Zero trust in the professional force
This next stroke out of genius of the Department of the Navy’s leadership is along the same line of thought as that targeted by my recent rant over Lt. Daniel “Lock ’em Down” Durdin’s desire to rescind the boot-leave (and, realistically, massively popular PR program) for the 99.987% of bootcamp graduates who make it through that ten day minefield unscathed.
According to Fox News, the Navy and the Marine Corps are planning to install breathalyzers on their ships and in their units for Sailors and Marines as they report to duty. No sarcasm, no hyperbole. That’s a 100% true statement, irony free. From Fox:
The U.S. Navy will start giving Breathalyzer tests to Marines and sailors reporting for duty aboard ships and submarines and at squadrons, Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus announced Monday in a worldwide call to forces.
Another winning initial from Obama’s new Navy Secretary. One would think that only a severe and immediate crisis would prompt such a dramatic and service wide effort. Instead it’s this:
The testing is part of a new 21st Century Sailor and Marine initiative…
I trust everyone’s alarms bells are sounding at this point, yes?
a multi-prong program aimed at reinforcing healthy lifestyles both on and off-duty. The program emphasizes healthy lifestyles through nutrition, responsible alcohol consumption, zero tolerance for drug use and fitness programs as well as suicide prevention, family and personal preparedness and financial planning.
Ah, yes. Of course.
Not only will sailors reporting for duty watch have to submit to alcohol testing, random Breathalyzers will be done elsewhere “to reduce the occurrence of alcohol-related incidents that can end careers and sometimes end lives,” the Navy confirmed to Fox News.
“This is not done to punish, but to help. We want to help sailors and Marines make good choices before something happens that can’t be undone,” Mabus said during remarks given aboard the USS Bataan in Norfolk, Va., which were televised and web-streamed live to the fleet.
Mabus said the goal is to maximize readiness, fitness and safety.—
According to Federal News Radio, a senior Navy official said the Breathalyzer tests would be non-punitive nor legally admissible, and is intended to let commanders of individual vessels get a heads-up about potential alcohol-related problems.
Now anyone that knows anything about the US military knows there are no such things as non-punitive actions when it comes to this sort of thing, especially when it’s constructed in the paradigm of “integrity checks” or “substance abuse”. Then again probably the only worse thing than a sailor or Marine hit by this “wellness” program getting ran up the flag pole for not quite sleeping all of last night off is a sailor or Marine failing a breathalyzer when reporting for duty and getting a good long talking to about living a balanced lifestyle from someone with a ponytail.
When I read about things like this my mind goes to dark places. Is this another attempt at infantilizing Americans? Is it an ideologically motivated initiative to “cleanse” those of the old school who don’t embrace the Left’s New Military? After all, I’m not exactly old salty over here and when I came in the Marines our SNCOs were still complaining about not being able to have a couple beers at lunch at the E-Club anymore. Or maybe, most frightening of all, the people at the top of the DotN really do think so little of their sailors and Marines.
Because, ultimately, this isn’t about “sometimes young sailors and Marines can make bad choices”, as we all know is true. This is about replacing NCOs with a piece of technology and treating the entire force as pending miscreants. It says, “I don’t trust my enlisted leadership.”
Regarldess of how you cut it I can’t say that we’re sending the message that we have a capable and trustworthy force of professionals guarding our nation when the Navy finds it prudent to make sure the 155 Officers and Petty Officers it has entrusted a $2 billion dollar vessel with enough nuclear weaponry aboard to incinerate a quarter of the world’s population be given a breathalyzer first. Or that the Marine Corps needs treat the Marines who just spent 9 months living in blood, sweat and shit while making truly life and death decisions everyday need to be treated like DUI offenders trying to start their car in the morning.
Hopefully it’s more cock-up than conspiracy and this can just be chalked up to stupidity.
Category: Marine Corps, Military issues, Navy
If the Army had done this when I was in, our whole company, including our Commander, would have been screwed…haha. We drank pretty heavily during the week as long as there was no range or significant training planned for the next day, and in Italy (where this behavior was at it’s peak) we had almost no incidents because us NCO’s took care of our men, watched over them like hawks, and steered them in the right direction. I think that breathalyzers are insulting to the NCO’s, as it’s basically saying that the leadership has no faith in their ability anymore.
Would I be dating myself to admit that when I was in we had beer in the soda machines in the day room? There was one guy in my platoon who would change into his PT uniform after he got back from the mess hall in the evening most week days and then drink in his barracks room til he passed out in his bunk, already dressed for first formation the next morning. He was never drunk on duty and never a hazard to anyone.
I understand the desire to not have service members report for duty drunk, but are breathalyzers really the only option – or even the most efficient option – for making sure it doesn’t happen? I’d like to think that a decade of war has weeded out the incompetents among the NCO ranks, and that those remaining would have a pretty good idea whether the men working under them are impaired without needing a machine to make the call for them.
As for the random breathalyzers to be done elsewhere, I can tell you exactly what that’s going to lead to – even worse choices by service members who have been drinking. If you know that coming back to the barracks after a night of drinking might result in counseling of some sort, chances are you’re just going to find someplace else to sleep it off, even if that someplace is the back seat of a car parked up the street from whatever dive you’ve been drinking at.
The stupidity is strong in this administration…
They might as well skip the breathalyzer and just UCMJ every swinging dick 11Bravo or 0311. Might as well get to the point.
So Mabus claims these breathalyzer tests will not be “done to punish, but to help”, huh? That’s probably just about the same line he used to convince his ex-wife to meet with their pastor so he could surreptiously tape record the conversation to use against her in court. He’s quite a guy.
Let’s see if I understand this. From this administration’s point of view:
Tobacco use: Bad
Alchohol use: Bad
Taking it up the poop chute from your buddy and all the attendant health problems that go along with that sort of activity: Good
Nope, I still don’t get it.
I wrote a note to the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy on his Face Book page. As a former Petty Officer 1st Class, the one thing that I understood clearly was that if you want your men to act as adults, then treat them as adults. Don’t be flustering and blustering about them like a nanny on steroids.
When they mess up, deal with them. Set standards and hold folks responsible for them. We drank mightily on my aircrew, but we had an iron-clad rule of 12 hours from bottle to throttle.
These nanny state zampolits from Millington need to be sent packing, and the whole “Diversity Enterprise” shut down. It’s a cancer that will (and is) eat away at our fleet, and destroy the morale.
AndyN: We had soda/beer machines on every floor of the barracks, both stateside and overseas. Fifty cents a can, ice cold, though the selections were often quite limited. Hell, we had squadron kegger parties masked as barbecues, with officers and enlisted alike all having a good time.
We self-policed, and supported the “Leadership by Example” idea. It was a pretty good time to be a sailor.
“This is not done to punish, but to help. We want to help sailors and Marines make good choices….”
In 20 years of service, whenever I heard some tool spewing out catchy B.S. like that, I knew we were in for a serious boning.
When I was a kid I learned:
“Treat them like children, they will act like children.”
When I was in the Army I learned:
“Treat them like privates, they will act like privates.”
You will always have a few screw up… but I made that a learning lesson for all.
Gone are the days of on-duty hard charging training-fighting (war) and of off duty- drinking, whoring and fighting. That is sad.
Can’t say this really surprises me. Mabus is the same individual who decided that a 5-year Congresswoman whose only real claim to fame is being in the right place at the wrong time and surviving getting shot by a loon is more deserving of having a ship named after her than MOH recipients.
And if what MMX0311 says above is true (I hadn’t heard that), he’s also a real “piece of work” on a personal level, too.
“Drunk watchstanders” is not a billion dollar problem. More social engineering from Mabus.
I can tell you this, though: if those devices are maintained at the division level, stand by for heavy replacement costs. Sailors are crafty, and will always find a way to make an inconvenience disappear.
Teddy–all we need is the MSM getting hold of ONE instance of someone standing SRO drunk or hung over (and don’t tell me it never happens.) I’ve come in on days where it might have been touch and go once or twice. But it was taken care of by my LPO–I didn’t need to blow into a tube and possibly face sanctions over it. If this DOES lead to non-watchstanders going to mast, this is bullshit.
I’m pretty torn on this one. On the one hand, yeah, it kinda says to our enlisted (and officer to a lesser extent) that they’re a bunch of lushes who are not to be trusted. On the other, because of NRC requirements, I’m subject to random FFD, and refusal to submit and provide a sample within two hours means immediate termination and I’ll NEVER work at another nuke plant.
For the record, I’m at the tail end of the “drink your lunch and be gone by noon on payday Fridays” crowd and the beer in the barracks vending machine era. I’m kind of getting the impression this was very similar to the reaction when urinalysis first came out. Again, as long as they’re not having everyone blow into the tube at quarters every morning, I’m not necessarily against this. Maybe I’m just overly sensitive regarding being clean and sober in “critical” jobs or watchstations.
Now I’m waiting for Durbin’s new Gazette article talking about how it would now be okay to give new Marines leave if they had breathalyzer trackers GPS linked to HQMC on their wrists.
Why don’t they just seal off All bases and facilities? Everyone confined to base 24/7. They can allow family visitation after they secure in the afternoon from 1700 – 2100 after which every swinging dick or tit has to hit the rack. Married members can have conjugal visits on Saturdays. But only MARRIED members, everyone one knows sex between unmarried couples is immoral. They can close down all E, NCO & O clubs! Remove all booze, junk food and red meat from all the PXes & BXes. Hey, they can make all chow halls vegan.
I am so glad I’m Old Corps! I remember one time myself, Fitz, Peck and I think Riv went to the NCO club and got smashed to see who could run the best PFT hungover!?! Old Corps…Ooh Rah
Gone is my Navy era with beer machines in the barracks at Groton and the instructors at Dam Neck taking the students for beer and bikinis at the E club for Friday lunch. Again, the Navy is at the pointy end of the PC spear.
@13- It happens. Most of us have stood a watch a time or two when we probably shouldn’t have. That has been happening with every nation’s navy since before we were sailing in triremes. No need to waste funds on ridiculous policy.
NHSparky: my problem with this is twofold. Disclaimer: I was never Navy, so I have no personal stake or perspective here. First: I don’t see the necessity. As I understand it, most if not all ships have a medical officer, and alcohol is prohibited while underway. Therefore, if any Sailor of any rank is suspected of alcohol use, I don’t see why they can’t be escorted to that medical officer and compelled to give a blood sample for use in possible UCMJ proceedings. This is already the case at all shore installations (they can also alternately be marched down to the MP station and compelled to “blow in the tube”). If for some reason this wouldn’t practical, then a breathalyzer provided to the ship’s captain for exclusive use in cases of suspicion of illicit alcohol use or being under the influence might be appropriate. But I simply don’t see the need otherwise. And on any ship with a sickbay and surgeon, I simply can’t see why it would be necessary – period. But I’d appreciate the insights of those with a naval background on the issue. Second: as described above, the intended use goes far beyond preventing drunk watch standers. The intent clearly is for this to be used as a tool for indiscriminate unit sweeps and/or other indiscriminate preemptive and/or survey purposes. IMO, this very clearly tells sailors that their chain of command doesn’t trust them to act as adults and does not value their privacy whatsoever. People generally perform as expected, provided those expectations are clear. Treat men and women like children, and I’ll damn well guarantee some will act that way. And this will be another disincentive for some to continue service. In summary: I don’t see any problem with compulsory testing on suspicion, or with random testing for critically sensitive positions. I do have a problem with compulsory random or mass preemptive testing, absent suspicion of wrongdoing, applied across the board regarding the use of a legal product simply because it’s possible. While the military may well have the authority to do that, it’s IMO an… Read more »
An Army NCO recently told me that any of the following things will result in authomatic processing for termination:
One alcohol or drug related incident on your record.
(ie. you had alcohol in your system when anything negative happened, even if you were the helping the damsel in distress from a predator that busted your eye open.)
Two Field Grades.
The offenses may have been at any point of your career, from Private to Sergeant Major.
That breathalyzer test would help weed out the 80,000 Soldiers and 20,000 Marines Obama wants cut and cut now.
And General Dempsey? Oh, he has noticed that Warriors and Soldiers are not cut from the same cloth. He’s tired of Warriors that are good at winning battles and wants to return to pretty Soldiers that are good at parades. You know: A return to the “Professionals.”
Why do I hear the Empire theme music in the back ground when I read about this? Sheesh.
Lol, like someone above said, I remember myself and a couple buddies purposely getting drunk the night before an APFT SPECIFICALLY to see who would do best on the test while in the worst possible shape. 😉
If the Navy had such tools in the late 1980″s, almost 600 ship would never get underway. Good thing we only have less than 250 real ships today!
@19
The Marines have been doing that for a long time. One alcohol related incident, and you’re gone.
Yeah, I would say if this is a policy of testing everybody just for shits and giggles then you’re going to see that policy rigidly adhered to for up to, oh, maybe a whole week before it gets shoved off the plate of other bullshit requirements.
And as far as getting rid of the clubs? Hey, that shit’s been going on for almost 20 years now, and yet Big Navy still can’t figure out why the fuck ARI’s in town keep going up.
Case in point–I remember when I was in Guam (any older bubbleheads also remember Site III) and Andy’s Hut was literally a 10-minute walk away from the tender/boats. Get a few in ya, closed fairly early, no problem. Close down Andy’s (partially due to Typhoon Omar, partially due to earthquake) for a while, and watch the CO’s Masts for DUI skyrocket to 1-2 a week.
Gee, what a shocker.
Got this pic of having a long line of folks waiting to board ship. Puff the tube, it shows impairment. Then what? Send the sailor to bed to sober up? Send them home to Mommy??
Oh, yeah, this is just another stupid idea, with only negative consequences serving no useful purpose.
The Navy has had a Zero-Tolerance policy for a long time,
one DUI and you are done.
I came real close to visiting the Admiral while under escort from my CO. (Another officer on my ship made that trip, and had to stand by while the Admiral chewed out the CO.)
Sailors return to the ship drunk. The sailors with the duty, watch over and take care of their drunken shipmates. but to document the drinking – this will drive sailors into more trouble, you want the drunk sailors to return to the ship/station to sleep it off, they are protected onboard, and you punish those who are still drunk the next morning at Quarters.
OWB–I hear ya on that score–as cautiously supportive with major conditions as I might be about this, I’m also not stupid enough to believe that bullshit that there won’t be any repercussions if someone shows up impaired (and has there been any discussion of what THAT means? .08? .04 like it is here? .00?)
Well, Petty Officer Schmuckatelli, the reason why you’re still getting a 2.0 in Military Bearing and “Not Recommended” for advancement…yeah, I hear that conversation already.
AW1 Tim- Any reply from the MCPON?
Kevin–come on, you know he’s as politicized as anyone and is just going to parrot the party line.
I know… It’s time to “Anchor UP”
23 and a wake up and this 37 year odessey will come to an end. Apparently, just at the right time.
This sort of thing makes me glad I got out. The military is bloated with incompetent bonus chasers who push ‘innovative’ crap like this, and the good guys get run into the ground courtesy of having to pick up the slack. Once Afghanistan begins to wind down then the downsizing will really get ugly.
Ann, I’m with you, of course my service was waaay before yours. In my day it was the height/weight thing that had them chasing off good Marines. Now they put young people in positions of authority and control then treat them like children. Real confidence booster.
As a 22 y/o Sergeant, Lt Byrd sent me out with my section to support a reserve unit on annual training. I was it, no officers, no SNCOs, just a broke dick Sgt in charge of five Amtracs and 15 Marines. It was funny, the reserve officers had a problem dealing with me, a mere Sgt in command?
The brass didn’t give a damn if I got trashed every night as long as I was ready to do my job in the morning hung over or not! They knew I was a good NCO and to them that was all that mattered.
What about that admin Sailor or Marine who is sick and taking some kind of cough medicine or dayquil? When they pop the breathalyzer, will they be counseled for taking actions to not spread the plague?
@Yat The zero tolerance for DUI policy got some of our best personnel booted. I can understand if this was a recurring issue, but often it was just one accident. Now they have General or OTH discharges while the 300lb 10 year Corporals hide from deployment, and at most will simply be barred from reenlistment.