Yeah, we get it, Washington Post; you hate the military
Chock Block sends us a link to the latest hit piece in the Washington Post by some fellow named Bill Webster about the personnel costs of maintaining an effective fighting force. Of course, he compares the job to the civilian sector;
A job in the military, the military in which I served, doesn’t compare to the civilian sector. What Mr. Webster doesn’t understand is that the Department of Defense needs to attract the best and brightest to a job that is more arduous and more time consuming than any job in the private sector. I suspect that Mr. Webster is a little bit jealous that he didn’t plan for his future like people in the military have done. We paid with our youth, our lives and our health for our comfortable retirement, while Mr. Webster was drinking himself through college – put a price tag on that.
Training for war is as hazardous as the war itself, military operations begin long before they appear in a journalist’s camera lens. If this country needs well-trained educated people to operate the tools of victory, they need to pay for it and there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel for folks who make a career of the military – the backbone of a professional fighting force is careerism. The troops don’t have the option of taking their skills elsewhere for higher pay when they’re combat arms – there’s no compensation package to compete for their skills. There is little they can do with those skills when they leave the military.
I’ll bet Mr. Webster can count on one hand the number of times that he was headed to work at 4 AM and his workday lasted for days at a time after that, often without sleep. I wonder how many times he got a call at 1 AM to come to work prepared to fight off the Soviet hordes. And there was no overtime pay involved – it was a call to arms. That training was what kicked Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait in 100 hours, it was what kicked Hussein out of Baghdad in 2003. That kind of performance, expertise and dedication costs money.
I absolutely dare Mr. Webster and the Washington Post to do the same comparison and tax payer cost analysis on welfare and Medicaid.
Category: Military issues, Veterans Issues
He left out the biggest benefit that seperates military compensation from civilians: the death gratuity that next of kin receives, the right to burial in a national cemetary and the free headstone.
Since he doesn’t acknowledge those “benefits” he can go suck the sweat out of a fat baby’s ass
Just for common knowledge, a “headstone” for a veteran will only be rendered when said veteran is interred in a “certified” cemetery.
If you are the family member of a veteran, trying to get a headstone with a “family cemetery”, good luck. You have to have the cemetery certified, listed, set aside, etc…
Do not ALL our veterans deserve recognition
wherever they are laid to rest? Have to have a personal cemetery to have a veteran headstone?
I sent this to Jonn, Maybe it is a rebuttal in a way…
The Tragedy of the American Military
The American public and its political leadership will do anything for the military except take it seriously.
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/12/the-tragedy-of-the-american-military/383516/
I’ve been seeing that article make the rounds of FB. Fantastic read!
Go read CDR Salamander’s response to it. Even better
+1!
I read both. CDR Salamander’s “rebuttal” missed the point in several places and glossed over some valid points made in others.
Both are worth reading, though.
Thanks for that, hopefully Fallows will accept the good CDR’s invitation to come on “midrats” and talk things over.
I didn’t see that and I have to bounce (leave). Can you list a link for later reading>
CDR Salamander’s “rebuttal”
Thanks
Another festering boil on the ass of humanity.
^^^ THIS ^^^
I feel that these asshats will not be placated until we serve for free.
And yet, not one mention of the burgeoning ranks on welfare, foodstamps, WIC, 0bamacare, medicaid, and other forms of government subsidies. Expenditures which are not expressly laid out in the Constitution.
Oh, and BTW, the article is over a year old…
While it is an old article, it is still the prevailing mindset of many. I another article earlier today – phrases like DOD rapid-response plan and cutting personal for weapons/research are a concern.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/pay/2014/12/30/dod-prepares-for-compensation-report/21008055/
Webster clearly gets his ideas from the crappy B-movies from the 80s (that get appropriately eviscerated for their utter stupidity by the Mystery Science Theater 3000 crew) that portray the military as a club for inept, trigger-happy meatheads who get in the way of the peaceful, gun-abhorring hippy “heroes” (whose solutions, as explained in detail by the MST3K commentary, are even dumber than their portrayal of the military, but work because the movie is a vehicle for the fantasy of a washed-up, self-righteous hippy “filmmaker” of the 80s who wanted to believe that Reagan was Satan Incarnate).
Poor little Webster just wants to be right about that so badly that he advocates crap like this to make his self-righteous fantasy a reality. He’s just in the wrong decade. And the wrong country.
Myster Science Theater is still around?
This is what I get for not having a TV. This, and football, and men in tight pants night.
Myster Science Theater is still around?
http://www.rifftrax.com/
Your typical E-4 (the most prevalent rank in the military) earns $2427/month. That equates to $80.90/day. If you account for all the work they do, it’s about a 12 hour day. So, the average specialist is making less than the Federal Minimum Wage ($7.25/hour). And this is just for normal work.
Deployed, that same Specialist earns $2652. That equates to $88.40/day. Since, at a minimum, you pull a 16 hour day, you are making $5.53/hour.
These are the people that put their lives on the line so burger flippers can complain that they don’t earn $15/hour for all their hard word.
Hell, even “middle management” E-6’s earn about $10/hour ($8.15/hour in combat) and they work far more than the normal 12 (16 in combat) of the troopies.
But us bums didn’t have to pay for our room and board! That cot under the sock-drying line in the GP Medium ain’t free, my friend…and bulk MREs probably run the government a solid $5-$6/meal – we got that, and it was TAX FREE, too!
The shame I feel sometimes for my history of free-loading…
I do NOT know what you guys are griping about.
My pay in 1969 as a PH2 over 2 years was a generous $313.80. When I went over 3 years, I got $328.50.
Since I lived offbase, I got BAQ and COMRATS, and that brought my take home pay to a whopping $295++!
My work hours were from 07:00 to 15:00, except on the days when my duty section was up (every 6th day), when it stretched from 07:00 to 24:00 and if it was the weekend, the full 24-hours.
I do NOT understand what you all are bitching about.
To be clear, BAQ was $70.20/month and COMRATS $1.39/day, totaling $111.90.
Who’s bitching? Just pointing to the absurdity of folks whining about how rich we’re getting on Uncle Sam’s back.
Sorry, I forgot to put /sarc in there. My bad.
What was it like riding with Roosevelt’s Rough Riders anyway?
You are forgetting the married E-4 who, if he lives off post, is given BAQ.
For a married E-4 living at Ft Drum, who is smart and puts away money for retirement in their TSP (let’s say 5%), after taxes they are going to be bringing home between 3400 and 3900 (depending on state home of record and number of dependents).
I suppose I should feel guilt over drawing Army retirement pay, 60% disabled pay from the VA, and becoming one of those evil double dipping government contractors.
Nah.
Splendid, research but it lacks feeling. I’ll use myself as a example.
Salary(E4)- 18,000 after taxes in garrison
Housing allowance- free, but i’m so guilty about it I don’t run my heater even when it’s freezing cold outside, oh no it doesn’t work that’s right.
Food allowance- free. Oh yes the finest leftovers combinations money can buy available in the DFAC 3x a day
Healthcare- Also Free! So good that when I went to the Dr. in November, they referred me to physical therapy, who referred me back to the Dr who referred me back to physical therapy…in January. In the meantime I subsist on the magic cure Motrin.
Commissaries/PX- Tax free regular priced goods. How wall street.
Defense schools- Do they mean advanced MOS training? Cause some is free and some my unit pays for.
Child Care- No kids.
Education- GI BIll. I paid 1,200 for it even though I already have a degree, but aren’t these the same people saying that everyone should go to college?
Sure the military has a large budget, but don’t blame me. Let’s start with the obvious like uniform changes and wonder weapons that are a boondoggle. All the money were said to be spending on the latest and greatest gear and all I see is a supply cage full of the same old promask, first aid kit, and chem-lights.
I don’t know what makes these newsy morons think the military is even remotely overpaid.
If I had returned to the Navy in 2001, my pay for E-5 over 4 years was $1701.00 before taxes. If I lived in the barracks, I might get COMRATS, but not BAQ. Discounting COMRATS, that comes to $20,421 per year before taxes.
I was in fact, making $42,500 per year in a civilian job. My employer paid 50% of my health and dental insurance and I paid the other 50%, plus the co-pay when I used those services, usually about $10 to $20. I also had a 401K account that was growing nicely, because my employer matched my contributions by 50% of what I paid in. Any upgrades in job-related training were provided by my employer and if I took classes related to my job, I got my tuition reimbursed once the class was finished. Occasionally, there was overtime, and we could choose comp time off or OT pay. We also got a Christmas bonus of $1500 in January after the books for the fiscal year were closed.
Why would I leave a cushy job like that for a job that demanded more hours out of me for less pay with fewer benefits, but a lot of good times, just to listen to a lot of griping about my overpaid status from ignorant civilians who had never put in one hour of their lives in the service of their country?
Yep – I interrupted a career to serve, right as I was hitting my earnings stride. Now, I’m not about to complain about having a great career and doing well, but it’s funny to hear how overpaid I was as an E5 when every day I spent in Iraq cost me $50 net – that’s all-in, end-of-the-month net money, with tax-free/BAH/Family Sep/Hazard Pay/Hardship all thrown in the mix.
(Note to others: never calculate that figure while you’re still overseas – you don’t want to know)
This always reminds me of an event that happened to me after Desert Storm. We had been broken into small groups 20-30 guys. We then went into a secured area and had our kit inspected one final time (to make sure we didn’t have any trophies, weapons, etc).At the exit of this area there were a dozen reporters jockeying for a story.
An NCO from the Public Affairs office handed out cards with talking points on them in case we were ambushed by some media types. Being the only officer in my group I read the talking points carefully.
As soon as I walked thru the exit a camera and microphone was pushed into my face. Some young lady excitedly asked me “Sir, are you glad to be going home?”
I looked at her and then at my talking point card. It was certainly not a question I was prepared for.
So, I looked right into the camera and said…
“Ma’am, I am an Infantryman, my ass hasn’t touched porcelain in 6 months. So, yeah I’m glad.”
Most people who visit here can in some way relate to that. Mr. Webster could not possibly fathom the thought of that.
Something tells me that Webster would freak at the thought of wiping his ass with toilet paper rather than spraying water up his keister from a gold-plated bedet (is that how you spell it? You know, the ass-washer fountain that elitists use). Just showing him a picture of a jack shack, pit shitter, or [gasp] the old “squat & hover over a hole you just dug” would most likely give his tiny little brain a stroke.
If he works at the Washington Post, he’s probably got some brand new college grad intern who’s tongue he’s using as a Bidet.
Just like he did years before to “learn” what “true” journalism really is….
I wonder if Bill Webster wrote this while having a martini at happy hour down on the Waterfront?
Turd.
And he’s probably meeting up some liberal Congressman at that happy hour too.
Well duh. True facts, but also no real context given given for the numbers.
Of course our cost of retired pay is increasing compaired to what we are paying current members. Were still paying the retired pay on the military of 2 million people we had during the Cold War.
Excuse us for living.
When you cut out the bottom of the pyramid, these types of statistical anomolies happen.
Never mind the additional personnel costs that are part of the war (increased health care cost, combat zone tax breaks, the whole raft of incentive pays required to maintain force levels, having over 100K extra personnel on the active rolls at any time).
Its not a mystery that they use 2001 as a starting point also.
If they want a real cost comparison, look at what the tax payer had to pay the IC civilian personnel to serve. Military pay is a bargain.
For those to young to know…
2001 is the starting point for most comparisons because that’s when the automatic increase of inflation +1% started to kick in to compensate for the gap in wages that occurred during the 90’s. If the chart is run back to 1990, the growth in private sector and military pay is very close if not identical.
True. But if the chart is run back to 1968 – or even just back to 1980 – the military looks even better regarding percentage wage gains than it does from 2001 to present. The late 1960s and early VOLAR-era pay raises were quite large ones, percentage-wise; ditto those in the early 1980s. And the cumulative effect is to compound earlier gains.
My point here is that the time frame of reference matters greatly, and can be chosen to support either point of view. You are correct in observing that he deliberately chose one to his advantage – but he actually didn’t choose the most advantageous one for his case.
The man does have one point, though. Soldiers today are relatively well-compensated compared to draftee days; that’s been true since the early 1970s. What he doesn’t acknowledge is the fact that that is by design. That higher pay is required to maintain a professional, volunteer force.
Yeah, the phallus-brained little cream puff of a candy-assed, twinkle-toed glitter-farting tinsel mouse of a retarded Sparkle pony doesn’t bother to note what’s wasted on politicians’ permanent health care and pensions either, let alone the perks and luxuries they entitle themselves to along with welfare handouts to illegal aliens and other things. i wonder if the little snotrag-sniffing douchenozzle just wrote his propaganda piece in a hurry so he could make it to his favorite tranny bar in DuPont circle wearing his Dorothy costume in anticipation of a rendezvous with “soiled spandex” Wickre?
The amount of money we’ve spent on Congressional members’ pensions, staffs, benefits, etc., is atrocious.
They should all have term limits (12 years MAX) and once they finish their time in office, they go back to where they came from without a pension, no medical benefits, no retirement package, etc. They have to go back and get a “real” job again.
I could get extreme with that and say anyone with a political science degree should be banned from stepping foot in DC or talking to any elected official, and/or no family getting lobbyist jobs, no working with lobby groups after they are out of office, etc. But that’s just the extreme side of it.
Douchebags like this are the reason politicians continue to live like Lords and Barons in DC, do what they want, and not take flak for anything because Webster is attacking the military instead of whoever’s balls he is licking this week.
I drank my way through online college courses as an E-1 through E-5 and thanks to the Army (only half kidding there), I kept on drinking through innumerable failed personal relationships, multiple PCS’s, three deployments, two ulcers, foot surgery, knee surgery, back surgery and a medical separation. The doc says I have the joints of a 70 year old (I’m 33). Yet I consider myself lucky compared to some folks I know with the same time in service who are far worse off. Even luckier still than those who gave their last full measure.
After separation, I feel lucky to have landed a job in Information Technology. Only took 19 months of unemployment and thousands of dollars in CompTIA/MS/Cisco coursework and certification tests to get it. Apparently “did not lose any Soldiers or equipment to enemy fire through 67 outside the wire missions” isn’t an attractive resume bullet to an IT hiring manager. Who knew?
Meanwhile, our civilian peers are already making six figures with a five figure coke habit, working on C-level career number two, mistress number three, and running tough mudders and marathons into their mid-40’s without so much as having their knees scoped.
So tell me again, Mr. Webster, about how we’re over-compensated.
I’m guessing that Bill wouldn’t have made it a week as a submarine non-qual once the hatches were secured. Almost three months of no sun and 20 hour days, seven days a week, all while making that sweet E4 pay. When I ETS’d after my first 6 year enlistment, I didn’t have medical, dental, or a pay check. I did have a few college credits and VEAP, which required that I still had to work two jobs and take out a few small loans to cover college expenses.