And In the “YGBSM!” Department . . .
. . . it looks like the “best and brightest” working for the VA were at it again.
It seems that some VA medical facilities recently distributed a flyer indicating prohibited items. Bring them to an exam, and you would not be seen.
The fliers were apparently mailed to some vets with appointment letters. The VA also posted similar signs at some medical facilities depicting those prohibited items.
Here are some pictures of the flier and signs:


No, you’re eyes aren’t playing tricks on you. For a while, in part of the US the VA actually was telling people that if they brought a smartphone or backpack to an appointment, they would not be seen. (The flier and signs actually depicted an iPhone, but presumably any smartphone – and probably, any cell phone – would have been similarly banned.)
The VA has since backpedaled, and has announced the policy was “ill advised” . The VA has also apparently cancelled the policy – though they did not explain why the policy was ever instituted in the first place.
Now, why might the VA do something like this? Well, it seems that at least one vet has used a recording device at a VA appointment – likely a cell or smart phone – to obtain a personal record of what was actually said at that appointment. They did so in Minnesota, which is a “one party” consent state regarding the recording of conversations (Federal law and 38 states require one-party-consent regarding the recording of conversations).
One plausible explanation is that the VA doesn’t want anyone else to have a separate record of what’s actually said in their appointments, so they tried to prevent that by banning cell phones. If so, that was indeed “ill advised”.
Now, I’m sure there are other plausible explanations. I just wish I could think of what one of those other plausible explanations might be.
The really sad part about all this? This whole idea was obviously utter and complete idiocy. Any one with enough common sense to p!ss in the toilet vice the bathroom’s wastebasket would have seen that immediately.
But coming from VA administrators? This doesn’t surprise me one bit.
I’m seriously beginning to wonder if the VA is salvageable.
AUTHOR’S NOTES (IMPORTANT):
1. If you’re thinking about taking a smartphone/MP3 player/other recording device to your next VA appointment and recording it, please CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS FIRST. A number of states (11) appear to require the consent of ALL parties to a conversation before it may be legally recorded. If you live in one of those states, you cannot legally record your appointment unless you get the permission of all present to record.
2. While I believe the last link to the PDF document listing state recording laws (last link above) to be accurate, the document appears to be from 2013 – and laws change from time to time. I strongly recommend that you double check it against Lexis or another up-to-date source of state and local laws if you’re thinking about recording an appointment based on assumed one-party consent law in your state. It’s possible your state’s law has changed since that document was prepared in 2013.
Category: "Teh Stoopid", "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", "Your Tax Dollars At Work", Veteran Health Care, Veterans' Affairs Department
Just an update Hondo….
“Oh, we’re sorry.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/01/va-apologizes-for-ill-advised-ban-on-veterans-cellphones/
Emily Litella works for the VA, apparently.
Goddamn it Martin…
*snerk* giggle….LMFAO
I wonder what GS-27 (/sarc) Fecal Cranium Syndrome (FCS) sufferer came up with this idea? And, are they in line for a promotion?
Not only YGTBSM but maybe VA to Vets…GFY.
“One plausible explanation is that the VA doesn’t want anyone else to have a separate record of what’s actually said in their appointments”
Case and point.
Especially when you do not have qualified medical personnel giving exams and evaluations.
I have been bringing my medical issues to every appointment and not getting service.
I don’t know what to think.
PS: There is NO restriction on lawfully recording meetings in the federal government. Further, to suggest that I can not bring my cell phone is ridiculous! Moroons I tell you, moroons all of them.
MCPO: while there is no Federal prohibition on recording any conversation to which you are a party, state law may prohibit it without the consent of all parties to the conversation. A lady named Tripp found that out the hard way when she nearly got charged in MD for recording telephone conversations between herself and a MD resident without their consent.
The last link above shows NY as a “one-party consent” state. But I’d strongly recommend double-checking that with a lawyer you know and trust before executing. I seem to remember you indicating you know one or more. (smile)
Is the state law not applicable when it’s a federal facility?
Federal law is “one party consent” as well, so in this case the two laws (Federal and NY) appear to be equivalent. An act that violates one would violate both.
Not a lawyer, so I’m not positive. But the answer regarding state law applicability appears to be yes. The Assimilative Crimes Act (18 USC 13) appears to make state law operative within Federal facilities when Federal law does not specifically address a particular crime defined under state law. That is why murder committed in Federal facilities (or on military reservations by persons not subject to the UCMJ) can be prosecuted as state crimes, and I believe they generally are. If I recall correctly, except for the UCMJ Federal law prohibits only the murder of selected Federal officials – and the UCMJ in general doesn’t apply to US citizens in CONUS. Prior to the JFK assassination, other than the UCMJ prohibition against murder Federal law was silent regarding that crime.
http://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-667-assimilative-crimes-act-18-usc-13
You sure you aren’t a Lawyer Hondo? Geeze you’re smart on this lawyerly stuff.
Just don’t try taking any photos in the lobby of the Dallas Federal Building. Prohibited!
Is the VA salvageable? Maybe. If you remove the union stuff and the upper echelons and replace unqualified personnel with medical professionals, it could be improved.
I’m just curious what the wheelchair bound vets were supposed to do if they couldn’t carry backpacks. Also, what of the people who are carrying their files with them for review appointments.
It was a stupid idea meant to protect the VA rather than to help the Vets.
I received one of these and ended up being so concerned about blowing the appointment with an examiner regarding a claim that I left my oxygen (a small bottle in a backpack) in the car and, well, hung in there as best I could.
I recently saw a women caring her elderly service dog in a backpack. Good luck stopping her at her appointment.
Will someone please fire someone, anyone at the VA? Pleaseeeee!!!
This is lunacy, waste, fraud and abuse.
How much $$$$$ did this cost the taxpayers?
These people are terminally stupid.
Because I have to travel such a great distance and frequently spend hours waiting around between appointments, I always take my guitar and crossword puzzles, along with my cell phone, knife, pocket tool, and miniature flashlight.
No one has ever bothered me about any of those things.
The VA books me into the Ramada Inn for overnight stays, feeds me in the mess hall, and transports me back and forth on the VA bus, plus they pay me for my mileage driving to and from Salt Lake City, except when their bureaucracy loses my paperwork, in which case (as has happened twice this Summer), I don’t get paid.
I have appointments on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of this next week, so I’ve a long, scenic drive through the high desert and forested mountains to and from Salt Lake City, and I reckon they’ll put me in the Ramada Inn for a couple or three nights.
In any event, I’m always prepared with my camping gear and prohibited items, just in case of an unforeseen problem, such as a mechanical breakdown, bureaucratic SNAFU, or if someone else is in trouble and I am able to assist.
It’s how things are done here in the wide open, modern wild West.
Again- seems to me Dr. Carson’s idea to eliminate the VA and have DOD take over its job may be an idea worth considering.
I hadn’t heard about that.
That does sound like a good idea.
Unfortunately, all they’d do is “transfer” all the dumbass administrative types to work for DoD doing the same job.
The medical personnel would probably have a tougher time getting hired over and we’d end up dealing with military docs who are used to just fixing you up enough to fight versus fixing you.
If they put some of these dirtbags committing fraud and causing deaths in prison for it, that would help fix the issue much better I think.
I can only imagine the millions of dollars it cost to produce that then the millions its going to take to remove and create new ones. I hope the people being fired for this are also charged with fraud.
Who am I kidding. They’ve been promoted and are now the VA’s top men….