Army postpones Martland’s discharge
According to the Military Times, the Army’s Secretary, John McHugh, has postponed for 60 days the discharge of Sergeant First Class Charles Martland, who was selected for the Qualitative Management Program (QMP) because he assaulted a child molesting Afghan police chief in 2011. The postponement is to allow for Martland to file another appeal to the decision;
McHugh added that despite “talk that this case has been brought to me, and I have had a hand in it, I have not. This is a routine administrative process that does not, in any way, involve my office.”
The Army must respect the process in cases like this, McHugh said.
“We respect the rights of the individual soldier in these kinds of cases,” he said. “If we are going to make a mistake here, we are going to make it in favor of the rights of the soldier.”
The QMP is an administrative tool that is designed to remove soldiers from the Army who are poor performers, folks who probably won’t get promoted. SFC Martland is probably in that group, but the reason he’s in the QMP is for completely political reasons. He’s being eliminated for the same reasons that the Army exposed soldiers to green-on-blue attacks. When the Army gets involved in the politics of war, the soldiers are always the losers.
Category: Army News
I dunno, we’re I in his position, would I want to even bother, knowing that Big Army is basically in coverass mode? And even if I didn’t get the boot, I’d be spending the rest of my career looking over my shoulder and having every move I made scrutinized to the most minute detail?
Fuck it. Army doesn’t deserve men of honor and integrity like SFC Martland.
I think these two men should tell the pervert protecting army pussies to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine and go join the MARINE CORPS!!
If you think for a second the USMC has a different policy on Bacha Bazi you are even dumber than any Marine I ever met. Just ask LCPL Buckley, god rest his soul.
“When the Army gets involved in the politics of war, the soldiers are always the losers.” – Yup
I’d be interested in knowing his grounds for going to the Army Board for Correction of Military Records? I’d have to think that he had gone down this route before. If the GOMAR/relief for cause NCOER was put in his file, its going to be hard to pull that out.
OutFUCKINGstanding!
I have always supported what he did to the police perv and always will. However I think he should have started his fight back in 2011 when the letter of reprimand and NCOER were written. He stood a better chance of getting those removed back then. Now it’s just an admin process where he is no different than any other E7 with similar paperwork in their file.
The STFU order (a/k/a gag order) imposed by the Army sealed this one for me. FTA. I wonder how many job offers SFC Martland has received from the private sector since this story broke. I would think the number high and would not be disappointed at all if, after the Army reconsiders its position and vacates the bad paper, SFC Martland were to say. “Thanks. Now, GFY!”
I like that plan. Like it a lot.
I am sure the Book deals and T.V Peoples options we the big factor in this. Its nothing to do with the right thing.
I can see it now:
“SCREWED OVER BY P.C., The SFC Martland Saga”.
I am just a regular citizen outside this whole process. My involvement with the Army ended in 1976. As a citizen, I want to see the Army behaving correctly – unlike what I see right now – so SFC Martland should fight. From SFC Martland’s position, I would say “screw it”.
The Army is a huge meat grinder. When it comes to things like promotions and assignments, The Army will never accept that it made a mistake. No one wants to think that they belong to an organization that made a mistake and accepting that the Army made a mistake is going against the institution they belong to. (sarc) And fighting against Big Army is something that only a mean-spirited whiner would do (/sarc).
In this case and based on what I read, the Army is wrong and SFC Martland should be praised for representing American values. But like individuals in all large organizations there is little hope for the wronged individual unless he gets high-level support. Been there. Done that. Got the tee shirt. And the scars.
You aren’t just a “citizen” in all this. You served and did your time brother. You’re a veteran.
The bigger problem in this is that incompetence at higher levels (like in HRC) isn’t held accountable. Those types of bureaucrats and bean counters don’t care about how they effect others in the Army (even if they effect thousands).
But yes, while at the lowest levels they teach you to admit when you’re wrong and fix it, at places like HRC and DA, they never admit wrong doing or incompetence.
“If we are going to make a mistake here, we are going to make it in favor of the rights of the soldier.”
That’s a flat out lie. The QMP process isn’t looking at extenuating circumstances or erring on the side of the Soldier. The QMP process and HRC are purely out to kick Soldiers to the curb for any excuse.
The only reason McHugh got involved in this is because its in the news and Congress has involvement.
Also, McHugh is the one that signs the QMP directives. So saying his office isn’t involved is also a lie because he’s signing to implement them.
How many others were QMP’d for even one piece of paper in a significant career of stellar performance? Dozens? Hundreds?
What is also sad is how the system is looking at “mitigating circumstances” for Bergdahl’s case. So, a deserter gets “mitigating” but not someone getting QMP’d.
The only reason McHugh got involved in this is because its in the news and Congress has involvement.
Bingo. When the Chairman of the HASC calls the SECARMY about something – and follows that phone call up with a letter expressing his/her concerns – does anyone really think the SECARMY is going to do nothing?
Answer: no. They’re at least going to do something that gives the appearance of doing something. The HASC effectively controls the majority of what ends up in the Pentagon’s budget, and how it’s distributed among the services. The HASC Chairman talks, the Pentagon listens.
Absent that intervention, Martland’s career would be toast. It may well be anyway, but at least he now has at least one more shot.
You mean like the DOJ investigation (!) into the bombing of a Syrian hospital recently?
I lay this mess at the feet of his chain of command and whoever wiped their ass with his NCOER. This is Special Forces. They could have quashed this, sent him home, or moved him to say a LNO (L&O? I forget what they call those NCOs from subordinate units working in the higher TF TOCs) job in some TOC. And what about the process for disputing a NCOER? I never saw someone do it while I was in, but I’ve heard it can take years to fight off a bum NCOER. None of the articles I’ve seen hear have even mentioned him using the dispute process to fight the NCOER. I hope I’m wrong and he has been fighting it.
Agreed. His chain-of-command screwed him, IMO probably in order to play politics and/or cover their own asses. Put another way, they hung him out to dry to keep the heat off of themselves.
What he deserved was a locally-filed GOMR (NOT to be filed in the OMPF) and a nonpunitive transfer for his own safety. (Ditto for his OIC.) However, this would likely have gotten his chain-of-command smoked by their bosses – and they weren’t willing to take that heat. So instead, what Martland got was a permanently-filed GOMR and a relief-for-cause NCOER. Best I can tell, either alone is enough these days to be a career-killer.
Regarding appealing an NCOER or OER: very difficult. An eval is presumed correct if it makes it to the OMPF. Further, the rating officials have much leeway to use their own judgement in evaluating a subordinate’s performance. Absent a formal investigation showing that the original eval was grossly in error and/or was a deliberate “hatchet job” for malicious reasons, best I can tell it’s extremely difficult to have one removed from an OMPF. Even then, a few situations I’ve seen and/or BCMR decisions I’ve reviewed lead me to believe even a formal investigation documenting likely malfeasance doesn’t always work.
Further, it’s possible to write an eval for such a situation as Martland’s so that it is virtually impossible to appeal because it’s absolutely factual or completely within the rating chain’s subjective judgment. If his Bn/Gp commanders each said something to the effect of the following, it might be virtually impossible to have the eval removed from his file.
“Excellent performance of duty prior to DD/MM/YYYY. On that date, became involved in physical altercation with senior local officials. I no longer have trust and confidence in this individual’s leadership ability or judgement, and have therefore directed his relief for cause and reassignment out-of-theater.”
Hondo, I think you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head! Spineless chain of command from CJSOTF all the way back to group.
Yep, another example of how the Army doesn’t truly err on the side of the Soldier.
About fucking time there was some good news in this debacle.
One guy doing the right thing and getting fucked over hard is a problem for me…
Especially when we are letting shitbags who torture kids and rape them run free because they’re our allies.
Really?
What the fuck have we become that we overlook that?
The Army can go fuck itself if this is how we conduct business these days, there’s a huge disconnect when the US has allies like this.
I already have a huge problem with cozying up to shitbag muslim nations where women are chattel to be beaten and used….
A deal with the devil to get at another devil still robs you of your soul, honor is a word oft used here when discussing posers. I would submit there’s little honor in what we as a nation are doing with these so called allies at this time.
“If we are going to make a mistake here, we are going to make it in favor of the rights of the soldier.”
Really? Well, here’s a soldier that needs you to make that mistake for him, Big Army. Get right on that, won’t you?
Not a veteran, just a citizen. Absolutely disgusted. Don’t tell me it is “their culture”. It is Bubba’s culture to fly the stars and bars and use the “n word”. We don’t tolerate here and should not ask our soldiers to tolerate it there on their bases. Period.
/rant off.
60 days is just enough for this story to drop below the fold.
Thank God for the QMP, huh? We sure as hell wouldn’t want to keep some slacker who made E-7 in less than 10 years, did multiple combat tours with SF and earned just about every hooah badge there is.
But you can bet the never-deployed, permanent profile E-7 or E-8 who’s been polishing a desk chair with his ample ass at a comfy stateside post will make his “safe harbor” at 18 and be allowed to retire with his full benefits.
I have to agree with the first commenter: The Army doesn’t deserve this guy.
Hell there are E-9s without even one Deployment, let alone 7s and 8s. But heaven forbid we make E-9s get out who have no value added.
I knew one at Bragg who sat in the same position for just under a decade (9 years, 9 months) holding up promotions for E-8s because he didn’t want to “move”. He spent the last 5 years of that working on a civilian position for him after he retired.
But then the growth and future of training in the next ten years is going to be the E-7s and 8s right now that are getting the boot because of even one bad piece of paper.
Oh, don’t get me started on E-9s.
Here’s a fun game to play: Imagine that tonight at midnight, every E9 in the Army vanished into a puff of smoke.
How long would it take for people to notice? I would guess maybe a week when the grass in the battalion area started to get too long (the company area would be pristine because Company 1SG is all over that.)
I’ve often regarded the E9 rank as a kind of “early retirement.”
Ya mean like a R.O.A.D. (Retired On Active Duty) ASSignment, one like the Garrison SGM that drives around an Army Post in a GSA sedan inspecting people’s lawns and issuing “Lawn Tickets” for the ones he or she doesn’t like?
I love how McHugh throws his hands in the air and says “not my decision, I have no say in this whatsoever. I have no idea what you rubes are talking about.” This is the state of senior “leadership” in the Army today. Get fucked, McHugh.
And here’s the thing: I don’t worry too much about SFC Martland. Guys like him don’t go away quietly and find a safe job with the post office. One way or another, his future’s secure, I’m confident of that.
Even without the publicity this story has brought him, a soldier with his experience and his qualifications? Government agencies and private sector employers would be falling all over themselves to hire him. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if every lunch SFC Martland has eaten for the last few months has been paid for by an employer’s recruiter or headhunter.
But losing SFC Martland would be a HUGE loss for the ARMY. Not only has the Army invested a lot in training him, but what he has learned could be passed on to younger soldiers to keep THEM alive and successful on the battlefield.
Classic case of the Army shooting itself in the foot, realizing what it’s done, and stopping only long enough to reload.
Exactly. I’m sure his chain even provided support letters to him for the board saying, “The ARMY would lose out if he were separated”.
This is why bureaucrats and HRC especially shouldn’t be in charge of the QMP board process. They are just checking the block to kick as many as possible. It doesn’t matter to them if it benefits the Army or not because they don’t get benefit from it either way.
Unfortunately, I can’t see any good way around having HRC – or some similar entity – run something like QMP, RIF, or SER boards. Maybe there is such a way, but if so it beats the hell out of me.
To have a consistent review for something like the above, you really need to do it centrally – with the same group looking at everyone’s file. That’s why the Army uses central boards for SNCO, WO, and Officer promotion and retention boards. For those grades, the numbers are manageable – making the overhead involved tolerable.
You can’t really parcel it out an expect consistent results. Keeping the review standards synchronized between multiple command boards just isn’t feasible.
Further, parceling the reductions out by command based on numbers assigned, then telling the commands to “find their duds” guarantees nothing except that you’ll cut some deserving people and keep some that should go. Some commands are going to have more than their fair share of those who need to go, while some will have less than their fair share. A “salami slice” a reduction (e.g., everybody cuts X%) merely guarantees a least a few deserving retention will go – and that a few deserving to go will stay.
I don’t much like the current process, and it does seem to need alteration somewhere along the line. But figuring out how to do it without having HRC or some other central personnel agency execute the function is beyond me.
Maybe the process needs to be two-phase: ID plus a mandatory appeal process. Maybe holding SER and RIF boards one year, and QMP the next would help. Dunno.
It’s a wicked problem. Be damned if I see the solution.
Maybe you’re not looking big enough.
Let’s face it, the current system of 20-or-nothing retirement is at the core of the “dud problem.” Dud NCO’s and officers need to stay in until they hit their 20 or they walk away with zero retirement benefits.
Furthermore, the 20-or-nothing system also highlights the arbitrariness and unfairness of the system. Make it to 20 and you can retire at half pay unless you murder somebody, but get booted out at 17 years and 10 months and you get diddly squat (18 years is the “safe harbor” or at least it used to be.)
It’s common to say that a dud is a dud is a dud, but how many “duds” who get QMP’d due to weight or other things, go on to perfectly successful careers after the military? More than a few from my personal knowledge.
How many of us knew bitter, angry E-6’s who would freely admit they were just marking time until they hit 20 so they could retire? Most of the ones I knew even said “if I could retire today, even at a diminished rate, I would.” But if he gets out at 12 or 14 or 15 years he gets nothing. Zip.
A more graduated retirement system would do two things: It would encourage those who are no longer contributing to the military to move on to another career without jeopardizing the benefits they’ve worked for, and it would lessen the sting for those who get booted out before they hit the safe harbor.
Our current retirement system was created for a military that needed 20 divisions to repel the Commie hordes coming through the Fulda Gap. We need to come up with a better system that is geared towards the needs of the modern military.
One company I used to work for had a profit sharing plan available, but you didn’t get the money up front. Basically you became more vested (access to the returns) as your time of employment increased, to where after 10 years (IIRC) you were 100% vested in the system.
Do you think having a similar system of partial vestment in retirement benefits be useful? Say start 5% vestment at 8 or 10 years, then 10% per year?
Those are just numbers off the top of my head, but it sounds like what you were suggesting.
Different but complementary problems, I think. I was addressing how to reduce end-strength when required. I belive you’re more addressing how to manage the force in “steady-state” situations in such a way as to retain the correct people.
I think ways are handling both are needed – and always will be. I also think the two problems are interrelated but separate. A solution to one may help solve the other, but won’t necessarily do so completely (and maybe not at all).
Your ideas may well have merit, and should be looked at. But I just don’t see their immediate application to the post-war, “We’re now too big and have to reduce manning” problem. We’ve seen that a problem number of times now (post World Wars I and I; post Korea; post Vietnam; post Cold-War; today). You’d think we’d be better able to handle it today than we seem to be.
“When the Army gets involved in the politics of war, the soldiers are always the losers.”
Might be nitpicking but the way I see this issue is:
When a military allows degenerate moral cowards to rise in the ranks of command by playing politician, the country always looses.
The only way they can un-fuck this is to flat out say that the SOP the Army was operating under (Non-interference in Afghan misconduct) was invalid.
Will never happen. They can do an end around and figure out an administrative way to deep six the Eval ( incorrect dates, wrong reporting sr, Etc) but it won’t happen.
That would mean that some pampered office gazelle or “Day-Ho” would have to admit THEY screwed the pooch which almost never happens. In this case they’ll have to admit they sided with an extremely sick third world goat-molesting fleabag!
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