VoteVets on Cordoba House
I hinted in the TAH Facebook Fan page about this the other day. Those peckerwoods at VoteVets have decided that President Obama’s endorsement of the building of the Cordoba House is the greenlight they need to weigh-in on the issue. First Tony Camerino, VoteVets member who blogs at VetsVoice writes in the Huffington Post;
Imagine an al Qaeda recruiter attempting to sway a potential charge by citing an imaginary American war against Muslims but having to face the counterargument that Americans built a Muslim community center near the site of the former Twin Towers.
Yeah, that’s just how any al Qaeda recruiter would phrase the situation. Or maybe, more likely, an al Qaeda recruiter would point out to a prospective recruit that they’re winning against the Americans since we acquiesced on this important issue. But this isn’t the first time Camerino has used his former profession as an interrogator to lend credence to the president’s policies using his position at the Soros Foundation.
Then we have little Jon Soltz, also writing in the Huffington Post about the issue – of course, the Army captain who attacked a young sergeant at the Yearly Kos three years ago pleads with veterans to sign his petition and support the project;
when we signed up for service, we swore to uphold the Constitution. For all the talk these days from some quarters about the importance of protecting the Constitution and allowing the free market to work unfettered, those same people are fighting against a person’s right to buy property and worship freely. Our duty to protect the Constitution doesn’t end when our service does. It’s up to us to stand up for the right for all Americans to enjoy the Constitutional freedoms that so many around the world don’t have.
Aside from the fact that the issue isn’t about religious freedom (the Bill of Rights was written to protect citizens from the government…not from each other…so far the government hasn’t interfered, so Soltz should really avoid a career in law), it’s about common decency and mutual respect.
The letter Jon Soltz wants veterans to sign is addressed to Sharif El-Gamal, the developer of the planned Cordoba House – yes, it’s a letter of support to the intended beneficiaries of the facility. Quoting from Tony Camerino Soltz writes in that letter;
…allowing the Community Center to move forward will deal a blow to the propaganda of al Qaeda and Islamist extremists….
Isn’t that logic so naive that you just want to run out and buy Soltz a teddy bear?
And for an added bonus, Vets Today’s Robert Hanafin urges his robots to sign the VV letter to deal a blow against the Judeo-Christian Crusade;
And Hanafin hopes that IVAW will take up the mantle of Vote Vets, too, with their “thousands” of members. And all the crazy intersects at Tony Camerino and Jon Soltz. yeah, let me sign that letter and be associated with those clowns.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Bloggers, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Phony soldiers, Usual Suspects
It’s official. Vote Vets has completely gone around the fucking bend.
Yup. There are none so blinf as those who cannot see. Sigh.
I may just have to take that Crusader picture and use it as my profile picture on Facebook….
If they can line up the IAVA behind it, they’ll have it perfected.
The thing that kills me is people, even on the right, pushing the absurd notion that allowing the mosque to be built will be some sort of blow to nutjob recruiting. To make that argument is to ignore the conquest-driven nature of our enemies, the nature that wants this mosque in this place specifically so it can be used as an example of Islamic conquest of America.
Quisling, Jane Fonda wannabes.
Here’s Elaine Brower who’s now leading the charge FOR the Cordoba Center. (video of here on the site)
http://www.stopislamophobia.org/
Note she thinks that anyone who’s against the Cordoba House is a bigot.
And, of course, she never misses the opportunity to inject her son’s military service to justify her own hatred.
Also, as you can tell from her YouTube videos, she was clearly at the Pro-Mosque protest the entire time.
http://www.youtube.com/user/elainebrower
Yet in the interview, she attempts to say she witnessed the “hate” from the Anti-Mosque protest. I didn’t know she had the powers to be in two different places at the same time.
Now if only she could hold the camera steady, maybe she’ll be able to shoot ONE decent video.
I wonder about people who join the military to “defend our freedoms” and then come back home to spit upon those same freedoms.
I mean, of course, people like Jonn Lilyea.
Alright, who the hell left the “Welcome Ri-Tards” mat out on the front porch again?
Would you prefer we were just compliant little sheep? Does it not bother you that nearly 3 out of 4 Americans oppose this travesty?
It does bother me that many people in this country are bigots, yes. Does it bother you?
Islam is your enemy unless you are a muslim. It isn’t hard to figure out; just read the Quran and Sharia. There are no moderate muslims, just muslims that want to deceive rather than come right out and say they want to kill you. Ignore this at your own risk.
I could just as easily say “Christianity is your enemy unless you are a christian. It isn’t hard to figure out, just read the Bible. There are no moderate christians, just christians that want to deceive rather than come right out and say they want to kill you. Ignore this at your own risk.” and I’d be just as accurate as you are.
Tell ya what, douchebag–are you gonna change it by falsely accusing people of shit? Have a nice day, swoop and poop.
Am I going to change what by accusing who of what?
By the way, I’m pleased to see that there are places on the Internet where people of differing beliefs and ideals can discuss weighty issues without resorting to petty insults and vulgar outbursts.
Clement, I hereby challenge you to back your BS up. Find me Christian (read: not irrelevant Old Testament dicta to a group of people from well prior to the advent of Christianity) equivalents of each of the “violence upon non-believers” suras listed here. While you’re at it, since you must, obviously, know both Islam and Christianity inside and out to have made your above statements, Christian equivalents to the houris and Sharia would also be nice.
No, I don’t expect you to be sufficiently honest to actually put up or shut up. It’s much easier to continue calling people bigots for being concerned that Muslims have a religious commandment to lie to non-believers in furtherance of the dominance of Islam, that the GZ Mosque’s head, Rauf, has a history of using huge amounts of foreign funding to put up mosques and is an apologist for Hamas and bin Laden, that 80% of mosques back in 1999 (that was before we provoked Muslims with our invasion of their lands into no choice but to attack us, you may recall) were controlled or funded by Wahabist organizations (Wahabi would be the Islamic doctrine exported by Saudi Arabia and notable for its influence on Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood, among others). Why listen to people’s valid concerns when you can just label them “ignorable”?
Cortillaen,
Stop using all those facts and stuff, that’s not a fair fight…
By the way, I’m pleased to see that there are places on the Internet where people of differing beliefs and ideals can discuss weighty issues without resorting to petty insults and vulgar outbursts.
Please let me point out your first comment….
I wonder about people who join the military to “defend our freedoms” and then come back home to spit upon those same freedoms.
I mean, of course, people like Jonn Lilyea.
Let me know when you get past the petty insults….assmunch!
“Find me Christian (read: not irrelevant Old Testament dicta to a group of people from well prior to the advent of Christianity)”
That’s very clever, you must feel quite pleased with yourself. Moving on, your criticism of this guy is that he uses foreign funding for mosques? Wow, I guess that’s bad, somehow?
You then criticize him for being an apologist for Hamas, (a creation of Israel) and bin Laden (who who owes his success to the USA and our good buddies in Saudi Arabia). However, what he actually did was decline to comment on a report describing Hamas as a terrorist organization, and said about the 9/11 attacks, “…the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.” Which is essentially correct.
You then go on to mention our good buddies in Saudi Arabia, who spend the money we give them on funding religious extremism. Since we’re giving them the money to do so, are we then terrorists?
Regarding my first comment, I will quote from the article, and translate into common English. “…an al Qaeda recruiter would point out to a prospective recruit that they’re winning against the Americans since we acquiesced on this important issue” (Translation: Upholding liberty is defeat). “…the issue isn’t about religious freedom…” (Translation: The right to practice your religion ends where my prejudices begin). “…it’s about common decency and mutual respect.” (Translation: My morals are better than your morals; you have to respect me, but I don’t have to respect you.)
Furthermore, “peckerwoods”, “robots”, “crazy”, “clowns” (Translation: Anyone who disagrees with me is an insane electromechanical construct with a big red nose and floppy shoes who has European ancestry, is of low economic and educational status and lives in the rural South).
Maybe “spit upon” was a tad hyperbolic. How does “fart in the general direction of” rub you?
How does, “Eat a steaming bag of dicks” rub you? Not that it’s anything unusual to you, I would imagine.
The assclowns at “Vote Vets” have a very selective view of history. The efforts of the Crusaders were a direct response to the MUSLIM Ottoman Empire that swathed a path of allah-inpired death and destruction across North Africa, the Mediterranian, Western Asia, and Southeastern Europe. Mohammad declared war on the “infidel” in 692AD. In 1300, the Ottoman Turks started their bloody quest for a Caliphate.
“Furthermore, “peckerwoods”, “robots”, “crazy”, “clowns” (Translation: Anyone who disagrees with me is an insane electromechanical construct with a big red nose and floppy shoes who has European ancestry, is of low economic and educational status and lives in the rural South).”
Oh dear, it seems we have a real upper crust effete in our midst. Clement Cherlin took time out of his busy day just to come on here and let us know what peasants we are. But, what can one expect from a snot-nosed hippie liberal living in an Upper East Side penthouse apartment, swilling $1000 champagne, snorting cocaine off of a pane of Versailles glass and guffawing at the lowly peasants who go about their lives while he mocks them from fifty stories above. We’re just lowlife trailer trash with no clue as to what’s good for us.
Clement
“…it’s about common decency and mutual respect.” (Translation: My morals are better than your morals; you have to respect me, but I don’t have to respect you.)
Exactly how many churches did we put up in Bagdad? We don’t have to respect them? Are you serious? When I was in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq all of our medical vehicles were repainted from a Red Cross to a red crescent. Any bibles we brought that had any Christian religious image on the cover (read: Cross) were confiscated and we were fortunately, able to get some that had no crosses on it nor were they even refered to as bibles. Plus all of the Chaplains….excuse me, Christian and Jewish Chaplains only, were not allowed to wear their insignia of crosses or star of David.
We did all of this out of disrespect of course.
And to top it all off, while complaining about moral superiority, you’re claiming just that for yourself. Are you still wondering why there was some pushback to your assine comments???
It’s real simple. Let them build the Cordoba Center. One of two things will happen: they’ll play nice, or they won’t.
We’ll either be pleasantly surprised, or we’ll have the pleasure of saying “I told you so.”
That will be AFTER we clean up whatever gets blown to Hell, of course.
“That’s very clever, you must feel quite pleased with yourself. Moving on…” Right, ignore the demand that you offer any shred of proof of your earlier claims. That shows a strong, well thought-out position. It’s not my fault that you have already proven so disingenuous that I felt compelled to include a caveat ruling out the irrelevant examples about a group of distinctly non-Christian faith that otherwise would have undoubtedly been your response. Oh well, I suppose I get to call you a liar by default since you refuse to support your claim. Thanks for that. “…your criticism of this guy is that he uses foreign funding for mosques? Wow, I guess that’s bad, somehow?” It is when he lies about it and refuses to disclose those donors for decades (current and prior NY mosque, respectively, although both look to be applicable to the current one). “However, what he actually did was decline to comment on a report describing Hamas as a terrorist organization…” What, you aren’t going to tell the whole story? No, of course not; that might ruin your wholly false narrative, liar (thanks again). He didn’t just decline to comment. He, as I said, refused to comment when asked if Hamas was a terrorist organization not once, not twice, but three times (link includes audio of the interview in question), accusing the questioner of trying to “killing the messenger”. Yeah, just a wee bit different than “declin[ing] to comment”, but don’t let that stop you. “[Rauf] said about the 9/11 attacks, “…the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.” Which is essentially correct.” Okay, and what part of this makes him (and, since you just had to interject, you) not an apologist for Al-qaeda? He (and you) is rationalizing a despicable act in defense of the perpetrators, trying to shift the blame onto other parties. That is literally the definition of an “apologist”. Another point you have conceded to me, liar (right, no more thank you’s; just infer their existence). “You then go on to mention our good buddies in Saudi Arabia, who… Read more »
“It does bother me that many people in this country are bigots, yes. Does it bother you?”
Not really bigots, just intelligent and aware enough to:
1. Know the enemy…who he is, what he wants, and how he plans to accomplish same.
2. Know that throughout history, the enemy has built his houses of worship upon the ruins of churches and synagogues in those lands he has conquered. And as so eloquently pointed out in the preceding post, much of the funding for mosques and Islamic schools in the US comes from radical Wahabi/Salafist organizations. You feel good about that?
3. Know that by resisting the enemy by force of arms in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, etc., and by combating his propaganda and mis-information here at home, we project strength. Yeah…not everyone in this country is a sheep.
Unlike you, Clem, there are plenty of warriors who do not intend for the enemy (and so you understand, the enemy is radical, fundamentalist Islam) to succeed in the US or anywhere else where we have vital national interests.
And I promise you, they do not “come back home to spit upon those same freedoms.” We just clearly understand the intent and capabilities of the threat where you, obviously, do not.
So enlighten us…have you served…worn the uniform and placed yourself in harms way?
You sure seem to consider yourself an expert in these matters…but then, if you haven’t laid it all on the line, you can just shut your cock-holster…we’re not buying any of your bullshit.
@Cortillaen
“irrelevant examples about a group of distinctly non-Christian faith that otherwise would have undoubtedly been your response”
Matthew 5:18 disagrees with you. You might want to invest in a copy of the Bible, I’m sure it would serve you well.
‘literally the definition of an “apologist”’
A dictionary, too.
“I have no intention of making any further attempts at reasoning with you.”
That’s the spirit, just declare “Mission Accomplished” and walk away.
NHSparky: “How does, “Eat a steaming bag of dicks” rub you? Not that it’s anything unusual to you, I would imagine.”
GI JANE: “snot-nosed hippie liberal”
Old Tanker: “assmunch!”
Cortillaen: “disingenuous”, “liar”, “liar”, “liar”, “liar”
Stay classy, guys.
Clement:
Other than exercising your right to bait conservatives in general, and soldiers in particular…
Was there something you wanted to say?
Clement:
…and in your first post (#9), you attack Jonn specifically.
Axe to grind, friend?
I’ll try to state my point as clearly as possible.
John says that “…an al Qaeda recruiter would point out to a prospective recruit that they’re winning against the Americans since we acquiesced on this important issue.”
Here he makes an equivalence between standing up for our principles and giving in to terrorism.
Further, “Aside from the fact that the issue isn’t about religious freedom (the Bill of Rights was written to protect citizens from the government…not from each other…so far the government hasn’t interfered, so Soltz should really avoid a career in law), it’s about common decency and mutual respect.”
Yes, “so far the government hasn’t interfered”, but not for lack of trying on the part of opponents of Cordoba House. They tried to get the building declared a “historical landmark” on specious grounds and were denied. But they haven’t given up.
“The conservative public-interest law firm the American Center for Law and Justice, founded in 1990 by evangelist Pat Robertson, vowed to fight Tuesday’s decision in court.”
So the first part of that statement is incorrect. What about the second part? Hmm, it implies that building a community center in Manhattan that includes a mosque is indecent and disrespectful. I’ll let Dr. Ron Paul answer that one for me: “According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives’ aggressive wars.”
To summarize:
Allowing Park51 to be built means that al Qaeda is winning. (Incorrect: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/30/taliban-using-mosque-controversy-to-recruit.html)
Religious freedom is not at issue (Incorrect: http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2010/08/mosque_near_world_trade_center.html)
Building Park51 violates common decency and mutual respect (Incorrect: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=1077)
So, John has no facts or logic behind him and so resorts to personal insults to smear his opponents.
However, in hindsight, my first comment was incorrect, and insensitive. I apologize. I did not mean to imply that Jonn Lilyea is unpatriotic.
Well, slick, your link to Newsweak doesn’t work, no surprise for a lefty rag that sold for a whopping $1.00. And no, religious freedom has nothing to do with the objections to the “Cordoba Center”, the intertubes are your friend, learn to search for articles from other than leftist websites.
And RonPaul? Really?
In case anyone is taken in by the liar’s further half-truths, his frantic search for “law” in the New Testament turned up a passage from the Sermon on the Mount referring to the Ten Commandments, not a legal structure resembling Sharia as was requested.
As for the summary, interesting how one calls others a bigot for believing in their opinions, yet feels wholly justified in declaring those opinions “incorrect” as though it were a factual matter.
Fixed links.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/30/taliban-using-mosque-controversy-to-recruit.html
http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2010/08/mosque_near_world_trade_center.html
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=1077
I didn’t know Ron Paul was a leftist. Is Michael Bloomberg a leftist too?
And please do try to explain to me how your concept of “religious freedom” is compatible with telling people that they aren’t free to do something solely because of what religion they belong to. Don’t feel a need to hurry, I’ll wait while you fabricate an excuse.
So whens the Catholic church , Jewish Temple, and Baptist church gonna be built in Mecca Clement. Why don’t you go sell some Bibles a block or 2 from that big black rock thingie. Lets see just how tolerant and freedom loving the Muzzies really are. Oh by the way jackwagon, the arguement IS NOT ABOUT FREEDOM OF RELIGION ITS ABOUT RESPECT AND SACRED GROUND where 3000 people were murdered by RADICAL MOSLEMS. But of course you probably don’t know the first thing about sacrifice or respect.
@Cortillaen
I apologize for my earlier lack of clarity. Simply acquiring a Bible and a dictionary is insufficient; you have to open them and read them in order for them to work.
Along with opening said Bible and other literary works one most open thier hearts and minds and be prepared for enlightenment. As per asking the Holy Spirit for a blessing. Frankly I find the whole religious argument quite tiring, as I said before its not about Religious Freedom. I mean ,like 100 Mosques in Manehatten aren’t enough? Sorry about spellng, its late. Hell, Patterson practically offered to give them land just not there near Ground Zero. Why is the Greek Orthodox church still not being rebuilt. While the Victory Mosque gets the fast track? Hmmm! Well this horse has been well and truely beat to death. Night all.
Clement Cherlin Says:
August 30th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
“Stay classy guys”
Oh, we got lots of class to match yours:
“I wonder about people who join the military to “defend our freedoms” and then come back home to spit upon those same freedoms.
I mean, of course, people like Jonn Lilyea.”
“Furthermore, “peckerwoods”, “robots”, “crazy”, “clowns” (Translation: Anyone who disagrees with me is an insane electromechanical construct with a big red nose and floppy shoes who has European ancestry, is of low economic and educational status and lives in the rural South).
Maybe “spit upon” was a tad hyperbolic. How does “fart in the general direction of” rub you?”
How does “fuck off” rub you?
@Clement Cherlin:
“And please do try to explain to me how your concept of “religious freedom” is compatible with telling people that they aren’t free to do something solely because of what religion they belong to. Don’t feel a need to hurry, I’ll wait while you fabricate an excuse.”
Scuse the fuck outta me, but last I checked, there were more mosques in this country than churches and synagogues in Saudi Arabia. Tell you what, when the Arab/Islamic nation states stop discriminating (killing, beheading, raping, homicide bombing) people solely becasue of what religion they belong to, then you can regurgitate your bullshit with at least a modicum of credibility. Until then, you’re just another Dhimmi apologist with his head up his ass.
It wouldn’t be so bad if they used these mosques as places to worship peacefully instead of recruiting centers for the next crop of terrorists.
Some links for your edification:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/26762
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/08/imam-raufs-newly-discovered-explosive-audio-tapes.html
http://article.nationalreview.com/438616/raufs-dawa-from-the-world-trade-center-rubble/andrew-c-mccarthy
“Peaceful religion” of Islamn, my ass.
Stay classy, Clement. And do come up with some excuses.