Feds resent vets’ hiring preferences
Chief Tango sends us a link to a Washington Post article about how federal employees are beginning to resent the President’s hiring preferences for veterans;
With veterans moving to the head of the hiring queue in the biggest numbers in a generation, there’s growing bitterness on both sides, according to dozens of interviews with federal employees.
Those who did not serve in the military bristle at times at the preferential hiring of veterans and accuse them of a blind deference to authority. The veterans chafe at what they say is a condescending view of their skills and experience and accuse many non-veterans of lacking a work ethic and sense of mission.
This might be news to some, but not for anyone who has been in the Federal workforce. As you probably know, I just retired from a Federal job earlier this year, and nearly every day I experienced that sort of resentment. I was told that I was crazy just because I was a veteran. Other employees didn’t mind telling me that they resented the 15-point hiring preference for vets because they had lost opportunities to vets. Even though we had more management experience than our peers, we were prevented from advancement to positions of supervision. Why? Well this paragraph in the Post article might explain it;
“You’re getting a very conservative worker that’s very narrow-minded,” said Bob O’Brien, a technology specialist for the Office of Personnel Management. About 90 of the 100 computer experts in his office in suburban Maryland are veterans, he said.
“In meetings, you can’t question anything,” O’Brien complained. The veterans’ attitude to their supervisors, he said, is: “You’re my boss. You could be a complete lunatic, but I won’t question you.”
Yeah, well, for anyone with military experience, sitting through those painful meetings would make you pull your hair out. Employees without military experience question everything – even the use of “and” and “is”. If my supervisor told me to do something I thought was stupid, instead of arguing in meetings for hours, I’d find a way around the stupid parts, quietly, at my desk, using my brain thingie. But non-veterans seem to like wasting their time complaining about stuff. Everything. Every. Single. Thing.
I remember endless meetings about the color of the new carpet in the office. I remember the complaints when we got new chairs. There was nearly a revolt when we were told that we were going to have to use the online version of our own publication instead of the paper copies that cost the taxpayers millions of dollars every year. The Old Schoolers were even resistant to a liberal telework schedule – when I left there were still three people in my section (of eight) who refused to draw a laptop computer and get on the telework pony. I guess they liked their morning commute through downtown DC every day.
But Laura Barmby was pleasantly surprised when she ran a training session this summer for the Commerce Department that included veterans. In a role-playing exercise, the eight veterans banded together in reaction to a natural disaster, devising a novel response to offer emergency services to the public.
I moved to West Virginia to be part of the Contingency of Operations Program that was created after 9-11-01. Our job at the remote location was, of course, to continue operations in the event that DC was blowed up. All three members of that team here had been veterans, because we had no problem being on a call-list and being available always to the office, whereas the non-veterans were much more resistant to the concept. And we had little problem getting the Top Secret Clearances required for the job.
I feel better that much of the Federal work force is veterans, I feel better about the country.
Category: Veterans Issues
If they want the vet preference, all they need to is sign up. Not that hard.
Well, yeah, it is a little hard. I was turned down the first time I tried to sign up as an enlisted man. It wasn’t until I went to medical school and finished my residency that the Army would take me.
The days of the military taking just anybody off the streets are pretty much over. It was pretty much over when I went in in the late 80s. I suspect that this is even more true today, what with the draw down and the new emphasis on politically-correct personnel decisions.
Experiencing it every freaking day. What we need is a training program even for Junior Enlisted getting out to get them into the government work force, and make it run more like separate Infantry Brigades, rather than the idiotic mess decades of pencil pushing “just doing their time til they can retire” asswipes we have running the show in many places.
So stop your whining Mr O’Brien…roll up your sleeves and get to work like the Veterans are, and do your damned job!
7 out of the 10 richest counties in the country are D.C. suburbs. Far too many Federal workers have grown fat and lazy extorting exorbitant salaries from the taxpayer. Now, they are seeing vets, who understand the concepts of accountability and responsibility, move into the Fed workforce. It scares them and rightly so.
Tell them to complain to Congress. Federal law, not presidential proclamation, is the legal source of veteran’s preference in Federal hiring.
Which is strange to me. With Obama in the white house right now, you’d really think they would blame Congress for this one.
Or maybe this is another thing they’re blaming on Bush, 6 years after he left office…
As I understand it, the current Administration did make a few regulatory changes/exceptions in the 2010 time frame that made hiring vets easier. But veterans preference for hiring in Federal employment is authorized by Federal law, not due to discretionary Federal regulation or Executive Order.
Lordie, these people whine a lot. And it’s so adorable how they paint us with that broad brush. Hope they stretch properly first.
Funny, I’ve never used my veteran’s preference points, having never been a government employee at any level since I left the service.
Yet people see that experience on my resume and apparently I possess those critical thinking skills they claim I don’t have, because I’ve been offered a job at every place I’ve applied over the last 15-16 years.
Granted, it was only four, and I turned down one. Strangely enough, it was a job at TVA, and I realized it would suck when I was dealing with who was probably the most rigid, unimaginative, “get out of my rice bowl” HR hack in the history of compensated employment. A few weeks later I got a call from who would have been my manager, asking me if I was still interested. I managed to keep it professional, at least until I hung up.
“You’re getting a very conservative worker that’s very narrow-minded,” said Bob O’Brien, a technology specialist for the Office of Personnel Management.
I’d like to point out that apparently, Bob thinks it’s ok to complain that people who are “conservative” are a problem for him to work with. Openly. And put his name to it. The fact that he feels completely comfortable openly admitting that he thinks he should be able to discriminate against someone based upon their political preferences is REALLY troubling to me.
I noticed that. And it’s as though it doesn’t bother them to be openly bigoted.
You two gentlemen just broke the code.
O’Brien’s underlying problem IMO appears to be that he’s intolerant and narrow-minded vice the fact that he occasionally has to work with vets.
Hondo:
I suspect O’Brien’s real underlying problem is that he didn’t get his ass kicked often enough while growing up.
Maybe he did get his butt kicked by a couple of vets, Grimmy – and has been pissed ever since. Or maybe he’s just an intolerant or biased fool.
Dunno, and don’t care. Whatever the reason, that attitude is IMO both stupid and objectionable.
Currently work for the federal government but still work in military training so I have not had to deal with resentful civilians. My immediate response to their resenting me using a veterans preference that I earned would be, GFY.
My job has entailed dealing with government civilians who have not ever served. Their mindset and decision making were all self serving instead of focused on the best way to accomplish the mission. Very far from what I have been used to. If I ever develop that kind of attitude, I am hoping that one of my veteran co-workers will put me out of my misery.
Hopefully your vet co-workers would be correcting you before you got that bad.
More whining, huh? Yes, well, these people should have to spend some time in the private sector, like I did for 32 years after I left the Navy.
The private sector expects results. Okay, that’s a nod to ‘Ghostbusters’, but it’s true. Don’t perform, goof off, complain all the time about nothing (carpet color? Really?), resent having to adapt to change and before too long, you won’t have a job.
I would have given my eye teeth to be able to telecommute. The wear and tear on my car would have been reduced to zero, no parking fees, no wondering how far I can stretch a tankful over a week’s commute, and then when I switched to commuting by rail, plus a walk to the office, no more wondering if someone would delay the train home by jumping in front of it or if a bad storm would knock trees across the rails.
These whining children, so afraid of change that they get all butt-hurt about it, and so resentful of people who actually know how to work efficiently, need some lessons in humility. I hope they get them some day.
See it here too and I work for the DoD. You’d think it would be different. Here you’d think vets would crawling out of the woodwork.
Interestig that an OPM guy said that about promotions and supervisory positions. I don’t want to think it happens but it sure would explain a few things.
I also worked for the federal gov for a few years, quite a few. when I first started I immediately felt resentments and jealousy when some one mentioned to an non veteran old timer ( an overweight out of shape pos) that he was now first on the lay off list. I also felt those same resentments and jealousies when I went to my fifth hs reunion haven’t been to one since but I have also since moved across the country. I believe it is a type of jealousy by those who have never served
Every ten years, I got employment with the Census Bureau. My job was always the same: Training Data Entry Operators at the regional office, and supervising their work flow.
Now, I used my veteran’s preference points to get these jobs, and in every single case, my boss was resentful of my getting a position using that preference.
The first time was the 1990 Census. My Boss not only didn’t like me because I was a veteran, but she somehow found out my political affiliation (which wasn’t hers). I make it a point to never offer that info at any job unless directly asked by someone, and no one had asked me. But I digress.
This particular woman was a big Clinton supporter, and made certain that everyone knew she was also involved with the Clinton campaign in Maine, and even had flyers, keychains, buttons, etc, available on her desk. When I pointed out that this was breaking the law, she simply took me aside and told me that if I wanted to keep working there that I’d shut up and keep to myself.
So I shut up. I could have reported her, but I needed the work and it was quite apparent that all the other managers above me were all on the Clinton team.
But to backtrack, I didn’t know a thing about the data entry software they were using, or even how the department was set up, but I reported to work, sat myself down with the manuals and learned it all. I asked questions, and put my military skills to work. Being a former LPO and an E-6, I had some experience running a small department at the ground level, and much to the chagrin of my direct superiors, I always got high evaluations, and got rehired every time I applied.
Veterans seem to make good employees because they know how to show up on time, prepared, and to see the job though. We still, it seems to me, have a sense of personal responsibility that a lot of non-veterans appear to lack.
After my retirement from the US Army, I worked for the USDA as a biologist for 8 years. My project manager was a 30 something female that was an affirmative action hire and possessed zero skills in the field. She hated the veterans that worked for her. You are so right about how the vets found a way around the stupid parts of the way she managed both people and projects. When I was offered a buyout in 2011 I took it sight unseen.
On the fence on this one.
There are a lot of lazy ass government-civilian employees.
That being said, I have seen some marginal and dirtbag Vets get in the door based on Vet preference.
Think VA.
Same here, to an extent. I don’t have any real problem with veteran’s preference in hiring. Congress determined it should be there, so it is. If Congress wants to change that, it’s within Congress’ power to do so.
However, I also think I know of at least one clear case where veteran’s preference was used as little more than a cover for hiring a preselected individual. And that’s crap, too.
VA is about 30% veteran employee, and 70% never served. It’s no wonder we get such crappy service…
Gee. RPR – I guess that means Vets are only statistically OVER-REPRESENTED at the VA by about a factor of 3 when compared to the entire US civilian labor force.
In 2010, the US civilian labor force was around 153.9 million. In that year, there were around 15.5 million vets in the same age category (16-64).
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0587.xls
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0521.xls
Today, only about 10% of the US civilian labor force are vets.
Well you guys can sit around and badmouth civilians that never served all you want to. I can do it to. But hopefully, you interacted with someone like me at one stage or another… someone who had little tolerance for BS and was mission focused. Occasionally I list ads on Craigslist for help wanted. Every ad includes the phrase “strong veteran preference”. If I could hire 6 Privates like the ones I worked with over in Astan, I could take over the world. BTW, the color of my carpet is “dirt”, but it has some “earth” overtones.
We can all say we’ve worked with some great civilians in our time, even great federal civilians.
In Afghanistan I worked with a USDA contractor named Don. Great guy, was in his 50s but walked up and down hills like any 20 year old Infantryman. We got along great, worked hard and did our best to get things done in our AoR.
Even today I work with some hard working civilians.
Oh and the carpet in my office is dark blue, but with dirt n’ grime highlights all over. My carpet hasn’t been replaced in probably 20 years.
I’m retired Army and work for the DoD. We have, maybe, a handful of non-prior service folks working in the Directorate, and the ones I can think of are females married to currently serving or retired GIs.
The environment here is entreprenurial, organized, and collegial. Nobody carried their rank with them into the GS, but they damn sure carried their skills and abilities. We have everything from medically-retired former E-4s up to retired O-6s on staff, mostly Army and a sprinkling of USAF and Navy.
I hear stories from retired friends in other places, in particular one of the tenant units here on our post, where they have been “counseled” by non-prior service (usually PhDs) on not being so “pushy” to get things done, etc. Not here.
I guess we are anomalies–reasonably gruntled government employees in a high-performing directorate.
TrapperFrank threw out an interesting parallel – Affirmative Action.
I can’t help but wonder how many of these “affirmative action” hires are also badmouthing the vet preference? I suppose it’s okay when some sort of preference helps YOU get a job, but it’s not right when it helps others.
I worked for a federal agency for several after I got out of the Army. It was okay to an extend then came interaction time with fellow employees and being a “crazy vet” as one put it, simply gave me more incentive to find employment in the private market.
And these are the same people who want Federal Workforce Unions. Because, you know, it still takes one of them to shoot their supervisor before they get a bad evaluation. I know a civilian who works in an Army unit in Los Angeles who has been showing up for work for about 5 years for 5 or less hours a day, but still gets paid for 8. Everyone knows, but no one does anything about it because she’s been in the system for 30+ years and they think she can’t be fired. (For committing time card Fraud)
I was in the VA one time seeing my doc for something and talking to her nurse about my deployments and why I’m so beat up and broken. She (a nurse in the fricken VA) tells me, “I just don’t understand why anyone would want to do that.” At first I was a bit speechless, but when I was able to say something, I didn’t even bother. No matter what I said, she would never get it. This is the same thing, they will never understand and many don’t want to.
I have met plenty of “liberal-minded” service members. So frankly, I think Bobby O’Brien should be fired for discriminatory comments. However, he probably has an O’Bama poster in his office, which means he knows he’ll never be fired for anything. Until the next President comes in and is a Republican of course.
Being a fed worker too- I’ve told the Union folks to leave me be- I have too many hands in my work pot to deal with your BS.
the joy of a secured facility- “get out: you’re not authorized to be here”
Stop Bragging, its guys like you that make me hate my office with no window and a door everyone walks into… 😉
Well, as a non-veteran myself, I can draw on my own experience to come up with reasons why veterans are desirable in my field, based on having worked for, with, and above quite a few.
Veterans already understand chain-of-command. Unlike some punks who come in, I don’t have to tell them that it’s “the chain I beat you with until you figure out who’s in command.” They know the difference between blind obedience (bad) and recognizing leader’s intent while coming up with the best way to get it done (good).
Veterans are easier to train in general. They tend to be more attentive and more willing to study and practice. They ask intelligent questions, unlike some knuckleheads I’ve dealt with who want me to explain why the fucking sky is blue.
Veterans have learned the value of work ethic. They are rarely lazy. They will often look for more efficient ways to get a job done (innovation!) and are not inclined to half-ass it. They also know that sometimes you just need to embrace the suck.
Veterans don’t need to be told to take care of their equipment. They know that their PPE, tools, engine, etc. all need to be kept fire-ready, and don’t need to have it explained to them like children.
Having already been through Basic Training and in some cases combat, veterans are accustomed to high-stress situations and are unlikely to vapor-lock on an incident. They tend to keep their heads on straight and not panic.
Veterans know how to train subordinates in both classroom and manipulative settings. Contrary to the stereotype, they generally yell and swear less than others when conducting training. They have a better idea of when yelling and swearing is called for (sometimes it is) and when it’s not.
Of course being a veteran doesn’t automatically make somebody a good firefghter, but it does give them an excellent foundation to build upon. Of all the vets I have worked with, one was a piece of shit. The rest have worked out exceptionally well.
My enlistment ended in 1968, tested and was hired by a city fire department in 1969, at that time their were a number of WW2 and Korea vets plus some no vets, the best training I received was of course the vets. in the 70’s most of the new hires were vets, in the 80’s most had no military background, the vets took to the job with no problem, how to wear and keep clean your uniform and equipment, the non vets not so much. As a LT in the fire department I taught a recruit academy in 85, we had about 30 recruits some vets some not, one who was a retired vet in his 40’s who out proformed the much younger ones. One time in the 70’s I showed up for my shift which started at 0700 about an hour early, we were due to have some new hires that day and found a car in the station parking lot that was not one of our crews with someone in it, I asked him what he was doing, he stated “sir I am one of your new recruits reporting for duty” I stated your day does not start until 0800, he said I did not want to be late, this guy, a former Marine became one of my best frieds and one of the best firefighters and officers in the department. He also posts on this blog sometimes. IMO vets work much better in a semi-military unit much better than the non vets.
Good ol’ boot camp training.
We’d always be marched out to whatever event was coming up next, then stand there in formation waiting.
Eventually, it got explained to us, that in the Corps, on time is late.
As some of you mugs know, I too am a gummint eeployee.
Luckly, my work force comprizes of 40 – 50 % Vets, we are all deployable assets, been there and done that and we general protect our turf.
However, the above article does not surprize me. Particularly when we are discussing the non-Vet fed workforce within the belt way.
The belt way bandit swing port to starboard based on political winds of change and they bounce from one job to the next … ’till they are in very comfortable GS-13, 14 and or 15 positions …
I am one of those who can sence a belt way bandit from 100 yards. I often turn the other way and if I have to deal with them … I question and scrutinize everything flowing from their yap!
Carry on!
Civilian former fed here. Worked for two different agencies. I can say I saw it all. I saw veterans getting preference who did not deserve it (in the sense that they deserved their preference but not their job by their performance), I saw civilians “resenting” veteran preference, I saw civilians preselected getting jobs they didn’t deserve, I saw civilians treating veterans badly (and stuck up for one in particular as the only witness to the ill treatment), I saw veterans getting job promotions they deserved (with or without preference) and witnessed both resentment and congratulations shown to them. I also felt the sting of being non-selected because of preference a few times. I can say the resentment of other “affirmative action” promotions exists as well. I have sat in on meetings that went on for hours just so people can hear themselves talk and feel important. Thankfully I have not experienced the torture of sitting in on a meeting about the color of carpet… I hate carpet! I have experienced the resentment of being “pretty” and that’s what got me a well deserved job instead of my ridiculous amount of knowledge, education and experience. It happens to us all. The federal employment environment breeds mediocrity, laziness, anger and an environment that promotes stepping on toes and backstabbing – it does not breed integrity, team, or the greater good. I started altruistically – with purpose to do my part for my country (no you would not have wanted my hi-heeled self on the battlefield…) – each year I was a fed it sucked the lifeblood out of me. Now I work for me. Personally, I think it is good veterans have preference – it is deserved. Someday, I hope to have enough success to have employees of my own, and will seek out veterans to hire, as there are many many traits that you have in your character (ok not all of you but most) that are very relevant in the workforce and in life. As I tell my son with regard to bullies, it is also relevant here, those who… Read more »
This point (but not Veteran Preference) is driven home about a different government in a galaxy far, far away, in the book Farewell: The Greatest Spy Story of the Twentieth Century. I just finished it recently.
Sometimes an unfair system breeds more than just anger.
Thank you for the recommendation. It has been a long while since I have been recommended a good book (last one being: On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society
by Dave Grossman). In reading the brief description online, it seems relevant. I’m sure there are a few here and there already (Snowden comes to mind).
I can’t help but think that this headline is a gross exaggeration. Are the SOME non-vets who resent the preferences that veterans get? Of course, this country is big enough that if you look hard enough you can find any sort of aberration you want.
I’m sure if you search long enough you could find some folks here on TAH who part their hair in the middle, drink grape nehi and smoke Kool cigarettes, too. 😉
But as a federal civilian employee for over 8 years I’ve never had anything but positive experiences WRT my vet status. Of the 40 or so people in my office nearly half are vets (and no, this is not the DoD, it’s a completely different government agency, one not affiliated in any way with the military.)
I’ve never heard anybody in my office badmouth or otherwise disparage veterans or veterans preference points (also IIRC the preference is 5 points unless the vet is disabled, I think.)
What’s not to like about grape Nehi? (smile)
Hippie.
Well, just FAQ U, then. (smile)
That 50% mark, or close to it, makes a huge difference. Not likely that the minority of the other half would be vocal about their objections when so outnumbered.
Would be curious to know the number of union members in your work group. Have the odd feeling, based on some experience in this regard, that you have few to none. The larger the proportion of union members, the more silly complaints are heard about any earned benefit. Even when they are the minority within a work group, they remain part of a larger collective.
“I’m sure if you search long enough you could find some folks here on TAH who part their hair in the middle, drink grape nehi and smoke Kool cigarettes, too. 😉 ”
Blaspheme! Burn the hairy tick!
“I’m sure if you search long enough you could find some folks here on TAH who part their hair in the middle, drink grape nehi and smoke Kool cigarettes, too. ;)” Yeah, but Joe the Rock-Climbing Hero from Colorado doesn’t post here very often anymore. 😉
“I’m sure if you search long enough you could find some folks here on TAH who part their hair in the middle, drink grape Nehi and smoke Kool cigarettes, too.”
Heh! Leave me out of this!
Nothing wrong with some Kools. Dat fiberglass tastes awesome! 🙂
Try a Kent with a micronite filter. But don’t throw the butt it in the urinal – to get it to dissolve, you’ll need 3 guys and a keg of beer!
(Hat tip/apologies to the late George Carlin, RIP.)
I guess my problem is that if I had said those things in the article, or things that were said to my face on the job, about any of the recognized protected classes, I’d be racist, sexist, agist, or any other -ist that could be conjured up, but because it’s only veterans, that type of stereotyping is perfectly fine.
“Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
– Theodore Dalrymple
It’s worth remembering that the concept of Political Correctness was brought to our shores by members of the Frankfurt School of Marxism in the mid ’30s.
Great quote. Putting Theodore Dalrymple on my reading list. Thanks.
F-ing Non Rates and Civilians. We do not argue about stupid stuff, it is a waste of time. We tend to fix stupid. We do not PUBLICLY disagree with the boss or some of their GREAT ideas. We will go behind closed doors to offer various other solutions to complete a job and not make the boss look bad. Just because these idiots do not see things happening does not mean they actually know what they are talking about.
So I guess it wasn’t “blind deference to authority” that gave us the IRS and VA scandals. Think about how it might’ve been different if veterans were actually running the VA. I’m betting there wouldn’t be a bunch of dead veterans while executives were getting bonuses. And maybe if there was a vetern in the loop at the IRS they might’ve stood up and said “Hey this seems a little unethical if not downright illegal.”
Thank God we have the SEIU/AFSCME to keep federal employees honest /sarc/
I guess I had it pretty good working for the Bureau of Prisons. I can recall overhearing some non vets talking about specific individuals. That didn’t bother me as the vets they were complaining about were LOPs (low output individuals).
FCI Sheridan loved hiring vets because being one meant they could apply directly to the prison and they’d more than likely pass the initial background check.
As for the blindly following their supervisors. GTFOOH! We called our supervisors on their stupidity all the time. We just did it behind closed doors like we were taught.
Hate to bust yer bubble, Stacy0311 – but every VA Secretary since the VA became a Cabinet Department in 1989 has been a vet.
Going back to the Harding Administration (1922) and looking at the top guy at the VA, I can find zero who don’t seem to have also been a vet. However, I only did a quick search, and couldn’t find an answer on about 1 of them – William J. Driver, VA head under LBJ from 1965-1969. He might not have been.
It’s not lack of having a vet in charge that is the VA’s problem. It’s a combination of misplaced priorities, ineffective leadership, and bad organizational culture.
To point:
FY2012: 31.7% Veterans in “Executive Branch Agencies” *look carefully as the “totals” include Defense Dept.
VA: 34.1% Veteran employees;
IRS 11% Veteran employees
http://www.fedshirevets.gov/hire/hrp/reports/EmploymentOfVets-FY12.pdf
http://www.va.gov/vetdata/docs/Quickfacts/Homepage_opm_vets_quickfacts.pdf
I’ve been out of work since July. Before that, the only job I could get was a crappy janitor job. When I put in any form of application to anything even remotely close to what I did in the Army for 9 years, I am told that I’m overqualified. Hell, they told me that I’m overqualified for a supervisory position in an inventory room… literally the same thing I did for four years in the military.
How is this preferential treatment? I have a Bachelor’s, am a vet, have nine years experience in the same career field, but am overqualified for anything in that career field regardless of whether they want experience or not.
I know I’m not the only vet who is facing this. I have friends here in Oregon who have the same problem. Am I pissed that a civilian who probably lied on his resume got a job that I put in for? Nope. Why? Because of how much it is costing the company.
The same job listing for the same position in the same company has appeared nine times in the past five months. They keep telling me that I’m overqualified, but they also can’t seem to keep anyone in the position. Seeing as how it is a high-risk for theft position (dental tool supply), I am assuming that most of their former employees have a free mug shot from their job experience with the company.
Ah, must be talking ADEC.
Lazy, unionized civilian federal workers are feeling threatened by veterans. No one should be surprised. Now if only veterans can get into the unions at the top ranks, things might start to turn around.
You do realize that only about 1/3 of the Federal workforce belongs to a union, right?
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2011/01/federal_worker_union_membershi.html
“Only” about one third??? Even FDR saw no justification for gubmint employees to have a union.
That is one disgusting figure.
True. Although it’s been falling for quite some time (as has the general US union membership rate), it’s still far higher than the national average.
On the other hand, it’s considerably lower than that of state/local government employee union membership. That fraction is at least 5% higher than the Federal rate.
And just as disgusting. At least some of those state/local union members are subject to closer scrutiny since they are often in closer proximity to those they are supposed to be serving. Not that that translates into greater accountability, but the potential for it is greater.
Really, OWB? Last time I visited my nearest DMV office, I didn’t particularly enjoy the experience.
Once you get above the small town level, local doesn’t make much difference. Above that, it’s been my experience that “faceless (and largely feckless) bureaucracy” becomes the norm.
Non-vet DOD with just shy of a decade in the GOV here. Article’s biased crap. I’ve worked with vets that are great, average, and total oxygen thiefs, just like the civilians.
I’m pretty sure the vets that weren’t all that great to work with/for as civilians weren’t standouts in uniform either. You know, “That guy was a dick before he joined the military, was a dick while in the military, some people are just born dicks.”
The plenty of POS civilians around were born dicks, they just weren’t uniformed dicks.
All honorably discharged vets have earned that credit as a service perk, but it doesn’t mean they’re automatically great employees either.
Of course you vets should hammer anyone stereotyping you for being a vet. The jerks have it coming. The whiners in that article are attributing their own shortcomings and failures externally against a group they don’t belong to.
What I find disgusting is the way Vets who get hired on as govvies turn on other vets that are Defense Contractors. This is happening in VA and not just Northern VA.
Guess I’m the lucky one- civilian DOD after military service. Workforce is about 20% active duty, 20% govvie, the rest contract support. I’d say 80% of the non-uniform are vets like me. I also have a dream job supporting flight test of the Navy’s new aviation ASW platform, the P-8A Poseidon.
“A female manager at the U.S. Forest Service in Milwaukee said veterans make sexually suggestive comments to her and colleagues.
“I understand their lives were on the line over in Iraq, but we have a lot of, quite frankly, complaints,” said the manager, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. “They’re a little rough with their people skills.””
Ma’am, you wouldn’t know “rough” unless it was licking the clap out of your sandy vage.
To someone like her, a “rough day” probably means running out of her favorite lip gloss and then getting a chip on one of her polished fingernails, she sounds like the type that would fret and call in sick on a “bad hair day”!
‘sexually suggestive comments’?????\
Bitch, please. Like what? Gee, has she ever heard of telling someone to shut his crappy mouth if she doesn’t like what he says? The crap I put up with from sailors would have had her in tears.
Toughen up, miss civvie sandcrab. I do not feel sorry for you.
Yo honey … When the retired Chief said, “you have an ass like a cow and a brain like a worm” that was NOT sexually suggestive!
Just sayin’!
Glad to know you are manning the bunker again. I trust all is secure.
I work in state government and the feeling is mutual. A lot of my non-veteran (most) coworkers are lazy, have poor hygiene in their workspace, will lie to your face, complain, lack discipline, show up whenever the fuck they want, call in sick on Mondays, Fridays and day before/after their scheduled vacations. They don’t give a fuck about the people we serve (I’m in social work) and only care about their paycheck.
On the other hand, the few prior service coworkers I am honored to work for and under have discipline, integrity, and are reliable. They don’t bitch and complain and try to get the Union involved every time the goddamn manager makes a decision that they dislike, etc. They care about our clients and work overtime knowing that the state won’t pay them for it.
Fucking civilians…
I have no problems saying this except that I have not fulfilled the career conditional part of my hiring process with the US Treasury.
I love my job, I love the people I work with but they have absolutely no clue what it takes to be, to survive, to advance as a member of the military.
Until I retire from the civil service I will do everything I can to make sure any worthy veteran is hired to show these “suspect” employees how to get a job done!
I hope it works for you, but I believe once you reach career you won’t be singing the same happy tune… and, please, watch your back.
From what I’ve observed over the years, the advice from “Civilian She” below is sound. Might want to keep it in mind – especially the “watch your back” part.
So, gov’t workers should be whining Pajama Boys who vote Democrat and feel cashing their paycheck is job responsibility?