Holder’s nation of victims
The Washington Times quotes Attorney General Eric Holder today as he spoke to the NAACP about the evil “stand your ground” laws in the wake of the irrational racially-charged Zimmerman trial;
“Separate and apart from the case that has drawn the nation’s attention, it’s time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sow dangerous conflict in our neighborhoods.”
In an address to an NAACP convention, Holder said it’s time to question laws that “senselessly expand the concept of self-defense.”
The attorney general said the country must take a hard look at laws that contribute to “more violence than they prevent.”
Such laws “try to fix something that was never broken,” he said.
If Holder is looking for laws that try to fix something that was never broken, he should check out Joe Manchin’s gun laws. But, ya know, if nothing is broken, why are people actually standing their ground in the face of criminals? According to the Washington Post, “justifiable shootings” in Florida have tripled;
In the seven years since it was enacted, the Florida law and others like it have become an effective defense for an increasing number of people who have shot others, according to state records and media reports.
Justifiable homicides in Florida have tripled, according to Florida Department of Law Enforcement data. Other states have seen similar increases, FBI statistics show.
In the five years before the law’s passage, Florida prosecutors declared “justifiable” an average of 12 killings by private citizens each year. (Most justifiable killings are committed by police officers; those cases, which have also tripled, are not included in these statistics.) But in the five years after the law passed, that number spiked to an average of 36 justifiable killings per year.
They say that like it’s a bad thing.
In that article, the president of the Association of Prosecuting Attorneys complains that they have to prove a negative, that the shootings weren’t self-defense. Well, isn’t that the state’s job anyway? I guess, the Washington Post, Eric Holder and the Association of Prosecuting Attorneys want us all to run away, which in my school ground experience usually only encourages bullies to advance their attack.
It sounds to me like the Left needs a lesson in defining “justifiable”. It means that someone who needed shooting, got shot. How many of our “feel good” stories involved a crime victim needing to shoot a criminal after they called the police. Are we supposed to leave our houses to make ourselves safe, while the criminals ravage our property and our families just so we’re not “standing our ground”?
Category: Politics
And still, the troll has nothing worthwhile to add to the conversation. It continues to demand that our attention be focused upon it.
Whatever.
Hondo, that was indeed my point. I just made it in my usual round about fashion.
Oh and Holder is major shitweasle.
1953: ignorance from someone who is new to TAH is expected. Ignorance from one who claims to be an “old hand” here is not. Neither is blatant falsehood. Neither of the latter two are tolerated particularly well, either. Frankly, if you actually had spent a fair amount of time here as you imply above, it seems to me you’d know 2/17 Air Cav’s profession. (He’s made no secret of what he does for a living.) You’d also know his opinion is generally rather well respected here – as is OWB’s opinion. Each has also made little secret of their military past. I’m not going to do your homework for you here. Suffice it to say that either of them has substantially more credibility from the “been there/done that” perspective than you do based on your bio sketch above. You’ve observed others serving; they’ve actually served. The two are not equivalent. Again without going into details (which, again, would be doing your homework for you), based on his profession I think it’s safe to assume that 2/17 Air Cav is at least somewhat familiar with statistics regarding the demographics of crime, and where to obtain the details if necessary. He’s also relatively busy from time to time. I think it’s also safe to say that others providing supporting data for one side (or both sides) of a discussion here without being prompted or asked to do so is not exactly unknown here at TAH. I’m rather surprised you didn’t notice that during the time you’ve spent reading the discussions here. Regarding respect: here at TAH, respect is earned – on an individual basis – through the credibility and content of comments one makes over time. It’s also earned as well by one’s ability to make a coherent point in a civil manner. In general, it’s not obtained by acting like an arrogant tool. To date, you’ve established precious little in terms of a track record here at TAH. You’ve thus to date established precious little credibility, and earned precious little respect. The same is not true for two of the individuals… Read more »
Hondo…I am willing to concede that 2/17 and OMB are a couple of all around great guys and everyone here (except me) loves and admires them. You made your point and I have nothing further to say to either of them as long as they don’t say anything to deliberately try and provoke me.
It is not my intention to be unecessarily confrontational here, but I don’t like being labeled as a troll just because I disagree with BS when I read it and am not afraid to express that. It seems to me that this site is populated with people who have a similar attitude. I may very well be an “opininated jerk”, but from what I can see, so are the vast majority of posters on this site. How does that make me special?
Over and out. Roger Wilko. 10-4. Disengaging now.
@7: 1/3 of the stand your ground defenses in Florida are by blacks and most are successful, which, using that 1/3, means that a disproportionate number of blacks benefit from that particular law, compared to the population percentage of Florida. What Holder is suggesting would endanger more blacks than it would help.
2/17 Cav, he not my type=wrong gender. Now Ex or Julie, in fact any of the single women who grace our presence different story. I think I need to remove Julie,I think she is married. Just a sexy senior having a little fun. Joe
@54 Several links have been given to substantiate what Air Cav and OWB have said. So how is that BS?
You’re the one who showed up with your ass on your shoulders, not them. So who is “provoking” who?
@55 – particularly cogent. Considering the difficulty of trying to find hard figures on shooters of any variety by race, well said. I suspect it would not be politically correct for someone to have hard figures that said: X% of shooters are white, Y% black, Z%”identify themselves as Hispanic” etc, with a further breakdown of A% of the first X number were adjudjed justifiable, B% of Y, etc.
Hondo, is 1953 a new pen-name for Insipid?
Ex-PH2: don’t think so. Looks to be a couple hundred miles geographical separation between 1953 and Sippy the Pinhead’s last known hangouts.
— break —
Joe Williams: I think 2/17 Air Cav was referring to Rockclimbin’ Joe in that comment, not you.
Haven’t seen old Comrade Joe in a while. Wonder if something happened to him?
Is black on black murder,shootings,violence in general a problem? Yes. Who’s problem? Not the government, not the whites (although most blacks in the category of thug and criminal will profess it is the white’s fault because they are one step away from slavery…still), not society at large, as every advantage has been given to minorities possible to raise themselves above their past discrimination. It is the fault of the black community itself. When the black community respects itself enough to care for its own needs then they will change. When blacks stop calling each other the n- word then first, others will respect them more and it can have no greater effect than on the blacks themselves. To take a stand as a race, that we will be responsible, upright and take care of ourselves as we want everyone else to take care of us, then, they will come close to the beliefs of the first major 20th century black to say the same, Martin Luther King. He believed strongly in self respect and respect for your own race and your own communities. Just my humble opinion. (a bit off topic perhaps)
I forget which western it was.
Went something like “why did you shoot him?”
“he just needed killing”.
This is just another way for the O admin. to further their agenda. Stand your ground didn’t even apply in the Zimmerman cases.
@58- They have compiled data on Stand your ground in Florida. They found that blacks benefit from it at a higher rate than whites with more than 1/2 getting off if tried.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-benefit-from-florida-stand-your-ground-law-at-disproportionate-rate/
http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases
@50 If you’re implying that I was somehow doing 2/17 Cav’s homework for him – don’t. He didn’t submit any hard statistics in his original post, but he wasn’t wrong either. In your words “…I’m anxious to see [statistics], if not you’re just pulling numbers out of your ass…”
I pulled those figures to continue the discussion without the pointless rude behavior. All I did was confirm what he already said so it would appear he didn’t make anything up and might know what he’s talking about. I’m not familiar with 2/17 Cav’s background, but for the limited time I’ve been here he hasn’t been one to make stuff up.
Says 1953 to me, “You are PATHETIC, but if you want to continue to try and box with me, bring it on old timer. You’ll be in way over your head.” Well, now, we are getting somewhere. This “old timer” accepts your challenge. Is it okay if I address you as punk? What the heck, right? If old timer gets it for you, punk gets it for me. And fair is fair. As for the boxing business, I don’t do it. I’m a street fighter from way back. Just be sure to show up, punk.
makes popcorn and sits back to watch the show
Is it a fair fight? I mean, he was Junior ROTC and all. I gets sunstantive fairness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. So, yeah, it’s fair. I’m sure that he’ll want 16 oz gloves and a mouthpiece. He’s welcome to both. But a steel cup and throat protection would better serve him. The rules? There are none.
Welcome to Thunderdome
Hey 1953, here is the link that will give you all the statistical data you need to make an informed conclusion.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf
Naaa, 1953 ain’t Sippy, he’s lacking that particular confident arrogance Sippy has going for him. As someone else pointed out, just a garden variety troll.
Guess it appeared to be that ‘snippy sippy’ turdishness that we all knew so well.
Street fight, huh? I’ll take 5 on 2/17.
Retreat? Then the robber becomes a squatter or future renter who cannot be dislodged for 90 days by a court of law.
If a person/people can by law make you retreat then by law they can take everything you have without redress.
Why even be allowed to lock your door if when assaulted by home invaders you cannot stay and protect?
What if l’il baby chuckles is upstairs do you run off and leave chuckles to the mercy of the perps?
In the interest of clarity I just wanted to point out that Holder’s statement, “But we must examine laws that take this further by eliminating the common-sense and age-old requirement that people who feel threatened have a duty to retreat, outside their home, if they can do so safely.”, means he believes you should retreat if you are outside of your home, not if you are in your home.
Understanding context and a stronger grasp of grammar are important lest we sound as stupid as Holder does.
All that said, his speech was some of the worst bilge I’ve heard come out of this administration yet.
Huh, I refuse to retreat. This evokes the predator response if the prey runs then chase the prey down.Oh and happy birthday TSO. I turn 66 on the 27th of this month. Besides I live in Oklahoma where three of the “Feel Good Stories” have come from this week.Is there a bounty that I somehow missed ?Oklahoma is a castle law state. Joe