Can’t Bomb Them into Submission?

| August 25, 2014

Operation ArcLight

Says who? In 1965-66 I huddled at night inside my dug-in defensive perimeter and watched the flickering lightning of the explosions of Operation Arc Light, an aggressive use of American heavy bombing capabilities against the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese enemies we faced. The sky-lighting flashes accompanied seconds later by muted rumbles gave only the barest hint of the unbelievable violence being unleashed upon our enemy a few kilometers distant.

Days later, our ground patrolling into the bombed areas gave us an awed appreciation of the power of America’s Air Forces. The former jungle terrain was a scorched and scarred moonscape with the only visible life being the green shoots pressing an inch or two upward to the tropical sunlight, testament to the eternal renewability of life.

But those green sprigs were it. Every other thing in that landscape was dead. Irregularly spaced craters, several yards across and several feet deep depending on what the original topography had been, covered the area where the bombs had impacted. There was the occasional indication that humans had once been there, small bits and pieces of weaponry and the various metal accouterments of any infantry force, helmets, canteens, and so forth. Of human remains my patrols found none, at least none that were recognizable as such, nor did we find the remains of the indigenous animals like monkeys and water buffalo that we knew had lived there, possibly even tigers.

No, all mammalian life had been obliterated, reduced to particles of flesh and bone no longer visible to the human eye, blown into oblivion by a storm of fire and concussion that can never be fully described because no scribe who might be in the center of such events could ever survive to record them. Descriptions are left to the few of us who went in on the ground to survey the results of a B-52 carpet bombing campaign. I will wager that every trooper from the 327th Airborne Infantry who took part in those patrols will, to this day, tell you how he thanked his Maker that our enemies possessed no weapon equal to our Buffalos.

That’s a long preface to get to the premise of my piece about the issues challenging America and other Western democracies today. We are facing Muslim insurgencies throughout the areas where the teachings of Mohammed have poisoned millions of minds into believing that the only way they can survive is to dominate the world. Because America represents the biggest challenge to such a conquest, we are naturally their primary target, probably not a problem as long as we have the courage and the fortitude to deal with it over there rather than over here.

In order to become a fully functional cohesive military threat, capable of seizing territory and holding it, these ragtag jihadi revolutionaries must assemble their military assets into a cohesive force capable of effective offensive operations that result in the seizure and occupation of the sovereign territories needed to make up their Islamic caliphate. As every marauding tyrant in history has known, it requires concentrations of forces in key positions to attack, overrun, and then hold that portion of the world you intend to make part of your empire. That rule is indelible; it doesn’t change, as America, with her mighty air and naval armadas, has so recently learned; you cannot hold geography without sufficient forces in place on the ground.

But, America is not interested in seizing and holding any Middle Eastern geography; our goal is to deny that capability to others by not allowing them to build and assemble forces sufficient to be dominant. To the naysayers, military and civilian, who claim on television and in op-ed pieces that a determined and unrelenting, heavy bombing campaign can’t reduce any assembled forces of ISIS to rubble, I say, talk to infantry veterans of Vietnam who surveyed the results of B-52 strikes in that battleground.

With the intelligence capabilities we have today we most assuredly can monitor ISIS activities to determine when and where they are marshaling their forces for a major assault. When our intel indicates they are engaged in that process, we allow them sufficient time to gather as many of their forces as possible before their planned assault and then we send in the BUFFs at that critical moment to turn their marshaling areas and massed forces into nothing more than many, many large, smoking holes in the sand filled with nothing but memories of the atomized, wannabee soldiers of Allah. I guarantee you that any ISIS members who come in post-raid to assess the damages will gain a fresh understanding of what the term terror must truly mean, like my fellow troopers and I did fifty years ago.

Sadly, like so many other unused capabilities this great nation possesses, our heavy bombing assets will probably be kept on a tight leash by this dithering, incompetent loser in the White House that the Democrat party foisted on this nation and the world, an act of political treachery for which they should never be forgiven.

Crossposted on American Thinker

Category: Military issues

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John Robert Mallernee

I remember seeing a distant Arc Light mission in the A Shau Valley at night, when pulling perimeter bunker guard at Camp Eagle, the headquarters base camp of the 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile) “Screaming Eagles”, which the 327 Infantry is part of.

Since I was a Field Radio Relay and Carrier Equipment Repairman (MOS 31 L 20) in Headquarters and Support Company of the 501st Signal Battalion (Airmobile), I never had occasion to enter the A Shau Valley.

I reckon the closest I got might have been Fire Base T-Bone, or the Perfume River, across from Fire Base Birmingham.

A few months earlier, when I was in the 178th Maintenance Company at Dong Ha, I was riding in a jeep to one of the Fire Bases, either A-4, C-1, or C-2, I saw exactly what you saw throughout the DMZ, a landscape that looked like pictures of No Man’s Land in the First World War.

On the few occasions that I did go outside the wire on an actual foot patrol, I marveled that the terrain looked more like the Old West than an Asian jungle, and that was the result of the Agent Orange spraying.

John Robert Mallernee

Personally, I think the United States of America should formally declare total war against Islam, making preemptive nuclear strikes, followed up with bacteriological contamination, of Mecca, Medina, and Riyadh.

Mosques located in the United States of America should be razed, and any Muslims residing in the United States of America, should be arrested, incarcerated, and deported.

A Proud Infidel®™

Once said Mosques are razed, the rubble needs to be sprayed with bacon grease!!

John Robert Mallernee

Thinking about my memories of Arc Light in the A Shau, plus the Agent Orange effects looking like the Old West, just reminded me of something – – – ,

The Area of Operations (i.e., “AO”) of the 101st Airborne was called, “The Ponderosa”.

The A Shau was called, “The Big Valley”.

And, of course, hostile areas were known as, “Indian Country”.

Nifty, huh?

Remember the famous Battle of Hamburger Hill?

The 801st Maintenance Battalion at Camp Eagle was located on “Hot Dog Hill”!

One of my favorite memories (and I admit to wandering FAR afield in this) is when the NVA destroyed the relays of the AFVN radio signal, leaving us guys at Camp Eagle with no more good ol’ All-American Rock ‘n’ Roll to listen to.

(By the way, I have an autographed photo of the AFVN DJ, “Millie”, whose program I listened to each afternoon!)

So, our 501st Signal Battalion, being a Signal Corps unit, began broadcasting nightly an illegal, unlicensed, and unauthorized radio program of good ol’ All-American Rock ‘n’ Roll, which the troops totally loved, naturally improving unit morale, as the radio DJ played requests.

However, after a short period of time, the outlaw radio station was abruptly shut down.

Guess why?

Someone had requested the radio play the song, “THE FOOL ON THE HILL”, and dedicated it to the Commanding Officer of the 801st Maintenance Battalion!

cas6

That sounds familiar, Just like the Mormons in 1840, eh?

John Robert Mallernee

No, the Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, the Holy Bible, and the United States of America, with all of its personal liberty and traditional family morals.

Islam has no such regard for their fellowman, and indeed, if faithful, they are REQUIRED to slay or enslave those who do not believe as they do.

Didn’t you see the “SIXTY MINUTES” broadcast on CBS, subsequent to the enemy sneak attacks of Tuesday 11 September 2001, where Islamic high school students in New York City were asked about their opinions of Jihad against the United States of America, which those Islamic high school students UNANIMOUSLY supported?

CAS6

It doesn’t matter, believing in Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible are not requirements for being an American.

What you are suggesting has been tried before, on the Mormons in the 1830s and 1840s, and you don’t seem to connect that to what you are suggesting. It’s just as wrong and immoral to suggest exterminating Muslims as it is to suggest exterminating Mormons.

John Robert Mallernee

Ah, but Islam is very clearly, ANTI-AMERICAN!

Mormons never wanted to destroy the United States of America, but Islam BRAGS that it will.

In the Bible, we are counselled, “By their fruits, you shall know them.”

So, what are the fruits of Islam?

How can we NOT see it?

ByrdMan

Careful Mr. Mallernee…your bigotry and ingnorance is showing.

John Robert Mallernee

@ BYRDMAN, ET ALII:

“Careful Mr. Mallernee…your bigotry and ingnorance is showing.”
___________________

Yes, and I stand by every word that I’ve written.

I see nothing wrong with being intolerant, bigoted, biased, and prejudiced.

There is everything wrong with blindly acquiescing to popular opinion and failing to acknowledge the facts, or properly respond to an overt, impending military threat.

I regard Islam as even more menacing than the Communist Party U.S.A., or maybe as an ideological ally of the Communist Party U.S.A.

Note how SILENT the so-called “moderate” Muslims are in response to Islamic outrages and atrocities.

jack

They aren’t silent at all. Every government in the region is actively fighting ISIS and vocal in their condemnation, to include the Kurds. Most of the victims are Muslim, and they are very vocal.

jack

You will have to learn to tolerate me disagreeing with you, because I will never come to terms with intolerance, bigotry, or prejudice. Thanks for stating it so clearly.

Jack

‘Islam’ is not bragging about anything. Certain groups of militant Muslims have made threats and predictions.

John Robert Mallernee

Please define the difference between “Militant Muslims” and “Moderate Muslims”.

jack

Well, militant Muslims are those that default to violence to attain their goals, while moderate Muslims are those that do not. In this case, ISIS are the militant Muslims while the moderate Muslims are the villagers that ISIS is slaughtering as well as the Kurdish Muslims and Iraqi Muslims that are fighting to defeat ISIS.

John Robert Mallernee

My question was sarcastic.

There is no difference.

The closest parallel would be comparing a Mormon with a Jack Mormon.

Jack

I find this comment to be very disturbing.

A war on Islam and destroying all mosques and arresting all Muslims would be unconstitutional and repugnant to the founding principles of the country.

Also, as a minor aside, it would be morally reprehensible and a crime against humanity… and it would solve nothing while inspiring more violence.

Islamic terrorists kill far more Muslims than anyone else- something like 85% of Al Qaeda’s victims are Muslim.

These people need our help, not our condemnation.

John Robert Mallernee

Helping them hasn’t worked.

If you wish to survive, first, know your enemy.

What does Islam believe, preach, teach, support, and FORCE on other people?

Jack

You are essentially calling for the eradication of all Muslims in order to save Muslims in the region from a small group of other Muslims.

Specific groups, primarily Wahabist-influenced groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS have justified terrorism and violence to attain their goals. This is not representative of Islam or Muslims as a whole.

This violence is primarily focused on other Muslims. ISIS is a Wahabist (in other words, Sunni Muslim fundamentalist) Al Qaeda offshoot. They have declared an Islamic State (caliphate) in Iraq, and are willing to kill all Muslims that they see as apostates, to include all Shia Muslims and many Sunni Muslims.

John Robert Mallernee

@ JACK, Et Alii:

“This is not representative of Islam or Muslims as a whole.”
__________________

Au contraire!

According to their own scriptures and their own revered prophet, it certainly is.

jack

Could you cite exactly what passages in the Koran you are referencing? I would like to know exactly what you mean.

4thID RVN

Amen, brother. Black Jack Pershing had the answer to muzzie extremists. We will kill you and bury you with slaughtered hog carcases. 72 virgins? You’d better use your left hand.

4thID RVN

The problem is that we lack the will to win. Not every muzzie is a terrorist, but all terrorists are muzzies. Give them collectively 1 year (week, month or whatever). Let them know that if we are not impressed with their self-policing, islam no longer exists. All shrines, holy places where mo took a dump etc, are to be eradicated. These folks have been a plague upon the earth since mo humped his first 13 year old. They need to be fixed or obliterated for decent people to live in safety.

ByrdMan

Terrorists who ARE NOT Muslim…

Wade Michael Page

Scott Roeder

Timothy McVeigh

Shoka Asahara

Eric Robert Rudolph

Michael Bray

There’s more, but my point has been made.

Jack

Who is ‘them’? ISIS does not speak for or control all Muslims the world over.

ISIS would rejoice if we destroyed all holy places as they see shrines and tombs as idolatry and therefore apostasy. In fact, ISIS has themselves destroyed Islamic holy sites and wants to destroy more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/10/isis-destroys-shrines-and-mosques-sets-sights-on-mecca/

Al T.

Worked pretty well in the 1st Gulf War.

Ex-PH2

Villagers use those bomb craters as fish ponds now.

A Proud Infidel®™

Sixth Century, HELL, BOMB ‘EM BACK TO THE STONE AGE!!

Sapper3307

Me thinks it would be bombing them forward to the stone age.

A Proud Infidel®™

Uuuhhhm, yeah, I see what you mean. How ’bout “BOMB ‘EM INTO OBLIVION” instead?

GruntSgt

Arc Light, awesome to behold, sobering to BDA. It should stretch from their furthest reach East clear back to the West through Syria to the shores of the Med. to include as Lt. Col. Ralph Peters so eloquently put it, “to include their parents and their pet goats too”,

4thID RVN

Those goats are brides, not pets.

Stacy0311

There’s ALWAYS a military solution to a problem. Unfortunately our political “leaders” aren’t willing or don’t have the balls to do it.

FatCircles0311

Sorry we are too busy apologizing for using the word bacon in public because it offends some scumfuck.

Aint nobody got time to confront evil.

Kinda old ET1

I saw that article as well. Really? She was offended by the WORD Bacon?

*Facepalm*

CB Senior

So what if the naysayers are right. Do the bombing then congratulate them on being right.
Look for alternatives while everybody is in a spider hole keeping out of deaths eye.

Ex-PH2

Bomb the damned oil wells.

You can always put them out later.

Roger in Republic

I remember reading that the one thing that the Iraqi army feared was the B-52. It totally destroyed their will to fight. It was the same thing with the NVA forty years earlier. They suffered horribly under the rain of BUFF delivered HE. And remember, North VietNam only returned to the Paris Peace talks after Nixon restarted the Arc Light raids under Linebacker II. I say we give ISIS/ISIL a taste of Arc Light. Let um taste it till they choke!

A Proud Infidel®™

B52 – THE WORST NUMBER to call in an Iraqi or Afghan Bingo game!!

David

Nothing like carpet bombing to win a battle, destroy troops in the open, or demoralize the civilian recipients. However, there are also other places like Tarawa – when you have a well dug-in enemy with decent morale, they will rise from the rubble and resist. Carpet bombing doesn’t historically hold territory or win wars. Not against it, you understand – I just don’t think it’s a one-size-fits-all solution.

The Other Whitey

Maybe not, but it never hurts!

4thID RVN

Perhaps not. But a WONDERFUL start.

David

I’m all over it as a tool. I just hate the push-button mindset that says “if we bomb the crap out of them from the air we won’t need to go in on the ground.” Those are the same folks who later say there is no need for the ground folks, since air does it all. We then get badly shocked when yes, you DO need knuckle-draggers to finish the job… but in the pursuit of the Holy Bomb we have cut the groundpounders’ budget so they have crap weapons, no ammo to practice with, and no experienced leaders left. (see Korea about 65 years ago.)

ChipNASA
Ex-PH2

At this point, I think they’re too amorphous and widely scattered for something like that to do any good. It might work if they were more settled in, because that would provide specific locations to target.

However, perhaps a few bombing raids using not just the B-52s but also in concert with the faster, low-level Warthogs and fighter-bombers, and using 1000-lb bombs might make the point.

If you’ve kept up with the news about ISIL/IS, they’ve taken the airbase at Raqa, so why not obliterate that? Ditto, whatever they’ve seized in Libya, and ask the Egyptians to go whack ’em, too.

But whatever, don’t do it just once and say ‘well, that’s done’. No, do it once, make it clear there is much more where that comes from and back it up. Period.

Disclaimer: I would not care to be on the receiving end of a bombing run by a B-52 or an airstrike or missile strike.

Ex-PH2

Oh, I agree, Poetrooper, that multiple high altitude bombing rus will have a massive impact on them. Hitting the Raqa airbase as well as the Tripoli airport, which they seized a few days ago, and making both of them useless for any purpose will likely have a serious mental impact on the ISers. And making those airbases useless adds to that.

However, following up with large groups of attack aircraft in the night should be included in those bombing runs.

bartdp

In the Summer of 1969 I witnessed a Arc Light Mission near Tay Ninh Province. We were instructed to move to a location about 5 klicks from the target area. The next morning as the bombing run started we watched as each wave of B 52’s dropped their deadly cargo. It took some time for the shock wave to reach us as impressive as the sight was the shock wave was not expected……..I’m not sure how to explain it but I had never felt anything like it before. After the mission was over my mechanized Cav unit moved through the drop zone……..house size craters everywhere! I couldn’t imagine anything surviving!

Jack

Tempting, but I don’t think a carpet bombing campaign would be terribly effective and it could potentially do more harm than good. Here’s why: As you Poetrooper described, ISIS is what we call a hybrid threat- they can assemble and fight as an organized force, or disperse and act as a guerilla force. You have to act fast to interdict them while they are assembled. And we aren’t terribly good at that. Of course, to know when this is happening we will need someone on the ground. It is easy to say that our ISR assets will pick this up, but it is actually fairly difficult. Even when assembled, ISIS doesn’t present the kind of signatures that are easy to detect from the air. I know the idea of carpet bombing northern Iraq seems satisfying, but the majority of people there are ordinary civilians who want no part of ISIS either. We would end up killing a lot of civilians and very few fighters. Further, the comparisons to strategic bombing campaigns in WWII and Vietnam are not really valid. ISIS is not the sovereign representative government of the region. This would not be like the firebombing of Dresden or Tokyo, but more like bombing Paris or Saigon. We would be punishing innocent civilians, and ISIS would care less. It would not change their tactics or bring them to the bargaining table. Many don’t care if we kill a lot of civilians. I do, but more importantly it would be considered a war crime in the modern era, notwithstanding what we did in WWII. Targeting and intelligence capabilities are much better, and the US is expected to discriminate civilian from military targets, use the minimum amount of force necessary, and avoid unnecessary loss of life and destruction of infrastructure. We can’t really argue that we are going after ISIS infrastructure since they don’t have any. In the end, we would kill a lot of civilians, lose a lot of support, and we would not really harm ISIS much. In fact, it could serve as a great propaganda and recruiting tool for… Read more »

Ex-PH2

You left out one important thing, Jack: ISIL/IS does not wish to ‘bargain’ or reach agreements. With them, it is ‘join us or die’.

Just an Old Dog

The more that ISIS strives to make itself a legitimate Isamic Caliphate the more they expose themselves to conventional warfare.
A few rats running around in a truck in the desert isnt much of a target. A barracks and a motor pool are. The same with power stations, bridges and infrastructure

Taurus USMC 0302

In late 68 or early 69 we were tasked with taking a hill south of the DMZ. We we told they were in bunkers. Previous experience told me that although our air power would soften the target we would still have to make a ground assault. When we were within a click of the jumping off point I was instructed to pull the platoon back to 2 clicks and there would be an arclight.I knew it was a wave of 3 B52s but had no inkling of what was coming. We dug deep holes per instructions. I never heard the aircraft. I felt like I was on a rubber raft in the ocean. The ground did not shake it rolled. A pride of tigers ran through us and one jumped right over my hole. I will never forget it. Men reported being hit by NVA body parts.
Barry Goldwater’s running mate, Curtis Lemay, gave my favorite quote of the war. When asked how he would conduct the war he said, “bomb them back to the stone age”. He got my vote. Lemay was a retired Air Force General responsible for bombing Japan.
If we are going to fight those muslim turds then obliterate them but we know that will never happen.

The Other Whitey

Bombs-Away LeMay may or may not have actually said it, but there’s no question that he would agree with it!

Taurus USMC 0302

None. There were pieces of bunkers, logs, weapons and body parts. My understanding was that an arclight was 3 bombers. It was awesome. Another awesome sight was puff the magic Dragon. A c130 with a mini gun firing at night. Every 5th round was a tracer. The image in my mind was of God peeing with a dose of clap. I apologize for the imagery but it came to mind.
You are probably right about the quote. Still an awesome quote whoever said it. Fits my war philosophy as a grunt.

Hondo

PT: the quote is allegedly found in Lemay’s autobiography Mission With Lemay, and is attributed there to him. WickiQuote goes as far as to say it’s found on p. 565 of one edition of that work (edition and publisher not identified). I don’t own a copy, so I can’t verify that as fact.

However, Lemay himself later stated that this was a misquotation or exaggeration by his ghost writer. Lemay’s claim was that his actual words were that we had the capability to bomb them back to the stone age – not that we would or should do so.

Not sure which is actually the truth. IMO either quote is fully in character and consistent with numerous other verified Lemay quotes.

Mario

I remember the times that we would look up and see the contrails of the B52s and what seemed like just minutes later, the vibration from the dropped ordnance underfoot.

Ex-PH2

I’m going to draw a comparison here, not about cockroaches and army ants, which I did elsewhere. No, this is about us as in the US vs. ISIL/IS and Israel vs. Hamas. Egypt has twice brokered a truce between Hamas and Israel, which Ham-ass has broken and continues to break. Egypt is now working in concert with Israel to stop Ham-ass, period. This was in the news today, so you can check it for yourself. Libya’s airport at Tripoli has been overrun by the ISers, as has the airbase in Syria at Rappaq. Israel, whether or not it conjoins itself with Egypt, will continue to bombard the Gaza strip, whether or not civilians have the sense to get themselves out of the way and/or stop harboring the hamasses. It is a fight for survival, and the Israelis know it, as does Egypt’s government. They are less concerned about what kind of PR they get than they are about staying alive. If the US admin is more worried about what the rest of the world thinks of us for doing whatever is necessary to stay alive, than it is about staying alive by pounding ISIL/IS into the ground headfirst, then the US will fail. Period. However, without selecting specific targets where the ISers are known to be occupants – and that includes a large number of villages that they overwhelmed and stole from the real owners – a bombing spree of any kind will be a useless gesture. The point is that if those villages are known, and that info should have been available long since from refugees, then specifically bombing them may be quite effective, or it may just scatter the ISers to the four winds. If this is something that would be effective, then bad PR will have to be ignored. These are just observations on my part. We can debate this subject all day and all night, but since there is no place to hide in Iraq, the way there was in Vietnam, then carpet bombing on an erratic schedule may work. On the other hand, the mope… Read more »

jack

The fight isn’t so much between ISIS and the US as it is ISIS against moderate and Shia Muslims in Iraq and Syria, to include the governments of both countries which are, by the way, Shia dominated.

There is a world of difference between Israels’ targeted strikes against Hamas facilities and forces in Gaza and carpet bombing ISIS occupied territory in Iraq.

For one thing, Israel takes great pains to avoid civilian casualties. Carpet bombing villages would cause a lot of civilian casualties

For another, Hamas is part of the governmental structure in Gaza- the people there actually elected them, so they are somewhat responsible for their actions.
That is not true in Iraq.

By the way, the civilians in Gaza can’t really get out of the way, because neither Israel or Eqypt will let them leave.