A Small Part of Why We Do What We Do at TAH

| May 3, 2014

We all know that the myth of the “messed up Vietnam vet” is a persistent one, at least as applied to Vietnam vets in general.  Despite clear evidence to the contrary it persists to this day.  IMO it’s the genesis of the recent media efforts to demonize more modern vets due to PTSD.

The term “myth” is absolutely apropos.  Truth be told, a tiny fraction of vets did come back from Vietnam with serious issues; this has been the case in every war in history.  But the vast majority came back and got on with their lives successfully.  Despite the media’s portrayal of Vietnam era vets as “messed up losers” Vietnam veterans – those who actually served in-theater – as a group are actually more successful and well-adjusted than their non-vet peers.

During the 1960s and 1970s the music industry bought into that media myth.  It persisted into the 1980s as well.  Hell, even Springsteen made mucho dinero off of the myth with “Born in the USA”.  It’s perhaps the quintessential ode to the myth.

Regardless, the Vietnam veterans simply continued with their lives.  In general they became, and stayed, well-adjusted and successful.  They simply kept their mouths shut and tended to business – just as their fathers and uncles from World War II and Korea had done.

But they also knew that they’d gotten a raw deal from a very influential segment of society.  As a group, they were portrayed as brutes and losers; in reality, they were anything but.  And no one seemed willing to defend them.

That freaking hurt.  So they simply suffered their bad days in silence, and kept on keeping on.

But in the mid-1980s things changed a bit.  The music industry began to alter its perspective.  (I wonder if the POTUS at the time might have had anything to do with that, albeit indirectly?) And a few tunes that IMO captured the reality of the Vietnam veteran were released.

One of those songs in particular IMO captured their post-war experience.  No, it’s NOT “Born In the USA”; that POS of a tune did nothing but reinforce the media myth.  The tune I’m speaking about IMO gave voice to the real Vietnam vet’s frustration – the guy who came home, got on with his life, and put things behind him.  Mostly.

It wasn’t a plea for help, or a “woe is me” story.  It was a simple statement of fact, and of disappointment – and a well-deserved accusation of ingratitude aimed at much of US society.

It damn sure opened my eyes.  I think the first time I heard it was when it dawned on me how badly our Vietnam vets got the shaft after they came home.

Why do I say “ingratitude”?  Because that’s exactly it was – from US society in general.  Vietnam vets got treated damn shabbily because many people didn’t support that conflict.  So they shunned the people who were sent there.

Soldiers don’t choose the wars we’re sent to fight.  Rather, we go where we’re ordered, and fight – and sometimes die – because the nation sent us.  All that we ask is that we get treated fairly afterwards.

The Vietnam generation didn’t want a hero’s welcome.  But they sure as hell didn’t deserve to be spit on and called “baby killers”, either – or portrayed like a bunch of losers or ticking time bombs by the press.

Vietnam vets didn’t complain much at all about getting screwed over.  But they sure as hell remembered.  And after Desert Storm, they were instrumental in making sure it didn’t happen again.

IMO, we’re seeing much the same today.  The media is once again resurrecting the specter of the “messed up vet” – this time due to PTSD – and using it to portray all vets as “messed up losers” because a few have been badly affected by their war experiences.

. . .

Here’s the tune that opened my eyes.  No video accompanying this one.  IMO, none is needed.

 

I’m a bit too young to have served in Vietnam.  But I grew up near a major military installation – one that had a huge role in the Vietnam War.  I grew up during Vietnam. I knew a number of people who served there in-country.

To a man, they were neither “losers” nor “babykillers”.  They were damn fine men.  Those who are still alive today still are.

They got treated shabbily as hell afterwards by US society in general and by the media in particular.  And that’s a damn shame, bordering on the criminal.

Again?  Oh hell no. We got this one, elder brothers-in-arms.

Never again.

Category: Media, Veterans Issues

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Marine_7002

Dead on target, Hondo. *applause*

The lyrics:

“Walking On A Thin Line”

Sometimes in my bed at night
I curse the dark and I pray for light
And sometimes, the light’s no consolation

Blinded by a memory
Afraid of what it might do to me
And the tears and the sweat
Only mock my desperation

Don’t you know me
I’m the boy next door
The one you find so easy to ignore
Is that what I was fighting for?

Walking on a thin line
Straight off the front line
Labeled as freaks
Loose on the streets of the city

Walking on a thin line
Angry all the time
Take a look at my face
See what it’s doing to me

Taught me how to shoot to kill
A specialist with a deadly skill
A skill I needed to have to be a survivor

It’s over now or so they say
Well, sometimes, it don’t work out that way
‘Cause you’re never the same
When you’ve been under fire, no

Don’t you know me
I’m the boy next door
The one you find so easy to ignore
Is that what I was fighting for?

Walking on a thin line
Straight off the front line
Labeled as freaks
Loose on the streets of the city

Walking on a thin line
Angry all the time
Take a look at my face
See what it’s done to me

Don’t you know me
I’m the boy next door
The one you find so easy to ignore
Is that what I was fighting for, no

Walking on a thin line
Straight off the front line
Labeled as freaks
Loose on the streets of the city

Walking on a thin line
Angry all the time
Take a look at my face
See what it’s doing to me

Walking on a thin line
Walking on a thin line
Walking on a thin line

Toasty Coastie

Well said Hondo. Thank you.

My dad was in Viet Nam and I remember what it was like for him when he came home. He never said a word about his time there. Still doesn’t.

He was a hero then and is now. As are all our Viet Nam Vets and our Vets of today. A real Vet has no need to brag or heighten and embellish their service. They do/did as they were told because they believed in what they were fighting for. This Country.

Now I realize a good amount of Viet Nam Vets were drafted and did not go in voluntarily, but they did their time and for that they should be honoured.

Always.

Mr. Blue

Personally, I believe the “scruffy Veet-nam vet” meme came about partially from the anti-war Left’s narrative, that the Eeee-vil Military-Industrial complex was victimizing the poor draftee kids for profits. Thus, the vets had to be portrayed as hapless, traumatized victims. The rather scruffy looking VVAW hippies did their part in reenforcing this stereotype.

And let’s not forget that way too many homeless bums tapped into this meme, and found they could get unearned sympathy by adding “homeless vet” to their “will work for food” signs.

DaveP.

Part of it was also due to Admiral Zumwalt’s “Project 100,000”. You had some awfully dodgy people going into uniform, trained to fairly low standards, and sent out with sometimes questionable leadership… and then it’s no surprise that they returned to civilian life no better than when they left.

DaveP.

I didn’t see that you had already brought the subject up until after I had posted.
The sources I had seen had Zumwalt up as the originator (based on a staffing report he did while working for the Secretary of the Navy), but since I can no longer dig up the reference I’m more than willing to accept that it was in error and dump the responsibility into MacNamara’s lap… but the real problem is that the Program existed at all.

Green Thumb

Well stated article, sir.

LIRight

Thanks seem so inadequate, Hondo. There’s so much I’d like to write, but really can’t.

Keep it up, man, we need guys like you and Jonn to help put the past for Vietnam Vets in its proper perspective.

Old Trooper

Have liked that song since it came out. It still rocks!

Great article, Hondo

SFC D

Concur 100%, Trooper. Song came out when I was attempting college, 18 years old, most of my classmates in the aircraft tech major were much older, almost all of them Vietnam vets or Vietnam era vets. Some of the best men I’ve ever known.

Les

Always loved that song too. Most of the SNCO’s and senior officers were RVN Vet’s when I joined the Army. They didn’t want to be treated with kid gloves, just wanted to Soldier on. And that they did.

Taurus USMC 0302

Thank you. I served as a Platoon Commander with 3rd Marines. I was priveledged to lead some of the finest individuals I will ever know. I was shot and spent 8 months in the hospital. I kicked around for a year and then went to law school. I am still in contact with several men from the platoon. They became successful business men. We all raised families and were contributing members of society. I had two friends who chose to withdraw from society but they paid their own way. You’re right about the left’s portrayal of Viet Nam vets as trouble makers and losers. It fits their narrative. The vets that had problems adjusting were usually shitbirds who never saw combat.

charles w

Shitbirds like John Kerry didn’t help matters much.

Old Trooper

You can thank him and the original Winter Soldier bullshit for the hollywood/leftist narrative.

Mario

Know of a Trooper who enlisted and served in Vietnam with the 11th ACR, 1969. He was wounded and spent four months in a hospital in Yokohama, Japan (106th Gen Hosp). He married (43 yrs)and raised a family (3 girls, 10 grand and one great grand). He worked for over 30 years as a Letter Carrier and served over 25 years in the National Guard. He served in Iraq with the 124th Cav, 36th ID, TXARNG, 2004. He is retired saying that “it was time to fade away.”

LIRight

I Troop, 3rd Sqdn, 11th ACR, 1967-1968, 210th General Hosp. Yokota, Japan, St. Albans Naval Hospital, Queens, NY.

Lots of mileage.

streetsweeper

Well done, Hondo!

The following is based my opinion, observation and volunteer time helping the Swift Vets. It was never sKerry’s intention to help. He couldn’t be like his personal idol, John F Kennedy no matter what or how hard he tried. I’m willing to wager, this asshat sKerry was well on his way to being anti-war before he went in the USN.

Every action he has taken, has been purely for the quest of political power and wiggled his way into it. While I am not a professional socialogist, his pattern of behavior past and present and to include the air about him fit very well within the area of narrisism.

John 5

Thank You for that. John 5 (VN69/70)

OWB

Some of us will never forgive the left for what they did to a generation of warriors. It was a direct assault on America, funded by countries and ideologies which never were and still are not our friends.

Yes, street, sKerry was most likely one of many who were enlisted for the specific purpose of lending that “veteran” title to members of the pinko anti-war crowd.

While at it, I also blame the so-called greatest generation for raising the spoiled brats who did all.

Nice post, Hondo. One volunteer at a Vet Center told me that there was more healing done while we were in DS/DS than he had seen in all the years prior. “Never Again” became the theme for those guys.

MustangCryppie

My brother was artillery, 16 months, 1969-1970, Long Binh, Bien Hoa, Pleiku, Firebase 6. He was drafted. Didn’t want to go, but didn’t want to have to go to Canada or Sweden.

I still haven’t forgiven Carter for pardoning the draft dodgers and it made me sick when they came back to this country as heroes. I wanted to vomit.

I was a little too young to have been drafted. Instead I went to college in 1973. Had a long talk about the war over lots of wine with one of my professors who happened to be Korea combat vet. Talk about forgotten warriors!

Anyway, he told me that during one demonstration against the war, a guy went by with a girl on his shoulders. The girl, with a big smile on her face, screamed “Isn’t revolution WONDERFUL!”

I hate that woman and those of her ilk.

Obviously, being the age I am, I knew a lot of Vietnam vets. All good men. Some went cause they wanted to, other cause they felt they had to. But they went and I respect them immensely just for that.

AverageNCO

Bravo Zulu Hondo. I’ll make a repeat soapbox post that I’ve made before, but TAH gets new readers all the time. If you’ve never read B.G. Burkett’s book, “Stolen Valor,” you need to tomorrow. He was a Vietnam vet who lived this scenario. I’m reminded of the chapter on the opening of the Texas Vietnam Veteran’s Memorial where the press didn’t want to talk to the Vets who used their military experience to build successful lives. They only wanted to talk to the scraggily guys in wrinkled fatigues who wanted to be drama queens in front of a camera. (Dave Groves?) Sorry if you’ve seen me post this before, I’ll probably do it again. Now I just need to get around to reading Doug Sterner’s new book.

Poetrooper

NCO you’ll be pleased to know that Burkett, in spite of advancing age and declining health is still on the job. I spoke to him this past week regarding phony SEAL, Steven Haynes. As it so happens, and badly for Haynes, Burkett also lives in Plano, TX where Haynes was exposed. The day after my initial call, Burkett was already talking to local investigators and reporters about Haynes.

He was also instrumental in the busting of that VA fraud, Bork, that Jonn posted about last week.

Burkett’s an old war horse who still has the bit between his teeth.

Ex-PH2

I never knew any in-country Vietnam vets who were ‘messed up’. Most of them just kept their mouths shut, or shrugged and said something like ‘yeah, I was there’.

NavyDavy

Thanks for this post. Always thought that PTSD was bogus for the most part. Never met anyone that had it in my 29 years. There are a lot of myths about Vietnam and it’s Vets mostly spread by the MSM. One fact is that 2/3 of Vietnam Vets were volunteers. (Most Navy Vietnam Vets had to volunteer to go in-country). http://www.sgthackbio.com/vietnam-war-facts.htm VAL-4 69-70.

Stingers Door Gunner

Hanks for your support to all military people. And thanks from all my Vietnam Brothers.

Two Tour Door Gunner George

LoNg RaNgE PaTrOL 41

….. HONDO …… you son of a bitch.

How dare you and this band of bastards try to “distance yourself” from your dastardly deeds to the Vietnam War Veterans of today. This shit-hole place is part of the ongoing problems for the real Vietnam War Veterans. If your Vietnam War (not stationed in New Jersey)friends and relations knew what all you do cyber/suiciding the combat Viet Vets here…? They would slap your faces off.

How funny is it here, that Hondo professing his support of Vietnam War Vets when the same combat Vietnam War Vets are pursuing HONDO for his real identification…. his real name and job..

At this very moment, several of the stolen valor terrorists hereon are being served restraining orders and lawsuits by the real deal Vietnam War Veterans…

NOTICE: Since the Vietnam War Veterans have been meta/file following these millennial soldiers and marines back to their military servers,it sure is getting quiet here.? Ol’ Jonn-Jonn has been wrestling with CROCS… NOT… Vietnam War Vets is the truth.

HONDO, someday you will answer to a Vietnam War Vet by yourself… Are you ready for that..? You better be, because the Vietnam War I was in.. everybody who shot me, is dead… I won the Vietnam War I was in.

Now we have young punks who were sucking their mama’s tits when I walked in the jungles, the real killing fields. Now you are all here to chide those who you write about..

You are losers in this ain’t hell.us shithole sucking off the Vietnam War after all these years. decades.

SHAME UPON THOSE WHO STILL HARASS AND DISHONOR THE VIETNAM WAR VETERANS OF THE ELITE AIRBORNE RANGERS AFTER ALL THESE DECADES.

Die in hell Jonn-Jonn and his truckle HONDO, the invisible man.. or woman…

OWB

Eat you own young much, there, stupid?

Better report for another adjustment of your meds. The current combination obviously isn’t working. ‘Course, your regime of self-medication never has worked in a positive way.

Carry on. You seem to like spending all your energy in pursuit of the Hollywood version of the Viet Nam vet instead of contributing positively to the world. There always seem to be a few.

Marine_7002

*yaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn* SSDD from ShOrTbUs41.

“At this very moment, several of the stolen valor terrorists hereon are being served restraining orders and lawsuits by the real deal Vietnam War Veterans…”

Pure, 100% Grade-A unadulterated bullshit.

OAE CPO USN Ret

“Die in hell…”

Ya know, using the same thought process as your partner Daniella, err Daniel A Bernath, then wouldn’t that be a *cue dramatic music* A Death Threat?

Hmmmm, no one has heard from you or Daniel-san in a while. Are you helping him fly N262WS cross country?

I’ve written a little poem.

You with your drunk flying skills,
Him with his pain pills,
Make sure you have filled out a will,
In the event that you fly into a hill.
Burma Shave.

MCPO NYC USN Ret.

That was profound …

LIRight

I was a little busy over the weekend and missed this entry by this troll obviously still shooting the Saigon heroin….IF he, or it was there….I would imagine his MOS was more akin to supply, or perhaps clerk typist.

Long Range Patrol?? LOL, my ass! I knew a couple of LRRPS from back in the day and you pal ain’t one of them.

LIRight

Hondo…thank you for the follow up.

My sincere apologies to supply NCO’s and clerk typists wherever they may be.

Imagine having an honorable career in the US Army only to shoot yourself in the foot multiple times and earning a well deserved reputation within these pages as an ASSHOLE!

I’m just shaking my head.

Old Trooper

Thank God you don’t speak for all Vietnam Combat Vets, Wittgenfeld, because you are talking out of your ass (no suprise there). You think your 12 months in Vietnam were so much worse than what our brave men and women have gone through in Iraq and Afghanistan? What a delusional fucking douchenozzle you are.

The stupid is too strong in you to even attempt to repair. Now; don’t go away mad, just go away, fuckstain. Plus, you ain’t as tough as you think you are. But, I forgot; you’re a legend in your own mind.

Sparks

Shortbus WindowLicker41 I can’t believe you showed up on this thread! It is to honor men who served, specifically in Vietnam. It goes to show you have no respect or honor for your brothers from then. Only for yourself. But then again you life is all about you isn’t it? All about what you say you did and accomplished. I hear none of the usual I hear from my brothers from Vietnam. That is, when asked, they all talk about the great men they served with, be they dead, wounded or maimed and little or nothing about themselves. I knew you were dumber than a dog’s foot but you just showed, again, how your little mind and giant ego spin around nothing and no one except you and you alone. GFY and then GFY!

Mustang2LT

Yeah ShOrTbUsWiNdOwLiCkEr69 and after yer done doing that, GFY again and then go get your jollies on lemonparty.org (NSFW).

Sparks

Mustang2LT…Well, thanks for the lemonparty.org heads up Sir!!! I didn’t know what it was and not knowing what to expect I looked at it. I have now punctured one of my eyes out with a dull pencil and will be heading to the laundry room for bleach to pour in my ears and nose, hoping it makes it into my brain. Thanks again LT. 😀 For any of you others who have had the joy of NOT seeing it as yet…I would suggest you don’t. 😀

Fjardeson

Is this another post from a spandex clad alcoholic?

ChipNASA

Which one?!?!?

😀 😀 😀

cato

Last year I was in a grocery store wearing a ball cap with the Eagle, Globe and Anchor.
A young man in his early 30’s walked up to me and asked “are you a Viet Vet”?
I was dumbfounded and was at a loss for words, I responded, “Yes, Sir”.
He shook my hand and said thanks for your service to our country. The exchange lasted 10 to 15 seconds, but had a lasting impression.
That was first time in 45 years that I had heard these words with sincerity.

Sparks

Hondo…Just read your article this morning. It is absolutely spot on. Thank you sir. Thank you very much from someone it means a lot to.

ex-Army doc

Hondo, you nailed it. I’ve shared that view of “Walking on a Thin Line” for years.

When I think about the Vietnam veterans I know, I don’t see broken people. They have good careers in financial services, law, medicine, sales, public safety, teachers. They have good days and bad days, a normal part of being human They are far removed from the mass media stereotype of homeless, violent, or seriously mentally ill.

This was another great TAH post that made my day. The recognition and respect in Hondo’s words above is not heard enough.

Sparks

ex-Army doc…Thank you for your comment. That was my experience upon returning home and that of the overwhelming majority of those I knew. We went to school, work or both. Started families and went on with a life I was thankful to have been able to return to unwounded and whole. Life became normal again. Vietnam became just a part of it. It was my future, which I had to enjoy that so many didn’t, for which I am so thankful for each day. Because so many laid down their lives there or were forever maimed. Many of them who returned wounded and maimed did even more with their lives than I could ever have accomplished. I hold them in the highest regard for their tremendous courage. I also hold my younger brothers who came home from Iraq and Afghanistan and went through the same ordeals and struggles in the same highest of esteem. Many to overcome great odds and adversities to became people I admire so greatly today. God bless all our troops from ever era in which they served. I am proud and humbled to be one them.

MGySgtRet

My father came home from Vietnam, went on to a successful career in the Marine Corps and then took the training he received in the Corps and was extremely successful post military. And this was the story of all of his buddies he served with. My “Uncles”. Some of the greatest men I ever knew who had a major influence on me and my chosen profession.

It pains me to see the media trying to stir up the same old shit about “crazy veterans”. I am trying to figure out the agenda. Is to keep us from legally owning firearms? Is it to further erode our earned benefits?? Keep us from political office? Just don’t understand the need to run down those who have done so much for this country.

OWB

Yes, it is all that and more. They are still clinging to the old commie ideology, or are useful idiots to those who are. Since veterans represent mostly all that is good about this country, they simply must be neutralized in their ability to take care of themselves and others.

Same philosophy applies to other segments of society as well. Ya get a lot of bang for your subversive bucks by fracturing a country’s ability to sustain and protect itself.

bman

Just returned from the 3rd. bgd. 82nd Airborne reunion. 46 years ago we were all in Vietnam. Man, those guys sure looked old, but seemed well adapted to civilization.

Sparks

bman…Ain’t it the truth! The faces I see in my memory are all still young, frozen in time. Then when I have met a guy from back then I think, “wow he got old!”. Then, of course, I have to go look in the mirror for my own little, reality check.

Sparks

Hondo…Yes. Looking in the mirror still reminds me…I am here. Thank you for this article Hondo.

Alemaster

Finest men I ever knew were the ones I flew with in the 129th AHC. Welcome home brothers. regards, Alemaster

3/17 Air Cav

HONDO……great piece of writing.

I remember going to Vietnam. We had a layover in Hawaii, while in the air terminal, two kids about fifteen came up to me. Started giving me a hard time about going to Vietnam. I remember telling them “Do you really think I want to be going there” then told them to get out of my face!

Spent my year there, came home, got discharged, was back at school within two weeks. Kept my mouth shut and got on with life.

calfirefobs

Some of the best firefighters I ever worked with were Viet Nam veterans, brave beyond belief, compassionate, and rarely spoke of what they experienced.

Here’s hoping our Iraq and Afghanistan vets don’t suffer the same vile treatment as our elder veterans did.

Poetrooper

Hondo, thanks for that. I was an infantry NCO with the 101st in Vietnam 65-66. Luckily, when I went home to get married and earn a degree on the G.I. Bill, home was West Texas where support for the war was wider and support for the troops almost universal in spite of what the leftist media were trying to do to us. Here’s an excellent account of that media campaign by noted military historian and Marine Vietnam veteran, Mackubin T. Owen’s:

http://ashbrook.org/publications/oped-owens-99-60s/

ohio

The dirty little secret every combat veteran of every war has to deal with is that battle is probably the most exciting, exhilarating thing he will ever do in his life. We, as a society, send out our young men and young women, to fight, and then we (as veterans) are expected to come home and go back to being good peaceful citizens. And you know what? Most of us do. But we can’t forget.
Not all scars show.

Poetrooper

Ohio, you touched on a truth seldom recognized or addressed. In a combat zone the normal rules and regulations become secondary to the mission. As a buck-sergeant, I was able to fly all over Vietnam with a letter of authorization from a battalion commander looking for CBR equipment lost in the unit’s many re-assignments. Most times, I never had to show the letter to the aircraft crew chief; it was, “Come on Sarge, get your ass aboard.”

I was amazed at the ease of it and thought then it was a system ripe for ripping off for those so inclined. And they were there believe me, too sadly in our NCO corps.

I walked into a CP tent at Phan Rang where a supply sergeant had set up a bar with virtually every hard liquor you could find in an officers’ club stateside. When I stepped up to the plank bar to order a drink, this SSGT actually pulled back his left sleeve where he bore an array of expensive watches and tried to sell me one.

That’s the kinda shit a clever NCO can get away with in a combat zone where the normal rules and oversights are relaxed.

Excuse me for being a cynic but I’ve been there, seen it all, and have had to absorb it all into what I am now, old, cranky and distrusting of too many of my fellow men.

MCPO NYC USN Ret.

Hondo … Always good writing and spot on!

1stCavRVN11B

Excellent piece Hondo. Thanks.

MCPO Ret. in TN

The only way to make “LoNg RaNgE PaTrOL 41” shut up is to make a bet with him – Bet him a mouthful of piss and let him hold the stakes!!

streetsweeper

I approve of your line of thinking and therefore granting my official *stamp of the broom*