Anti-war drivel
This was on Lew Rockwell, someone posted it on Facebook and despite the warning, I didn’t take antacids before reading it. But, it’s written by some doofus named Laurence M. Vance and titled “Marines, Why Do You Do This to Your Families?“. judging by the title, you’d think Mr. Vance is asking the Marines to stop abusing their families in some manner, but no, he’s asking them why they would go to war. After plowing through the series of specials on PBS about the 3rd Battalion, 5th Regiment and their tour of Afghanistan in the Sangin district of Helmand province. Apparently, they had a tough time of it and lost 25 Marines killing 470 Taliban (you know those guys who aren’t our enemies). So the abuse that the Marines of 3-5 are inflicting on their family is the fact tha they’re conducting our nations’ wars;
If you just wanted to feel the trill of leading men in battle, then shame on you. If you just couldn’t find a job so you enlisted in the Marines, then shame on you. If you just wanted to experience the mental and physical challenge, then shame on you. If you just enlisted because your father was a Marine, then shame on you. If you just wanted to go to war, then shame on you. If you just thought you were defending our freedoms, then shame on you. If you just wanted to die a hero, then shame on you. If you just felt you had to complete the mission, then shame on you. If you just enlisted because you thought your government needed you, then shame on you. If you thought there was just no better job than being a Marine, then shame on you.
I have no doubt that the Marines of the Darkhorse Battalion fought valiantly. I am not questioning their manhood, courage, or determination. But I also have no doubt that each of the deaths of those twenty-five Marines from the Darkhorse Battalion was preventable, unnecessary, and senseless.
Lance Cpl. Josue Barron, who lost an eye, a leg, and some of his close friends, at the end of a discussion about whether everything that happened in Afghanistan was “worth it,” said: “It was worth it. If I say it wasn’t worth it, what about my friends that died? I’m disrespecting them, like they died for nothing.”
Sorry, Josue, as much as you may not want to face it, and no matter how many times you tell yourself that it was “worth it,” your friends died in vain just like those unfortunate U.S. soldiers who died in Iraq. Likewise, the only thing that the Marines in Afghanistan died for was a lie.
Shame on you for putting the Marines above your families. Shame on you for making a god out of the Marines.
It must be nice to know that there are Marines out there who put their lives on the line everyday so people like you, Miss Vance (I have no problem questioning his manhood), can retch this kind of bile onto the intertubes. If there weren’t men like the 3-5 Marines, Miss Vance might have to defend himself on the street outside his warm and comfortable home, or by his roaring fire hearth and that would cut into his writing schedule, not to mention his ability to breathe.
Of course, no Lew Rockwell piece is complete without a salute to chief crank emeritus of the anti-war movement;
I plead with you to heed the words of U.S. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler (1881-1940), a two-time Congressional Medal of Honor winner who came to the conclusion that:
War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
Do you mean the Smedley Butler who was suspected of conspiring in a plot to overthrow the US government and install a Nazi sympathizer as our president? THAT Smedley Butler? But then, the linguine-spined anti-war movement has always been more comfortable with Nazis and Socialists than a democratic government protected by the US Marines.
Category: Antiwar crowd, I hate hippies
I am very glad that I live in this wonderful country, and I know very well this country would not exist, absent the the force applied by our soldiers from time to time.
Many thanks.
Zombie Paul supporters coming to thread in 3…2…1…
Memo to Ronulans. Save it. We’re not buying your bullshit. And NO, I’m not voting for that senile hypocritical racist anti-Semite tomorrow, so stop calling and asking me.
If all you can do is sit in your ivory tower, and spew hatred at better men, and women, than you, then shame on you, Ms. Vance. Asshat, and obviously a Ronulan.
And, I second what Sparky said in his post.
“Medal of honor winner”…there you go, another smoker of cock who thinks honor, courage, bravery etc are just a game to be won.
Not only that, TSO, but look at the circumstances under which Butler was awarded both of his MoHs (Veracruz and Haiti). Even he had reservations as to whether or not his actions actually merited the Medal of Honor, and basically had to be ORDERED to wear them.
Granted, I wouldn’t ever question the man’s bravery, but would his actions even merit consideration for the nation’s highest military award not once, but twice?
Butler wasn’t a Nazi sympathizer, he was a communist sympathizer, hence all the anti-capitalist drivel.
You know, just because some capitalists made some profit during or after some conflict, it doesn’t mean that was the primary purpose of the conflict in question. Capitalists make money in any situation, whether there is was or peace. That’s what capitalists do, the capitalize.
Didn’t Butler find his truth light AFTER his retirement was secure? You bet he did. Principles don’t come cheap, you know! His superiors never questions his bravery–but they didn’t trust him. And that explains why they would not give him a combat command during WW I. My first point always pisses me off about former military high ups who, after the have their goodies in hand, screw the people they left behind.
I have one word to describe Vance and I know that you all know what word that is, so I’m not going to say it. Little miss Vance is one of those “intellectual” types that doesn’t realize the only reason they are able to write their bullshit and think their deep thoughts is because of those he scolds in this tripe he calls and article. Mr. Vance is under the mistaken impression that his security, freedom of speech, etc. is provided by the Constitution without the benefit of understanding that the Constitution is a piece of paper and someone has to protect those rights, which by coincidence, are the same ones he’s scolding. If not for the ones that take the oath to protect and defend the Constitution, then he probably wouldn’t be able to say what he thinks now.
On Drugs
“Speaking as a libertarian believer in moral absolutes in general and the ethical principles of the New Testament in particular, I reject federal, state, and local drug prohibition of any kind. I am against drug criminalization, drug regulation, drug restrictions, drug licensing, drug taxing, drug oversight, drug testing, and limiting drugs just to medical use.” Laurence Vance Dec 2010, Future of Freedom Foundation
On Fluoride
The case against adding fluoride to drinking water has nothing to do with its costs exceeding its benefits, its dubious health claims, its harmful effects, or the need for local governments to trim unnecessary expenses. It has everything to do with tyranny, paternalism, socialism, and crony capitalism. Laurence Vance March 2 2011, Future of Freedom Foundation
The Military
“Not in any particular order, and in varying degrees of significance, here are some freedoms I wish the military were defending:
The freedom to grow, sell, and smoke marijuana.
The freedom to make more than six withdrawals from one’s savings account each month.
The freedom to sell any good or offer any service on Craigslist.
The freedom to smoke Cuban cigars.
The freedom to discriminate against anyone for any reason.
The freedom to not be brutalized by the police.
The freedom to sell raw milk.
The freedom to not have one’s child unjustly taken by Child Protective Services.
The freedom to stay in one’s home during a hurricane….
Laurence Vance, LewRockwell.com
Never did cotton to Lew Rockwell, though he is a big dog at the Von Mises Institute of Austrian Economics. Though IMO, he has the correct view in Economics, Mises must be rolling over in his grave.
Rockwell and apparently, this Vance guy, are nut cases. In the same manner as Ron Paul, who though at times has what I consider to be good ideas or positions, completely loses me when he goes off the deep end in that “chemtrail” way that he does.
And as Zee says, YMMV.
Well, the libertarian side of me actually agrees with much of that. It really is not the business of the government to interfere with stupid people thinning themselves from the herd.
But then, even a stopped clock is correct twice each day.
I really don’t get it. I mean, you can have your opinion and all, but to be that completely obtuse and confused about why Marines (or any of us really) serve is really beyond me.
I’m a Libertarian, but my interest in Rockwell’s site ended soon after I discovered it. Extreme views about the military almost make me a small ‘l’…but every party has it’s mouth breathers.
@11: OWB–I, too, am inclined toward less government control and more personal freedom to succeed, to fail, or to never try. However, the problem with the libertarian absolutists–the guys who would all but eliminate government control –is that they are a hair away from anarchy and modeling their ideal on a fantasy.
Vance needs a good braining with an e-tool. Repeatedly.
CI–sad to say for the Libertarian Party, it seems to be a magnet for mouth-breathers.
Libertarianism is the perfect political philosophy–if you’re 14.
@16 – Eh..to each their own. If the GOP weren’t so hung up on regulating consensual ‘moral’ issues….and actually governed like fiscal conservatives…I’d still have a home there.
The same reason why, when people ask me where my political affiliation lies, I say conservative first, party second.
Mmmm….didn’t Butler go to Senator John McCormack and expose this plot? Oh, sorry, that goes against the tread narrative. Carry on.
I would rather follow in the footsteps of SgtMaj Dan Daly, who was awarded 2 medals of honor for 2 separate actions as well as a navy cross, among many other awards. He cared more about being a Marine than anything else, and was quoted as saying, upon turning down a commission,that he would rather be “an outstanding Sergeant than just another officer.” The difference is Daly didn’t give a shit about politics, he was a fighting man.
Lost, perhaps you’ve missed the point, by which I’m for once NOT referring to the one on your head.
Butler, for whatever his actions, was and is a questionable character to associate with, given his rather contradictory stances and political acts which weren’t always on the up-and-up.
Seems to me the only people who keep brining him up are the leftists and anti-war Ronulan nutjobs (but I repeat myself.)
“Mmmm….didn’t Butler go to Senator John McCormack and expose this plot?”
Reviewing the history of the plot, it would appear that General Butler was on board for most of the effort, and only ratted people out after the plot started to leak to the FBI. It’s worth noting that the alleged “dictator” was the former head of the National Recovery Administration–who was left without a job after the Supreme Court declared the National Recovery Act unconstitutional.
@ #14 AC: Yes, I concur. However, there is also a huge differance between federal and local controls. Minimal should come from the former with the details being determined at local levels.
Not a fan of anarchy, much less chaos. But, I also kinda like a society where the individual freedoms for one end where the individual freedoms for another begin. We don’t really seem to have a fairly universal understanding of that concept these days, and I am uncertain if that genie can ever be forced back into the bottle.
Hmmm Vance is the lovechild of Gordon Duff and May.
This is beyond obtuse. Perhaps he missed his flight on Heaven’s Gate.
Hey, Ronulans! Here’s a little something for YOU to read!
“And what is this liberty which must lie in the hearts of men and women? It is not the ruthless, the unbridled will; it is not freedom to do as one likes. That is the denial of liberty, and leads straight to its overthrow. A society in which men recognize no check upon their freedom soon becomes a society where freedom is the possession of only a savage few; as we have learned to our sorrow.” -Judge Learned Hand, The Spirit of Libery
@25 – Let me first caveat that I don’t support Paul for the nomination. But just where the check on the freedom of citizens is placed, is always and entirely up for political debate.
For Paul himself, the opposition to his national office seems to be centered almost entirely on his prospective foreign policy. Also up for debate….but where in his platform does he espouse rampant and damaging liberties with no safeguards?
Perhaps I’m wrong, but the Paul supporters that I know and read of, typically aren’t minarchists or anarcho-capitalists.
@23 OWB – Bingo!
@25 NHSparky – Fire for effect! That is the EXACT reason that Paul and all his accolytes are in la-la land, because there will ALWAYS be some Hun that wants your wife, daughter, you, your gold, to tell you what to do, whatever. It is human nature.
Not here to question why men join the Marines or to defend Vance’s doing so.
Just wanted to address JL’s assertion re. Smedley Butler:
“Do you mean the Smedley Butler who was suspected of conspiring in a plot to overthrow the US government and install a Nazi sympathizer as our president? THAT Smedley Butler?”
No, I think he means the Smedley Butler that, when he was approached by fascists to help them lead said overthrow, presented secret testimony to a congressional committee. (But was subsequently blown off.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler#Allegations_of_the_Business_Plot
That’s my understanding of the story. If you have info indicating that he was sympathetic to their cause, please do share it.
Smedley Butler’s pamphlet
“War is a Racket” was published two years after his testimony to Congress about the Business Plot. Many thinking historians (a dying breed) believe it was to cover for his role in the Business Plot. Non-thinking historians only see his testimony to Congress as proof he wasn’t involved, but actually, he didn’t testify until the FBI began investigating tips to the plot. you don’t try to involve 500,000 veterans in an overthrow of the government without getting leaky.
By the way, Congressman Samuel Dickstein (D-NY), co-chairman of the committee which heard Butler’s testimony was proven to be a paid agent of the NKVD, precursor to the KGB, by Allen Weinstein in his book “The Haunted Wood“. I have two signed copies if you’d like one.
Oh, and the Smedley Butler who at least one person here referred to as a POS. (Presumably because Butler came to assert that “War is a Racket.”)
Sad that even a highly-decorated Marine general isn’t free to change his opinion re. the wars he fought without having his honor or integrity questioned.
SgtMaj Dan Daly, all the way.
@30 1775 – Roger that.
@29. I read all of the comments and can’t find the one that, as you say, referred to Smedley as a POS. I guess I missed it. Please pinpoint it. And as for your taking others to task for not bowing to Smedley’s memory because “of the wars he fought”, wouldn’t the same apply to Benedict Arnold? After all, he was a highly decorated officer, a combat veteran, and the fellow about whom George Washington said, to paraphrase, ‘If he is taken, hang him.’ And if that’s your standard–that no one should question the honor or integrity of highly decorated combat veterans, shouldn’t that hold true regardless of nationality?
ah the old refrain of “But Smedly Butler said” Yes occasionally we have a hero that turns into a Jackass. I don’t see anyone talking about what Randy “Duke” Cunningham says. He was a hero. He made mistakes.
Furthermore, War is not something to be undertaken lightly. Something the Anti-war crowd, forgets though is that there are some very good reasons to fight.
@ (33) 2-17 AirCav,
I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear. The “one person here” who called Butler a lousy POS was on this thread:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=27117
(@46 Thejester)
And Benedict Arnold? Really?
I’m not talking about bowing to Butler’s memory because of the wars he fought. I’m talking about considering the man’s words with regard to the wars he fought.
It sure seems to me that Butler catches alot of hell here because of his perspective — sure to be unwelcome among vets, esp. those who’ve seen combat — that war is a racket.
Or, as some genius recently wrote here:
“Smedley, or Saint Smedley as he known to today’s OWS flag-burning crowd, was a highly decorated Marine general who denigrated his own service and those of his subordinates by declaring the military to be mere pawns of Wall street. I know little about him but if he’s adored by the OWS mob, that’s as much as I care to know about him.”
And that’s really what seems to gall the militards here to no end: The fact that, later in life, Butler apparently re-evaluated what it was he was fighting for, and didn’t like the conclusion he arrived at.
May as well have blashpemed the Holy Spirit.
As much as SDB is touted within the ranks of the looney left as a means of legitimacy for their anti military views, in the end his ramblings are just one man’s opinion. Old duckboard has one just like everyone else. Something tells me know matter how hard you try, the term “militard” just won’t stick. Maybe you should get that chip on your shoulder removed old timer. Can’t go through life angry and resentful as you do. Bad for the blood pressure.
@ 34 Doc Bailey: ah the old refrain of “But Smedly Butler said” Yes occasionally we have a hero that turns into a Jackass.
EK: But it seems the reason miltards call him a jackass is because he had the nerve, later in his life, to change his mind re. the legitimacy — the “justness” — of the causes for which he fought. Kinda smarts, don’t it?
@ 34 Doc Bailey: I don’t see anyone talking about what Randy “Duke” Cunningham says. He was a hero. He made mistakes.
EK: I don’t know anything about Duke’s military service.
But “mistakes”? Accepting $2.4 million in bribes? Maybe the man’s post-service corruption is why “nobody ever talks about what Duke says.”
I appreciate your concern for my health, Retarded1775, but no, no chip. Just figured what’s sauce for the Paultard goose is gravy for the miltard gander.
Maybe I’ll craft an actual written definition for miltard one of these days. In the meantime, I suspect you know what I mean.
That’s why I respect SgtMaj Dan Daly more than I ever will Butler. He didn’t flip-flop. 😉 Actually, when he retired from the Marine Corps he became a security guard for a bank on wall street, slipping into obscurity.
@ 34 Doc Bailey: Furthermore, War is not something to be undertaken lightly. Something the Anti-war crowd, forgets though is that there are some very good reasons to fight.
Frank: … which is why I’m not anti-war.
Unfortunately, the “reasons” often given by our own gummint are nowhere near “good.” And they’re often lies. Vietnam and Iraq, for example.
Doesn’t it bother you in the least that Congress hasn’t declared war in any of our various wars since WWII?
Redacted1775,
I’ll go look Daly up right now.
Thx.
Redacted,
Just read the Daly article on WikiPedia. A hero, no doubt.
But if you don’t know the difference between a “flip-flop” and a change of mind in accord with one’s conscience …
EK I know I got under your skin when you have to post multiple times. Butler, tried very hard in his latter years to work against pertty much all the Interests of the United States and its citizens. I do not know the particulars of when he turned into such a raging douche bag, but I do know no one would know who he was if the MOH had not been the only award we had at the time he served. It is debatable that many of the pre-WWI Awards would have stood up to the standards we hold now.
Now Butler did in fact turn his back on his country. SE OF Did he go so far as to plot the rise of Nazism here in America. . . I wouldn’t put it past him. He advocated communism in the Depression.
“miltard” Interesting. Well EK, what exactly is a Miltard? Define please in exacting detail what exactly it is. For I am a low knuckle Dragger and know not such things.
Seeing Lew Rockwell’s name in the first sentence, nearly made me skipped over it. Who is also a personel friend and supporter of Ron Paul. You know, the guy who has more active duty support then any other candidate.
Same typical shit blame the warrior for policies they didn’t enact. Shit on the martial qualities that our nation needs to survive and justify it all out of a silly compassion, that is little more then masked condescension.
Yeah, I remember hearing about this documentary awhile back, will have to look it up.
A few added points.
Sangin was one the worse towns in all of the Helmend and as far as I’m aware there is still some resistence there, at least until very recently. The Brits took more casualties there then anywhere else in Afghanistan and simply never had more then a company there for most of that time. They simply didn’t have the manpower to contemplate pacification, whether they were actually skilled enough is another question entirely.
The Author comments that 3/5 Marines took 25 KIA and 184 “badly wounded”, I’m going to assume he meant they had to be evacuated from country. Still that adds up to 209 total casualities, I know the Brits lost well over a 100 men there, it is a semiscar for the British Army. Since these losses are attributed to one battalion and no other attachments, assuming a USMC infantry battalion has 800-1000 men, thats 20% to 25% of total manpower. If the enemy lost 470 Taliban or half an Infantry battalion in one god damnn town(yeah nothing to see), the enemy simply can’t sustain those losses. I doubt the enemy lost that many men in giant platoon sized engagements and up either. The unit took severe losses but was hardly combat ineffective.
That was arguably the worst town in Helmend where the enemy fortifed the area with antipersonel IEDs, had prepositioned supplies, a working shadow administration, and a pool of experienced manpower. Everything was optimum for the enemy and that was the best he could do?
I think the point being made about Smedly Butler is that every anti-war organization under the sun is quick to reference him on every occasion available because his rank gives the appearance of legitimacy to their cause.
However, statistically speaking, out of the hundreds of general officers in the military since 1900 it is almost assured that you can find one that will support any belief you have, not matter how ridiculous or crazy it may be.
Just because one guy agrees with you cause, doesn’t make it more legitimate no matter who it is. One individual can not be used to represent an entire organization. That is the error in all of these organizations using his service to support their agenda.
The Acme Bean Company makes beans. The Acme Bullet company makes bullets. When a war appears imminent, production at both companies increases, prices rise, business booms. The Army needs beans and butter. The companies’ owners (or stockholders), managers, and employees enjoy inceased earnings and profits. War begins and business is very good. For them and many other manufacturers and raw-materials processors, the dough is better than ever. The companies didn’t start the war but, the fact is, the war is good. Men in the field are being sustained by their products and the enemy is being killed by their products. Is this somehow wrong? Is this the racket?