Happiness Is A Belt-Fed Weapon
Around the time I was seperating from the Marine Corps, there was a lot of talk in infantry units about how the Marine Corps was trying to replace the SAW in line infantry fireteams with a project called the Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR). Last month, the Marine Corps selected what is essentially an HK-416 with a longer, heavier barrel as the IAR. The Marines Corps says that it will not completely phase out the SAW from its inventory, keeping it around for tasks such as base security and for use on vehicles. Some of the stuff I have read on the IAR has stated that the SAW will still be in an infantry battalion’s T/O &E, but it wasn’t clear on how it would be employed. Even though the Commandant has expressed doubts about the program, the IAR is waiting on approval for production from Congress. The Army will not be participating in the IAR program.
I think the Marine Corps is making an incredibly stupid decision pursuing the IAR as a replacement for the SAW. The intent behind removing the SAW from the rifle squad is to increase the mobility and speed of the squad by replacing the “heavy” and “cumbersome” SAW with something lighter. According to the Marine Corps Times, when Marines pushed into Baghdad in 2003, the average fighting load was about 50 lbs. Now that is what I call a “Quantico stat” (meaning it came from some pogue’s office in Quantico) so I am going to add 20 lbs to that number. In 2009, Marines were going into battle in Iraq and Afghanistan with close to 90 lbs (110 lbs) of gear on average. Every grunt that has deployed to either OIF and OEF in the last couple years knows damn well that the majority of that weight increase has come from the increased weight of body armor and other personal protective equipment (PPE). E-SAPIs, side SAPIS, neck protectors, groin protectors (I’m not opposed to this one), nape protectors… I’m sure there is other people here that could add to the list. All these things have added a tremendous amount of weight to the grunt’s fighting load. Not to mention that the Modular Tactical Vest (MTV), which replaced the Interceptor in Marine Corps service last year, is two pounds heavier than the Interceptor and restricts movement more than the Interceptor and is much more difficult to put on. Some units are deploying with lighter plate carriers to Afghanistan but almost everybody heading over to Helmand still has to haul their MTV. So whats weighing down the rifle squad more? 60 lbs of PPE per Marine or 2 or 3 17 lb SAWs with about 30 lbs of ammo each distributed among the squad?
The SAW is not perfect. It is heavy and anybody that has humped one knows its a beast. It is a lot harder to maintain than an M4 or M16 and it is definitely a lot less reliable. Nobody can dispute however that the SAW, when properly employed, can dish out an incredible amount of firepower and adds a lot of lethality to a rifle squad. The Marine Corps understood this when it introduced the SAW and that is why over the last twenty years the Marine Corps has built the rifle squad and fireteam around the SAW. Removing the SAW from the infantry will require that the Marine Corps completely rethink how the fireteam is employed and retrain infantry unit leaders. More dangerously, it will reduce the lethality of Marines operating in Afghanistan where often the only thing that has saved Marines from being overrun is a massive amount of fire superiority, which the SAW provides.
The IAR is unforunately just another bullet on a list of bad decisions that Marine Corps has made about gear over the last few years. The Lightweight Helmet, while superior to the old PAGST, is still heavier than the Army’s MICH and has a lower cut which makes it harder to shoot in the prone (which is while most Marine Corps Sniper and Recon units use the MICH). The ILBE pack, while probably great for hippies hiking the Appalachian Trail, doesn’t work well with body armor. Worse the Marine Corps has recognized this and is going back to the MOLLE which the Marines Corps replaced years ago because of its crappy plastic frame. I’ve already talked about the MTV.
If the Marine Corps wants to reduce weight and increase mobility, invest in developing lighter body armor and synthetic materials to use to build new SAWs which are lighter than current models. The Army is already doing it with the 240 and other weapons. The Commandant thinks this is a stupid idea, but since he is playing politics with this decision just like he did with the MTV, he is just going to sit back and let System Command make the decision.
No doubt replacing the SAW will increase speed and mobility. It will also make it easier to run away from a fight when you are outgunned.
Category: Military issues
Your last statement says it all…
There’s so much bouncing around in my head on this one. I was an 11b, so my take on marine doctrine maybe take a misstep, so thankfully you bastards will correct me.
The Marines in afghan were carrying the m-16 still, reasoning being they wanted the longer barrel for better accuracy? The switch to the m-s would lighten the load for more then just the one saw gunner per squad, and would make maneuvering in and out of the armored vehicles that much easier. Maybe they’ve already made that switch, I don’t know.
Secondly, while in the ‘ghan w/ tso we had two squads of guys put together for a “special” mission and we immediately called these guys ninjas. Now these ninjas got the newest version of the saw and the 240b, and there’s no other way to describe these but as bad ass. The saw was no bigger then an m4, and the 240 was no bigger then a regular saw. You would think these versions would proliferate the services as updates to current gear then to switch platforms completely and requiring a force wide tactical retrain.
My disclaimer is this all was back in 05, so I may be dated.
Team America, Fug Yeah!
Again, like VT Woody, this may be dated.
Some time back, I heard of a body armor called “Dragon Scales”. SUpposed to be lighter-stronger-etc. Has this been investigated by the services? Is it really any better, to help out the “legs” in reducing their combat load?
Dragon Scale kept failing the temperature test, meaning the resin that holds the ‘scales’ in place melts above 120 degrees.
The bigger problem with the weight and excessive body armor is that the army (and Marines) are equipping every soldier and vehicle based on Iraq conditions. If you are doing COIN in urban areas, then all the armor makes sense. But if we ever have to fight a conventional battle with a decent sized country (Iran or North Korea anyone) we will be so weighted down with armor that we will hardly be able to move.
Dragonscale also had an issue with failure after exposure to oil/lubrication. Seems the resin didn’t like that either.
Which confuses me….who’s lubing up in their rack with body armor on??!
B Woodman –
The armor was called Dragonskin. The concept was better, but the company’s execution of it was not. Basically, they cut costs in the adhesive they used to keep the “scales” in place, which resulted in the “scales” detaching and collecting at the bottom of the armor in high heat conditions…like Iraq or Afghanistan.
There were some controversial tests run by the Army that the armor failed, but there is another company out there making similar armor with high end adhesives. That stuff may or may not be the real deal.
The Army has changed tremendously since I was a young 11B pushing into Baghdad almost seven years ago. I carried the SAW and despite a very inconvenient feeding problem during an ambush (20+ hours on the back of an LMTV in open desert with no chance to clean or lube will do that to a weapon) it is still my favorite light Infantry weapon to this day. We had the old M5 collapsible stock and the long barrels, had to carry spare barrels everywhere (I think the powers that be have stopped that practice now) and still had all the fun of entering and clearing buildings and rooms just like our brothers with M4s. A rough estimate of my weight in Baghdad is as follows: M249 w/ammo, PEQ-2A, Sure-Fire, and M145 MGO: 25 lbs 1000 rounds of spare ammo: 35 lbs Interceptor w/plates but none of the other bs (groin, neck, throat protectors): 20+ lbs Spare barrel w/bag: 7 lbs Squad and personal equipment: 10-20 lbs That said, I was sucking and loved every minute of it. As a junior member of the squad, we’d conduct NBC training in Kuwait prior to the invasion. One of the smart-ass Specialist Grenadiers or Riflemen would tell me I would be the first to demask to ensure all is clear. I’d mouth back that I carried the most casualty producing weapon and was the least expendable. If it came down to it, I’d remind them that they had never carried the SAW, and that I was one of the better gunners. My squad leader would agree and I’d theoretically live through training. I even had my plan in case I had a failure to fire in a room clearing situation. Throw the SAW at the enemy to catch them off-guard and then bludgeon them to death with the spare barrel. Never did get permission to weld a bayonet lug on the spare barrel, despite the fact that everyone had to take bayonets to Kuwait. I also fondly remember doing reflexive fire exercises with the SAW. I can’t say the Rakkasans had the best… Read more »
This change sounds BAR-esque backwards to my ears. The comments about WAY too much PPE & kevelar add ons in Asscrackistan are spot on. Our General Officers need to be put on an exercise in the Rockies as skill level 1 11Bravos for this to penetrate their fossilized brains IMO.
God I’m old; we had the tried and true, bringer of death and destruction, spitter of flame and glory, M60. That’s right boys and girls, the grandaddy of squad weapons, barking fire and throwing out 7.62x51mm of love/hate relationship to all who crossed its path. Nuthin says luvin like a pissed off M60.
m2126, I can’t believe it’s been that long either. Although my division missed the push (stupid turkey), I carried a SAW for a year, but because we were low speed high drag mech pukes, we had long buttstock long barrel SAWs… At least had the full stocks not the coat hangers.
I loved my SAW, I was able to use it as a rifle for clearing houses and as a light machine gun for local support by fire.
The only problem I had with my SAW was when I was in Kuwait I reassembled it with the firing pin spring in backwards. At least is went cha-chunk on the zero range.
I don’t know why they want to replace it.
Ditto the load-out.
I carried 2X 100 round soft drums (in addition to the 100 round soft drum that I carried on the gun loaded), 1X 200 round hard drum, and 10 m-16 mags. With that load out I could support my automatic fire and provide mags to the squad in a pinch. Luckily my SAW/my ability as a machine gunner, was capable of running M-16 mags without a problem. The soft drums were a lot quieter and would give a lot before falling off, the only down side is that the rounds would become miss-aligned and would have to be checked daily.
After a few months I didn’t even notice all of that weight and felt naked without it.
I never thought my SAW limited my mobility or decreased my stamina.
Simply put, I cannot think of another weapon that regular forces have access to (which excludes the M-60 E4) that I would rather have when people want to kill me.
Sorry!
I meant to get your screen name correct fm2176!
You and me both, OldTrooper. I was just thinking the same thing. The 60 was about 35 lbs unloaded and no bipod, iirc. After beaucoup hours of patrolling, it was kicking my butt like a red headed step child.
So 17 lbs vs 35 lbs … if SAW is 5.56, volume of fire is equivalent, but less penetration and knock down power … still, quantity has a quality all of it’s own. Seems a no brainer, what’s this guy thinking?
My condolences to the grunts in the Corps. Alas …
Seems to me that there has been way too much of REMFs, gee whiz people and other unqualified types making dumb decisions that they personally don’t have to live with. Much better IMO, use grunts fresh off of the line, rotated every six months to avoid too much accommodation, closely involved in all phases of development and testing to keep ’em honest and keep it REAL.
So, perhaps going old school might be a solution? I may be sounding quite naive, but there’s lots of precedence, going back to our own Civil War, for this.
I’m talking about the venerable old Pack Mule. Why not get back to letting the mule hump the rucksacks, spare ammo, etc. Even better, drop the rucks and go with the old butt pack for short-duration missions.
If the unit gets stuck somewhere, and needs to spend the night, another day, etc, have the mules bring up the extra gear. They can be following a short distance (couple of klicks, maybe) behind the unit.
Yes, it means adding veterinarians and teamsters to the unit(s), but mules can carry fair-sized loads, are cheaper than vehicles, and can go places where only they and people can.
I’m sure USMC and others will come up with a thousand reasons why it wouldn’t work, but it HAS worked in other conflicts, and pretty well, too.
I guess my main point is that perhaps, if greater loads are to be the norm, then it’s time to look at staging the gear so that the grunt only needs to carry what is actually needed for the then and now, and the rest can be on standby to be brought up if/when needed.
respects,
AW1 Tim,
Actually the Marine Corps has been training Marines to use pack mules for the last couple of years now. Usually when a battalion goes to Mountain Warfare Training in Bridgeport, a couple of guys from each platoon are pull aside for a week long course on how to employ pack mules. My battalion had Marines that were “pack mule qualified” even though we wound up in Iraq.
“I’m talking about the venerable old Pack Mule.”
Yup & the WWII Rangers used wheeled carts to move their mortars during tactical road marches. For the record I am NOT a Ranger, just a WWII history buff.
I had two hundred round “nutsacks”, and four spare plastic drums. Kept a 200 round drum in the SAW during the invasion due to the fact that I did not have space to carry it anywhere else. That thing dumped on me in a firefight, leaving me wrapping the rounds over the gun and around my arm like a left-handed Rambo. Later, I did not have as much ammo and was able to keep a soft drum on the gun. Speaking of which, we also got some 200-round soft drums. Those were a pain to keep the ammo and links aligned in, and I packed mine away.
AW Tim, I think I read something about mules being used in the early days of OEF. It is a simple but effective solution to travel long distances over rough terrain. I am a big Mule fan, not just because I went to college with the mule as its mascot. http://www.ucmo.edu/athletics/general/mascot.cfm
We had donkey support once to carry our rucks up a hill in Afghanistan (early 2006), but the animals collapsed under the weight and refused to move…
I carried a SAW for the second half of my tour. I hated them in training, but grew to love it in theater. I never had it jam on me, and I would rather clean a SAW than an M-16.
OK, it’s only 5.56, but when you are on the receiving end of fire, you don’t duck any less because it sounds like a small bullet.
This Ranger Up shirt seems apropos; my son got it for me for Christmas: http://www.rangerup.com/ishoot.html
Sig
Sig,
Although in my day the M60 ruled as a belt-fed weapon, regardless of the calibre, quantity has a quality all it’s own.
When you are putting several hundred rounds a minute downrange, it doesn’t really matter what the calibre is, eh?
God Bless the SAW.
I will say this, however, I am probably one of the last US servicemen to qualify with the BAR. I did so with the Icelandic Self Defense Forces back in the late 1970’s.
There was a certain satisfaction to slamming that magazine home, and letting loose with a stream of NATO rounds that bred confidence in one’s abilities, and that of his comrades.
Respects,
“We had donkey support once to carry our rucks up a hill in Afghanistan (early 2006), but the animals collapsed under the weight and refused to move…”
Donkeys or mules alike, no more than 1/3 of the body weight of the animal can be expected to be hauled by the pack animal. This is old Army mule skinner lore. Merrill’s Marauders and troops in Italy used mules. If you watch documentaries on the Marauders, David Quaid shot some excellent footage of Marauders hauling saddles when the mountains were too steep for the mules!
http://www.combatcamera.org/roster/iccaroster.php#Q
With havin so much content do you ever run into any problems of plagorism or copyright violation? My site has a lot of exclusive content I’ve either authored myself or outsourced but it looks like a lot of it is popping it up all over the web without my permission. Do you know any ways to help protect against content from being stolen? I’d really appreciate it.
Hi. Article is fantastic.