Army Secretary on Major Golsteyn’s Silver Star
The Secretary of the Army, John McHugh has released a statement on his decision to take Major Mathew L. Golsteyn’s Silver Star from him, but it really doesn’t clarify anything. Some background from Stars & Stripes;
Maj. Mathew L. Golsteyn received the Silver Star in 2011 for valor in Afghanistan on Feb. 20, 2010, and was later approved for an upgrade to the even more prestigious Distinguished Service Cross.
[…]
Golsteyn was later investigated for an undisclosed violation of the military’s rules of engagement in combat — a violation related to the killing of a known enemy bombmaker, according to officials familiar with the case. The investigation closed in 2014 without Golsteyn’s being charged with a crime, but Army Secretary John McHugh made the rare decision to strip him of both awards anyway.
McHugh, responding to a letter from Representative Duncan Hunter, wrote;
“Every step in the process of investigating Major Golsteyn’s actions, and reviewing and subsequently revoking his valor awards has been thorough, objective and justified,” McHugh wrote in the February 26 letter, obtained by The Washington Post. “The Army’s investigation demonstrated that Major Golsteyn’s service during or at the time of the distinguished act, achievement or meritorious service was not honorable, which led to the revocation of the Distinguished Service Cross.”
OK, so they investigated, couldn’t find anything to charge Golsteyn with, so they decided to pull his awards and now they’re considering his removal from the service, all because “I said so”.
To his credit, Hunter isn’t accepting McHugh’s explanation, he responded to McHugh’s letter;
“The Administrative actions currently underway are a direct result of the Army’s inability to justify a criminal charge based on the evidence.”
I don’t, as a habit, get involved in these legal discussions because the Army usually has more information than me, but in this case, the Army seems to be withholding information from the public in order to justify their decision in this particular case.
Category: Big Army
I dont like this kind of shit. Didnt like it when Pete Rose was removed from the record book. Even if he turns out to be an asshole, there are some shitbirds that have their moment of glory.
This whole thing reeks of something that needed to be done but is not politically correct. I hope it turns out that they tried to surrender by he shot them anyway.
We just need a few more like minded people in charge.
For the record- Pete Rose’s records stand and were not removed. Rose has a lifetime ban on MLB that he agreed to and signed! Rose continued for years to lie and manipulate the public’s sympathy.
Really? You mean they let his achievements on the field stand even though he turned out to be a shitbag?
Wow, So he is still recognized as Rookie of the year for 1963? He still has all his medals and awards from his military service with Johnny Bench?
He turned out to be a shitbag and still has his awards. Hmmmmm
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/57787758.jpg
Don’t think Golsteyn agreed to the actions of the Army like Rose did with MLB.
Apple and a rotten orange comparison.
“Apple and a rotten orange comparison.”
True, but only because sports are meant to be fair and wars are meant to be won. PEDs in sports are bad, PEDs in a fighting unit FUCK IT IMO in the short term it’s very useful. Besides Pete Rose played baseball so fairness is an important issue. This Major killed a known bomb maker, so fairness should have never been an issue.
Then again I’m completely PRO torturing enemies that we have decent intel against, as long as we cross reference any information gathered against other detainees.
14 for the Hall!!!!!!
So? he killed a known bombmaker and that makes him a bad guy? WTF is wrong with the Army ..?? I don’t give a ratz ass HOW he killed the scum, he killed the bastard saving other troops!…GIVE HIM THE MEDALS AND RANK!
Golsteyn is being punished for publicly questioning DOD policies — the same thing a couple of our generals got fired for, if I remember correctly.
Even if the Major killed that bomb maker by feeding him to pigs or wild dogs, I would approve. A dead bomb maker is NEVER a bad thing.
Amen!
“A dead bomb maker is NEVER a bad thing.”
I tried to find the “I thought one less bomb maker in the world would be a good thing” clip from Casino Royale; no such luck, sadly.
I did, however, get to re-watch what’s possibly the greatest chase sequence in movie history looking for it.
I still forget to breathe watching the chase/fight scene on the big cranes. Geeezzz…..
The Bergdahl decision was pending.
The Bergdahl decision is pending.
The Bergdahl decision will remain pending.
Perspective: In Ferguson, MO on August 9, 2014 a police officer shot and killed a man who attacked him. Weeks later, the DOJ began an investigation into the police officer’s actions. The DOJ published an 86-page report, concluding that the shooting was justified. The investigation was extensive. “Federal authorities reviewed physical, ballistic, forensic, and crime scene evidence; medical reports and autopsy reports, including an independent autopsy performed by the United States Department of Defense Armed Forces Medical Examiner Service (“AFMES”); Wilson’s personnel records; audio and video recordings; and internet postings. FBI agents, St. Louis County Police Department (“SLCPD”) detectives, and federal prosecutors and prosecutors from the St. Louis County Prosecutor’s Office (“county prosecutors”) worked cooperatively to both independently and jointly interview more than 100 purported eyewitnesses and other individuals claiming to have relevant information. SLCPD detectives conducted an initial canvass of the area on the day of the shooting. FBI agents then independently canvassed more than 300 residences to locate and interview additional witnesses. Federal and local authorities collected cellular phone data, searched social media sites, and tracked down dozens of leads from community members and dedicated law enforcement email addresses and tip lines in an effort to investigate every possible source of information.”
All of that and a decision to boot. Bergdahl?
The shooting was not ruled “justified.”
He was just not charged with a crime for the shooting.
There is a huge gap between a “justified” shooting and one that has sufficient evidence for a murder conviction and the feds rarely charge if they do not think a conviction likely.
Wilson was not charged with a federal crime because the DoJ couldn’t meet the burden of proof for a civil rights violation. He was no-billed by the Missouri grand jury for the same reason, there was no crime committed by Ofc. Wilson. So, the death of Michael “Gentle Giant” Brown will be, or has been, ruled a Justifiable Homicide.
Again. Not true. There are many homicides that are not justified but nobody is charged. Even the primary suspect.
Whether someone is charged is based on what the prosecutor can feel he can PROVE. Even if they feel strongly that the cop did not use a justified level of force they have to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Like I said, there is a huge gap between what is justified and what can be proved to be criminal in a court of law.
Report conclusion: “Wilson did not act with the requisite criminal intent…” Requisite for what? Requisite for shooting Brown illegally. So, if Wilson did not shoot Brown accidentally (he did not), and Wilson did not commit a crime in shooting Brown (and he did not inasmuch as criminal intent was absent), then Wilson’s shooting of Brown was justified. To argue otherwise is to play games. I will allow that the report did not explicitly say that the shooting was justified. It merely eliminated every possibility that the shooting was unjustified. Read page 86 of the 86-page report and then try the semantics again.
Not that I can improve on what AC said, but I merely want to emphasize that you, Lars, are once again talking from the wishful thinking part of your brain instead of a place which relies upon facts.
Do you have any idea whatsoever what purpose a grand jury serves? Returning a no-bill generally means that there is not enough evidence to warrant further investigation of a potential crime having been committed much less enough to file charges, or even that no crime was committed (a primary reason most cop shootings are routinely referred to a grand jury whether anyone thinks there was a crime or not). Indeed, one could quite properly say that the determination by the grand jury was what normal, sane people would describe as a justifiable shooting by the officer.
I understand what a grand jury decides.
I also understand that the prosecutor is on record for having not wanted to prosecute this case and even but the defendant on the stand to defend himself in the grand jury proceeding. Which is highly irregular at best.
The Darren Wilson grand jury proceeding will be discussed in law schools for years to come but the overwhelming consenus is that it was not how a prosecutor is supposed handle a case.
None of this matters. What is done is done.
He and the city will lose the civil suit because it was not a justified shooting. The evidentiary standard in civil court is merely “preponderance of the evidence” and the family and jury will get more than enough evidence from subpoenaing the federal investigative records on the case as well as the investigative record of the internal communications of Ferguson PD.
I can tell you for certain that there is a huge difference between what a police officer is justified or authorized to do and what he can get away with. Many officers spend much of their time in the space between the limits of their authority and what would constitute a criminal act.
And I am not simply speaking out of my ass on this. I served as a state certified and academy trained police officer and saw officers operate beyond their authority frequently. Often intentionally and just as often because they just thought they could. Including a chief of police (who I heard later thankfully finally resigned after years of being a complete piece of shit).
Cops rarely get charged. And they face almost no personal liability for their actions.
I actually enjoy reading many of the things you post. I do not agree with you on many issues, but I enjoy the read.
I have been before a Grand Jury. It was determined by that Grand Jury that no criminal charges were justified in the death of that man. I have also been through the years of civil litigation for wrongful death. I refused to settle. I paid that mans family nothing.
You make statements in this case that you could not possibly have adequate knowledge to make. The contents of investigative records and internal communications may reveal exactly the opposite of what you claim. In my case, that is exactly what happened.
Additionally, the statement that many officers spend much of their time between the limit of their authority and a criminal act is over reaching. Maybe, the few you were exposed to did exactly that. I do not know one that does. That does not mean they don’t from time to time, I would say those moments are not common.
My personal experience with juries has been that they are far more perceptive than most give them credit. There is almost not a year that goes by when I do not have to defend something in court. People think they will get millions by doing so. I never settle a case, not ever. Most attorneys realize this during discovery and lack the resources to take on an entire firm of Attorneys.
Civil cases have little to do with what is right or wrong. They are most often decided by wherewithal.
I admit, even the results of a civil case will probably not be sufficient cause to conclude anything with certainty concerning the use of force since the case will likely be settled by the city before it ever reaches trial.
It will likely be settled even if Wilson is completely innocent and used completely legitimate force throughout the incident.
The amount of the settlement is about the only “evidence” we will have and even that may not be publicly released.
I do think the amount of “grey area” an officer operates within has a lot to do with the culture in the department he works.
I was in a largely mickey mouse law enforcement community (New Mexico) with huge amounts of variance in the quality of police officers and departments.
The Ferguson department appears to have had a pretty toxic culture with respect to their approach to the community they policed.
The characterization that they were primarily concerned with generating city revenue by preying on the community resonated with me since I saw similar law enforcement priorities in some New Mexico communities.
As a civilian I have seen it in other communities as well.
Black and White.
Get it.
Logical argument.
But “Grey” is where it generally occurs.
There is nothing grey about the Michael Brown shooting. Fucktard reached for the gun, struggled ensued, gun went off, and then fucktard ran. None of this would have been lethal since the Officer tried to get him to surrender after this, but fucktard decided to once again fight.
Anyone who tries to hurt/kill/rape an armed person DESERVES what’s coming. Not because the potential victim is armed, but because the potential victim has EVERY right to defend themselves.
I just like the pleasing aesthetics of this comment ziggurat we’re making. keep it going! all the way to the top!
Lars, what P.D. in what city and state did work as a LEO. Did you leave in good standing? Please answer , you Lars made the claim. Joe
2/17 Air Cav… The issue with Bergdahi is simple about the time the report findings get released I’d about the time. you know will hand out some pardons watch wait and see. You know who will deliver
BAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! !
Bad grammar tonight SORRY
Well stated.
You get a Silver Star, in the process of getting it upgraded to a DSC it gets revoked completely. He must’ve pissed someone off, this reminds me of when the SF CPT was going to get denied the MoH I believe because he said “fuck you” to some TOC guy or something along those lines..
This is true. Many, but not all, awards are unfortunately effected by a popularity contest.
It is unfortunate.
The Capt you where or may be talking about is a simple issue it has nothing to do with pissing of some TOC. That went way up to someone that had a issue with keeping his zipper-up instead of his pants down… As was said once the only MOH on my watch is someone who did…. Well I’ll keep me trap closed
I am unclear, did he deserve a MoH or not?
I think that is what should matter.
Not sure how anyone would have the time to do something inappropriate involving their penis while simultaneously committing an act of valor with conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity beyond the call of duty while engaged in combat with an enemy of the United States.
So whatever the incident with the zipper was about it seems to me is was a completely separate incident from the incident that should be under consideration for the award.
When is happy hour?
It’s always 5 O’clock somewhere!
Commissar. What I’m saying is simple read between the lines the Capt that Jordan rott is talking about had about the same issue as this Major. Politics
This is retribution plain and simple. It is wrong in every way. The Major did his duty in my opinion. The DOD doesn’t mind disclosing information about pissing on corpses but they want to withhold information about this incident. I don’t believe it. I believe it is because there is no relevant information to be released. No charges were found to bring against him. Meaning there was not sufficient evidence of any wrongdoing. Believe me, had there been, it would have been out in the press, loud and clear. Just payback. There is one bomb maker who hasn’t made an American killing bomb since February 2010. That’s a good thing in my book.
Golsteyn, McKone, and Gant….
Bing West said this about the three of them: We Americans admire our Green Berets because men like Gant, Golsteyn and McKone live among the tribes and challenge our Islamist enemies to do battle over basic ideals. Their seniors should mentor them and direct their enthusiastic efforts. Regrettably, the Special Forces command did not address the lack of leadership by the colonels who failed to guide junior leaders such as Gant and his comrades.
Eventually, the high command terminated Gant’s career and those of two other superb Special Forces officers who agreed with his values: Matt Golsteyn and Dan McKone.
How do you look at a young man today and tell him, “Yes, the Military is a great choice for you?” Every time I read these stories I am more and more conflicted on recommending any young person joining. These GO/FO’s are nearly all morally bankrupt, armchair quarterbacking, political apparatchiks.
That’s the trouble. I don’t. I can’t anymore.
Good comment.
Finally something on this board a I strongly agree with.
MK75Gunner. After the crap I’ve seen and been through I believe YES ! ! ! ! Would be my answer now with my daughter the answer would be NO ! ! ! !
I do not believe this was ROE issue!
Something was said and or done during the action, that some WHO was not there took offense to!
And in the end … This Warrior will be made whole.
I betcha a bag of fresh NYC bagels …. This is an action taken outside of the chain command by a person(s) who have never seen a fist fight let alone the brutality of war!
You don’t seem to understand what real leadership is like in today’s military. There are bigger more important things needed to be a leader in today’s military than just killing the enemy.
Nice!!
MCPO NYC a USN Ret… From my experience dealing with toxic comand environments in Iraq and Afghanistan BS.. There is some Funny crap going on in the background, I hope some sort of deal was not made with someone over thier for his head. Or it could be as simple as he spoke up about some BS. And now they are cutting his head off…
This is complete and utter bullshit. He is being burned for some reason they are not telling us. The guys that were with him when he earned the award know what he did, so I guess that’s all that matters. He saved lives that day. Fuck you Mchugh, you fucking neutered lackey.
Something or someone (command influence/payback?) is missing in this story.
He’s got a lawyer.
Next step would be to find an IG who just doesn’t give a shit and file an IG complaint against the SecArmy and everybody involved in this bullshit.
Apparently their there is no maximum pay grade for Blue Falcons. These four star clowns are just like high school kids on Facebook. Makes you think that they don’t have a war somewhere to win.
Once upon a time (before Desert Shield), I naively believed that if we got into a shooting war, it would clean out all of the political BS riff-raff. How wrong I was. 🙁
Politicians gonna politic, both in uniform and out. The further the leaders are from personal harm, the more it’s about them and not about the trigger-pullers. Someone once said that we could call a halt to a lot of this nonsense if the leaders had to fight. I’ve always thought that made a lot of sense.
Eden, it would appear that, much like mushrooms growing in warm manure, the political BS riff-raff has multiplied and grown.
I fully admit to being old and perhaps out of touch with current political thought, but I have never understood how service secretaries can be appointed without ever having served, let alone having experienced hostile fire. How can a man be publically punished without the cause being made public as well.
Unless it is later found that everyone lied about the circumstances for an award, it should stand. Period. Doesn’t matter if the awardee is a choir boy, a complete idiot, someone you don’t want within 40 miles of your family, or anything else. Either the award was earned or it was not. How much any of us might like the awardee is irrelevant. If the awardee later commits multiple felonies and is detained for life, it doesn’t matter.
All awards for valor are given for actions during a slice of time in a particular place under very specific circumstances, and nothing else. Investigate thoroughly prior to issuing it. This, seriously, is not a difficult concept.
Besides all that, if there is supposed to be a lesson learned from this, they need to give us a few more details. All I see is pettiness and most likely vindictiveness.
Charge on, Duncan Hunter! You sound a great deal like your father, a man for whom I have a great deal of respect.
Exactly. Many of our national heroes had black marks on their records before and sometimes after their heroic actions.
You are recognizing the act of heroism, duty, and sacrifice. Heroes are not just eagles scouts and captain Americas. Assholes and occasionally even apparent shitbags are capable of monumental acts of valor when the moment calls.
Although, I am a little uncomfortable that Allen West is lobbying for Golesteyn. It makes me uncomfortable to be in agreement with that idiot.
Although I think he is just using Golesteyn and political ammunition.
“It makes me uncomfortable to be in agreement with that idiot.”
Hey Lars, go fuck yourself. West vs you? What have you done? I know what West has done.
Give me a break. The guy was a mediocre officer that parlayed a minor war crime into a single two year congressional term.
He is not accomplished. He is a narcissistic delusional wingnut. Unfortunately, in our current political landscape that makes him a perfect candidate for minor celebrity status in the conservative campaign machine.
He is more of an example with what is wrong with American politics today than he is an example of an accomplished American.
He is no role model. He is a cautionary tale concerning the kind of politics we get when a nation loses its way. Even the fact the he participated in the most expensive congressional campaign in history is an example of what is wrong with our political process.
Butthurt Libtard detected.
I’m sorry Mr. WEST beat you up, kicked your dog, and stole your girlfriend.
Actually I’m not. You probably deserved much worse.
There is an extremely strong correlation between a person using the term “libtard” and their being a fucking dipshit.
I guarantee the most intelligent thing you do on any given day is move your dick out of the way of your zipper. On the second try, every time.
Lars you are the definition of FUCKING LIBTARD.
And a racist.
There are no details … hmmm
I wonder if Golsteyn signed a confidentiality agreement and accepted the award revocation in exchange for something – like no criminal charges? Defending against a criminal charge costs a lot of money – no two ways about that.
Getting into a pissing match with the Sec Army has to be bad for one’s career. If Golsteyn’s career is over, why not release the details and take McHugh to the wall?
BTW, I agree “earned” means “earned”, shitbird or not.
Revoking an award needs to be explained. Secretary McHugh, it is your turn to talk.
“… a violation related to the killing of a known enemy bombmaker, according to officials familiar with the case.”
Imo, everyone in the DoD involved in this political bullshit should be arrested and tried for direct aid and comfort to an enemy while at war.
Pissing and moaning about how a murderous jihadiscum was killed? That kind of shit should lead directly to a public curb stomp.
This appears to be the military equivalent of office politics and not much else. Golsteyn didn’t get ‘permission’ to do his job the way it should be done, so he’s a ‘bad egg’.
Well, if you’re looking for a scapegoat or someone who doesn’t ‘toe the line’, the guy who follows instinct instead of ridiculous written rules becomes a target.
Geez, if I acted as stupid as these brass-bearing idiots in charge do, I’d never have survived 30 years in Chicago, the land of gang-and-bang, coming home from work late at night or waiting at the bus stop at 6AM to just get the f#@%k to work.
But then, I’m not stupid. They are. So be it. God help us if we actually have a shooting war.
“This appears to be the military equivalent of office politics and not much else. ”
Very similar to the VA as they screw Vets to cover their incompetent asses.
Even Buffalo Bill had his MOH revoked until 1989, but that diminish what he did to earn it (although not a big deal by today’s standards).
I suspect in years to come, under a less political environment, the Major will receive what he has rightfully earned.
Should be “didn’t” diminish…
This guy needs to be looked into. He had a long history of insubordination, disrespect for authority, alcohol abuse, was hospitalized several times for alcohol poisoning, single handedly killed 200 people, some of which were unarmed, disobeyed orders, was confined to the brig on several occasions, and it seems he got away with keeping all of his awards.
Among them are: Medal of Honor, Medal of Honor(2nd award), Distinguished Service Cross, Navy Cross, Silver Star, and the Croix de Guerre.
It is about time for these awards to be rescinded. Valor in the face of direct enemy fire is no justification for overlooking his misconduct.
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/daly.html
“This guy…”
Are you referring to Pappy Boyington? No saint by any means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hooper_%28Medal_of_Honor%29
Joe Hooper
Well played, Sir….
CAW CAW!
Blue falcon big army is here.
This literally makes me ill. Maybe it can get reversed if the MAJ comes out as a tranny….
And Big Army sent CID to dumpster dive and interview CPT Swenson. Sounds like a ‘fishing expedition’.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/26/exclusive-army-spied-on-hero-over-amazon-review.html