Sailors marched with buckets of crap on their heads
Pinto Nag sends us a link from NBC which reports that two more sailors lost their jobs for allowing members of the crew of the USS Jason Dunham to march nineteen female sailors with buckets of excrement on their heads;
Cmdr. Kenneth Rice, executive officer of the USS Jason Dunham, and Master Chief Petty Officer Stephen Vandergrifft were found guilty in non-judicial proceedings, the U.S. Fleet Forces Command said in a statement.
An investigation found that on Oct. 15, a chief petty officer ordered 19 enlisted women to take human waste out of two nonworking toilets and place it in buckets, the Navy said. The chief petty officer then marched 13 of them with the buckets down to the pier to dispose of the waste in portable toilets.
They’re calling the incident “hazing”, but I’m calling it stupid. Not only in the current environment, but even in my long-by-gone days, I probably wouldn’t have allowed it to happen to all-male troops – unless they had purposely clogged the toilets.
Category: Dumbass Bullshit
“…unless they had purposely clogged the toilets.”
I would not be surprised to discover that the ship has had an issue with a clogged CHT system. Women are told as soon as they come aboard that under no circumstances are they to flush feminine hygiene products into the system, as it creates huge problems. Dollars to doughnuts this kept occurring and the carrying of the results was done to make a point.
Yes, do blame it on women, do so.
They were not given protective clothing to wear when handling raw sewage, which is required by regulations, and there were working commodes nearby on the ship that could have been used to make the disposal properly. And if it was feminine hygiene products, then why weren’t the rest of the commodes in that section of waste facilities clogged?
Try that again, CS.
Here’s a little more info on that:
Nineteen women had been ordered by a chief petty officer to clean out the toilets near their berthing units. The toilets had been used while the ship’s sewage system was partially shut down for maintenance that day.
Protocol dictates any sailor handling raw sewage should wear coveralls, face shields, rubber boots and rubber gloves. Mommsen said some of the sailors were not given the proper equipment.
Here’s the link to the WaPo article for that quote: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/navy-relieves-2-of-duties-over-hazing-at-norfolk/2013/12/22/d27482ba-6b35-11e3-a5d0-6f31cd74f760_story.html
Here’s another article on the same thing: http://hamptonroads.com/2013/12/navy-fires-destroyer-leaders-after-hazing-incident
I think most readers are missing the fact that equipment was used after it had been “tagged out”.
What would have happened if the equipment had been something other than a toilet? How many sailors injured? How many dead? All because several sailors decided that they would subvert good order and discipline…..putting their preferences over the needs of the ship.
I always tell my subordinates, “you joined the military, the military didn’t join you.”
The toilets were clearly tagged out and they used them in spite of the warning. The dumbshits got what they deserved.
@4 – Exactly, Andy. The ship’s system was partially shut down for maintenance, but there were working toilets nearby. Sailors are required to clean their own heads (bathrooms, for you non-Navy types) and that includes the commodes.
But there is no reason to NOT provide these sailors with protective clothing, which IS a requirement, or make them take the raw sewage to the portapotties on the dock when there were working commodes in the same area. And assuming that it’s because of feminine hygiene products, as did @1, is saying that the commodes in the men’s section never clog up.
The whole thing is stupid all around.
The firing was due to the march to the end of the pier as hazing not for making them clean the head according to the article I read a couple of days ago. Frankly this seems like an over reaction to me. They don’t say what the Chief who did it to them got as a punishment. I wonder if there was more found in the investigation. Because honestly this whole thing probably could’ve been resolved by asking the Chief who did the march down the pier in a loud and public voice. “Are you fucking stupid?”
As for the lack of protective equipment, it’s usually on the shelf with the rest of the cleaning supplies kept on hand for the regular brown trout fishing expeditions that occur on ships when some jack off flushes something besides toilet paper down the crapper.
(not sure where previous comment went, so I’ll try it again.)
Gender has nothing to do with this. This is an issue of good order and discipline. This is an issue of “being in the military.”
The heads were tagged out. Sailors used the gear, despite it being tagged out (had this been anything other than a “head” Sailors would have died or been mangled).
Enlisted Leadership directs all Sailors assigned to the berthing space to clean up the mess.
Enlisted Leadership leads them, because their failure is the Leadership’s failure as well.
Personally, I’m going to ride this “hazing” pony into the sunset. “Oh, you wanted to assign me to a working party that has never included O1-O9’s or E7-E9’s? That’s hazing!”
…I think that this pony can run forever and never get tired.
“Protocol dictates any sailor handling raw sewage should wear coveralls, face shields, rubber boots and rubber gloves.” Instead of citing protocol, an actual reference needs to be cited.
NAVMED P-5010 9-17 says nothing about protective equipment. It just says use a stick longer than 4 feet for burners…..and that is as raw as can be (and it can accumulate for several days).
BTW, “raw sewage” vs radioactive water used by the crew of the aircraft carrier. Clearly the sewage is more important; it involves “hazing”.
No, not up to the level of nuclear waste, perhaps, but human waste, even your own, can be toxic. It’s proper disposal really is a health and safety issue.
Not that I understand many US Navy traditions, but seriously? This just doesn’t seem appropriate. Doesn’t matter to me the genders of those involved or what the original infraction might have been.
Sounds like somebody just didn’t want to bother with the paperwork?
hahah what is this bullshit about protective equipment when cleaning up shit?
Sounds like any run of the mill USMC working party.
I’m only going to add that when I clean my own commodes, I use gloves and disinfectant, and if either of them clogs, I pour boiling water down them before plunging them, or else I use a solvent like Bio-Clean. But if the water lines in my neighborhood are shut down, I do NOT – repeat, NOT – use the commodes, period. I have better sense than that. I go to McDonald’s
This appears to me to be a failure to communicate as well as a failure in leadership.
If the commodes were tagged as ‘OUT’ they should not have been used, period, and since there were several nearby that were usable and not tagged “OUT”, I’m trying to figure out why those that were shut down WERE used – who was the idiot there? – and why this resulted in 26 buckets of shit that could have been marched to the nearest functioning commodes for overboard discharge.
The hazing part was just plain stupid, but the use of shut down equipment was equally stupid.
Andy, if you don’t know by now that human waste can aerosolize and disperse widely when you flush the toilet, you’re missing an serious piece of info. It’s the reason you put the lid down when you flush the toilet. Don’t you know that? Why do you think your bathroom stinks when you have a bad case of whatever?
Well, I guess, I was badly a used as a child and did not even know,it. My parents made me clean our bathrooms every week without the proper equipment…
@11.
Yeah. I agree.
Do you think the Phildo was hazed at all when he went through Buds? And as a Commander of ST-4, do you think he allowed it?
It used to be you take care of your troops and they will take care of you. Safe to say all 19 of these sailors did not use the tagged toilets so why punish the innocent to make a point? That is not leadership, that is abuse of authority and an E-9 should be expected to know the difference. I wish the Master Chief well in his next career as a Wal-Mart greeter.
Club Manager, thank you for that!
You made me laugh and took away all the cabin fever I’ve generate this week from being stuck indoors.
@15 – my guess is it went something like this :
CPO – ” Ok, which one of used the shitter when you weren’t supposed to and clogged it to hell and gone?”
Enlisted personnel – “……..”
CPO – “No one wants to admit to clogging the shitter? Everyone grab a bucket.”
Right, wrong, or indifferent, that’s my guess as to how it went down.
Coincidentally, some numb nuts threw a wad of paper towels into the a urinal in the men’s head of our SCIF this morning. Not sure if that ever occurred in the women’s head. I heard rumors that they don’t have urinals in the woman’s head.
Club Manager, the article I read on the subject said it was a Chief not the Command Master Chief who ran this little detail. The Command Master Chief got canned for not policing up the Chiefs on his ship and the XO for not making sure things like that were handled. Both of them also failed to keep the CO informed which is why he still has a job. Though the Whatever happens on a ship stops with the CO rule should’ve still nailed him.
It could be argued that making the people in and around the compartments that were fouled by someone using them when they were out of order is looking out for them by teaching them a valuable lesson about ship board hygiene and policing up their shipmates on such issues. It’s not that far to the next head over on most ships. Hell on a destroyer it’s not that far to anywhere.
I really do think that this was a case of stupidity being compounded by stupidity at the investigation level and the return of the zero defect mentality.
I very seldom comment on many of the blogs that show up. but I don’t give a flying shit what any of you say, but I think both Cmdr. Rice and Master Cheif Rice got just what was due them, my self I would have placed a Full bucket of Crap on each of their heads and made them Double Time around the Head. These women don’t have to be treated like this by no means, their service personal, lets treat them as such. Enough said.
Sam (From Iowa) (Where the Tall corn grows)
Looking and looking, but can’t fine any reference in the article to them marching with buckets of crap on their heads….
FROM the head, TO the head, perhaps. Not ON their heads.
😉
Pretty shitty deal all around.
“or make them take the raw sewage to the portapotties on the dock when there were working commodes in the same area. And assuming that it’s because of feminine hygiene products, as did @1, is saying that the commodes in the men’s section never clog up.”
If the sewage removed from the first heads clogged them what makes you think dumping that sewage in working heads won’t clog the other ones?
Its poo folks. As long as you are not eating it chances are it is not going to make you sick.
I agree with PH2 on this one. Abuse of authority.
Ahhh yes this takes me back to my enlisted days as an Air Force 3E451 Utilities Systems Journeyman (otherwise known as a “Turd Herder”). Especially when I was at BIAP (Sather Air Base) and I had to replace the lift station pump for the Brit housing trailers like 3 times because those damn limeys would get drunk and flush stuff like t-shirts, bottle caps, and mop heads down the toilet! Obviously, General Order 1A didn’t apply to the Brits. I finally told their Sergeant Major that the next time I found anything abnormal in their plumbing, I would leave them to wallow in their poop. He was a good sport and “sorted out” his troops and even got us a box of Cubans by way of apology. However, I don’t remember using any PPE other than work gloves when we did that kind of work. Oh well, ignorance is bliss.
They used to make us clean port-a-jons back in my EM days as punishment.
To say it sucked would be an understatement.
While the retired SGM who made 30+ bucks an hour operating the “shitter truck” looked on.
Man, you could not even smoke around that stuff.
Azygos, the two commodes that were overloaded were tagged as ‘out’, meaning DO NOT USE, but they were used, anyway. They weren’t clogged up, they were shut off.
I wish I had a fucking dime every time we had to clean up shit water and herd turds with no protective equipment on ship. When we took over the Hanger the Air Force “evacuees” were staying in when Mt Pinatubo erupted we had shitters piled high with days worth of shit because those fuckers were too lazy to carry in buckets of water to flush it with. I had my platoon clean all that crap up and carry it out to a “disposal tank”.I’m glad I didn’t have any whiny little princesses crying about getting their feelings hurt. What a bunch of absolute worthless pieces of dog shit.
Hmmm. Sounds like my Chief’s initiation.
Does the crossing the equator ritual still go on? Now that sounded nasty.
Did the people who took a dump in the secured shitters deserve some EMI after a “Come to Jesus” meeting regarding violating signs/tagouts?
You betcha.
Did they deserve to be marched off the ship and down the pier rather than simply use the working heads down the p-way? Nope.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Stupidity should be painful, but not necessarily humiliating or degrading.
I don’t want you GUYS thinking that I was defending these dumbass sailors, just because they are wimmins. I definitely was not.
If they didn’t have enough sense to read the signs (if they were posted), then they have no one to blame but themselves for having to clean up the mess they made. I’d bet money they were all at fault in this. They should have known better.
It was handled incorrectly, that’s all.
@29–yes, “crossing the line”, “Bluenose”, etc., still go on. Although I’m sure they’ve been WAY toned down over the past 20-30 years.
RIP Jay. Good Marine/friend/man. As for this incident, they should all be disciplined for being idiots. Anyone involved (including the poor, helpless shit carriers). My $.02.
To quote Kevin Hart:
“You gon learn today!”