When seconds counted…
It was Friday evening, and I was listening to a survivor of the Bataclan Theater terrorist attack in Paris describe how it took place. The attackers wisely seized the high ground, the balconies, where they were able to fire down into the masses of people packed into the overcrowded main floor. According to this witness, the terrorists were able to continually fire their weapons randomly into their helpless victims for ten to fifteen minutes before the police assault finally took them down.
Listening to that, my first thought was this: what if the members of that audience, who were all unarmed by French law, didn’t have to simply wait passively to be random victims? What if Paris was a city that permitted concealed carry? In an audience of more than a thousand, perhaps one in twenty might have been packing. That’s more than fifty citizens who could have been returning fire on those terrorists. Sure, it would be handgun rounds against automatic rifles and possibly shotguns, but trust me, those three shooters wouldn’t have been randomly shooting helpless fish in a barrel had they had incoming rounds from that many firing points – even from half that many. When they were able to raise their heads over the balcony rails, they would have been targeting those citizen shooters instead of killing the helpless…or they might have fled in the face of return fire, as terrorists sometimes do.
The growing body count as of this writing is 120 slaughtered in the Bataclan. We’ll never know how much that body count could have been reduced if the foolish French allowed their citizens to go armed. Their imprudent gun control laws contributed to unnecessary carnage.
Once again, when seconds counted, the police were just too many minutes away.
Crossposted at American Thinker
Category: Politics
An obviously good argument for the right of every competent law-abiding adult to carry weapons as they choose. Don’t hear about this much in other countries nor in U. S. cities where weapon ownership is required? How are the lying politicians going to turn this around into their message for the need to disarm folks? Oh yea……”We don’t want terrorists to own weapons, so we take them away from everyone.” Yep, right on you damned politicians!
Sounds good in theory, until the 50 or so concealed carry holders, not realizing that the other 49 aren’t part of the attack start firing at one another
Oh that’s right. Things were much, much, more clear and easy to understand the way it happened. That’s a great solution to any possible confusion between law abiding gun carrying citizens.
You’re either an idiot or a troll.
I’m gonna go with C – Both idiot and troll
Dagby — Did you get a CHL to make you feel like a grown up ?? If the shit hits the fan , and you do nothing —YOU ARE A PUSSY !!!! I think it would be better if you turned in your CHL –and your man pants –right now .
Well, now we know not let Darby be carrying a sidearm or long gun when shit hits the fan, huh?
for the record I do have a CC permit here in Texas.
That does not change my point though. In a perfect world the CC holders would pull and all fire at the shooters. Then cease fire knowing the bad actors were dead.
In reality, not all will see the original shooters, some will only see the CC holders pull, and already hearing shots and knowing people are being killed, fire at the first gun they see. There will be secondary order of effect casualties, especially mid concert in a crowded venue. But hey, keep up the name calling, it makes you trolls feel good
1. The guys with concealed weapons are probably good guys.
2. The guys with Kalashnikovs are probably the bad guys.
3. When it comes to pistols, bad guys hold them sideways. Good guys don’t.
4. I’m in Texas too. If you see fat bastard pull out a pink “Hello Kitty” Sig P229, it’s me, don’t shoot. Bad guys never use pink hardware. I read it on the internet.
Texas here as well.
Dagwood … My question is this. Ok, two questions.
1. Why do you have a cc license?
2. Do you agree with the outcome in Paris vs. whatever MAY have happened if 40 or 50 citizens were legally armed!
You sound like a guy that likes to tell everyone why they are wrong. Whether it’s chastising them for having a sugar filled soda, or their choice of vehicle, or how they skinned their deer, or their choice of roofing material…. YOU… know a better way don’t you. You’re the guy at the water cooler at the office on Monday mornings that makes most calm people question why they bothered to say “good morning” or whether or not they have ptsd.
Fuck you – you know it all bitch. You have a cc license so now everyone who goes to sleep wishing Paris had FOUGHT BACK instantly are wrong because you can forswe how bad the outcome would have been. Self righteous bitch.
On further thought, you’re probably that guy who wears under armour “tactical” pants, black under armour shoes, under armour range shirts, peel off patch caps with backwards flags, while you go to the kids soccer games. Are you a veteran?
I bet you also hold your AR with your non-trigger hand as far up the weapon as possible and your elbow out perfectly horizontal thing you are Travis Haley or some shit eh?
It should be pretty easy to tell the good guys from the bad guys. The good guys are shooting up and the bad guys are shooting down. If the initial fire comes from the balcony then the return fire would be in their direction.
For the win!
Reasonable point Dagby, but for me, my preference would be to remain armed. The only real defense that comes to mind would be to somehow have sufficient police presence on every corner and particularly at large gatherings and/or events. Something like Israel. Have to agree with you; knowing everyone at an event is armed will not keep terrorists from making an attempt. The presence of Air Marshals apparently and hopefully has contributed greatly to the reduction of plane hijackers. Much as I detest the thought of living in a police state, it’s the only alternative to this type of event.
Being armed equals more choices. Being unarmed equals fewer choices. That about sums it up for me.
Right on. And if fifty people were armed only 8 or 9 would return fire anyway.
If you need a gun and don’t have one, you may never need one again…
Stupid libs like Dagby want us to be defenseless in the face of mortal danger.
I am certain that Dagby is happy that those people couldn’t shoot back after all they are just chattel and not important to the overall needs of the world…
What a moronic thing to say. That never happens Dagby, there aren’t shootouts on the streets by concealed carriers like you morons have been saying for years.
It just doesn’t happen.
Y’all remember when this kind of attack happened in Texas recently. Yeah, me either.
… hold my beer.
This!
Amen!
I hate to point this out, but it’s a concert venue. Most of them don’t let you bring in even a pocket knife, CCW or not, here in the US. Gun laws wouldn’t have helped them
So, how did the terrorists get their guns through? Oh, wait. That’s right, they don’t follow the rules.
(putting on my Social Justice Warrior hat)
Racists!!!
The reason this happened is because the poor immigrants couldn’t read the “no guns allowed” signs because they weren’t educated.
The French needs to ensure all these refugees “free” college, a well as a $15 an hour job, free medical and an infidel free safe zone!!!
(takes off SJW hat,, stomps on it)
Damn that was some idiotic shit.
True.
If you want to increase your odds of being slaughtered while the government gives zero fucks go to their dictated gun free zone.
Exactly!
Dumbass! That’s what ankle holsters and kind manners are for! Don’t be a sheep.
Do we (the US and Allies) have to go and save their self-righteous asses again? How is the open arms to the Slums working for them now? They didn’t bother to help after 9-11. I don’t think they got what they deserve, but I don’t feel real sorry for them either. And you can bet your sweet ass the US, England and Germany had better get their heads out of their asses and start locking down the boarders and raiding anyting that even looks like a cell.
“They didn’t bother to help after 9-11”
You need to review/refresh you knowledge of recent history.
The French military was a part of OEF.
French Soldiers, Paratroopers, Legionnaires, and SOF/Commandos have done plenty of hard fighting in A-Stan and a lot of them have paid the ultimate price.
Go look up Loic le Page, and maybe toast him tonight. The only difference between him and the majority of US SOF is where he was born.
http://a.c.o.ma.r.free.fr/memo_lepage_loic.htm
I’ll also add that the French have really been on point when it comes to collecting islamic terrorist scalps in Africa.
Absent French help, there might not have -been- a United States. Perhaps that plucky bunch of our Founders might have persevered absent French men, ships, guns, money, etc, but probably not in one single lifetime.
How, exactly, does one repay a debt like that?
Great Story and take on the situation Poetrooper
What a quagmire. The arguments above are great and very well founded. However, had this happened in the US, ie mass shootings, the gun grabbers would be screaming at the top of their lungs to infringe. With the “invasion” going on in Europe, the Europeans seem to be screaming, the opposite, for a way to protect themselves: Austria is on the front-line for their gun rights, France: not so much, it seems and IMHO.
Citizens should have a right to protect themselves for sure.
What is going through my head: obviously the weapons used are/were illegal. IMHO there is an invasion with the invaders segregating themselves from the born citizens of different, umm, values and beliefs, while continuing their “war against the infidel”, whether they are citizens of the respective country or not.
Fast forward my ramble/rant: Let’s assume they had similar rights as we so enjoy: purchase, ownership, self protection, etc. Would those rights not be afforded to the ones waging this war against their host country(ies)? I think not, less the host be branded racist bigots. Hypothetically, they would be legally allowed to purchase firearms in their self segregated slums, whether naturalized or born there.
So, with the newly afforded rights, again hypothetically, the “invaders” would now be able to purchase their bullet launchers legally. Now, I understand there would be legal resistance by those protecting themselves, but would this not be the same as what the gungrabbers in the US argue.
If/when something happened in “host country”: the gun grabbers would do the exact same thing: “Take the guns this would not have happened” “Do it for the Children” etc.
Ugh. Vicious circle. Regardless, fuck them. My family and I chose to protect, own and circle the wagons against those who wish harm.
Hope the above made sense.
Thoughts and prayers out to our French Brothers and Sisters.
Amen!
The children!!’ Who’ll save the children?!?!?!
Me and Sam Colt!!!
My very first thought when I heard they were up on the balconies was “push them the fuck off” ride their bodies to the floor if you have to but do something.
Crowd surfing from the second floor on the back of a screaming terrorist sounds like fun to me. Let’s make it an Olympic sport!
Aloha Snackbar!!!!
SPLAT!
It wasn’t terrorism last night. Nope it was gun violence.
https://twitter.com/MomsDemand/status/665294443638075392
Gun violence with bomb violence and loud yelling of non-politically correct religious epithets regarding Islam while shooting a large number of people. Definitely not Islamic extremism or terrorism.
Somewhere out there is a liberal idiot looking for a flag or ANYTHING else to blame.
How can you tell someone is a Libtard? They always find a way to blame America.
Libtards like to preach about how a turd can always be picked up from the clean end. But they want YOU to pick it up!
I am an American. Better men than I died to create and keep this nation free. I might disagree with my fellow Americans about many things, but I will cower before no man who seeks to destroy what makes them free.
Islam is at war with those who choose to live free. Free to disagree, free to offend each other, free think as they choose, free to speak their mind.
Those who give safe haven to those who follow its word will not soon after be reminded the Liberty is not free.
Sometimes I think I get a glimmer of what Jonn sees in you. Pass those Freedom Fries please.
I am in your corner.
I fear no one and will lay down my life in pursuit of liberty first, democracy and freedom.
My distant ancestors came here to get away from tyranny. Their descendants fought in a couple of wars.
I guess I’ll have to join that list of people.
Besides, I can cook. Bread, butter and bullets.
There is another video online of French watching events unfold on the street right out outside their house being 100% unable to do anything other than watch. The video shows people dragging bodies down the street and others during the attack literally hanging on window ledges so as not to be found or killed.
Anyone with a gun in these cases even attempting to fight back would save lives. Instead we get gut renching videos where nobody takes action and people are slaughtered like dogs in the street at the altar of political correctness.
In principal, I agree with you.
What is not being widely reported about that video is that it was taken by a French reporter (no idea what outlet/agency), who later moved into the alley in an attempt to aid some of the victims and was shot in the arm while doing so.
I’ll chalk that up to professional instinct and reaction giving way to human instinct and reaction.
Yes, you can complain, but someone does have to get the news out or we would know nothing.
This is very similar to the Mumbai attack back in 2008; the notable exception being the reaction of French law enforcement was much better, and was able to stop the attacks fairly quickly instead of taking three days.
But once again a “gun free” zone was attacked, with predictable results.
Dagby, I cannot help but note that your predicted possible “mass-mistake” outcome sounds quite a bit like the arguments made by the anti-Liberty crowd to argue against concealed carry. (and for bans) Or are you the sort that thinks that only you can control yourself in a bad situation? Or have you not trained and practiced for, or at least considered,awkward situations, including the second half of “shoot / don’t shoot” scenarios? See various comments above on how to sort out mass-shooters in a crowd. But taking your prediction at face value, so what? Even if “50” people screwed up, it is unlikely they could possibly equal the -hundreds- of people dead and wounded from the essentially -unopposed- rampage of madmen. Your imaginary fear is still less lethal than the actual situation. Personally, if I get shot by someone trying to take out a mass-murdering madman, so be it. I forgive them in advance. Bravo for at least trying. Sorry if I blocked your shot, and “go freaking practice more!” if you missed the bad guy hitting me instead. C’est La Guerre. Those dung-heads would have been elsewhere if they expected armed resistance at the convert, or anywhere else they hit. Creating the gun-free zones got those people killed. And who was arguing in favor of that? They are waging war on -us-, whatever anyone else says. And they wage -dirty- war. They will -maximize- non-combatant carnage. Get that through your heads, those of you who want to “negotiate” or “compromise”. They are counting on “you” for their conquest to succeed. Ask them. Note that the “submission” they demand of you is that of the slave to the master. In there world -no one- is “free”. All must bow to them as they bow to their twisted dream. So playing whiny “what if the good guys screw up” games is kinda counter-productive, no? But I know where that sort of thinking comes from. People who cannot fully control themselves project it upon others, and demand that those “others” be controlled. “Liberty” scares them out of their shorts. They really do… Read more »
From the G-20 today, Barry referred to what happened in Paris as a ‘crime’.
Anyone here surprized?
No.
Like David Cameron, he does not take these people seriously. Why would he?