Fudging performance reports

| August 28, 2014

Donut Rangers

SGT(P) E sends a link to the Army Times in which they report that folks on the E-8/9 promotion board noticed that some senior NCOs submitted for evaluation were getting not only heavier, but taller as well and they issued a criticism of the practice;

“As soldiers gain weight over time, they often, according to their NCOERs, grow in height” so they will be in compliance with Army’s weight control regulation, according to the Regular Army Sergeant Major Selection, Training and Promotion board that met in June. It was easy for the board to suss out potential cheaters by simply comparing the height in the NCOER with Enlisted Record Briefs and Academic Evaluation Reports.

The board noticed a second problem: Some raters overemphasize the PT success of an E-8’s subordinates at his or her command, rather than the individual. This was a red flag to the board to dig deeper and examine the E-8’s personal score.

“The Excellence block is too often checked and not backed up with substantive bullets in the physical fitness section,” the board reported.

Of course, it doesn’t happen in every case, and probably statically few, but the new NCOER was supposed to end inflated performance evaluations. I remember that guidance and probably screwed some of my own subordinates because I thought everyone would comply. Silly me.

And that’s the picture that the Army Times uses in their article, too. I guess the senior NCO Corps thinks it’s time to rest on their laurels. After Vietnam we had some NCOs who thought that their combat time bought them some leeway in the battle of their bulge, but when the military started cleaning out the ranks in the early 80s, those fellows were the first to go. Instead of being the cutting edge of training with their combat experience, they tried to ride out their records until retirement.

But, I don’t see a Ronald Reagan in our near future.

Category: Army News

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Just Plain Jason

I am shocked! I tell you, shocked! Good Ol boys taking care of themselves? Never!

ChipNASA

Oh look….a FAT PILL!!! Om Nom Nom NOm….
/retired

CCO

Yeah, well, I’ve put on few pounds (if 30 is a few) myself; but I’ve been out for 17 years.

USMCE8Ret

IIRC, prior to USMC promotion boards, photos to be considered by the board have to be taken and submitted within 90 days of the board convening and must have height/weight/date certification by a commissioned officer. I believe there is a comparison made to any older photos…

Of course, folks can gain weight during that 90 (?) day period, but surely not 30 fuggin’ pounds.

Correct me if I’m wrong. I only presume that’s still common practice.

Just an Old Dog

Thats what I recall too. The photo guys would help out a lot by putting clamps on your uniform to make the “pleats” look better.
They also had to have a request letter from your command that had all your info on it, Ht Wt SSN etc. That would go on a chart they put in the photo at your feet.
I heard sea stories about how they would lay guys on their side so their guy wouldnt hang over their belt, or people would try to send look a likes to get the photos done.

USMCE8Ret

Most photo places on base won’t let their folks touch the person getting a photo taken anymore. You have to take a buddy with you to help with the adjustments – alligator clips and all that. (At least that’s what I recall how things went down 3 1/2 years ago on Quantico.)

A Proud Infidel®™

A “Bubba System” in today’s Army? PERISH THE THOUGHT!!!
/sarc

Ex-PH2

Hey! If I can lose weight at my age, so can they! No excuses!

I mean, I like ice cream and chocolate chip cookies as much as anyone else, but that pushing exercise* always works for anyone who engages in it. Works for me.

*Pushing away from the table, pushing the dinner plate away, pushing the gravy boat toward someone else. 🙂

A Proud Infidel®™

*Mmmmmmm*, gravy…..

RunPatRun

If anything, we get shorter as we age and our spine compresses. While not a fan of the tape test, there are no good reasons for failing weight or PT. Maybe medical, but some peeps like to ride that one too. Had a Cav Scout as a detailed recruiter with hurting shins. Oh boo hoo…

Hondo

Yep.

I’ve seen a very few guys get taller after entering the service. But those guys were young (late teens/early 20s). They weren’t in their 30s or 40s.

Losing height is much more common.

Sparks

Hondo…Well when I enlisted I was 5′ 11″ and now I’m 6′ 4″. So, I’m right on par for height and weight standards. Man, I could still do the obstacle course! /sarc and humor off now/

Ah, the lies the mirror tells us…every day!

nbcguy54

Quite an example that the Senior NCO Corps are sending to the junior ranks. And this doesn’t happen overnight. These are the same NCOs that have fudged PT scores, weapons quals and probably ridden profiles like cheap hookers
Put them on a public wall of shame like Ft Ben used to have for all to see.

royh
NavyCWORet

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Holy Jesus! What is that? What the fuck is that? WHAT IS THAT, PRIVATE PYLE?

Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, a jelly doughnut, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: A jelly doughnut?

Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, yes, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: How did it get here?

Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, I took it from the mess hall, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Is chow allowed in the barracks, Private Pyle?

Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, no, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Are you allowed to eat jelly doughnuts, Private Pyle?

Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, no, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: And why not, Private Pyle?

Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, because I’m too heavy, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Because you are a disgusting fat body, Private Pyle!

Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, yes, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Then why did you try to sneak a jelly doughnut in your footlocker, Private Pyle?

Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, because I was hungry, sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Because you were hungry…

GDContractor

Hey guys, I get emails all the time saying that I can grow taller, so to speak.

Reaperman

If I were just 8’10” I’d probably be good to come back in.

Reaperman

Failing that growth spurt, all it would take is a 50″ neck.

Grimmy

“Instead of being the cutting edge of training with their combat experience, they tried to ride out their records until retirement.”

We used to call that type o’ SNCO – “Coffee Hooks”.

Useless for anything other than keeping an office chair grounded in case of sudden and unexpected gravity inversion.

A Proud Infidel®™

That’s the breed I refer to as “ROADies” Retired On Active Duty!

Just an Old Dog

LIFER

Lazy Ignorant Fucker Expecting Retirement.

FatCircles0311

I’ve only seen one overweight SNCO in the Marines. He was a gunny of course and master of the MRE supply.

Sapper3307

We called em range control/Burger King bandits in Wildfleken.

A Proud Infidel®™

“Burger King Bandits”, I am SO going to have to steal that!!

USMCE8Ret

My fuggin’ sides are aching from laughing so hard at the comments here.

Thanks – it was a rough day and I needed that.

Bob Walsh

There was a retired E-8 photographer in VA who used to take DA photos at his home studio. I think he wanted about $250/set. What I can say is that the difference between his photos and what you got at Meade’s photo lab were like night and day.

For one, he went over your 2,2-1 to make sure you had all your awards, and if you were missing anything, even numerals or OLC’s, he would remedy that. Then he went over your uniform to deal with any & all wrinkles, etc.

-But for one of our TM SGT’s who was a PT animal, but still rather porky, he actually wrapped the guy up tightly in Saran-wrap, then had him dress…

Fen

I’ll prob get jumped for this, but our height/wieght standards are borked.

When I made NCO in the Marines, I was a fatbody nazi, so I’m speaking of someone who was adamant about punishing fatbodies with extra PT and duty and no fricken way are they getting above a 4.3/4.3 in their SRB.

Then my Gunny explained his side (and he’s build like Chuck Liddell). Basically, it doesn’t accoutn for diff body types. But the main point he made is that in Viet Nam and Iraq, the “fatbodies” carried more than their fair share of weight. He didn’t like seeing good leaders held back because of somebody’s idea of what everyone’s “proper” weight should be.

Fen

/edit, should be

so I’m speaking AS someone who was adamant about punishing fatbodies with extra PT and duty and no fricken way are they getting above a 4.3/4.3 in their SRB.