Israel closes tanks to women
AFP reports that the Israeli Defense Forces have decided to exclude women from their armor units because the jobs involved too much physical work;
News website Ynet and other outlets reported that after an inquiry, military chiefs had concluded the requirements for tank crew exceeded the physiological capabilities of most women.
Women can join combat units only when those units do not require excessive physical abilities or direct contact with the enemy, the daily Haaretz quoted the authors of the report as saying.
The report also cited the close confines of a tank as being unsuitable for women to serve alongside men, as is already the case in the submarine service.
According to the article, the IDF was mandated to integrate women into combat units “unless there was a valid reason not to do so”, you know just like the mandate from the US Department of Defense recently. Everyone likes to point out to me that “the Israelis do it” so we must conform to their standard (well, except when the IDF is killing terrorists). I know this won’t change anyone’s minds about allowing women in combat arms, but at least they’ll finally stop lecturing me on the Israelis and how they “do it”.
Category: Military issues
Holy cow some of those ladies are smokin’ hot. That’s all.
🙂
*tanks* for reminding us of their hotness.
FourteenSierra, you too! I was thinking what tanks, what weapons, look at them babes!
When Guam was in Haifa, the IDF ladies came aboard and did a fashion show for us. It was late 80’s – early 90’s haute couture so a little out there but whatever. Cute girls are cute girls.
I’ve always had an affinity for women in uniform, and for some odd reason, particularly IDF women in uniform. If I had had the desire to learn Hebrew as a teen, my career path might have looked decidedly different.
Maybe because of the guns? :-). They don’t make them cut their hair short either. Wonder if that have a Tat policy?
Jewish law bans tattoos, and Israel is a Jewish state, so I’m guessing ‘no ink’. Bear in mind that I neither have nor claim to have any authority to speak for the IDF or any other branch / component of the Israeli government.
True that traditional Judaism bans tattoos. But about 75% of Israelis are not traditional religious. Tattoos have become increasingly common in Israel. If one enters the IDF with tattoos, there’s no problem from what I know. Getting tattoos during service could be a problem, because it would fall under the restrictions on getting private medical treatment or procedures while in the army.
I have an affinity for women out of their uniforms and in negligees. I also have an affinity for women with nice round butts–not the kind one could serve a seven-course meal on. Just nice, round butts.
https://youtu.be/8CQcflwGnyA
In that video, some of the female soldiers are wearing red leather boots.
Those boots are only issued to, and worn by, Israeli paratroopers.
Israeli Airborne training is not just parachuting, but is more akin to Airborne Ranger training in the United States Army.
John, your information is out of date. Red boots are no longer ‘paratrooper only’. They were in my time (the 80s) and before; but that changed sometime in the last 30 years or so. A number of newer units now claim to have an airborne ‘legacy’, and so wear red boots even though they don’t know a static line from a canopy; and may never set foot in a fixed wing aircraft (and likely not RW, either). My old unit has one paratroop battalion (red berets and boots), and two ‘regular’ battalions. Today, all the youngsters in the latest iteration of the unit are wearing red boots; because the new version was originally stood up by guys from the paratroop battalion. Yet only the fellows in the recon arm are going to jump school. That’s just one example of several. Also, while it is true that the Paratroop or Airborne Brigade does serious, advanced light infantry training and all had to do at least squad leader school in my period; jump school is also attended by individuals for different ‘rewards’ and attaboys. I absolutely guarantee that those girls are not jump qualified. Even if some got a pair of wings; they are not paratroop qualified. That would require far longer and more rigorous training than any of them do individually or as a unit. Caracal, specifically, is a second-string infantry battalion. Literally. Note that during any serious combat operations, like the one in Gaza recently, they are not present. They are limited to a relatively quiet section of border. If it ever gets unquiet, one of the proper infantry units will be called in, along with armor in that sector. This is not meant to detract from Caracal and what they do; but they are not expected, by definition, to be a line unit in any sense that infantry at war is meant to be. Their infantry prowess is a step above the Border Police (who do some small unit maneuver training just in case), but far below the normal infantry units in the IDF. Note, too, that old photos… Read more »
@ MEDIC 09:
Thank you for the update and correction.
As a former member of the 101st Airborne Division “Screaming Eagles”, I was delighted to learn that Israel ALSO has a unit called the “101st Airborne”, i.e., the 101st Airborne Battalion “Cobras”, which is actually a special operations unit, and I think I remember reading that Bibi Netanyahu served in that unit, with distinction.
I don’t recall where Bibi started his service, though I’m sure it is public record (unlike if I wanted to know anything about POTUS).
In the 50s, before there was a Paratroop brigade, Unit 101 was the elite (and sometimes troublesome) raiding unit. When the Paratroop Brigade was stood up, Unit 101 became battalion 101. In my time in the IDF, the 80s, there was no 101 battalion. When 50 battalion was taken to stand up the new iteration of the Nahal, 101 battalion was restored as a parachute battalion. I think it still is.
Gee. Sounds a lot like the former US legal or regulatory guidance for excluding women from combat arms specialties.
Wonder why the Israeli’s decided to go “back to the future”?
As I understand it, they’ve done this before.
During their 1948 war, they did have females serve in combat units, but soon abandoned that concept, as it didn’t work out as they’d hoped.
The Russians encountered the same problems of experimenting with females in combat during World War II.
In Israel, a female soldier was court-martialed for failing to stop Palestinian infiltrators from Gaza.
When Israeli soldiers found her, she was hiding, and in tears.
Our own United States Army had similar difficulties when invading Panama.
They just don’t publicize it.
Okay, I have no issues or vested interest with this, but could they stop recruiting the young hot guys for combat? Send in the old farts instead.
Hey! I have a 214!!!!
Heehee! 😉
Maybe too many “old farts” in a closed hatch tank is part of the reason that women are being excluded.
Hey, MRE chemical warfare is no joke.
No shit!
Hot sweaty female IDF soldiers in tanks + signs “IF THE TANK IS ROCKIN’ … DON’T COME KNOCKIN'” = a totally ineffective armor force.
I am definately torn on this one.
I could care less that they can’t be tankers.
Just as long as off-duty they all look like Ziva in that backless blue number singing “Temptation.”
https://youtu.be/zX0gDdZFiJ4
I knew if I put that little plug in there someone would pull up the video for our viewing pleasure.
Thanks, JRM, you did well.
All I can say is, whether you’re male or female, if you don’t get a warm and fuzzy reaction out of that scene, you’re dead.
Oh my.
The actress that plays Ziva is actually Chilean.
Chilean-Schimilean. Whatever. Hubba Hubba!!
Either way I wouldn’t want to get into a knife fight with her.
CLAW131 Me either! Now I gotta got to the bathroom for some “me” time! 😀 😀 😀
Sparks !! You’ve been in the bathroom for almost six hours. We all know what you’re doing in there !!
Are you done yet? Time to “come” out of there and go outside to get some fresh air.
Big Smile.
CLAW131, WHEW! Thanks brother! Sometimes I really get caught up in my “me time”. It’s already the next day! Who knew? It’s okay now, the blood is coming back to my brain pan and the fresh air is helping. I’m better now. 😀
Ok, boys. Game on:
Pinto Nag, thank you and THANK YOU!
No big surprise here. We use to call it commen sense. But haven forbid we use our head
https://youtu.be/UKymPfiDsjM
I was THERE, August of 1971, on a special thirty-day leave from the 501st Signal Battalion of the 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile) in the old Republic of Viet Nam.
I stayed at the Park Hotel in Tel Aviv, and took guided tours all over Israel.
If you ever get a chance to go there, you’ve just GOT to do it!
Israel really is a combination of the Bible – – – , and Hollywood!
The Israeli’s have finally figured it out. Now will America follow suit. Not likely.
And isn’t it funny that liberal’s HATE the IDF almost as much as they hate our military. Until they need to use “well the IDF has women in front line units” to make the point that we should be doing it as well. The hypocrisy is so rich and flavorful.
And the IDF covered all of the area’s that have been major concerns since all of this nonsense started. Women do not possess the physical strength of men and the close quarters of front line units will cause problems of a sexual nature. Of course, now that the IDF has decided this is a problem, liberals will just ignore what the experts had to say. Like they do with anything else that does not follow the narrative of “diversity is awesome”.
To be clear: despite nearly everyone’s misunderstanding outside of Israel (repeated in the lead of this article) – IDF women have NOT been in serious combat MOSs since 1948. Everyone likes to hold up the example of the Caracal mixed-gender infantry battalion. They are NOT a front-line unit. They are tasked with holding down a border area with the Egyptians where business is usually pretty slow. The women do infantry tasks not much beyond what the women in some Border Police units do. So they were never a good example of placing women in combat arms; certainly not infantry. Women are not infantry soldiers in any of the top-tier infantry units like Airborne, Golani, Givati, etc. Notice no unit with women in critical roles participated in the recent operations in Gaza. Despite being nearby and based in the South, the Caracal battalion took no role in the operations; while the regular infantry and armor units were brought in from as far as the Northern borders. As to the story here – I fear this may not be the end of the story just yet. The PC crowd has definitely been agitating in Israel. The background to this story is: the respected IDF journal Maarchot had an article in the last issue by two of the IDF Medical Corps’ top research physiologists. They made a clear case that women do not have, as a rule, the physiological ability for most combat arms tasks over any long period of time; and that they should continue to be tasked with combat or support roles that do not require the strength and stamina that most combat roles require. I’d have to find the article on my hard drive; but I recall they gave examples of acceptable roles such as Intelligence, physicians, etc. When the article was reported in the Israeli press, a spokesman for either IDF or MoD (I forgot which; I think IDF) basically said ‘we’re not concerned with their opinion and will continue to integrate women into more roles in the IDF’. Just what you see in the story linked here. In… Read more »
Ladies, you do all realize that this thread is nothing more than a chance for the TAH men to look at hot IDF women?
Next subject.
Ah hell. Soon there will be pictures of the Sergeant Major of the Army here.
I’m okay with that, as long as Jonn doesn’t post them. NEVER ask Jonn to post female eye-candy. NEVER.
*shudders at the thought*
Well, I guess that must be my cue to post a photo or two of our own “Chippendale SEAL” . . . . (smile)
Meaner ‘n catshit, the both of you. Make a note of it.
😉
Fine. I have to do everything myself.
Video of Rudy Reyes:
What was the line? Even the dudes think he’s hot.
“after an inquiry, military chiefs had concluded the requirements for tank crew exceeded the physiological capabilities of most women.”
If it’s because the rounds are too heavy for them to load, it should be noted that the Merkava uses the exact same cannon and rounds as the Abrams. It should also be noted that it appears the IDF women are in far better shape than most women in the US Army. **closes hatch and prepares for incoming**
Breaking track probably ain’t no easy task either.
Or do we contract that out too nowadays?
If by “contract that out” you mean “make a private do it” then yes, we still contract that out.
The standing rule with my tank crew is if you did it in the 90’s, you don’t have to do it now, haha.
Naah, you jes’ need Tank Girl.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/440930619738189507/
Ex-PH2, Tank Girl is my hero now!
In 02 I volunteered for a 9 month training mission in Israel. I was assigned to a female Infantry Company (paperwork snafu since the female in the group was assigned to a male transportation company).
Yes, they’re females. From their knock-off Gucci sunglasses to the cute little things hanging from their cellphones. They are also some of the most disciplined and scary combatants I have ever worked with.
I can understand why they don’t want women in Armor units. It takes a great deal of explosive and sustained strength to do spot maintenance on tracked vehicles in combat. Typically, women are ill-suited to that kind of physicality.
Now, I’m not saying ALL women. I know a Marine who dusted males in PT that were fresh back from Boot before she even left for Boot. She is an exception. There are those kinds of women all over, but they are still a minority.
So, I understand why Israel is doing this. Rather than lower standards (which means tanks die), they are ensuring maximum survivability for all involved. The current administration could take a clue from this.
A year ago I was wandering around Jerusalem Old City on Friday – the Muslim holy day. The 3rd holiest place in all of Islam (Dome of the Rock) is on the Temple Mount right next to the Al Aksa mosque in the southeast corner of the Old City. The Old City is half-surrounded by Muslim neighborhoods so around noon, the local people go to the mosque and around 1pm they go home. On the day I was there a large group of Israeli police stood along the Via Delorosa near the Lion Gate. I saw one or two police women. Everyone was fit, heavily armed (everyone had a long gun of some sort), mostly wearing body armor, soft hats but helmets on the top of their packs, quiet and respectful. There were about 30 of them.
I saw IDF people all over Israel and they look comfortable in their role – Israelis are used to seeing soldiers with weapons. In my opinion they look thoroughly professional, vigilant, and well equipped but maybe a little more relaxed that US troops when out in the public – more comfortable in their role in public.
The news source Haaretz is a left news source – some say far left. Ynet is somewhat conservative.