Firearms Inexperience May Have Saved Lives

| July 24, 2012

It’s being reported in the mainstream media that the casualty count in the Aurora shooting could have been much higher but for the fact that the shooter’s semi-auto rifle jammed. The Washington Post says authorities found a 100 round capacity drum magazine in the theater. While it doesn’t say whether the magazine was empty or how many unexpended rounds it contained, if it was not empty, it could well explain the malfunctioning of the rifle.

Most of those familiar with military firearms know that drum magazines, while capable of providing a large ammunition capacity, have a long history of being prone to jamming more frequently than the more commonly used 20 or 30 round, straight-feed, box magazines. In fact, one of the main complaints about one of the most widely used weapons of WWII, the Russian PPSh-41 submachine gun, was the frequency with which its 71 round, drum magazine jammed during firefights. American troops had similar complaints about the less widely used Thompson submachine gun when equipped with a drum magazine.
It is likely that the Aurora shooter was unfamiliar with this reality and was seeking maximum shooting capacity without having to reload, thus his selection of the 100 round, drum magazine. Fortunately for theater patrons who escaped being shot, the drum likely performed in accordance with its design’s reputation for unreliability.

This magazine issue might have some legal bearing on the prosecution of the case if it can be shown he bought the drum magazine separate from the weapon, which could be construed to indicate he took additional, deliberate steps to achieve

Category: General Whackos, Guns

21 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
LIRight

I had a conversation with my wife last night (we owned a gun store back in the 80’s to mid 90’s) about this subject.

Fortunately for everyone involved the owner of the Lead Shooting Range declined Holms’ membership until he met and spoke to him personally because of the weird/bizarre message on his cell phone.

How many more would have been killed or wounded if this guy had been able to practice and work the bugs out and be more prepared for a jam. Maybe he would have decided to use 30 round mags instead…..a lot of maybe’s will remain unknown due to Lead’s suspicions….thank God for that!

Redacted1775

There was an interesting conversation on Piers Morgan today. According to some douche rocket, Ken Salazar I think, cops are the only ones that wear body armor. Mr. Morgan agreed with him 100%. This leads me to believe he wasn’t paying attention at all, as the suspect in Colorado was wearing body armor. He must have fallen asleep during the coverage of the North Hollywood Shootout as well. I think overall what Mr. Morgan fails to realize is criminals don’t obey the law. Therefore if AR type weapons are banned, or any weapon that “looks scary” for that matter, it will effectively inhibit the law abiding citizens’ ability to defend themselves against better armed criminals. These people don’t even know what fucking planet they’re on.

BohicaTwentyTwo

I’ve read unconfirmed reports that he fired only 20 rounds from the AR-15. I’ve also read that most of the deaths were caused by the 8 rounds of 12 gague he fired point blank into the crowd. Of course the only weapon the media is fascinated with is the scary looking one.

Jabatam

Police aren’t the only ones that wear body armor. I am a part of a fugitive recovery (bounty hunting) team. We wear BA but we’re not police. I’m actually the only one that wears ceramic plates in my carrier though

NHSparky

Redacted–and CNN wonders why they are outdone in the ratings by the Cartoon Network.

Memo to Mr. Morgan–there’s a fucking reason we have guns. Go back about 235 years.

Redacted1775

AFN likes to switch between news channels, thats the only reason I caught it, along with Rachel Madcow and Ed fatass Schultz. What’s worse is when they have stand ins, the stand ins are just as crazy and/or stupid as the actual host, if not more.

fm2176

The Beta-C mag (likely the 100-round drum mag recovered at the scene) is temperamental at best from what I hear. My battalion took some to Afghanistan almost ten years ago (I got there a few months later and sat on Rear-D), and later I was told that they had sat in the tough box after causing too many stoppages. I found at least one imported knock-off in a quick search that is likely even worse.

The 75-round drums I had for my MAK-90 were reliable, but then again the Kalashnikov design in general is famous for its reliability and those drums were designed for untrained people to spray and pray. The Beta-C, on the other hand, is designed for highly trained military and law enforcement users.

I too am glad this jackass didn’t have more knowledge and proficiency with his weapons.

Former3c0

Anyone remember the bank robbery in LA that had the police helplessly outgunned?

http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/20/news/mn-536

What was the response? DoD gave the LAPD 600 surplus M16s.

The robbers in this case modified the weapons for automatic fire, and even though one of them could not legally own a weapon, somehow, someway, he got his hands on some firearms…

Yat Yas 1833

This animal is why I carry my .45 and, when I have my grandchildren, have my Mossberg in the “trunk” of my Explorer. If some retard wants to start shooting, I’ll be able to shoot back.

PintoNag

This has been said before, but I’ll repeat it. This didn’t happen out of the blue, with no warning signs. Somebody KNEW there was a problem, and either hoped it would go away, or that someone else would step up and report it. Someone knew something, and did nothing. And isn’t that all it takes for “evil” to triumph?

Smaj

My guess is this monster’s “experience” with weapons came from using them in video games and since weapons don’t malfunction there, he had no idea (thankfully) how to apply immediate action.

bullnav

Check out this stupid bullshit analysis: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57478483/miller-aurora-shooter-must-have-practiced/?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel
Because he “only had about 100 rounds and achieved so many hits, he must have trained.” It does not matter to the analyst that some of those “hits” were in the theater next door after passing through the wall. Not to mention the fact that he (Holmes) must have super-human eyesight to see through the dark and smoke. Idiots. He picked a large, crowded theater so he would not have to aim…

GPC

Glad it jammed pity he surrendered.
He should have suck started his Glock.

Flagwaver

I think he was ready for suicide by cop. Unfortunately, he dropped the empty and malfunctioning weapons when they stopped working or he would have got his wish.

He had armor piercing rounds in the AR. That would explain the penetration through the walls and most of the injuries (through one person and into the next). Unfortunately, the majority of the deaths came from the shotgun. Sure, the pistol was powerful, but by the time he drew it, most of the people were either on the floor or fleeing.

NHSparky

bullnav–because God knows that ripping out a bunch of 12-gauge 00-buck in an enclosed room, hitting anyone is just pure dumb luck…

Jesus but these newsies are dumb sumbitches.

PowerPoint Ranger

From what they have shown now,it’s in doubt whether he was actually wearing body armor. The “bulletproof vest” shown on the news was a simple nylon LBE vest with no Kevlar or plate capacity.

streetsweeper

@ #8- 3CO. That link mildly mentions the North Hollywood shootout towards the end. The rest of it deals with a shoot out in Orange, CA.

Casey

@9 Yat Yas: I’ve read quite a few comments all over the web that if only one concealed-carry user was in the place, s/he could have saved lives. ‘Problem was that the theater was a designated “gun free” zone; no one was legally allowed to bring a firearm.

…And see how well that worked out.

Anonymous

I was about 18 miles from the site, and I believe I heard the first bang of the attack. This guy makes me want to go vigilante and shoot him in the head for what he did. Not only did he comit one of the greatest atrocities of the past 40 years, he also made things that much worse for the rest of us. Good thing his tactical training came from too many video games, but that point is somewhat moot as even if we had the most most nazi gun control, we couldn’t have prevented this. The guy is a bomber first and a shooter as a backup. If he had a bit more bomb making experience this could have been a hell of a lot worse. Not that you’ll be able to convince popular media, who are already convinced of the devils presence in the firearms industry. This whole event just makes me sick. I hope we forego the trail as he was arrested with a weapon in hand (i.e. f’ing guilty right there) and just execute the s.o.b. on the front steps on the court house for this abomination.

Ex-PH2

Chicago and Cook County have extremely strict gun control laws.

This does not prevent, and never has prevented, criminals from getting their hands on weapons and shooting people. It does not stop gang wars or drive-by shootings or keep people from driving up to someone’s house and shooting people they don’t know on their own front porches, nor does it keep bullets from going right through the walls of a house and killing a little girl sleeping in her own bed.

Anyone who wants to shoot up a crowd of people will find a way to get his hands on guns and ammunition, in spite of laws controlling gun ownership, as demonstrated by that freak in Norway killing those kids who just trying to get away from him, and this most recent incident in Aurora, CO.

There is an op-ed piece in today’s local paper by author Brad Thor regarding surveillance active now and underway, the basis for his novel “Black List”. He gives a brief history of US surveillance going back to 1975. While it may generate a strong desire to flip the bird at the nearest streetlamp camera or make yourself a foil hat and go hide in a closet, the fact is that all the surveillance in the world is useless because no one can actually determine what someone else’s intention is.

The question is why on earth do you need a semi-automatic weapon if you’re only going deer hunting? And why would you even need a gun, when a crossbow is less costly and the ammunition can be recovered recycled? The media don’t make it any easier to defend the need to own weapons because they’re mostly too timid to ever want one, and too brain-dead to defend themselves, anyway. They want YOU the soldier to do it for them, and only soldiers need guns.

Former3c0

@17, woops, not sure how the heck I managed that, but oh well you get the picture :P, and anyone can google North Hollywood Bank Robbery…