Millenials and jobs
Ex-PH2 sends us a link from NBC News which reports that which we already know. Recent college grads holding their bright and shiny new diplomas grasped tightly in their smooth, unscarred forepaws aren’t well-suited for the job market.
This is a tough job market for millennials, those born between the early 1980s and 2000. The unemployment rate in March for recent college graduates was 12.2 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. A study by Accenture found that roughly 40 percent are employed in jobs that don’t require a college degree.
[…]
In that survey, State of St. Louis Workforce 2013, a lack of communication skills, a poor work ethic and a lack of critical thinking and problem solving were the biggest shortcomings of the job applicants they were seeing. ” ‘Soft skills’ once again far outpaced technical skills such as math and computer skills as the most lacking in the workforce,” the study concluded.
Of course, most of us know that most jobs really don’t require a college education anyway. The job from which I recently retired required that I have a diploma when I applied, but I didn’t use anything I learned in college to do that job. Of course, neither did I learn anything in college that I hadn’t already learned in high school two decades before. That’s education inflation.
High schools have pretty much stopped teaching and become a socialization process. So much so that colleges have a large portion of their freshmen students in remedial skills programs – much like the military has had to do, as well (In the Army, we called it Basic Skills Education Program). And of course, the sirens’ song for parents is that unreasonably hallowed college degree for their children.
But that’s not what the article is about. Well, not exactly. I looked up to college students…until I taught some of them at ROTC. They develop bad work habits in college because their teachers let them get away with stuff that no employer ever would. I once heard a student plead with a teacher to delay his midterm exam (which was scheduled for that day) because he’d been up all night at the frat house working over the pledges. Of course, the teacher acquiesced.
The job I just left paid a lot of money and promotion potential was very high because it was tedious – we edited federal regulations, about the driest crap in the world to spend your life doing. But, I started at $10/hour and retired at $40/hour after nearly 15 years, rolling over a fairly large 401k. And, after a training period and the technology catching up, I worked from home every day. But we had new employees who would come to work the first day and we’d never see them again after a rigorous selection process – because it wasn’t as exciting as it sounded to be a Writer/Editor at the National Archives. But I got out of your way, so take a shot at it.
In another article at Yahoo News about the unemployment rate which went down today, they explain why that news isn’t particularly good when it closely examined;
Below the headline both average wages earned and work-week duration were unchanged, but the participation rate fell to 62.8%. It’s the lowest participation since 1978, highlighting concerns that the economic recovery is largely a statistical game of smoke and mirrors. Participation is a widely watched number though it’s hard to say exactly what it’s supposed to be given the skewing impact of retiring baby boomers.
“Like all these reports there’s something here for everyone,” says Zach Karabell of Envestnet. “800,000 people evaporated from the labor force. You have continual participation going down and a lot of these jobs are ill-paid and tough to live on. I do hope that in some sense the conversation shifts from jobs to what are the quality of these jobs and what kind of wages (are being earned).”
So, as bad as the current employment climate is, it’s not changing very much anytime soon.
If I was young again and starting out, I’d take Mike Rowe’s advice and go to a trade school instead of getting my degree in Indonesian Interpretive Dance. My degree is actually in History and Political Science – about as useful as Indonesian Interpretive Dance, actually, unless you’re going into the education field.
By the way, while I was adjusting to the job market and finding my niche in the Machine, my retirement pay, and Tricare, however skimpy that was, kept us alive. So don’t rule out the military. Despite what some folks at Foreign Policy might argue, you learn good work habits that translate well to college and the work world, while your peers languish in college, making excuses to their teachers why they can’t do something.
If you were an employer, who would you rather hire? Now if we can only beat that PTS stigma thing.
Category: Economy
Holy hell, by their definition I’m a millennial. What sorcery is this? I worked hard to finally achieve ‘grumpy old man’ status and now the press lumps me in with a bunch of kids who need to stay the hell off of my goddamn lawn.
My parents wanted me to go to college. And I was expected to do it just like they did: by working to afford it. They didn’t save one nickel toward my higher education — that was MY problem. My first job was a minimum wage, no benefits position as a Nurse’s Aide.
It took me awhile, but I got my degree. But it wasn’t the college that taught me hard work and dependability and honesty and some of the harder facts of life; it was showing up five nights a week at 11pm to work with sick people for eight hours a night. And I’m glad I did it that way, too.
Lol! ugh, I was born in ’81, does that make me ones of these people? The Army definitely showed me what a real work ethic is all about but sadly my communication skills tend to revolve more around “FYTW and GTFO” when talking to my collegiate peers. But I’m certain that’s the infantry life showing through to the whiners and I’ll stop talking salty at some point..
Actually, yes. My baby daughter was born in 1981. So….
Haha, my daughter was born in 82, I was a SSG. These darn kids – pretending to be old and wise. 🙂
Jonn I couldn’t agree with you more. I also got my degree in History and Political Science and it is a pretty useless degree. When I was in school I also couldn’t stand my fellow students. Bunch of pamperd whiners. I would also laugh when they would complain about the professor not handing out a study guide and claiming that “it wasn’t fair” to not distribute a study guide for an exam. I too would follow the Mike Rowe advice and study a trade. You can make a really good living working in the trades and those are in demand right now. The skilled workers to fill those positions is lacking. But what can you expect when the current political class thinks everyone that doesn’t have a gender studies degree is an uneducated hick.
Thanks, Climb. I should have added that if you want to be successful at anything, do what no one else is doing. It works for investing as well as work. If you look around you and everyone is scared to buy stocks, buy stocks! If everyone is buying a house, hold off a few years. If no one wants to do a particular job, do that one. If everyone is going to college, go to a trade school. If no one is doing what you’re doing, that’s where the growth potential is.
Indonesian Interpretive Dance? Oh, geezo Pete, could you post a spew alert?
B.A. in Modern Languages. French, Spanish, and German. Extra post-grad credit hours in Fine Art.
What did I do for a living? Photography; special effects photography; prepress graphics production; property & casualty insurance broker; A/R clerk (best job of all, 18 years of it).
How much did I use French, Spanish or German? On the bus. At the driveup at McD’s. When I could actually get a copy of ‘Le Monde’. When Hondo hits me up here for some Deutschsprachen. That’s about it.
One of the local colleges is offering a 6-month commercial trucker’s licensing program, including truck/diesel mechanics, as well as a separate and complete diesel engine (trains) mechanics program.
In this work atmosphere, I’d go to trade school in a heartbeat.
They are all handi-capped. They can only use one arm to do any anything, because the iPhone is glued to one hand. They can’t change a flat tire. And they can’t work because their parrents didn’t force them out at early age (6 or 7) … “Go get a job and earn some money”.
Born in 81, BA – History/Poli Sci. Putting that to great use managing a fleet of over-the-road truckers.
I would have thought such degrees would be useful either in academia or a think tank.
Other than community colleges, most of academia generally won’t usually anyone with a Bachelor’s degree, other than perhaps as a lab assistant or some type of administrative support. And they don’t treat anyone with “just” a Masters’ degree very much better.
Think tanks are much the same, except a Master’s degree might get you in the door – if it’s from the correct school and in a field in which they have a need.
Yeah the University of Arkansas at Fort Smith isn’t really screaming with prestige. Plus I would have to abandon my jaded anti-government cynicism and pretend like I respect politicians as human beings.
Ex-PH2 thanks for this and Jonn thanks for writing it up. I learned my work ethic on the farm. It was finely honed by the military. I went to college on the G.I.Bill. I could not believe my fellow non-veteran students and their lack of initiative, planning, discipline and just plain things such as, being on time. In recent years I have hearing more and more about a degree being offered in what is called, “Communications”. Not sure about it. Supposedly it is to prepare one to be in light journalism, ad, TV, radio, print or as some company’s public representative. My problem is I have listened to some of these Communications students from the local university and…they can’t speak! They can’t form coherent sentences, pronounce common words correctly or speak without continual verbal fillers such as “uh” and “like”. I hate that word as I hear it used now. Also, listening to them repeat a conversation is a true brain puzzle. It is filled with phrases such as, “well she goes” and then “he goes” and then “she’s like” and “so I’m just like all…whaaatevveeerr!” No kidding these are young college students seeking a degree in Communications! Something tells me it has the value if Jonn’s “Indonesian Interpretive Dance” or as we use to call it “Underwater Basket Weaving”.
As the maitre d’ said in “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off”…”I weep for the future”.
And how much debt have these grads accumulated while chasing that sheep skin so they can ask me if I want my combo super sized?
This is one of the best books available today regarding the education bubble. http://www.amazon.com/Worthless-Aaron-Clarey-ebook/dp/B006N0THIM
I’m currently at a 4 year University after 5 years in the Marine Corps, and I can tell you higher education is absolutely disgusting right now. There is no discipline from the kids here, no actual desire for education, and absolutely no knowledge of basic skills. They are satisfied with a C in their classes because that’s what allows them to keep financial aid. I can’t imagine whats going to happen when they go to a real employer and a C doesn’t cut it.
I take C’s in the classes that I passed in high school because I’m an idiot that hates price gouging busy work. I get A’s in sciences, business Japanese and Chinese.
I hate most of my fellow students. Actively taunted the hippie that marked a Sikh as a Muslim because he wore a Turban too.
Schooling’s gotten as awful as typing this up on a phone.
I’m an electrician and machinist too though.
CLEP’ed my AS while in uniform, got my Aeronautics BS from Embry-Riddle (Airplane-U!) the night school route. Got accepted to Johns Hopkins for a MS in Systems Engineering, but since I was already doing SE as my day job I waved that off. My degree was useful in opening the door to a GS Project Engineer position on the P-8A Poseidon program, but that’s about it. My Navy experience is far more valuable.
I did the CLEP route when I was overseas. The MWR simply got boring after the first week in country, so I went to the education center and that is were I basically stayed for the rest of my tour on any down time.
As John has stated above, take the jobs that nobody else wants. That is what I do. Both my employers on average hire 50 new people evry quarter. Out of those 50, we may get three to five that are the gems to keep.
I CLEP’d my first year and got two years of language credit for Spanish by CLEP from learning the language in the bars on “J” Street in Panama. Being a drunk, horny private paid off in that regard.
I learned REAL Spanish on the bus. I keep it going at my goto restaurant, because on Thursdays and Fridays, Maria is the waitres to go to and she will not let me use Ingles.
You have 3 basic types of college students:
-The Aristocrats: Children of the elite enrolled in Ivy League schools. Mummy and daddy’s connections hook them up with a nice job after grad. The Obamas fit in this group.
-The Professionals: People who are actually there for the whole ‘learning’ thing. An all nighter for them usually revolves around actual school projects. Some are there for good (future doctors, engineers, scientist), others for evil (lawyers).
-The Whatevers: Kids who are at school because that’s what you’re supposed to do- and partying. No idea of what they want to study, and don’t have the drive or smarts for the hard stuff. Thus, the prevalence of fluffy BS studies and useless degrees.
You don’t have to tell me the job market is bad. I’m an honorably discharged SF guy with 2 degrees and I have been applying for everything from police to night loader at target…and nothing…
Steve: ask Jonn to give me your email. I have nothing going now but a buddy might have. No promises.
http://wolfcreekplant.com/job-opportunities/
It’s in Kansas, but the cost of living is stupid cheap!
Steve, I don’t know what state you live in, but if you’re really interested in law enforcement, we have a lot of openings in California. I can give you some ideas if you like. Jonn has my email.
RM3, I actually am from so cal. And have been applying for LEO jobs here. Keep getting the “thanks but no thanks”.
Taking big blows to the old ego…Especially when the 21 year old that has never been out of the state gets hired over you.
Steve, Check Wyoming. The Wyoming Highway Patrol hires a couple times a year and needs people. The next hiring cycle should be starting shortly. Also if you pass the initial POST test you will get invites from other agencies in Wyoming. Just look on thier website under recruiting. I was going there till I got an offer from Montana. BTW, I am over 40 and that was not a hindrance in the hiring they actually want people with life experience who can make decisions on their own.
Duuuude! Like, what does it really matter, Dude? Like, Dude, my Mom’s basement crib is warm and, like, has internet and HD TV and, like, she fixes me food. So, Dude, like, chill.
BTW, Dude, I’m 70+ with an MBA from a mega SEC University and still have never, like, used Algebra. Peace, Out.
Dude my job and education was like 2 years ago.
I’ll drop my Dude shit for a moment. I write proposals for a defense contractor now and then. They are JTTP/DOTMLPF kinds of stuff: SOF, sniper defense, IED detection, etc. I need to bid those kinds of folks. But I can’t because the Govt requires them to have fancy degrees. I argue that these kinds of folks have been busy killing bad guys for the last decade and haven’t had the opportunity to spend time in a class room and the shit they learn in a classroom isn’t relevant anyway.
I could bid Chevy with his “PhD” and they’d be happy. End rant. Over.
Nah Chevy. I was BS’ing. The govt won’t accept your diploma mill PhD. Not on the approved list Dude. Plus, you’re an asshole that I’d never bid for ANY job because you have zero skills except Fromage Taster.
SJ, I’ve heard rumor that he is also one of the worlds finest felchers. Just a rumor, I haven’t seen his diploma on the “evidence” page yet.
Coming home from the store, there was a large billboard on the highway with a plea for diesel mechanics. How long does it take to learn that stuff? A year? 18 months? 2 years? Rail traffic is increasing.
Take the jobs nobody wants. Damn straight!!!
Big money in the trades! Nothing like having a degree(s) and two or three trades under the belt. Like military trained personnel. WOW what a concept!
DUDE!
I wish somewhere between 14 years of age and 25 someone would have introduced me to shop and wood working. By the time I was 26 I was too far into my college career to quit. Now at 30, and with student debt, it might be a pipe dream to get into things like furniture making and wood working. Oh to dream.
The world always needs Brewers, though. Right?
What happened to teaching shop and carpentry and auto repair in high school? And cooking and sewing (home ec)?
Why are those things seen as useless when that is where jobs and self-sufficiency begin?
I learned those during HS, from my dad. First car was a non-running beater we towed home and he taught me how to get it back in business. Anything in the house broke, Dad sat me next to the toolbox: “Shut the fuck up, watch, and learn.” It must have paid off, I haven’t had to bring in a contractor or tech for a household repair in a long time.
Good call on the Mike Rowe video! I saw that two days, and couldn’t agree more. I was going to school on the GI Bill to be a teacher. Long story short, I dropped that, and got into the energy field (nuclear, but they’re all booming right now). I make not quite triple what a teacher makes, have more time off, and I don’t have to worry about going to jail for thunder-choking someone’s precious little crown jewel.
For people looking for a job: most nuclear plants are between 20-30 years old, which means the entire industry is retiring. The plant I’m at is looking at a 45% retirement rate over the next three years. The pay and benefits are through the roof, a lot of jobs don’t require a degree, and you can get qualified for a lot of jobs through a tech school in two years or less. One other thing is most are very vet friendly, as a lot of the reactor operators come out of the Navy. Along with welders, like Mike Rowe mentioned, I’ve also heard that wind turbine repair guys are basically setting their own salaries.
I can’t complain, I have a mill job where I earn more money than i would have if I had completed my Biology Degree, and i make more than my roommate I had in Kuwait, who has a master’s in Psychology. If I was to do it again, I’d train to be a Millwright and a Machinist, employers are STARVED for people properly trained in those crafts!
So, all the jobs went to China and south Asia, huh? Right.
No one has a job but everyone manages to buy the newest iphone and have a 1000 satellite channels.
Why are we broke again?
Glad I’m a Seventies child… I dropped out of high school and began learning trades. Started with footer work (admittedly, laying rebar and pouring concrete doesn’t take much technical expertise) and dabbled with framing and gutters, but found a calling of sorts in the mechanical trade. Started with trailers before moving to Cadillacs and finally onto material handling equipment.
I might be making close to $30/hr by now, had I stayed in that line of work. When the time comes to hang up the combat boots my experience will be negligible, but I am hoping that the experience coupled with a degree or two and military experience will at least be competitive as a service manager or parts manager.
Fortunately, some Baton Rouge schools have excellent welding and trade programs, with some of the better students graduating to walk into a $28/hr job at a refinery or plant.
Glad I’m a Seventies child… I dropped out of high school and began learning trades. Started with footer work (admittedly, laying rebar and pouring concrete doesn’t take much technical expertise) and dabbled with framing and gutters, but found a calling of sorts in the mechanical trade. Started with trailers before moving to Cadillacs and finally onto material handling equipment.
I might be making close to $30/hr by now, had I stayed in that line of work. When the time comes to hang up the combat boots my experience will be negligible, but I am hoping that the experience coupled with a degree or two and military experience will at least be competitive as a service manager or parts manager.
Fortunately, some Baton Rouge schools have excellent welding and trade programs, with some of the better students graduating to walk into a $28/hr job at a refinery or plant.
One of the greatest lies foisted on the American public is that higher education is for everyone. It isn’t. Unfortunately, the lie has been so woven into society that people who are very bright and very capable are not evem considered for many jobs for want of a sheepskin. My advice to young people is this: Unless you have found work you thoroughly enjoy doing and can see yourself doing for years to come, find a way to get a college degree. It is better to have the job choices that a college degree provides and choose, or your own, to drive a truck or perform some menial labor for a living, than it is to have such work dictated by circumstance. Of course, the larger question is what one wants from life. If it’s a big house, nice cars, bangles and baubles, and so forth, seeking those things severely limits one’s job or career choices too. And, in the end, who wants an epitaph that reads, “He was a miserable soul, but he owned a lot of stuff.”
Many of these skills are not taught in college. Problem solving, critical thinking, communication, etc.
The process is more along the lines of indoctrination as opposed to education.
Even at the Graduate level.
Its a fucking joke. And when you call out faculty, they are beside themselves. Just like I told a certain faculty member the other day, if you will not teach your staff professional development, I will.
Just because you have a PhD does not mean you have arrived.
I forgot punctuality. control, courtesy, common sense and accountability.
IN high school, they used to teach job skills like bookkeeping, typing, shorthand, carpentry/woodworking, mechanics, auto repair, cooking, sewing, ag-related skills.
Those were practical and job-related. If you wanted to go to college, you still had the shop classes that would clue you into what was wrong with your car. One of the mechanics at the auto dealer where I take my car for work is my age, is not planning to retire, and can fix anything from a hybrid engine to a 1932 Ford. Learned it in high school and on the job, but also takes update training through Ford.
And he told me he will likely not ‘retire’ because he’d have to quit doing something he loves to do.
Oh, yeah – the inducer motor that drives the preheating system for my furnace kipped out yesterday, so my furnace won’t run now. It’s going to warm up today, so I won’t need it, anyway. But this means that in the fall, I’ll have to have the HVAC guy come and replace the malfunctioning part and next year get a new furnace. And yeah, when I talked to the guy who owns the shop (which has several outlets), he said jobs in that field are going wanting for people to fill them.
There are plenty of jobs, but not for people who don’t have a clue or any training or skills, and think that hauling logs is beneath them.
EX-PH2 … Many of those valauble skills based classes are gone and replaced with classes like:
1st Grade: Strange danger!
2nd Grade: Why Billy has 2 mommies!
3rd Grade: If your parents spank you … Call 911!
4th Grade: Dodge ball is bad and everyone should get a trophy for NOT playing it.
5th Grade: Wearing a tee-shirt in the Unites States of America with the Flag of the United States of America on it can potentially offend some illegal aliens.
6th Grade: Proper condem use for boys and proper female controception for girls.
7th Grade: We live in a good world, war is bad and Christianity is even worse.
8th Grade: Pre-mature family planning.
I will review high school later … I have a wee bit of a head ache after BB this post!
Too many of today’s young Sparkle Pony Snowflakes are taught that the World owes them everything because they’re breathing, thus today’s young snotblobs run around demanding $10 an hour to fry hamburgers, and they think they’re automatically owed a six figure salary and keys to the Executive Washroom the moment they graduate from college on the seven year plan with a degree in gender studies because of all the debt they racked up in student loans to get that degree!
I called out a Phd type at Rutgers when he said, “Reaganomics does not work” during a basic 101 economics class. He when on to say how govt intervention and influence on both supply and demand will always permit the population to get what they need.
My bullshit right hand went straight up, as the balance of the class 10 years my junior watched and listened.
“Are you suggesting that the populations of developing third world nations, without free flowing capitalist economies, are getting what they need? Are you suggesting that all known therories of basic economics are not valid and supply and demand side economic policies under the control of government is the way to produce a viable and highly effective economy? Two more questions, have you ever had a job in banking and finance on the corporate level and have you ever travelled to a third world country?”
SILENCE …
I received several high 5’s after class … The others probably had no idea what had transpired as a exposed the Socialist Policies 101 professor!
I had a straight A average till then and got a B in the end …
I agree that the trades are an often over looked skill are, but at the same time they actually involve something called work. On the subject of college degrees not all are worthless, mechanical engineering, comp sci, electrical engineering are in high demand just to name a few.
Isnala, I understand what you are saying, but, and this is a big but, because of the explosion in HB2 visa’s, even a STEM based degree is not a guarantee that you will land that nice cushy desk job pulling a fat pay check at the end of the week.
Mike Rowe now has a good slogan that he is now pushing for the good of this nation. “Work Smart And Hard”. Today, this is what is going to get you steady employment. If you are reluctant to roll up your sleeves and do the dirty work, then you will put yourself at a major disadvantage because that engineer from India will definitely step up to the plate and happily do what is required because the American counterpart with that degree in whatever engineering thinks that manual labor is beneath them.
OIF ’06-’07-’08 Well said. My only added point is that the engineer I talk to in India about, for instance, Microsoft issues, is working for far less than the same engineer in the US would even interview for.
Wasn’t debating that, just saying that if one does go to college, they should be getting a degree in something marketable was all.
Isnala…I agree. Degrees in the sciences and engineering fields are in high demand. Degrees in worthless course work with a diploma stating basically “I showed up” are all the rage because the demand next to nothing of the student. The trades, good jobs and many, very high paying and in demand in the growing services industry. You added the big kicker though…that ugly word WORK. That is what most are trying to avoid. Pay me for being…well…me. Not for actually WORKING and producing much of anything. But a very good point in you comment. Thank you.
I know a couple kids out here going to trade schools to get welding and diesel mechanic tickets in about two years. At least one has a job waiting for him already when he graduates with a starting pay north of $60,000. The energy trade especially in the Bakken fields needs lots of welders and mechanics.
As for me I cashed in a military provided Masters in international relations and 21 years in the Army to become a Highway Patrol Trooper out west. Most of the skills I learned being a leader and a follower in the military apply directly to the job.
Jonn, I think we got the same degrees. I did modern American history and American politics. Qualified me to work as a cop for the past 2 years and now I work for an eagle aviary that has no educational requirements what so ever. Greatest job ever, but my degree is a total waste
My degrees are worthless.
Our planing group had a “All Mach, no vector” boss who would parrot the newest management slogan of the week. He told us “Work smarter,not harder” As the resident smart ass I was forced to retort with, Boss, that only works for smart people. Now, go work harder.”. He hated me, but I was still there when they broke him back.
Have felt sorry for the youngsters coming of age for quite a while. When we older posters grew up, the possibilities were nearly endless, and most of us were encouraged to get out there and claim our part of the pie with a bit of education and a lot of hard work.
Sure, hard work still produces positive results, but wading through the propaganda to get any education at all seems now to be limited to the very few who are already mature enough to manage it. It’s a crazy system now – dreaming is still OK as long as it is an approved dream with limited parameters.