. Read all the conservative wishful thinking you want. The numbers, like in 2012, will not and cannot add up to a GOP victory. In order to win, the GOP MUST!! convince moderates/non-whites/women to vote for them. There isn’t enough angry white people to win the election outright. Having the choice be between an misogynistic demagogue and an ultra right wing evangelical obstructionist, isn’t going to earn the GOP any more votes. Ergo, another GOP loss and a new liberal Supreme count judge (that also will give SCOTUS a liberal majority). Ya’ll will love that! The real decent America won’t let your “decent America” win. You don’t have the numbers and thankfully majority wins.
Hey Bitter Pill. Thanks for YOUR insight. YOU’RE a peach. Take notes.
Decent America is opposed to Wide Load and the Old Commie. That’s what I am saying. Cripes, can’t you read? Because decent America is opposed to Wide Load and the Old Commie, the opponent of whichever of those two is awarded the Dem/Marxist?Progressive nomination will have my vote.
Ohhh i understand. So your voting out of spite. That makes sense. Confusion and anger can make you do crazy things. But I like it, Fight the Liberals Freedom Caucus style. “If we don’t get what we want, we’ll burn the whole thing to the ground.” That’s the healthy way for Americans to vote. Trump 2016! I hate liberals so much I’ll willingly help destroy the country!
Oh, great. Another commenter with serious reading comprehension issues.
I don’t hate liberals. I am merely waiting for them to grow up. And I’m not being spiteful in preferring any Republican to any Democrat nominee. The latter will most certainly continue with the marxist/commie/progressive agenda while the former may or may not be a disappointment. And say, do you bear a grudge against the contraction you’re?
Lord have mercy. It’s hilarious that both the fringes of the right and left hold the unshakable faith that there is a conspiratorial agenda in play (always against them!). During the Bush it was the PNAC – a vast, far reaching right wing conspiracy of neo colonialism, now it’s some completely unfounded belief that we are turning to Communism/Marxism…seriously Marxism!? WTF. I’ll get in the lab and clone Joseph McCarthy. He’d love all this! Hell, he would make the perfect GOP running mate.
But I digress, we should, out of caution for the livelihoods of decent god fearing white people let Trump or Cruz have a go at it.
Bitter Pill. I do not disgusting marxism and socialism any longer. I leave that to the leftist intelligentsia to enjoy. besides, one is merely the necessary growth point in the development of the other, according to the marxist theorists. And when it comes to the so-called progressives, there are no Republicans among them, are there? Progressive is a euphemism, making the commies more palatable to the largely ignorant citizenry. Of course there are agendas, and the marxist/socialist/progressive one of the Democratic party is not the stuff of fiction or of wild imagination. (Yeah, “Trust me. This won’t hurt a bit.”) No thanks.
Somehow, perps c/o a Freudian slip, distinguish (intended) became disgusting (unintended.)
Funny thing about good old Joe; he was right. The Venona transcripts bear that out, so when leftist tools cry “McCarthyism!”, I take it for the ignorant dumbasses they are.
“So your voting out of spite.”
No, voting from a retired military, educated, active workforce, parent’s point of view that knows Hillary will only perpetuate the same policies of the current administration that I do not support.
Word.
If this is your idea of victory, take it. A Clinton victory, and you’ll get a real good idea what Ayn Rand meant by “going Galt.”
Who’s gonna pay for your free shit then?
We get this guy as CinC, we better get a Congress to hold his ass in line. We’re already short one of the Supremes.
The guy is an idiot. A narcissistic sociopath piece of shit.
The comparisons to Hitler are legitimate, though he is closer to Mussolini.
They are the exact same personality types. Mao, Kim Il Sung, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler and dozens more throughout history.
They all have one thing in common; devastation to their society or they die trying.
I would never follow his orders. But history proves many will.
Even some on this board are willing to support him. Makes me sick. It is the same as someone saying they would support Hitler in 1932.
And it is those types of people that would throw the remnants of our democracy away. Authoritarian personality sycophants.
So, he may sound like a moron when he says the military will follow his insane orders but history shows they may very well do so. Especially if he uses anti-Islamic/Muslim bigotry as a source of support and initially targets only Muslims.
Many would follow orders to target Muslims. And based on comments on this board many are WAITING for an order like that.
Well, there ya go! If Lars is agin him, that’s pretty much a good reason to support him.
Naw, that would be too easy. Lars’ reasons are pretty funny, though. And completely wrong, as usual.
Oh fuck off, Lars, you shit stain on Bernath’s underwear.
I think many would not follow his orders but many would. Historically refusing to follow the orders of idiots like this has not stopped armies from mobilizing.
True. Look at the idiot in the WH now.
Many on this board would say the same thing, except change Trump to “Hillary” and he to she. (Though she allegedly has a bigger dick than trump?)
At the least, he has tens of thousands of employees. Hillary doesn’t have a value added anything for this country.
Au Contraire, just think of all the lawyers that the Clintons keep in business! 😀
Which is not necessarily a net positive, I think.
Well if we could put the hundreds of lawyers covering for the Clintons at the bottom of the sea, that’d be….
wait for it?
a good start.
Badum-tish!
Andy Warhol’s corollary to Godwin’s Law:
In the future, everyone will be Hitler for 15 minutes.
I see you’re getting your talking points these days from the President of Mexico.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_MEXICO_TRUMP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-03-07-14-42-28
It doesn’t make him wrong.
Yes it does, since they are both wrong.
The Hitler thingy is getting really worn out. Whenever someone has a differing viewpoint than the commies; immediately they’re “Hitler”. Really? That’s all you’ve got? When Trump gets around to exterminating 12 million people; let me know and I’ll agree that he’s “Hitler”. Until then, change your panties and stop wetting them.
Reductio ad Hitlerum…so common it has its own label in rhetoric. A specific form of reductio ad absurdum.
See also “Godwin’s Law”.
No, I have been comparing Trump to Mussolini for years. Even before he ran for office. They are so similar it is astonishing.
And I have compared Trump to Mussolini on this board in the last year.
Read your history Lars, Mussolini never held a steady job and was part of the socialist movement in Italy prior to founding the fascist party there. YOUR boy Bernie is at least a thousand times more similar to Mussolini than Trump who has successfully made it in the private sector where YOU never have done so. WHERE has Sanders ever made a living outside of Government?
You lose yet again, o ill-educated poodle pecker.
I’M BALLS DEEP FOR BERNIE!
I’M BALLS DEEP FOR BERNIE!
I’M BALLS DEEP FOR BERNIE!
This is a PSA from L. Taylor, who’s BALLS DEEP FOR BERNIE!!!
I was only talking about Trumo in this. Sorry if my telling the truth about your shitty candidate struck a nerve.
But Trump is a shitbag and you would have to be a complete and irredeemable moron to not see it.
Then how do you manage to see it, Lars, since you are the perfect example of a complete and irredeemable moron?
Yet, I keep scoring in the genius range on tests constructed to measure intelligence.
Lary Taylor,
Another high achieving MESNA alum.
Care for some cheese with that whine? I know where you could get 7 lbs.
OOPS. Too late.
😉
Genius does not mean one does the right thing, or is successful at anything all the time. If it makes you feel smarter than anyone else, you are already wrong.
http://www.examiner.com/article/22-serial-killers-with-high-iqs
Yanno…you’re not supposed to keep taking them, right? They tend to lose validity once you gain familiarity with them. lol
And genius/intelligence doesn’t equal common sense…
Commissar, I’ve met and seen plenty of “Geniuses” like you that couldn’t even pour piss out of a boot with illustrated instructions, and YES I’ll take fries and a hot apple pie with my meal, now FETCH!
I agree with you about trump, but if that is who is nominated against the democrats, I will vote for him. I hope you will not like it. Tough shit. Consider it the unintended consequence for the last eight years.
As usual, Lars old Poodle, your misunderstanding of the subject matter is sticking out like a sore thumb.
Trump is not a sociopath. He’s a blustering blowhard. He’s not an idiot. He’s a successful businessman. Are you?
If you dislike him because he’s a gazillionaire and you aren’t, tough bananas. His two adult children work just as hard as their Daddy has.
Most of Trump’s speechifyin’ is campaign twaddle and he knows it. He has yet to do anything as stupid as some of the things you yourself have said.
What I dislike about him is that he does not address issues, but then neither does that old fart Sanders or shrillary. They simply pander to the lowest common denominator.
For your information, Poodle, if I earn a good living working for myself, I see no earthly reason that I should be expected to hand over more than half of it to a bunch of societal parasites, but that’s what those two commie bastards want to do: take YOUR income and give it to other people who are too fucking lazy or stupid to get training for real jobs, because you see, when you rob the rich who busted their butts to make something of themselves, for the sole purpose of giving THEIR money to the parasitic poor, it is for the sole purpose of keeping those parasitic slobs exactly where they are: in poverty. And the next time you can take your cortege through their neighborhoods, you can throw more money at them. They’ll love you as long as you throw money at them. If you haven’t figured that out yet, you’re nt real bright.
And for those who think Trump would actually give an illegal order, uh-uh. He’s a lot of things, including an arrogant prick and frequently a bully, and he wants his name on everything he does, but has he once actually said he’s going to do something like give an illegal order? I haven’t come across that yet.
Trump is absolutely a narcissistic sociopath. As textbook as ever existed. Denying that he is a sociopath completely negates your credibility.
Hillary is a narcissist and mad power hungry, but she’s still the leading candidate for the democrats.
“Trump is absolutely a narcissistic sociopath”.
Lars, in your case thats like the pot calling the kettle black.
Lars, you want another narcissistic sociopath? Try your hero B. Hussein 0bama, he fits that to a “T” as well! He DOES have one accomplishment, he’s played more rounds of golf than any other POTUS in U.S. History! He skipped on attending the funerals for a U.S. Army Major General that was KIA, Justice Scalia, and now he’s skipping out on being present at Nancy Resgan’s funeral to attend some glowbull wormening tech festival in Austin.
And let’s not forget about Margaret Thatcher.
You’re absolutely right. 0bama has proven himself to be a weapons grade narcissist many times over.
You do realize that Hitler was the liberal at the time, right?
Trump is not the guy I would have chosen but he’ll be the one I go with if he gets the nomination. He sure as hell cant screw things up any more than the jack ass in there now.
AND before you start giving me BS statistics to prove how wrong I am,,, I am only going by what life has been around my house since this admin has had control. Its been shifty when, and was not under Bush. Hell, it wasn’t this bad under Clintoon and I can remember having to yell bang bang at NTC because we couldn’t get blanks due to defense cuts.
Supposed to read “been shity”
Trump may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but like all other successful people, he puts the right people into the right job. I also believe he backed down on some of his military rhetoric. This guy didn’t get to where he is by doing stupid things. It is past time for the United States of America to stop acting like an ass kissing limp dick. We don’t need a spiritual leader (ala Ted Cruz) like Iran has, we need strong, decisive leadership. I can’t wait to have Mrs. Trump as the first pussy, ummm, better make that first lady to not offend some of the left leaning that troll this page.
Nonsense bullshit. He takes advantage of rigged mechanisms that limit his risk and liability leaving small business owners, contractors, and investors holding the bag.
And he is not even very good at it. He would have made more money just investing in an index fund with his inheritance.
So even with access to a legal team allowing him to stack the deck in every deal HE STILL DOES POORLY.
Selling steaks at Sharper Image? Starting a mortgage company in 2006? Starting a shitty “university”? A Trump branded overpriced vodka? People either but shitty cheap vodka or are deadly loyal to their high end brand. Trump had no space in the market to exploit and any analyst could have told him that. A travel website? Did he really think there was space in the market for gotrump.com (aka GotRump.com)?
Starting a magazine in 2007? Seriously, who the hell thinks there is a future for print magazines? A board game in 2004? Who thought there was much of a future or even much space in the market for a board game?
Trump Taj MaHal, Trump Plaza, Trump Marina, Trump Casinos in Atlantic city? All went bankrupt 3 times until Trump abandoned all but the name on the buildings.
All terrible and idiotic business ventures.
Trump *may* surround himself with smart people (though there seems to be little evidence he does), but even if he does he clearly does not listen to them.
Do you think his legal team thought it was a good idea to get on TV this week and personally threaten victims of his failed university BY NAME?
If they did they are idiots. But it is likely he just does not listen to any of the smart people in the room.
So, Club Manager, “no” he does not seem to put the right people in the right job, nor does he listen to the “right” people at the right time.
He is an incompetent moron and you would actually have to be dumber than he is to not see it.
So says the Bernie-head from Berserkely. Have you EVER had a real job in the private sector?
Not really. I served my country or my community my entire adult life.
Except in high school and junior high I had these jobs in order.
Paper route. Two.
Worked at a machine shop.
Worked at McDonald’s (rose to crew chief).
Lost my work permit (I was a runaway living on my own and my grades were terrible) so lost my McDonald’s “career”.
Without a work permit I worked as an illegal employee at a restaurant owned by organized crime. I was a dishwasher and busboy. Paid $2.35 an hour when minimum wage was $3.35. Worked alongside other “illegals”; immigrants. Who were actually paid slightly more (probably because employing an illegal immigrant was less risk than violating child labor laws).
The last few months before graduation and before I shipped to basic I worked as a bagger at a grocery store.
But since graduating I have only worked for my country.
So, in reality, Poodle, you haven’t had a real job since high school that was NOT paid for by taxpayers’ money.
That’s what I thought, sponge.
To be clear, are you saying that Lars’ time in the miltary contribute to his being a sponge?
I worked for the state highway department, then 22 years in the Army, then 5 years a a GS. Other than that I worked at Wal Mart and at a county park. Am I a sponge?
Ex-PH2 is right Lars, you’ve never had a real job! I did three years of AD Army after which I made it as a HAZMAT Contractor, OTR Trucker, and in manufacturing as well as in doing Steel Fabrication. I also went back in after a NINE YEAR break in service and did two tours in the ME, and even though I’m blue collar I make more than many who have college degrees. Just how many of your freeze-dried hippie professors have ever made a living anywhere other than teaching college, have any of them ever made it in the real world? I think not, and if you really believe the harebrained shit they’re teaching you, you’ll never make it anywhere except as a Government Bureaucrat.
You don’t know me, Commissar.
Yet Bernie Sanders never earned a paycheck until he was 40 years old and that was when he became mayor of Burlington Vermont. In fact, just like his idol Karl Marx (who never did a damn thing other than sponge off of others while railing against the system that allowed those others to pay for him to live), Bernie hasn’t done anything his entire life.
I’m sure that Trump is not suggesting that the military should obey illegal orders. His OJT will start right after the election.
Go Trump!
I mentioned this to my man when Obama was elected.
Shouldn’t any CinC who hasn’t served be required to go through some sort of basic training? I think it would help them to understand that these are people with lives who are dedicated to this country.
Interesting that you say that. In December of 1992, shortly after Clinton was elected to office but before he was sworn in, my unit was on a training exercise at Camp Mackall, just West of Bragg.
While we were there a bunch of civilians passed through (we saw them in the mess hall but never interacted with them) and we were told they were staffers who were part of the new administration who were being given a kind of “orientation boot camp” about the military, since most of them had zero military knowledge or experience.
I would imagine such things are typically organized when a new administration is elected but of course it’s not the top people who go through it, it’s the lower staffers.
And all the while they’re thinking “Why am I here? I’m obviously smarter than these clingers. What could I possibly have in common with them and why on earth do we need them? I’ll just tick this box and then get back to my real job saving the country and then we can quit wasting money on this nonsense.”
Those are the type of people Kipling was talking about:
“It’s Tommy this, and Tommy that, And chuck him out the brute,
But it’s ‘Savior of his Country,’ When the guns begin to shoot!”
****LIKE****
An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool – you bet that Tommy sees!
He is promising people exactly what they want to hear. He is a chameleon, as well as a pompous ass, a narcissist, and has a shitload of people absolutely hoodwinked into believing his hype.
This election is going to absolutely suck if the only choice I have is between him, and either of the other democrats running… He is not a republican or a conservative.
I think the problem is, this election might come down to him vs hillary. There are many similarities between the two. Though he does say what he’s thinking and she says what ever works to get her votes.
He has even changed his position on an issue during the campaign. Previously, that would end a candidate’s campaign.
Have to agree pretty much with that. In my view, Trump is only out for Trump, and the first time he hits serious resistance he will either fold or compromise in any way which benefits Trump. He makes purty noises… but playing V12 noises won’t make a Yugo into a Ferrari. Too, I am not real impressed by any other candidate, either, so this is probably going to be one of those hold-your-nose things for me. Far from the first and I doubt it will be my last.
We have a freakin’ SOB as president whose chief qualifications for president were that he was Black and a smooth talker. In Wide Load, we have a lying weasel POS who may soon be indicted seeking to replace him, followed by a socialist/commie/marxist SOB who is competing with her for that position. And we’re fighting over the personality and word choice of their chief opponent? Not me. I want no part of this ride.
The people who could be real leaders won’t run because they’d be destroyed by the professional politicians using every marketing and psychology trick their brigade of advisors tell them to use.
We are left with flashy speakers and orators who will destroy true leaders with deflection and redirection.
Anybody but Shrillary 2016…we can iron it all out after that.
I love the Freedom Caucus mentality here; “I will burn this mother to the ground before I let you get anything out of me.”
There’s not a whole of choice in the matter Doc. If Hil gets the nomination, the only possible way to beat her is to rally en masse for the GOP candidate …splitting the vote any other way is just proxy voting for the Hildabeast.
You could pause, lick your wounds, and get your ducks in a row and run a real candidate that actually reflects the parties values in four years.
Sometimes you punt the ball when giving it up on your own 5 yard line is the only other choice. But it seems like this year the Republicans want to just go for it on 4th and long, which will likely end up as a fumble out the back of the end zone.
Or maybe Drumpf is the face of the New Republican party, the “inclusive” party. All I know is I am glad he doesn’t speak for me.
umm…ok….nice fantasy DrKnow….I’m going back to the reality that we live in now.
It’s called pragmatism. Looking towards Trump as a saviour to the GOP is what is a fantasy. The guy is the definition of a RINO.
Hmm….I don’t believe I used any such verbiage.
Pragmatic, conscientious, altruistic….pretty words that have no meaning in today’s politics.
Go home, IDC SARC. You’re drunk.
LOL…I am home actually. Dunno what that has to do with the evolution of presidential elections over the past 30 years that have brought us to the present reality, but carry on.
I missed that part, the part where someone here heralded Trump as the savior of the Republican party. And here I thought that voting for Trump if he is the nominee was the pragmatic approach for many of us, holding our noses and all that.
I guess I see it differently. I am holding out hope for a brokered convention where the GOP can actually choose a candidate who is a member of the GOP. If they can’t, I’ll vote my conscience on election day, likely someone running on a third party ticket. I cannot lower myself to even consider Drumpf. If the party nominates him, they are aborting the election.
If that doesn’t happen doc, thn that’s a proxy vote for Hillary, but that’s your choice.
Dems btw love GOP voters that vote their conscience rather than for the nominee candidate.
IDC SARC is corect. Mathematically, in a two-party system with no viable 3rd party candidate, both staying at home and casting a protest vote is the equivalent of voting for the candidate you like least. Both actions reduce the number of votes the candidate you like least needs to win.
It’s the political equivalent of a two-year-old child stamping their’s feet, holding their breath until their face turns blue, and throwing a temper tantrum because they didn’t get your way.
Their are no perfect candidates. Every election is a choice between lesser evils.
Responsible adults realize this. Irresponsible children do not.
Hondo,
I understand fully well what voting for a third party really means, but at least I won’t have to debase myself by voting for that person, who almost everyone here will agree, has more or less been lying through his ass this entire primary process. He just blows so much hot air out his mouth that there is no way to actually get a read on what might actually happen if he were elected.
“I’ll be so good at the military it will make your head spin.” Ok. Sure.
“..but at least I won’t have to debase myself by voting for that person.”
Hillary loves the way you think.
At least I can sleep at night.
My question is, who is going to be the next looney in line after Trump, who in four years will be calling him a loser for losing a winnable election?
Or maybe, just maybe, we compromise a bit, throw off the fringe of the party, pick a candidate that brings in the middle and try and steer the GOP into a direction that actually brings in new voters rather than one that wants to rely on a base that is aging and dwindling in relevancy every year?
“At least I can sleep at night”
Maybe the electoral process as it stands is not really all about you.(or me)
Rationalization is however, not a healthy coping mechanism.
Picking the “lesser of two evils” is no way to vote. That is how you get someone like Hitler elected.
“We’ll I don’t agree with anything he’s saying, but at least I’m voting the party line”. Now that is idiotic.
reductio ad Hitlerum…and a false dichotomy
No, it is very apt for this situation. You could easily elect a fascist under these exact circumstances. By unwilling to consider a third party candidate, and forcing yourself to vote for someone you know you don’t agree with, you’re letting other people choose for you. Right now, it looks like the fringe right wants to have a loon like Trump as their nominee. Are you going to just lay down and take that? I won’t.
At least I can sleep at night.
Immature and blissfully ignorant children always do.
But that’s the thing – If Cruz or Trump wins the nomination there won’t be enough GOP voters to “rally en masse” to actually defeat Clintin. At this point it’s pretty much a forgone conclusion that the dems will win again (with a Cruz or Trump ticket). Hence why the GOP is trying desperately to get an establishment candidate the nomination. It’s clear that the people don’t want establishment. The question the GOP voters need to ask themselves is: is nominating a candidate that cannot win a general election the right candidate to choose?
That’s the one thing the Dems do, they’ll rally around a candidate. When Bernie cedes the nomination to Hilary, he’ll ask his supporters to back her, which they will. If Kasich were the candidate? The tea party right would not support him. They are stuck in a position where to win the nomination the candidate has to be tea party right, but then that same candidate can’t win a general. The GOP voters need to make compromises in order to nominate a candidate actually capable of winning. You don’t get to have and eat your cake.
Nominating Trump or Cruz is effectively handing the election to the Dems. For example, Kasich is moderate enough to grab enough new votes to win a general election vs H-dawg. But he’s too left, so you choose someone who mathematically isn’t likely to win. I guess the silver lining is that you can feel good about the fact that you voted against the Liberals.
Well, the establishment Republican candidates are disappearing like so many snowflakes falling on water. Miss South Carolina, Lindsay Graham is history. The Lard Ass from Joisey is gone and, at last report, was comforting himself with a case of Twinkies. Shrek’s sweetheart, Princess Fiorina is history. And Mr. Establishment himself, Jeb Bush, can’t sleep knowing he will never be president. Santorum not only got his butt kicked but he went back for seconds by endorsing (drum roll, please) M. Rubio for president, whose turncoat Gang of Eight participation sealed his fate and we are now awaiting his withdrawl. I probably omitted at least three more Establishment candidates. Carson was cooked but hardly anyone’s idea of an inside guy.
I certainly disagree that the nomination of Trump or Cruz will assure a victory for Wide Load or Old Commie. Cruz is truly a conservative and is, unlike Trump, presidential and statesmanlike. I only wish the LOSERS such as Romney, McCain, and Miss South Carolina would shut the hell up and stop telling us whom we should or should not support. The more the establishment bad moths Trump, the more attractive he becomes.
Absolutely.
Another of the Bush clan is now Trump’s finance manager or something like that in Texas.
Ouch.
My bad – he jumped on Cruz’s wagon. I mis-heard on the radio this AM.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/bush-family-member-endorses-cruz-220433
If by “Cruz is truly a conservative” you mean he is by far and away the most conservative out of the field, then you are very correct. Does that mean he is the most ideal Candide to win a general election?
You can disagree all you want about the notion that Trump and Cruz can’t win a general. That’s fine. It’s totally unfounded and not based on statistics, polling, ANYTHING. Just your gut feeling. The facts are, based on many, many polls, that a very far right leaning candidate will not pick up enough new votes to tilt the election in the GOP favor. The left will mobilize and get the “youth” and “non-white” demographs out voting in force. Those numbers will overwhelm whatever Trump/Cruz has dredged up. Now what we need to hope for is a low voter turn out for the dems, then Trump/Cruz could win. The problem is that with a controversial far right candidate like Cruz/Trump, the left won’t have to work hard to get people to the polling stations. We need more voter ID laws, obviously.
It’s also bizarre that you have so few kind words for any of the other GOP/Conservative candidates. These people are party leadership, yet they are all despised and not real republicans? “Trump the outsider” is going to splinter the Republican party and that’s a bell you can’t unring. Be ready for the consequences.
Thanks DollarSign. You really told me and I am all torn up about it. I see that you trust polling. I don’t. Does that make me a bad person?
So how did that work in the 2012 election? Remember when all the polls showed Obama as the clear favorite but the entirety of the GOP media machine just kept saying, “well those polls aren’t accurate.”
See CLOCK,MECHANICAL, BROKEN: 12 hour (once)and 24 hour (twice.) Cripes. I actually thought you had a tad more on the ball.
Classic I don’t like it so I won’t believe it mentality.
What got you fired up this AM, Lars? I haven’t seen you posting here that often in a few weeks, and now your back to your usual MO of name calling those that don’t agree with you. We get it, you don’t like anyone that isn’t of the same political cloth as you.
It get old, Taylor… real fucking old.
We know how much you hate conservatives and think the liberal/socialist way is the way to go… we get it.
You’re afraid that Trump is going to be a Mussolini – we get it. I’m going to throw this out there – what about Obama and his rule by Executive Order? Don’t you think it’s borderline/over the line dictatorial?
Unlike you, I have worked in the private sector, and see almost daily how the Libs want to tax the middle class to death to support the SJW/FSA types who want everything at someone else expense. I wasn’t raised that way; I had to work my way up in the Navy and outside of it. I’ve failed a few times, but I’ve picked myself up and did what I’ve had to. I don’t like the way this country is going and I’d like to see a change.
Am I happy with any of the candidates – NO! But, I’d sure as Hell would vote for a (R) over Clinton or Sanders, both who have pandered to the same SJW/FSA types during the campaign.
If you have a problem with my opinion, that’s your problem!
I am not name calling.
I am stating a FACT. If you support Trump you are either an authoritarian personality that WANTS a narcissistic sociopath fascist as a president or you are an idiot.
It is not like his politics is new. It has been a tactic used by emerging tyrants for millennia.
You would have to be a complete moron not to see right through his rhetoric. And worse, you would have to AGREE with it to support Trump. Agreeing with him overall is by itself enough evidence that someone is a moron.
This has nothing to do with party politics. Trump isn’t even a republican. He is exploiting the bigotry and sense of impotence of an aging republican base, but he is not a republican. It is all salesmanship to him. He would say whatever it took to get elected.
Trump is a dangerous sociopath. And he absolutely without question is a narcissistic sociopath. As textbook as ever walked the face of the earth. We know that shitbags like him do when they get power and it is bad for the nation and the American people.
You want a narcissist? Look at your idol B. Hussein 0bama. Want a fascist? Look at the socialist you drool over, that Senator from Vermont. Mussolini never made it on his own, he tried to be a Stone Mason and never could find steady work and soon was involved in the Italian Socialist Movement just like your white-haired socialist stick figure of a candidate never made a steady paycheck until he got elected to office while Trump has made it with flying colors in the private sector where you’ve never made it. You ought to sue for a tuition refund because all you’ve gotten from that school is a head full of shit, your bragging about your IQ doesn’t mean shit to me because I’ve known people with high IQs that couldn’t even pour piss out of a boot even with written instructions!
You lose yet again, poodle dick.
I am starting to see the light now. If Trump is elected he will automatically have the absolute power of a fascist dictator. The Congress will surrender all of its power and any decisions not prior-approved by Trump, will be ignored. Tanks, outwardly facing, will surround the White House and the circle of protection will expand, pushing the residents into the Potomac or border Maryland counties. The airports will be closed and overflights will be round the clock. Trump will unilaterally launch tactical nukes at our border with Mexico and the fallout will keep the area clear of aliens for years. These are FACTS ladies and gentlemen! It will happen IF Trump is elected emperor! I kid you not. Now, I want to know. Where is that quart of strawberries? I kid you not. I will have those strawberries!
No, fool. When the election is between two untrustworthy candidates – one of which is a somewhat rightward-leaning but untrustworthy blowhard who might or might not ruin the country, and the other is either a a clueless Communist/Socialist or an incompetent but incorrigible liar with even bigger delusions of grandeur – the individual with 3 or more working brain cells chooses the lesser of two evils. That’s all.
The election of Hillary Clinton will amount to little more than Barack Obama’s third term, and be based mostly on her gender, not qualities of leadership. If you’re okay with the administration’s record of the past seven years, Hillary will appeal.
It might be pointed out that when Obama was elected in 2008, it was largely because Wall Street had taken the economy to the brink of financial ruin. A lot of normal people took a big hit. Since then, any recovery, despite administration claims to the contrary, has benefited a very small slice of the population in the top tier. The numbers don’t lie.
My own view about the topic at hand is that Trump, despite his shoot-from-the-hip approach, gets it right about making our enemies fear us. What is Hillary’s approach? Make the bad people stop, but don’t be mean doing it.
Hillary also plays well to a global audience, which is something the largely New York City-based mainstream media is fighting for. It’s supposed to be important, for example, that the President of Mexico is opposed to Trump, and never mind if Mexico itself is a borderline failed state largely controlled by drug cartels. Ditto for the British press seeking influence over a political process they lost in 1776.
It’s not uncommon for American politics to be a matter of picking the lesser evil, and elections almost never choose a perfect candidate with strict loyalty to the wishes of voters.
If you want perfection, go to Hooters. If you want loyalty, get a dog.
I abhor the idea of voting straight ticket, but sometimes it’s the only option.
“The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments”
Erudite, yet anachronistic.
It’s also very optimistic to think the GOP won’t take a bath down the ticket with Trump on the ballot. Plenty traditional Republicans and many independents won’t stand behind him, and it will effect smaller statewide races. I hope we are all prepared to see the Dems take over the Senate again.
I have come across very few people whose arguments are as faulty as yours, Dr K.
You make statements based on false assumptions.
It has obviously not occurred to you that people who might not otherwise vote at all are so fed up with the left side of the fence may just go and vote, after all, for the sole purpose of cleaning house.
No, these aren’t assumptions, they are what the polls are currently showing. And what will likely happen unless the GOP can get their collective heads out of their collective asses.
The numbers just don’t add up. There are not people that “might otherwise not vote” that Trump is bringing out to vote that can compete with the growing population on minority voters and other groups that traditionally vote for democrats. You can’t get water from a stone, and unless the GOP is going to start attracting some of the votes from the middle (which they won’t with a blowhard like Trump) then they will take a splash on the national election as well as down ticket (especially in a presidential election year).
I don’t believe any of the two current leaders on the GOP side are capable of taking a single middle/moderate voter into the fold.
The GOP has been bleeding out for sometime, the problem is they only believe it’s a flesh wound.
Trump’s initial excitement is due to the overwhelming distaste for Washington and the leaders of both parties. Whether that translates to enough new voters to gain every republican vote left when the convention nominates the Donal remains to be seen, my bet is that there is no way in hell that happens. Which brings us to the other clown claiming he can beat HRC…he also won’t even get all the Republican voters if Trump is out and I would bet all the new voters who signed up to vote Trump don’t even bother to show up in November if he’s not on the ballot…
Unless something very interesting happens very soon the Republicans seem determined to give away the White House and possibly the Senate in November and possibly destroy much of the party along the way.
It’s been a wild ride so far, I suspect that’s not changing anytime soon.
The GOP versus Dem turnout in the states which have had primaries thus far give lie to your statement.
Voter turnout in primaries doesn’t equate to that in a general election. The GOP is seeing record turn outs in part due the the unprecedented number of candidates running this year. With more candidates running, there are more people in the field shaking the bushes and getting their message out, in turn getting people excited about THEIR candidate.
With only two choices for the dems, it’s not unsurprising they are not seeing the same turn outs the did in their record 2008 year.
Vote for Hillary or burn it down?
Where are the matches.
Bernath should run for office!
Maybe, what he meant was, if he says he wants ISIS taken out, he is not talking about illegal orders, he is talking about no ROE that will get in the way, or fire support where civilians who tolerate the enemy hanging out in their homes get in the way. At least I can hope, right?
Removing the RoE is essentially an open license for war crimes. The RoE was more stringent than necessary most of the time but much of it was to prevent war crimes.
It has two primary purposes:
1. Give clear guidance that will prevent soldiers from committing war crimes.
2. Shape the way we fight so it is in accordance with our overall strategy in influencing the long term outcome. Including the legal fiction justifying our existence on the ground as guests of the standing government (that we helped establish) instead of as an occupying army.
I think they RoE was too stringent in many cases but given the dumb shit soldiers had done when it wasn’t I understood how it came to be as strict as it did. I did not agree with it but the alternative might have been worse.
Keep in mind that the other way they could keep soldiers from doing the stupid shit some were doing was to charge more soldiers with war crimes. That would get soldiers to behave more in accordance with international law without the need for a stringent RoE.
However, that would have been terrible for our image internationally, it would have undermined both domestic and public support for our continued efforts, and it would have served as propaganda for our enemies.
Instead, there was a clear RoE that was made extremely stringent to reduce the cases of poor judgement that had been damn near systemic in the first years of the war.
It’s not a war crime to destroy a block of buildings to kill the enemy even if civilians are in that block of buildings.
It’s not a war crime to shoot a wounded enemy dead who might be inclined to commit suicide and take out his would be captors.
It’s not a war crime to burn the enemy out of his holes with napalm or other fire inducing munitions.
Killing the enemy and removing their ability to further conduct hostile operations by destroying their entire infrastructure and food sources is not a war crime. It’s the recipe for ending the war.
The failure of the previous administration was attempting to declare a war on an NGO and then fighting that NGO in a nation you’re not technically at war with. That singularly stupid act of fucking idiocy creates ROEs that get people killed for no useful mission outcome.
Bush/Cheney were two of the biggest fucking morons to start or prosecute a war since Westmoreland. If your enemy is in a foreign land and that foreign land doesn’t do anything to remove your enemy you declare war on the foreign land.
The GWOT is as meaningless a term as the War on Drugs or Poverty, wars without end and virtually no success. The same as the GWOT which is currently a war without end and a war that won’t be concluded successfully for our national interests using any of the current methods of prosecuting those wars.
It wasn’t the poor judgment of soldiers that was the problem, it was the poor judgment of those who would rush to war without any understanding of what the mission was, how the mission would be conducted and how long that mission would last. Nor was there any consideration for the post mission phase of the conflict.
That’s on Bush/Cheney and every asshole who voted to support that operation.
I fail to understand the reasoning behind have a series of useless debates at the start of the campaign season. If this was to weed our and/or drive people to the lefthand side of the fence, when they may otherwise be mugwumps, it’s only done a couple of things, such as weed out the people who have no wish to compete with a loud-mouthed attention whore like Trump.
It’s actually rather clever of him to not discuss real issues. I’d speculate that he’s saving that for the bitter end of this nonsensical campaign season. If he doesn’t come up with something new, however, he’s just another blowhard in a long line of blowhards, but if he’s the candidate, I’d vote for him before I’d ever put a mark on the democrap side of the ballot.
I am tiring of the will/will not exchange. We will not hash this out here. It will simply deteriorate into humorless foolishness. The conspiracy theorists (former Ryan supporters, I suppose) are here and the fit-only-for-DU comments are increasing. Out.