Marines teach educators about the Corps

| July 29, 2012

The LA Times reports that the Marine Corps recruiters in southern California are trying to overcome bias against them in local schools by inviting educators (and I use that term in it’s loosest sense) to an orientation;

Some teachers in the district have launched “counter recruiting” efforts, warning students of physical danger, regimentation and loss of privacy and individuality that come with military service. Others put students on “don’t call” lists.

“The U.S. continues to fight in wars that are opposed by the public, and yet the military can recruit with little opposition because working-class kids have few job options,” said Joshua Pechthalt, president of the California Federation of Teachers and a critic of the Marine Corps program.

Yeah, well, then if wars and the military in general are opposed by the public, isn’t it parents’ responsibility to conduct their own “counter recruiting” programs in their homes. It’s a perfect example of teachers not staying in their respective lanes. They are public employees who are supposed to teach students, not indoctrinate at the students’ parents’ expense.

After their hosts tell the educators to ask a lot of questions, this one pops up;

An early question from one teacher was whether recruits may someday go to war.

Dumbass. Who keeps telling people that there are no stupid questions in spite of these glaring examples?

The program seems to have created some converts;

“It’s impressive,” said William Lozoya, a music teacher and band director at San Fernando High School. “I had no idea that there are so many support programs, so many ways they can get an education or training.”

Brian Metzger, an English teacher at Highland Park High, said that counselors at his school “actively discourage anyone from enlisting. Now I can at least provide a more balanced view for students to make up their own minds.”

Miles Bonner, guidance counselor at Sun Valley High, said he planned to present military service “as a viable option that students should consider.”

Teachers are having too much effect on children’s lives if the recruiters have to recruit teachers in order to recruit Marines.

Category: Military issues, Schools

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Mike Kozlowski

…I served as a USAF Recruiter from 89 to 91 – through Desert Storm, and Kent State University was one of my schools – and clearly things haven’t gotten any better. We had lots of programs to show educators how things really worked, but in four years of trying only one ever took the option and she was already one of our strongest supporters. I can only imagine what recruiters are dealing with now.

Mike

RunPatRun

I was a recruiter in Connecticut for a number of years. I believe my school districts ‘graded’ HS Guidance Counselors on the go-to-college percentages of students in their case load.

Many were two faced, telling us how they viewed the military as a viable option while pushing their students off to college. Many of the students had no clue what they wanted to study, or why. Fortunately, many parents in my recruiting area were open minded enough to allow me in their living room to explain what the Army offered, both the good and the not-so-good.

Zero Ponsdorf

Okay Jonn… Your Sunday Silly is better than mine. There are just too many instances of school systems that consider welfare a higher calling than the military.

YMMV

Ninja R

I was involved in the workshop for five years. They’ve been conducted since at least 1998 that I can remember and probably farther back. Officer Selection Teams have one as well.

It’s a great program and has actually paid great dividends for Marine recruiters if they use the program properly by sending educators who are opposed to the Marine Corps instead of those who already support the Corps.

UpNorth

At the high school I worked at, most of the teachers had no problem with recruiters being in the school. The administration actively encouraged the kids to talk with the recruiters. The “guidance” counselors? Not many of the kids paid much attention to them, as they were clueless about life. They did push some of the kids toward college, even though we knew those kids would just be pissing mom and dad’s money down the toilet, in those cases.

arby

I’ll bet those are the same “educators” who support minors getting abortions without the parental notification. Funny how they feel a minor can make the decision to kill a fetus, but not one to join a profession where the overwhelming majority have never killed…

Civilwarrior

As a current teacher, and a former Soldier, I am appalled at the attitude that some in my profession display toward military service. Of course I can at least respect those who are openly disdainful of the armed forces, and make no bones about it. What pisses me off is when administrators and teachers pay lip service to troop support, and demonstrate through their actions that they are actually no friends to those in uniform.

Hack Stone

So, they are against a compulsory military service, because allegedly only poor kids get drafted, and it should be an all volunteer service. Then, they say that you can’t have recruiters in schools. It looks to me like they are aginsta draft, and against a voluntarily recruited military. Next time San Francisco and berkley get buried under an earthquake, I hope all those grannies in Code Pink are ready to respond.

Common Sense

“Counselor” is a misnomer, they’re really just glorified schedule pushers. Most teachers have never experience life outside of schools. They go straight from high school to college back to some other school, they just can’t imagine any other way.

My kids hated school and couldn’t wait to get out. They feel no nostalgia and aren’t planning to attend reunions when the time comes.

My youngest is currently at Air Force tech school, on leave from his job for Coca-Cola. He formed the perfect plan, joining the ANG, get his associate’s degree, then use the GI Bill to finish his education. On top of that, he gets a big bonus for his MOS, started BMT as an E3, and Coke is paying him full-time for 4 months of his absence. He really enjoyed BMT and likes tech school too and doesn’t mind the restrictions, unlike the nanny rules in high school.

Schools and teachers may not like the military, but the kids joining up always get a standing ovation at graduation in our area. This year at my nephew’s graduation, they gave an honorary diploma to a WWII Navy vet who had to drop out of school to join the fight. The kid heading off to Annapolis got to present it to him, there wasn’t a dry eye in the auditorium.

As an aside, Coke is a great place to work – decent pay, good benefits, including pay for active military duty. You get 4 months a year of full-time pay and your job back when you return. That counts for drills as well. My son makes $12.50/hr straight out of high school with no work experience.

Ex-PH2

Golly gee, it sounds like the 1970s all over again, when the pseudo-intellectual peaceniks protested against military recruiters offering ROTC scholarships on college campuses for young men students facing the draft.

I laughed myself silly when Abbie Hoffman, who led a protest at the New York Stocke Exchange in 1967 (among other things), turned up working under an assumed name as a stock broker in 1986, before he was arrested leading at protest against the CIA at UMass. The difference is that he was a leftist and completely counterculture; now, he might be labeled an anarchist.

Well, since we no longer have a draft, and a ROTC scholarship is a valid way to get through college, and the military gives you two valuable things: a work ethic and some discipline (if you pay attention), I don’t know what the objection could possibly be. I have no regrets about spending a good portion of my life in the Navy, and I still do work in my rate.

I keep in mind the doctor my mother knew, a pathologist, who received his draft notice in 1966, and was terrified of being sent to Viet Nam, when in fact, he’d probably have ended up at Walter Reed or Bethesda, or maybe even in the Surgeon General’s office because he was a pathologist, not a surgeon. He dumped his personal belongings on my mother and ran off to Canada. I hope he rotted up there.

NHSparky

I was recruiting in that area in the mid- to late-90’s. While I was a little more specialized being the Nuke recruiter, overall, I found that the very rich and very poor hand the least interest in enlisting.

Sadly, a lot of kids who could have best benefited from enlisting got so much misinformation from their parents, teachers, or counselors it was mind-boggling.

Fortunately, some of the recruiters “got it” and learned to develop excellent rapport with the math and science teachers, who by and large were far more receptive to letting us talk to their students, particularly when they realized we weren’t there just to say, “You WILL join the Navy,” but showed how what they were learning would apply in real world scenarios.

Only a few of the kids were assholes, and those were usually dealt with quite quickly. I wish I could say the same of the asshole teachers/counselors. Some were very positive on our presence, some were pretty much apathetic, and some were of the, “Don’t bother, all our kids go to college” variety.

skh.pcola

If it was revealed that local teachers in my area were being openly derogatory towards the military, I would launch a campaign to have their contracts terminated. I live in a mostly conservative region, with NAS Pensacola, NAS Whiting Field, the AF Hurlburt Field, and Eglin AFB…most people would not look kindly upon our tax dollars going to teachers that view military service as the antithesis of American values. Still, we do have pockets of raving progtards. We had an Occupy Pensacola infestation and filthy hippies are regularly seen in the public square in downtown Pensacola.

Bill C.

“An early question from one teacher was whether recruits may someday go to war.”
“Who keeps telling people that there are no stupid questions in spite of these glaring examples?”

There is no such thing as a stupid question, only good questions asked by stupid people.

Green Thumb

As much as it pains me to say this..

Good job Marine Corp!!!

Keep up the good work.

Green Thumb

Oh shit! My bad..

Marine Corps.

Please do not be angry…simple typo.

YatYas

While a Drill Instructor at MCRD San Diego from 1993 to 1995, the Marine Corps sponsored tours for educators from around the country. Most seemed impressed by the DIs and recruits, but occasionally there would be a few with a negative attitude that could not be changed.

Ben

It seems that you only want teachers to stay in their lanes when they tell students not to join the military. I’m fairly certain you have no problem with teachers talking up the military and encouraging them to join. I’ve been in for quite a while and come from a very military-friendly area, so I never had to deal with anything other than positive messages. But don’t you see the disconnect? If you want teachers to stay in their lanes, then they should say nothing at all to the students.

UpNorth

It would be nice if teachers would just “stay in their lanes”, Ben. But, lots of them don’t.

Green Thumb

@18.

You hit the nail right on the head.

NHSparky

And worse yet, Ben, not only do they “not stay in their lanes” so to speak, they base their ignorant commentary on 40-plus year old information, or shit that was never true in the first place.

Never ceased to amaze me when I told teachers/counselors (who told their students only “dummies” join up) that 1–I had a 99 AFQT, 2–was a National Honor Society grad from HS, 3–pulled 1400 on my SAT’s, 4–had a Bachelor’s Degree in Engineering, how shocked their faces looked.

CI Roller Dude

A college campus where I used to patrol as a cop before I retired wanted to ban military recuriters. Until they were told that they’d get all federal aid cut off. Opps…
One day one of the hippies was harassing 2 Marines who’d come on the campus. The hippie was really calling them names and harassing the shit out of them.
I was driving by, so I got out and made contact with the dirty hippie.
I explained 2 things to him.
#1. If those Marines wanted to, they could have ripped off the hippies head and shit down the hole.
#2. It was a crime to harass anybody because they were in the military. Since I witnessed the crime, I didn’t need the Marines to do anything.

The fucking dirty hippie left and I never saw him again—I think his aid got cut off for not going to class.

LostBoys

@2 is correct. The only grade a guidance counselor gets is “percent to college” in most school districts, even shitty ones. The joke, of course, is what actually passes for “college.” When I was recruiting a kid in our DEP in Maine bagged out because his counselor got him into college, in Nebraska, for auto body.

All that being said, I participated in this program taking teachers and guidance counselors to Parris Island in the late ’80s and it was fantastic. By the end of the week they were yelling, “Get off my bus!” every time we stopped. I actually got the editor of the Burlington (Vt.) Free Press to go on a trip and though he didn’t change his mind about war or the military he at least could admit on his editorial page, “The Marines have nothing to hide.” It might sound like faint praise, but it really was a huge step for someone who went on the trip expecting the absolute worst.

detn8r

AS a Recruiter in WV for 3 years, I had no problem getting into the schools. We were actually sought out to give presentations and host events. That being said, I do believe the education system should really get back to focusing on teaching and a lot less on personal agendas. In a three month span, I tested well over 75 high school and college students. Out of those, I had only 7 prospects score high enough to enter the military! It was so bad that I retook the ASVAB, just in case it actually was that hard now. Not so, I scored 78, 9 points lower than I did in 1981!! The school system in America is broken, when a student can go to class, set quietly without causing trouble and actually fail the majority of their subjects, yet get passed on to the next grade, only tells me that either the teachers hand are tied, or, they have more pressing things to accomplish, like impressing their own skewed ideas.

NHSparky

I tested well over 75 high school and college students. Out of those, I had only 7 prospects score high enough to enter the military!

Sounds like some of the schools in LA County I used to visit. Half of them couldn’t pronounce “nuclear”, let alone spell it.

I used to target my presentations towards schools which had large numbers of students (juniors/seniors) who had scored above the national average on the SAT/ACT. It was a rare school in LAUSD who had more than 25 percent cut above national average on those exams. I ran into schools where less than 1 percent managed that feat.

And those were the WORST schools to try to get in and talk to. Oh, you want to come HERE? Why, we only have 4 kids in our chemistry class, and they all have scholarships to USC! These were kids with 900-1000 composite SAT’s (when it was English/Math for perfect 1600) and yeah, because of income/locale/racial makeup, they did indeed have said scholarships.

But somehow never managed to keep them past freshman year when they failed to maintain academic eligibility.