A Ruger which kicked my ass
I was looking for a perfect concealed carry weapon for my shrinking frame, especially for warmers months. I already have a Glock 30 for the winter months (a ten plus one shot .45 with a 3 and a half-inch barrel) but it’s a little bulky for a summer jaunt to the store. I thought I’d found a good one when I found the Ruger LCR – a double action revolver with five rounds of .357 Magnum and a 1.88″ barrel. Weighing in at 17 ounces with it’s polymer frame, it disappears in my waist band.
So I took it out to my friend’s house yesterday. He’d spotted a black bear on his property and decided he needed some protection while he’s out on his walks on his country manor with his wife, so he wanted to try out my Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum with a ten and a half inch barrel. I brought the .357 to try it out, too.
We happily blasted away with the .44 and my friend was surprised at how easily the hog’s leg handled despite it’s reputation. Then I pulled out the .357. I’ve never had a weapon hurt so much when I fired it. With the full loads of .357, it felt like it broke my right wrist every time I fired. My partners verified it, so it’s not because I’m some kind of sissy. I suspect it’s because of the extremely light weight of the gun, but even the Hogue rubberized grips don’t help much absorbing the shock of Magnum loads.
The thirty-eight special rounds were much easier to take, but I audibly repeated “Ow” with every Magnum shot. We were shooting at paper targets that were over 50 meters away, and the snubbed nosed barrel was much more accurate than I expected, hitting the paper almost every time, not the target but the paper. So, I’ll still carry the revolver, but I think target practice will mostly be with .38. The relative accuracy and concealability save it. Well, that and the fact that it probably hurts more to get shot by the revolver than it does to fire it.
Category: Guns
I’ve had the same experience with S&W airweights. The full house .357 are just plain ignorant to shoot. I still plan on getting an LCR but, like you, will not shoot anything but .38’s through it for practice. I still find myself wanting to try Taurus’s ‘Public Defender’ … just for kicks.
Here is a new concept for carry AND shooting.
http://www.defensereview.com/chiappa-rhino-6-shot-357-magnum-revolver-for-concealed-carry-ccw-applications/
Hope the link works, you may have to copy/paste.
The Chiappa Rhino, .357 barrel shoots from the 6 o’clock position as opposed to the 12 o’clock. Lowering the shooting position cuts down on muzzle flip. The unique cylinder design also adds to the ‘carry’ design. Its gotten good reviews, although a bit pricey.
The .357 Rhino w/2″ barrel should be at gun shows now with the 3″, 4″, 5″, and 6″ versions coming within a couple of months. They have to pass the ATF review and testing first.
… btw, with the 6 o’clock firing position of the cylinder, it concentrates the recoil further down in your hand and your forearm, lessening the ‘ouch’ factor of the short barrel w/heavy load.
There’s some good you-tube video’s available on this firearm.
You could always load your own rounds and back off the gun powder a tad…
Jonn, when you put it to the intended use, you won’t feel a thing except relief that you have it along. Good choice, Sir.
Why a .357? Cause there isn’t a .358…..
I’m not a big fan of hand cannons. I do admit to being in love with the Glock 21 – a .45 that shoots like a .22. If you shoot one AND say ow you will be a sissy, indeed.
Dealing with a bear is another thing altogether… some non-trivial emphasis here. I live with bears.
That aside. A .22 magnum revolver is my carry weapon of choice.
BTW: I practice with a pistol at 15 feet or less. I don’t hunt with the thing, I have long guns for that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.358_Winchester
John Try a walther. not gonna kill your target, but you will probably not feel like each shot would break your wrist
“BTW: I practice with a pistol at 15 feet or less. I don’t hunt with the thing, I have long guns for that.”
Ponsdorf, amen to that!!!
#9
There it is!
Shit, I could have saved you a lot of time and pain. When I started out in Cop Work, we had to use refuckingvolvers.
When we fired some of them with hot loads, it hurt. It took longer to reload them and the “average cop” never got very good at shooting a revovler.
Some of us range masters fought for years…I mean I had a couple of police chiefs who actually said: “we’ll never carry automatics as long as I’m the chief.”
they thought they’d jam too much and they were just idiots who really knew very little about guns…or police work.
So, now when I see a new cop who wants to carry a snub nose revovler I say: “you’ll never carry a revovler as long as I’m the range master.”
I do own revolvers for fun, but not for survival. I can pack and 13 shot Beretta mod 84 in .380 that’s hot enough, easy to control, and hide.
Sig Sauer has a new sub-compact, the P290, that looks like a good choice for concealed carry, even though it’s chambered in that wimpy 9mm. I tried a Tarus Judge, but, gee whiz, that .45 Long Colt round had a kick like a mule. I really wanted to0 like it, but it was just too much. What I’d really like is a better-quality version of a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special; I carried one waaay back in the day, when I worked as an paramedic in some unfriendly areas, and really liked it. It was inexpensive, lightweight, and the round was big enough to do the job but not some high-powered that it broke your hand firing it. Unfortunately, that Bulldog just felt cheap and loose, as did every other one I checked out.
Mancards may be turned in at your local Department of Motor Vehicles M-F between the hours of 9-3. Issuance of Ladysmith .22 hand ejector “M” frame will follow.
Respected Ladies and Gentlemen,
When I was a firearms instructor for my former department, I test fired several weapons for off duty and undercover use. Those light framed revolvers are friggin’ brutal. There is no getting over it. The weight of steel frame N or S will formerly resolve some of the issues of recoil. I still don’t like 44’s or 45 longs, it’s just too much and I don’t need to be that macho. A good steel frame 2″ to 6″ 357 or 38 +P+ will blow a hole in whatever you aim at, and your target won’t get back up. When we converted from Beretta 9’s to Sig Saur 40’s our officer involved shootings went from as many rounds out as you can get out, to one and done. Talk about wrecking a windshield or door panels, it would make your schwanz hard! 380’s are elegant in James Bond kinda way and just as effective as any 9. You guys know its the same round without the powder. I don’t trust glocks, sorry to you die-hards. Salisbury MD P.D. converted to glock 45’s in ’93 and the front firing posts kept flying off, when your buddy looks at you funny over a handgun, stay the frick’ away from them.
Just my two phennings worth. I shall stand by for my reaming!
My biggest problem with PPK style .380s is I have big hands and unless that frame has a larger than average beavertail, I end up leaving chunks of flesh in the rear of the slide.
Jeff,
No reaming, just personal experience: I carry the Glock 23 in .40, and after a couple thousand rounds through it have had no issues. It’s concealable, reliable, and fits my big hands perfectly. It jammed once on me at the range, because I noodle-wristed the 12th round in a rapid-fire sequence. It cleared with a light pull on the slide.
I always had a problem with a Glock. Balance never felt right. I wish there were a smaller double action version of the 1911. For some reason its one of the few pistols that felt right in my hands.
I try to stay away from revolvers as a rule, while arguments can be made for maintenance, the decreasing level of recoil offered by the slide, and increased ammo capacity have always been factors that won out for me. but that’s personal opinion
Doc,
I carried a CZ-75 9mm for awhile, as well as an issue Berretta 9, after issue Ruger and S&W .38s were phased out.
I always thought 1911 frame was great, as it was the first automatic I qual’d on in the Army. It just isn’t easily concealed. Open carry, I’d choose that.
The Glock is now my soulmate, though. If this one dies, I’ll buy the exact same thing. My daughter works at a police department, and all the cops there love the full-size .40 they carry. Bonus, they also have the tools to adjust sights, etc, and I get invited to shoot with them sometimes.
ParaOrd makes a nice concealment sized, 1911 pattern in DAO and you can get it in either .45ACP or 9mm.
The problem with open carry, that has a lot to do with movies, and mainstream media, is that you are automatically assumed to me a nut.
I would invite anyone with both open and concealed to conceal one day, preform a variety of activities and log all reactions that you see. Day two do same activities with open carry. Notice a HUGE difference?
Well, ladies and gentlemen; it’s all about physics. Why does a self-propelled Howitzer have a heavy frame and barrel? That’s right, so it doesn’t launch itself backwards. Have you ever noticed when they fire an arty round on one of the pull behind types that they put legs with pads down before they even think about firing? That’s because there’s not enough weight to keep it in place. When they fire it, it jumps back against the pads.
Same with the “lightweight” framed shootin’ irons in the revolver class. The reason most revolver hand cannons are heavy is to absorb some of that powerful recoil. When you take the weight away, that recoil gets transmitted straight to your hand and your hand/wrist/forearm get to absorb the recoil. In other words; you get to feel it more. My buddy just picked up a .357 snubby for carry. He said it barks pretty hard. Unless you’re into the S&M thing, why the hell would you want to carry something you can’t keep on target for more than one round and you only have 5 shots? Why not carry something that is controllable and can be rapidly fired on target? That’s the whole idea behind it, anyway. Unless it a weiner envy thing, there’s no need to carry a lightweight framed snub-nosed hand cannon. But, that’s just my opinion.
My summer carry is a ported and bobbed .38 stoked with +P’s. With the boot grip, it fits snug in my hand and I can put 5 rounds in the 10-ring at a reasonable distance in a matter of seconds. It’s not sexy, it’s not uber-powerful yet still potent, but it’s light, it works and that’s all I need.
Tossing in my .02; .380’s are jewelry items, Gov Perry got in a luck shot on the coyote he took down. Local here a city cop whose now suspended shot a guy close range with his .380 and killed him one shot to the chest.
As for me? Nothing but .45ACP & the name Colt on it. Reliable, dependable and because they don’t make a .46 8)
My year-round carry is a Springfield Armory .45 V-10, ported. I can put every round in the 9-10 rings, or the head, if I choose. Taken many years of practice, but that’s where I’m at now.
Never thought I’d put the .40 in the gun safe, but that’s where it’s at, that .45 is just fun to shoot.
I am alway hesitant to give unsolicited advice to guys about guns, mainly because most guys who have ever owned one or pulled a trigger consider themselves a de facto expert on the subject and don’t need any damn advice, thank you very much. And I make no claim on being an expert at anything, I’m just a guy who has been carrying pistols for pretty close to twenty years now, on duty, off duty concealed, and duty undercover. I know a thing or two about a thing or two, but I’m no expert. That being said, here’s some friendly (and abbreviated) advice, Jonn: First off, train. I ain’t talking about shooting stumps in the back yard. Pick a reputable trainer and take a course. Take another. Learn how to fight with your gun. Good training ain’t cheap, but quality never is. Second, if you are dead set on carrying a lightweight revolver, (not a great choice, by the way) get a Smith J-frame. They are the most reliable small revolver out there, and can be had in a steel frame, which will be more comfortable to shoot. If you “need” a small .357, look for a Ruger GP101. Both are tried and true, which can’t be said (yet) about your LCR. I tend to shy away from first generation innovations, as they tend to have some bugs that need working out. Your mileage may vary. Third, between your G30 in .45ACP and this Ruger LCR, it looks like you are trying to get the biggest in the smallest, meaning a lot of caliber in a tiny light package, which as you have discovered does not make for a pleasant shooting experience. No fun to shoot means less practice means Jonn is less proficient with his life saving tools. Get something you enjoy shooting, and shoot it. A lot. I will start a shit storm by saying this, but you could do much much worse than investing in a Glock 17 or 19. Stoke it with defensive rounds such as Speer Gold Dot or Winchester Silvertips, you will be good… Read more »
I was a street paramedic for many years, a long time ago, but was only in one full-blown “combat” situation, that impacts on how I think about concealed carry calibers. The gist of it was that a medium-sized male had shot two people, killing one with a .45ACP 1911-clone, and my partner (who carried a S&W .38 Chief’s Special) and I (.44SPL CA Bulldog) inadvertently confronted him leaving the crime scene. We were literally rescued by several police officers, from a department that had just converted to S&W .38’s with FMJ ball ammo (not even +P) after the new police chief made them get rid of their .45ACP 1911’s. (there was a heavy-handed race-based issue involved) 5 police officers hit the man 18 times from less than a 25 to 50 foot range, mostly in mid-torso, but he stayed on his feet, returning fire. He only went down after a sergeant hit him in the head with a shotgun round. It turned out he was “dusted” (high on PCP, a powerful hallucinogenic drug) and the autopsy revealed that he had been lethally wounded by at least five of those rounds, but he would have had to bleed out first for them to have been effective, another 2-3 minutes.
If that situation had been just between him and my partner and me, I am convinced that I would not be here today, neither of us had enough gun to deal with that situation. That is why I am a firm believer in “hand cannons,” and want to select a carry piece based on the caliber availability, with other considerations secondary. That said, I thought the Taurus Judge was exactly what I was looking for, but the recoil truly is unreal, it is hard to bring back down on target. All my opinion, of course, YMMV.
Well, I carry a Springfield XDm .40 with 180gr. jacketed hollow points. 16+1 capacity. I train with it, I am proficient and comfortable shooting it, and it will deliver a sufficient amount of lovin to a perp. Is it kinda big? Yeah, however in this weather (I live in Minnesota) I can get away with it. Summer……well, that’s hit and miss. I am thinking about a compact 1911 style in .45
Old Trooper – I don’t know why, but I keep forgetting about the SA XD’s. I borrowed one at a range last year and liked it, with the sole exception that I couldn’t get the safety off with just my thumb – I’m sure some gunsmith tweaking would take care of that. A .40 JHP is a good round, for this purpose. I’ll have to take another look at those. I see where they make a 3″ sub-compact in .40S&W, that might be a very good choice.
Everything is a compromise. A full size pistol is harder to carry concealed, especially if you’re a skinny little guy like me. A sub-compact anything is typically harder to manage and shoot well, and often times can have reliability issues that their larger brethren don’t have. I try and steer people away from microguns for these reasons.
Invest in a quality concealment rig and dress appropriately, even in warmer weather. Going armed isn’t convenient.
Look to the muzzle end, and you will find that the velocity difference between .357 and .38 SPL (not even plus P)is very small. .357 rounds burn much of their powder outside the barrel, where it does not add to velocity.
I carried revolvers for years, our issue ammo was the first +p+ round – a 110g JHP at 1,000 FPS from a 2″ barrel (I have cronoed them, that is correct). Today, I would choose one of the .38 rounds loads for 2″ barrels, and then train and practice.
.357 in a 2″ is much like putting super premium gas in your 1996 car – sounds good, does nothing for you.
My .02, worth what you paid for it.
Sleuth
I carry the XD 45ACP 4″ and I love it, its a bit heavy for everyday carry but I know that it puts big holes in things that need big holes….
My two favorites are pretty simple.
Pocket gun/ purse carry: Lady Smith, .38’s.
Field carry/ belt, shoulder holster: Auto Ordinance mil-spec 1911 .45.
If I need anything more than that, it goes on a sling over my shoulder! 🙂
You guys carryin’ that lovely Judge- you say the .45 Long has a huge recoil; how is it when you fire the .410 shot? Which version are you using?
Are you chambering 2x.410 then 3.45L for them? Or?
Wolf
@ #25 – Jack; Nah, you won’t be starting a shit storm, lol. Wait for Joe to weigh in off of his publik gumit puter. He is the shit storm…and Welcome home, too!
#33 – Mr. Wolf, friend of mine carries a Judge as backup in his ride (CCW) loads it with 00 .410 only, says the .45 long’s are a bit spendy. I tried it out, 12 rds was ok but the grip is a bit too short for my liking. Think I left some skin on the butt too, lol.
I’ve carried my worked over 1991 Colt comander in .45 acp for years and years without complaint. That being said, as a former instructor myself the advice I’ve read here that is most valuable is also the simplest, get out and shoot, alot, and then some more. Practice, practice, practice, and then do it again. As for advice on what to carry, I’ll leave that to others, in my opinion the best side arm you could possibly have in a conflict is — the one you have with you at the time. Skill is more important than the tool. 😉
.357 in that package is an exercise in self abuse…and missed shot for the vast majority of folks…I know it would be for me.
Carry the biggest most reliable handgun you can control, run and make GOOD hits with, on demand.
My daily is either a G19, G17 or custom 1911 GM or Commander flavor.
I do carry a “mouse gun” from time to time…either a S&W 442 or Mod 60 tucked into the waistband…strictly for quick trips to local stores when I make and informed decision not to carry the 9mm or .45ACP. But mouse gun carry is the exception, not the rule.
As in all things, YMMV, and yeah, what the others said about training.
Jonn…looks like you found something that will kill at “both” ends…A good all around medium frame semi-auto that will get the job done would be something along the SIG-PRO or similar in 357sig,awesome round almost on par with the 357 mag. It will definenitly knock their sorry assed dick in the dirt…
Claymore…if you desire a .380 with a frame that fits you comfortably,try a Bersa .380…I too have giant Ham hands that get “bit” on occasion….
And I will reinterate what others have said…Practice, practice, practice….