This Just Doesn’t Seem Right
During the early part of World War II, the US Army Air Forces had a pilot shortage. A relatively small group of women helped mitigate that shortage through various programs. The first two such programs were the Women’s Flying Training Detachment (WFTD) and the Women’s Auxiliary Ferrying Squadron (WAFS). In 1943, these two programs and organizations were merged to form the Women Airforce Service Pilots, or WASPs.
The WASP program, like the US Merchant Marine, at the time was technically a form of civilian wartime service – a paramilitary organization vice uniformed military service. Congress did consider making the WASPs a formal part of the Army Air Forces, but ultimately declined to do so. Later in the war, sufficient USAF male pilots had been trained to eliminate the pilot shortfall. The WASP program was then terminated and its members were released.
Both WASPs and US Merchant Marine personnel serving during World War II were later granted military veteran status by Congress with the passage of the GI Bill Improvement Act of 1977 – though it took a Federal court decision in 1988 before US Merchant Mariners were recognized as veterans under that act. And since 2002 each group has been deemed eligible for inurnment (the placement of cremated remains in a cemetery storage area, often above ground) in Arlington National Cemetery as a military veteran.
Until last year, that is.
Sometime last year the Secretary of the Army, John McHugh, determined that WASPs and World War II Merchant Mariners were no longer eligible for inurnment at Arlington National Cemetery. Curiously enough, both groups apparently remain eligible for both inurnment and in-ground burial at National Cemeteries run by the VA. (The Army operates Arlington National Cemetery and the US Soldiers’ & Airmen’s Home National Cemetery in DC; the VA operates all other US National Cemeteries.)
You know, this seems just plain wrong to me. One can legitimately debate whether or not Congress should have granted members of the WASPs or World War II US Merchant Mariners veteran status. However, the fact remains that Federal law did exactly that in 1977. Both groups performed hazardous duty in support of the national war effort under the direction and control of military officials. Both groups suffered a substantial rate (3.5+%) of fatalities. And for the last 38+ years, members of both groups have been, by law, World War II veterans.
Under Title 32 Code of Federal Regulations Part 553, section 15a, any former member of the Armed Forces who served on active duty (other than for training) and whose last service terminated honorably is eligible for inurnment at Arlington.. It seems to me that people declared by Congress to be military veterans due to service as WASPs or Merchant Mariners during World War II who served honorably deserve the same. If all other vets whose service ended honorably are eligible for inurnment in Arlington, I can’t see any good reason why members of these two groups should be excluded.
But maybe that’s just me.
Category: "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", Arlington National Cemetary, Big Army, Veterans Issues
Yeah, seems fukkered up to me as well.
It’s not just you.
How do the injured parties compel the Army to change from outlaw behavior to law abiding behavior? I’m thinking that a restraining order issued by a court worded something like, “stop being stupid and conform to the law or we will find you in contempt” is not going to have much effect.
The answer to that question has application outside the limited scope of your article about the WASP and Merchant Marine communities.
It seems to me that if both groups were granted veteran status based on their WWII service, the Secy/Army is a bit off base there. Without those women pilots ferrying planes to military bases in any and all weather, the planes wouldn’t have been available so quickly. The Merchant Marine was in just as much danger from being hit by U-boats as any military ship.
I guess maybe McHugh just doesn’t like certain things. I wonder how he felt about donut dollies. What a selfish little dink he is.
Nailed it ^^
My Grandpa spent the war on a Liberty Ship (more than one in fact, one was sunk out from under him) as an antiaircraft gunner in a Navy Armed Guard detachment.
Though he was convinced that half of the Merchant Marine guys he sailed with had felony warrants waiting for them somewhere, he never questioned their courage or their dedication. He saw lots of ships crewed by the Merchant Marine go down to kraut torpedoes and jap kamikazes, and many of those guys didn’t make it. The Merchant Marine weren’t part of they military, but they performed a vital job in combat zones all over the world, and lost a lot of men to enemy action.
I caught this yesterday and I’m a little perplexed. I thought they were eligible for National Cemetery’s.
Since Arlington is filling up I don’t see a problem with them being interned in one of their states National Cemetery’s. I don’t see the fixation on Arlington myself. There are plenty of hero’s in the states to rest besides.
It’s not internment, it’s inurnment. Yes, the cemetery is filling up, but they’re building above-ground columbariums where you can have your ashes inurned:
For the same footprint, you can probably inurn 30-40 cremated remains as you can inter a body. So there’s plenty of space for this.
thanks for the correction on the distinction between the two. I re-read the story and I got the two mixed up. The original story I read elsewhere did not make that distinction. I think they said “laid to rest” or something like that. I guess my post is the same, though. What is wrong with the State National Commentaries which they are still eligible for?
…My understanding – and I will cheerfully admit to error – is that Arlington is the only one of the National Cemeteries that is actually run by the US Army. All of the others are run by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. So it’s at least technically/legally possible that the Army can make its own decisions as to who can/can’t get into Arlington, completely independent of DVA – not of course, that it’s right. On the other hand, Arlington is supposedly running out of room (though I’ve been hearing that for a couple decades now) so it’s at least possible that this was a rock/hard place decision made by a bureaucrat who THOUGHT he was doing the right thing.
Mike
Almost. The Army also runs the US Soldiers’ and Airman’s Home Cemetery in DC. The VA runs all the other US National Cemeteries.
Rules for Arlington are indeed somewhat different from the rules for VA-run National Cemeteries. Can’t speak about the Soldiers’ and Airmen’s Home cemetery, but I’d guess the rules for that one are somewhat different also.
If the likes of Murtha and Teddy Kennedy can be put to rest in Arlington,then By God these good men and women ought to be as well.
McHugh is being a dick with ears.
Great point!
They take Kennedy’s ass out and put someone more deserving in. There is a bridge in Chappaquidick he can be buried under.
great idea!
Here’s the reason TEDDY Kennedy is buried there. He did serve in Europe.
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2009/08/why-is-sen-ted-kennedy-qualified-for-burial-at-arlington-national-cemetery.html
I’ll give him credit for serving two years but I take it all away for his service in Congress.
He should have been serving time in the slammer for the death of Mary Joe Kopechne.
Bingo. Had his last name been anything other than “Kennedy” – or the state where the incident occurred been any state other than Massachusetts – I suspect that’s exactly what would have happened.
Actually, an honorable discharge does NOT automatically qualify one for in-ground burial at Arlington.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Funerals/Scheduling-a-Funeral/Establishing-Eligibility/Ground-Burial
Ted Kennedy qualifies under the “elected office of the United States Government” part of the eligibility criteria. His 2 years of active duty in and of itself would not qualify him for burial at Arlington.
When I have passed, I’ll never know or care where I was buried. Arlington to me is a special place for special heroes. My dead body parked so far away would be an inconvenience for my remaining relatives to travel for Veteran’s Day Ceremonies. My job will have been complete once leaving this earth. Some 20 or 30 years down the road few will remember, and once they are gone, I will be a bump in the ground. Respect for those who think different and desire or demand they be buried at a specific place is nothing I’d ever want to block their chosen path. Once gone, hopefully each will be remembered for a decade or two. Beyond that “He was a good person, as I was told by my elders.” What more could I ask for?
For me, inurnment at Arlington means that generations from now, far down the line, folks in the family visiting DC will make a point to stop by and say hello, hopefully take a little pride in seeing my spot there. That won’t happen if I’m buried hundreds of miles away from the rest of the family where I live now, with no kids for either me or the wife. So for me, Arlington means a couple visits every decade instead of none.
My dad and I were visiting civil war battlefields a few years back, and while at Chickamauga, we stopped to by see a cousin of my great-great-great grandfather, who died at Resaca and is buried there. Probably the first time his grave was visited in a generation, maybe more. I’d like to make it easier for my relations to feel that same connection and pride, at such a special place.
You say this like you are surprised.
When have you ever known John McHugh to make a good decision?
Kennedy is buried in Arlington? I read something, somewhere that Arlington was for MILITARY and PRESIDENTS ONLY. Did I misread the story? Then who else is allowed to rest in Arlington?
He was in the Navy during World War II, skippered a PT boat (PT-109 – look it up), which was run down by the Japanese destroyer Amagiri in 1943.
I’m referring to Jack Kennedy, not Ted.
Here’s a good reference:
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/eligib.htm
The reason Ted Kennedy qualifies is because he had active federal military service that terminated honorably, and he held an elective office of the United States Government, and ever since 1967, that qualifies a person for in-ground burial at Arlington. Per wikipedia, here’s a summary of his service:
“Kennedy enlisted in the United States Army in June 1951, signing up for an optional four-year term, which was shortened to the minimum two years after his father intervened. Following basic training at Fort Dix in New Jersey, he requested assignment to Fort Holabird in Maryland for Army Intelligence training, but was dropped after a few weeks without explanation. He went to Camp Gordon in Georgia for training in the Military Police Corps. In June 1952, Kennedy was assigned to the honor guard at SHAPE headquarters in Paris, France. His father’s political connections ensured that he was not deployed to the ongoing Korean War. While stationed in Europe, he traveled extensively on weekends and climbed the Matterhorn in Switzerland. He was discharged after 21 months in March 1953 as a private first class.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy
So like it or not, he’s qualified – they didn’t bend the rules for him.
Did I misread the story? Then who else is allowed to rest in Arlington?
Somewhat. At one point Arlington was for those who had served in the military or had contributed greatly to the country. (For example, various authors, poets, etc are laid to rest at Arlington. Even L’enfant, the man who designed the city of Washington is in Arlington.) Also included in Arlington at the bodies of the astronauts of the Challenger disaster which has several people who never claim close to serving in the military.
As for Kennedy, he was eligible because of his service in the Senate as well as serving in the military.
From the Arlington site:
Edward M. Kennedy served in the United State Army from 1951-1953. Senator Kennedy had represented the State of Massachusetts in the US Senate for 43 years. He is interred near the gravesites of his brothers Robert F. Kennedy and President John F. Kennedy. (Section 45)
You can see more interesting and prominent people buried at Arlington at this site: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Explore/Notable-Graves
Frankly, I would rather be near my great-grandfather. We can swap stories.
My problem with this whole story is that it shows that you cannot trust the word of the government.
We have seen it in the reduction of promised military benefits. We see it in this case. My social security card says it cannot be used for anything other than for the Social Security system itself and any one else demanding it is against the law. That didn’t last either.
I don’t think the people who make these decisions understand tht there is a trust issue involved. Because of that, the number of people who trust the government is dwindling.
Not to be a bugger bear but there is a huge difference between the WASP and The Merchant Marines in that the WASPS never left CONUS or came under fire.
WASP were mainly used to ferry aircraft from production areas to bases and departure fields. On occassion they would fly some cargo or tow targets for gunnery.
1074 were accepted and flew over 60 million miles total.38 died in accidents
The Merchant Marine lost over 9500 men KIA about 4.0% of those who served. Higher casualty rate than any service branch.
JAOD: 38/1074 = 3.54%. That death rate is damn close to that of the Merchant Marine, and is higher than any US uniformed military service during World War II except the USMC – and it’s damn close to that of the USMC (669,100 served, 24,511 died/mising, 3.66%).
Further, quite a number of Soldiers/Sailors/Marines drew CONUS duty during World War II and – like the WASPs – never saw enemy action. That includes most if not all WACs and WAVEs. Do you regard them as being less “veteran” than Merchant Mariners?
Like it or not, Congress declared the WASPs – and not the Merchant Marine – World War II veterans in 1977. The Merchant Marine were not specifically named in the law declaring WASPs World War II veterans; they had to go to court to be declared World War II veterans eleven years later. Federal court action ruled them veterans because the court held that the SECAF had “abused his discretion” in not declaring their service to have been equivalent to that of the WASPs – which is what the law prescribed as the standard for “equivalent service”.
The SECARMY IMO has his head firmly inserted on this issue. I suspect his successor will reverse this decision – after Congress grills the hell out of him during his confirmation hearings regarding the matter.
‘That includes most if not all WACs and WAVEs. Do you regard them as being less “veteran” than Merchant Mariners?’
I’d like to know what you think about this, too, Old Dog, because the number of WAVES, WAFs, WACs and WMs who were stationed in-country during the Vietnam War is extremely small compared to the number of us who were stationed stateside from 1964 to 1975. I don’t claim any service I didn’t have, but I do not consider myself any less a vet for not being sent to a Combat Camera group or a combat zone.
IMHO Both the Wasps and Merchant Marines were the WW2 Version of Military Contractors we have today. My point in pointing out the rates of Merchant Marine Deaths is that they were Combat Deaths from enemy action. All the WASP deaths were in training accidents or ferrying aircraft.
Congress made the chioce to give them Certain Veterans Benefit’s Years ago.
Flying itself is a dangerous undertaking. The WASPS had 25,000 applicants, and only were looking for experienced pilots.
If you want to compare fatality rates of Aviators look at the difference between the WASPS and 8th AirForce.
The 8th Air Force had over 26,000 killed in Action.
“Certain Veterans benefits”? Hardly. Try ALL benefits provided by the VA – just like any other vet of that era.
Here’s the text of the law that declared the WASPs military veterans – see Section 401, which starts on page 17 of the document.
http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/95/202.pdf
The phrase “shall be considered active duty for the purposes of all laws administered by the Veterans Administration” makes that fairly clear – along with the intent of Congress regarding their status.
Comparison of WASPs (or WAVES, or SPARS, or the USMC Women’s Reserve, for that matter) with those male units ordered to serve in combat is invalid. Like myself, you’re old enough to remember well the combat exclusion policy regarding women that all services had prior to 1994 (and even that was a very much watered-down version of the policy in effect earlier). That policy precluded WASPs (and WACs, WAVES, SPARS, and the USMC Women’s Reserve) from serving in combat and/or in areas where the probability of capture was high. A group can’t get shot at much if law or policy forbids them from being sent into harm’s way.
I can’t speak for WAVES/SPARS/USMC Women’s Reserve, but during World War II precisely one WAC unit appears to have served in a combat zone: the 6888th Central Postal Battalion. They deployed to France after D-Day. As you might expect from the unit’s title, they served well behind the front lines – for the reasons noted above.
McHugh is very clearly ignoring Congress’ intent here. That’s generally not a smart thing for any Service Secretary to do.
Hondo, thanks for the links on statute passed by Congress and the requirements for burial.
The statute granting Veterans Status to the ladies specifically states that they were “Federal Civilian Employees” while the law concerning internment at Arlington specifically states that a person must be a member of the Armed Forces (with some limited exceptions). I think the SECARMY might have just been between a rock and a hard place here in that he doesn’t have the statutory authority to grant the request for Arlington.
However, from the statute granting veterans status, it might be within the SECDEF’s authority to grant an exemption.
Arlington National Cemetery’s eligibility requirements appear to be found in Code of Federal Regulations. I have not been able to find anything in the US Code (Federal law) that specifies the criteria for burial at Arlington National Cemetery (ANC).
You would be correct if ANC’s eligibility criteria were specified in law. Federal law ties the decision-maker’s hands, as compliance is mandatory.
However, Regulations are administrative in nature. They can be changed administratively or exceptions granted by cognizant authority.
The Army manages ANC. Since ANC burial criteria are specified in the CFR, it would seem that this decision is thus a regulatory one and is not required to comply with Federal law. IMO, that in turn means that changing it would be fully within the SECARMY’s scope of authority.
I could see lawyers disagreeing on that point.
Looks like there was an effort to clarify this issue years ago, but Congress didn’t get the bill passed to add the WASPs for eligible for burial at Arlington.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/hr4940/text
Not sure there’s much room for disagreement. I did some further checking, and Federal law seems to give the SECARMY full discretion regarding the burial of cremated remains at Arlington. See 38 USC 2410.
The eligibility provisions defined in 38 USC 2402 relating to burial in other National Cemeteries managed by the VA do not seem to apply to Arlington, as that cemetery is not under the management of the VA’s National Cemetery Administration. The text of 38 USC 2402 clearly states that it applies only to cemeteries managed by the National Cemetery Administration. Arlington is not mentioned.
Yes, but para b of that section does again mention “members of the Armed Forces” as does 38 USC 2410A.
A different set of lawyers could look at this differently, otherwise there would be no need for trials.
Looks like Congress, specifically due to the efforts of Martha McSally of AZ one of the good guys, is poised to do the right thing here.
forgot the link
https://mcsally.house.gov/sites/mcsally.house.gov/files/WASP%20Air%20Act.pdf
EX-PH2,
The Difference between the WASPS and the servicewomen you mention later is they were a part of DOD under the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines. While some WASPS were later in The AAC, The WASPS were never militarized.
The Army Air Corps was all male during World War II. Virtually all women serving in the Army during World War II were either nurses in the Army Nurse Corps or served in the Women’s Army Corps or its predecessor organization, the Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps. A handful of female Army doctors (the first was commissioned in 1943) were the only exception of which I’m aware.
WACs during World War II generally (if not exclusively) served in all-female units. I believe the same is true of ANC units as well. Those units were attached to various HQs/commands to provide support as required.
Under Federal law, women were not authorized to serve as regular members of the US armed forces during peacetime until the passage of the Women’s Armed Services Integration Act in June 1948. Prior to that, women were precluded from service in military (other than as nurses) during peacetime.
What a shame….. What next us combat vets will get turned away because we didn’t rate a silver star or something else
Actually, Skippy . . . for in-ground burials at Arlington that’s pretty much already the case. In ground burials at Arlington require the individual to die while serving or be a military retiree vice simply an honorably-discharged veteran – or to fall into one of several special categories that have been granted an exception. One of those special categories that has been granted an exception is honorably-discharged veterans who received the (a) MoH, (b) the DSC/NC/AFC, (c)the Silver Star, or (d) the Purple Heart.
Regarding the original subject above: for those interested, the official Army Air Forces history of the WASP program and an Air Force Fact Sheet summarizing the program are both available online.
http://www.afhra.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-090529-109.pdf
http://www.afhso.af.mil/topics/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=15244
I have to wonder what prompted the Army to review the legal status in the first place? I can’t think that this was something that was just done for no reason. Of course, given the craptastic policy formulation I’ve seen come out of the army staff in the last ten years I can believe it was a decision not well thought out as to repercussions.
The good news for the old Secarmy is it’s now someone else’s problem.
It’s a matter of looking like they are doing something to Address the space issue in Arlington. As of 2010 only 300 of them were alive.
They are looking at what, maybe 20-30 spaces maximum?
The number of inurnments affected by this misguided decision is much larger than 20 or 30. While only a relative handful of WASPs would likely be inurned at Arlington, the ban also reportedly affects Merchant Mariners who served in World War II. Approximately 250,000 US Merchant Mariners served during World War II and have veteran’s status as a result.
Hondo,
Is there any idea of how many WASPS and MM have been buried there or Inured?
Haven’t been able to find anything on that. In fact, a breakout of burials by period of service for those buried at Arlington appears to be rather hard to come by. With that, and the number of World War II vets still living, one could at least attempt a projection for how many of each group (WASP and MM) might request inurnment.
The main issue at Arlington is the availability of space. Until bodies are moved out, they start stacking bodies, or take over neighboring real estate, limiting eligibility is pretty much the only alternative.
Now, about women pilots in WWII. Yes, they definitely flew other than within CONUS. They ferried every type aircraft in the inventory into combat zones in the Pacific. Unarmed. Probably THE most ballsy fliers ever.
There’s still a WW2 Merchant Mariner working as an instructor at SUNY Maritime College. This article made me think of him and the experiences he shared with us about the Murmansk Run and other convoy duties. Truly an incredible group of men with some guts.
They should only be “included” if they meet the qualifications to be buried in Arlington. Serving your country isn’t the only qualification. If these ladies actually died in service, buriel rights are in order. But their service was a scant 2 years. If this was the only qualification, they better expand Arlington 100 times bigger for all the other veterans that meet this qualification. I served for 4 years and served in combat, I’m not eligible. My father served 21 years and 2 tours in Vietnam, he’s eligible when he passes away. (There are many rules governing acceptance into Arlington, look them up.) Just because they are “women” doesn’t make them automatically qualified for buriel rights. I respect and honor their service and they should have every right as a veteran, but let’s not go overboard. Two wrongs don’t make a right. This is just a bunch of people looking for a “cause” to give their life meaning. PC gone amuck! Give me a break
Harder: it would be a good idea to (1) do a bit of research, and (2) actually know what you’re talking about before opening your mouth and proving neither is the case. A few facts, which you’d have found had you bothered to do your homework: (1) These individuals were declared Veterans by Act of Congress (e.g., Federal law) in 1977. (2) These individuals are not requesting in-ground burial at Arlington; rather, they are requesting placement of cremated remains in an above-ground place there reserved for such purposes. That is what “inurnment” means. It does not equate to “in-ground burial”. (3) All veterans whose last discharge was honorable are eligible for inurnment of cremated remains in Arlington’s Columbarium or Niche Wall. The criteria for in-ground burial is more restrictive. Current criteria for each may be found in these two links: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Funerals/Scheduling-a-Funeral/Establishing-Eligibility/Ground-Burial http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Funerals/Scheduling-a-Funeral/Establishing-Eligibility/Columbarium-or-Niche-Wall (4) From 2002 to 2015, both Merchant Mariners and former WASPs with service during World War II were allowed inurnment of cremated remains in Arlington’s Columbarium or Niche Wall. (The two groups were never authorized in-ground burial at Arlington.) In 2015, the SECARMY at the time rescinded that authority on the bases of IMO bogus “legal advice” – or maybe because he was “stuck on stupid”, take your pick. Your father is eligible for in-ground burial at Arlington because (presumably) with 21 years military service he’s a retiree. You are not eligible for in-ground burial there – but assuming your last tour of active duty ended with an honorable discharge, you are indeed eligible for inurnment of your cremated remains in Arlington’s Columbarium or Niche Wall. In short, all that was happening here is that former WASPs were asking to be treated as honorably discharged veterans – which Congress declared them to be nearly 40 years ago. It was IMO sheer idiocy for the SECARMY to change policy in 2015 and cease doing so. Thankfully, Congress has partially rectified this travesty – for WASPs. I’ve done a follow-up story on that; search the site’s archives (if you can figure out how) to find it. Best I can tell,… Read more »