Things I wouldn’t write
There’s an opinion column in the Washington Post written by Michael Cummings entitled “I didn’t deserve my combat pay“. Basically, Cummings compares his two tours to the Middle East. Of his first tour he wrote;
We slept on cots. I roomed with eight other people. In the winter, snowmelt leaked through our roof. In the summer, temperatures routinely passed 100 degrees and our AC units would crash. It took several minutes to get hot water in the shower, if it came. Food consisted of two warm trays of heated .?.?. stuff, if we didn’t eat MREs. A snowstorm could knock out the satellite television feed and the Internet, as one did on Super Bowl Sunday.
In short, conditions were spartan.
Now, I may get some shit for this, seein’s how my war was two decades ago and fairly abbreviated, but; WTF, dude? That’s not Spartan in the least – I mean look at some of the nouns in that statement “AC”, “cots”, “hot water”, “satellite television”, “internet”, “food…warm”. So what if the stuff hardly ever worked.
I’m not saying he didn’t deserve those things, nor that he didn’t deserve to have the stuff work, but I’m pretty sure no who has spent any time in most of the Army would call that spartan.
He compares that tour to his second tour;
On our compound, the water was always warm (sometimes too warm). The chow hall had a Caesar salad bar, a sandwich bar, an ice cream freezer, and shrimp and steak Fridays. My (personal) room had a working AC unit and Internet connection. VBC hosted multiple PXs, coffee shops and nightly dance parties. I could buy pillows, microwaves, televisions or any video game.
Conditions were plush.
Actually, i thought the description of the first tour was about plush conditions.
Category: Military issues
“I didn’t deserve m combat pay“.
Yeah, but I bet you spent it just the same. If you feel that strongly about it, donate the combat pay to Soldiers Angels or the Wounded Warrior Project. That way you can cleanse your conscience properly.
I read the original, and I didn’t feel all that inky about his point. I’m not even sure he wrote the head.
His point, that being a fobbit isn’t the same as actually being the guys in Restrepo is a point you all have made on here before.
I heart all of you, and do not know who deserves what…. but the only ones who have a say should be the ones who served.
Yeah, what Old Trooper said! Wonder what this jack wad would have thought about sitting hours or days in shit filled rice paddies or OPs in the middle of The Arizona or DMZ. My sons first tour in Iraq with his Seaknight Squadron emailed me the same sentiments when he’d see grunts loading up for an op or a bird going out on a medevac. He did’nt feel he deserved combat pay. My response to him was, mortars and rockets are indescriminate killers.
*****somewhere. The ones who served somewhere. Not implying one person’s service was better than the next.
He goes on to make a decent point; there is a vast difference in how service members live overseas, yet they all draw the same amount of hazardous fire pay. Let’s see, we spent our first month in Kuwait, sleeping in tents and eating in a chow hall tent that was only a klick or so away. When a sandstorm blew in after a couple of weeks, the chow tent collapsed and we ate in the open until it was repaired. When we moved to another camp another sandstorm blew down our tent in the middle of the night. I drank up to 12 liters of water a day and life was good. Our first week in Iraq was spent living in “hasty” fighting positions that took hours to scrape out and offered no overhead cover. We each received 4.5 liters of water a day and ate MREs. When we pushed into Baghdad we spent the better part of a week stretching out the 2 or 3 stripped MREs we brought with us and getting 3 liters of water a day while in combat operations. After a week or so there we saw our first T-Ration, after which we had them once per week until we flew north. When we reentered the airport terminal we had cleared only a month earlier, the support personnel had already settled in and had a PX tent and a massive amount of assets in place. After we flew north we shoveled goat shit out of hangars at Tal Afar, ate MREs and drank water. One day we actually got a hot breakfast (might have been T-Rats in retrospect). We then moved to Saddam Dam, where we lived a life of luxury for a week or two. Duplexes with A/C, a local grocery store and a fly-infested restaurant with some good goat burgers (or something, the fig vinegar was great!). The powers that be decided we were too good for the place, we moved further north and a sister battalion moved in and stayed for the remainder of the deployment. Further north we shoveled human… Read more »
Well except for the fact that we didn’t have satellite tv, just over the air AFN and the internet hadn’t been invented yet the first set of conditions would describe barracks life in Germany in the late 70’s to 80’s. Well okay we didn’t have AC either just little radiator style heaters, but I didn’t want to nick pick.
And he got combat pay for it?
VBC gets attack all the time and people die. He may not of saw it but you are in an elevated posture. He may not of gone anywhere, but not everyone VBC is there all the time and others routinely leave the base for other FOBs to do various missions. I could consider myself a fobbit but I flew on missions to bases such as from VBC to Al Kut or VBC to Balad. I could easily been shot at or killed at anytime. Mortars were launched onto VBC routinely. Just because I never had to fire my weapon I treat as a godsend. I don’t want to kill someone unless I have to. It sounds like he is feeling guilty – for what? Everyone chooses their job. If you are an infrantryman, you probably aren’t sitting behind a desk. Conversely, if you are a Commo guy, you probably aren’t beating down doors either. Maybe he should re-join the Army in a ‘harder’ MOS and see how he likes the spartan life then.
Yeah, we had luxury, cots half the time, no hot water, unless you put a bladder of water in the sun all day. C-rats and later MREs. When we were supposed to use shelter halfs, I would bring my net hammock with and string it up between 2 trees, tie some parachute chord above it and throw a mosquito net over it and if it was raining; put my pancho on top of that. Sleeping in the hammock meant I only had to deal with critters in the trees, not the ground borne critters. When we had cots, it was cool, you just had to be careful getting out of your bag in the morning, so you didn’t disturb any visitors that crawled in with you during the night.
One time, a guy spotted an old block outhouse in the middle of the desert and decided he was sick of crapping in a hole he had to dig….well, he came back and crapped in the hole he had dug, since the outhouse was covered in Black Widows.
Good times, good times.
Michael Cummings is far from a jack wad. And I believe some/many of you missed some of his points about combat pay to those who arrive on the last day of the month and leave on the first day of the month, etc.
I have less than ZERO right to agree or disagree with Michael because I have never served. And, admittedly, those of you who have served have EVERY right o disagree.
All I’m saying is that I KNOW where he was for 15 months during OEF VII when a lot of great friends and a lot of other Americans I have never met sent the men of the ROCK (173rd, 2-503rd) over 16 tons of food, socks, blankets, hand and foot warmers, nails, screws, battery powered hand tools, batteries (never ending), etc.
@Pcutie
I’m sure the fobbits and REMF’s took their share of the stuff before forwarding what was left…….
God you people are pissing me off today.
Jonn knows my relationship with those men and how involved and informed I was from here. Even more so, those men know. PERIOD.
Well heck, the only items of comfort I can remember seeing or using were, a) a mummy or sleeping bag, with standard issue wool blanket you slept on the ground, Cot? What was that?, b) a pup tent or learn to use your poncho, c) extra socks and foot powder, d) a butt load of C-rat’s and if you were lucky and got the C-rat’s with a pack of Kools in ’em, the brothers would trade the moon for ’em.
But what do I know?
The Navy runs that Combat Pay/Tax Free Scam pretty heavy. I was on a Destroyer in the early 90s that went way off the shortest route from point A. to point B. to dodge up into the Adriatic for the last day and first day of consecutive months.
Balrog and Cutie are really hitting the point.
@Cutie– I know what you mean.
Like I said, You’re all talking about REMFs and the like– and if you read the article– he’s saying exactly the same thing– Did HE DESERVE COMBAT PAY FOR BEING IN SUPPLY ON A BASE THAT IS LIKE A SMALL CITY? with a Subway and a Burger King? (I don’t know if he did.) He was showing he understood the diff between base living and field living (imho) and then he went on to drill home the point—
DO OFFICERS AND WHATNOT DESERVE TWO MONTHS COMBAT PAY TO COME GIVE A SPEECH OR INSPECTION ON THE 31st AND 1st OF GIVING MONTHS? is this a scam or not? Does it milk the DoD of funds that could be used more effectively?
I think he was trying to give perspective that had a right to say someone (officers) don’t deserve something they currently recieve.
Maybe the the guy at Victory does deserve the same pay– but does the guy who flies in for two days at victory? Does he deserve the same pay?
Ok, can we all calm the fuck down, now?
This is how it works. It’s not a matter of whether a person thinks that they deserve it, or if they think others deserve it, etc. Did John F-ing Kerry deserve 3 Purple Hearts in 6 months? Does it matter, anymore? Those that come in on the last day and leave on the first day and that qualifies them for combat pay, well…….you are going to have that no matter what, because the regs are put forth to cover everybody, it’s a much too big undertaking to try and pick and choose who is worthy and who isn’t. If a person feels they don’t desrve it, then they can do as I mentioned at the top of this thread. Fobbits get shot at, too, but the funny thing is, there isn’t a way to schedule with the enemy on when that will happen, so therein lies the blanket policy on combat pay. Mortar rounds are indescriminate and the enemy looks at all of us the same way, just as we do them. I doubt Achmed is sitting in his mud hut planning on going after just line units. He could give a fuck. All he cares about is killing us, no matter if it’s in the Valley or on the airbase in Kandahar.
Get over it, people, because I have gone to the funerals of fobbits as well as line unit types. The one thing they had in common was they died as Warriors and Americans.
I agree with most of what you said- except the part where “you’re going to have that”
Really? In 2011 we can’t pay a man for the DAYS (or even week) he was in combat (or a combat zone?) not the calendar months? Crap, we’ve got the technology to pay for the HOUR– but I’m not suggesting we do that.
🙂 Calm the fuck down? Lmao. I was thinking the same thing.
Again. third time– no one is belittling their service or value as Americans and Warriors.
Well, Boo, answer me this; let’s say Johnny gets off the plane, is there for an hour and gets shot at twice and a mortar round lands close buy. Then he boards the plane and flies off; should he get combat pay for only that hour? With thousands of people all over the area, I don’t think that it can be broken down by the hour for combat pay. We have people who weren’t even in a combat zone getting VA benefits for combat related stuff; but you think we can keep track of tens of thousands of troops in theater?? I guess I’m not as optimistic as you on that. It IS the gummint, after all. You know, the same gummint that has billions of dollars disappear and no one knows where they went.
Internet? Mail? Sunlight? WTF? I never had Achmed swimming at 800 feet going BANG with his AK, but I know for damned sure I earned every dime of submarine pay I ever got.
At least we ate better than most–unless we got extended. That happened to a friend of mine on an OP he was on. They were almost out of food when they were ordered back to their area. For three WEEKS, all they had was green “bug juice”, flour and yeast for bread, and 3-bean salad. Yup–3 weeks, green bug and 3-bean salad sandwiches.
That being said, the pay is shitty enough, so if someone gives you a good deal, you TAKE IT.
You win on the gov’t thing, I guess. I guess paying out a shitload is better than guys not getting paid.
I don’t think we’re that far apart on this. so there must be an underlying issue for you Army guys (jonn…) that I’m not getting. 🙂
happy Tuesday. I’ve got a school district to go fight.
Boo,
If you really think about it, it hardly effects anyone. 99.9% of the military that is deployed is there for far longer than a month. It would probably create a bigger headache trying to account for it than it’s worth…and unless things have change that much, it ain’t that much money either. I get the guys sentiment but frankly, he was deployed in a war zone, he earned his pay…
To be clear, I wasn’t criticizing Mr. Cummings, but I know why he wrote it and it wasn’t the same reason that the Post published it. I just wrote that I wouldn’t have written it, especially for the Post.
I found the article because PCutie recommended it according to the Post’s widget, so I knew she’d come in here angry. I have to entertain myself, ya know.
I wasn’t criticizing him, either. I was just pointing out that there are options, of where he can send the extra money to do some real good, if he feels unworthy of receiving combat pay.
I’m with you Jonn, there are just some things you don’t ‘put out there’, if for no other reason than it gives the anti-military cranks an opportunity to whine a little louder.
We had people, especially juniors, in our unit that didn’t feel they deserved the extra pay in country, or the recognition and special treatment we received upon returning to the States. I always shut them down by asking if they would feel better about it if some of our people had died on our deployment, and if so, who specifically they wanted to bestow that ‘honor’ on. We were extremely fortunate in that we only exchanged fire on 2 occasions in very short contacts during our entire 12 months in country (2003-2004). We lost no vehicles or personnel to enemy action despite a couple million logged mission miles that took us on many multiples of trips from Tallil Air Base (Camp Adder) to LSA Anaconda (Joint Base Balad), and all points in between and West while supporting the Multi-National Division. I have the greatest respect for trigger pullers, but my respect is equal for those who support that mission either behind the wheel, the nozzle, or the desk. All together those currently serving still only represent one percent or less of the American population as a whole. Quibbling about the pay seems ridiculous to me.
I think it’s also interesting to note that officially combat pay is called “imminent danger pay” not “combat pay”, and echoing Troopers sentiments, the enemy is an indiscriminate killer. So is the deep blue sea………..
ok, I lost with the district, too.
Did any of you ever eat at the Subway or Burger King on VBC? If so you definitely deserve combat pay. That 12″ goat on flat bread was disgusting. And don’t even get me started on the camel double whopper at BK…………..
Truth be told VBC is fobbit central the closer you get to the big palace. But 152 seperate IDF incidents in 9 months kind of validates combat pay. the real money was the foreign duty pay-$3.50/month…………….
VBC took a missile the last time that I was there for a month TCS, so I guess the combat pay is valid. Apparently Cummings hasn’t made it to the true combat pay boondoggles in the CENTCOM AO. I’ve been to Kuwait (Arifjan and AAS), with a good gym, chow hall, and civilian clothes; Qatar/CENTCOM HQ FWD with dorm rooms with Wi-Fi, a Starbucks, a bar, a great gym, and a good chow hall; Qatar/R&R facility with a bar (but a beer is $6), a Chili’s, and CONEX sleeping facilities; and Saudi Arabia where I was sharing a 4 BR 3 bath house with 3 guys, a bar, an Olympic size swimming pool, a Chinese restaurant, an excellent club, Cuban cigars, and free reign off post.
I see I’m a little late to this conversation, but I really don’t have much to add to the critisms above. I agree with most, of the point of the article, not the practicality of it.
As for Cummings, as an occasional purveyor of his site I do know some of his background. I don’t think he did 15 months, but came in mid tour. Had a platoon in destiny(delta) company, spent 5 months in command, 90 days of which were on IED sweeps(think mainly in Pech), then spent 60 days in the Korengal. If I remember correctly.
My issue with Cummings and his brother, is not his service or even his politics, but his condescension in regards to all things COIN.
His idiotic “War is War” series, where he lumps in various people who believe that the ends justify the means crowd. There are people like that to be sure, but Bing West isn’t one of them. DUMBASS READ HIS BOOK AND YOU WOULD KNOW THAT!!!
If I recall he even had a piece about congressman Peter King’s “Islamic radicals” hearing on capitol Hill which completely missed the point. You can gets Jonn’s take right here for that.
Respect his service not his pontifications.