Pilots complain about rules of engagement against ISIS
Fox News reports that some pilots are complaining to them that the rules of engagement (ROE) under which they operate in the skies over Iraq and Syria are way too restrictive, sometimes taking as much as an hour for clearance to pull the trigger. This is not my shocked face;
A former U.S. Air Force general who led air campaigns over Iraq and Afghanistan also said today’s pilots are being “micromanaged,” and the process for ordering strikes is slow — squandering valuable minutes and making it possible for the enemy to escape.
“You’re talking about hours in some cases, which by that time the particular tactical target left the area and or the aircraft has run out of fuel. These are excessive procedures that are handing our adversary an advantage,” said retired Lt. Gen. David Deptula, a former director of the Combined Air Operations Center in Afghanistan in 2001.
Of course, the Pentagon is quick to dispute the charge;
A spokesman for the U.S. Air Force’s Central Command pushed back: “We refute the idea that close air support strikes take ‘an hour on average’. Depending on the how complex the target environment is, a strike could take place in less than 10 minutes or it could take much longer.
“As our leaders have said, this is a long-term fight, and we will not alienate civilians, the Iraqi government or our coalition partners by striking targets indiscriminately.”
The enemy takes advantage of the ROE by hiding behind civilian targets and using them for cover from air power, which seems to be an effective counter-measure. However, ISIS doesn’t seem to be restrained by the same arbitrary rules, and they don’t seem to be concerned at all about public relations.
Category: Terror War
ISIS IS concerned with public relations. That’s exactly why they hide behind civilians. It’s win-win for them, they either avoid being bombed or they get to use the the corpses of women and children killed by American bombs as recruiting aids.
We need to offer them a nice sized Iraqi city on a silver platter and exterminate them once they’re out in the open. Ramadi would have been very useful for this, but the powers that be were caught with their fucking pants down.
Ya know, a few well-placed strategic thermonuclear warheads would make all these problems go away…
I still think a motion for carpet bombing would not be ruled out of order …
This all comes down from that worthless turd in the whitehouse….throw the s.o.b. in prison and put a ‘MAN” in the office and watch the changes!!
LTC Allen West for president!
One of the great advantages we had over the Soviets, et al, was allowing the pilots to make the decisions on site.
The Soviets, Chinese, etc., relied way too heavily on centralized command and control, and the results showed.
Nice to see this is what happens when politicians and Lawyers fight wars instead of warriors.
We REALLY need to wash our hands of that whole mess. We’re wasting our time, money, and resources…and don’t even get me started on limp-wristed, silk-pantied, perfumed and hairless princes that think they know where and how our pilots should attack their targets.
This is a racist post. It is ISIL, not ISIS. Dear Leader said so. We have defeated ISIS.
If they run, they’re ISIS. If they stand still, they’re well disciplined ISIS.
Here ended the lesson.
Get some!
I can just hear the conversation now.
Pilot: Permission to fire.
Fire central: Hold on a minute. We’re waiting on a reply.
Pilot: Reply? I have the target in sight. Need to fire now.
FC: We have the request on emergency.
Pilot: Taking a leak in a flood is an emergency. I’ll lose the target. Permission to fire.
FC: Oh, hold on. I think it’s coming. Nope, that was our pizza order confirmed. Oh, here it comes… uh, okay — it says, need confirmation of target.
Pilot: Huh?
FC: Need confirmation of target for go-ahead.
Pilot: Too late, sport.
FC: Why? We sent your message off. They just want confirmation of target.
Pilot: Elvis has left the building. That’s why. Aaah, fuck this shit. I think I’ll go fly a news helicopter.
That fits well with that “prompt – as little as 10 minutes” they claim. Does anyone in the Pentagon have a clue how far targets can disperse in 10-60 minutes?
I’d be lying if I said any of this surprises me.
We just keep playing fuck around as if that somehow becomes a game changer organically.
As long as we are worried about our Iraqi “partners” ( I do not believe that word means what the puzzle palace wizards think it means.) tender sensibilities nothing will be effective in slowing down these advances.
We need to decide what our mission with Iraq is going to be long term…we can keep wishing in one hand and shitting in the other to see which fills up first or we can get after a long term plan that either involves an occupation for 50-70 years by US troops or we can come up with a plan to orchestrate economic relations with ISIS after they take over the entire country. Either way is fine with me, but any other option is simply a failed plan awaiting termination upon failure.
Pretending that shitbag army has any chance of stopping ISIS without spine strengthening with the presence of actual boots on the ground combat troops from the USA is just that, pretense.
Time to put on the big boy/girl pants in DC and get after it.
The enemy will no doubt take advantage of the (theoretical) loiter time of the F35. One more reason to keep the A10.
I wonder whether State’s Harf didn’t train the Pentagon spokesperson. The claim is that “strike missions take, on average, just under an hour.” And the spokesperson responds,“We refute the idea that close air support strikes take ‘an hour on average’. Depending on the how complex the target environment is, a strike could take place in less than 10 minutes or it could take much longer.”
Huh? I’m no math guy, but that doesn’t refute the claim, does it? It’s an average and the spokesperson talks about some strikes taking less than 10 minutes and others “much longer.” So, if you average them, what’s the result? Probably, “just under an hour.”
I am confused as to why the ROE need to be sorted out while on a mission.
Shouldn’t the ROE be simple? Something like “if you see bad guys, fire at them? If you aren’t sure they are bad, check with us and we’ll have an answer for you in 30 seconds if there are ‘friendlies’ in the area,”
I don’t care if the Pentagon wants to maintain that the approval to engage is 10 minutes or not.
In my opinion, and in the worst case scenario, that is about 9 minutes and 30 seconds too long.
Just from what I’ve read (those of you that have actually been there please correct me if I’m wrong), the ROE isn’t designed to kill bad guys, or even protect our troops; it’s to prevent as many ‘innocent bystander’ injuries and deaths as possible. That’s why the decision to fire has been taken out of the hands of our troops on the ground – and apparently, in the air as well.
Like some colonel in the middle east knows more than the pilot with a mark 1 mod 0 eyeball? This must be more complicated than I think it should be.