Fear mongering
I’ve heard the President and Democrat Congressional leaders charge the Right with fear mongering among the citzenry. Well, I got this in an email yesterday from Organizing For America and I forgot about it until I read Gary’s comment in the preceding post.
If that’s not fear mongering, I don’t know fear mongering.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Health Care debate
After all the blackmail, bribes, and threats, fear mongering in a natural next step. Worst president ever is trying to outdo himself in stupid. There in no way a fair federal grand jury wouldn’t indict this entire administration and every democrat in congress for fraud on top of several cases of felony bribery/accepting bribes. All any bad lawyer would need to convict is out here on tape and in written form. The next administration is going to have a field day destroying these criminals and forcing them onto welfare.
I am not liking this. I was hoping I was wrong about Comrade Obama, but it doesn’t look good.
I wonder how many calls against the healthcare bill have been made? When Cap and Tax passed the House got about 10-1 calls against it, but somehow still passed it. I know that my senators have been getting a lot of calls against this abomination of a healthcare bill. There actually is talk that McCaskill is going to vote against it. It would be funny if they work so hard getting Nelson and Lieberman to switch then lose a bunch of others because of their constituents.
In case you missed it Jonn, fear mongoring is saying over and over that we have to attack a third world country that didn’t attack us, we will have mushroom clouds over American cities.
HM2(FMF/SW)Ret., in case you missed it;
The United States secretly shipped out of Iraq more than 500 tons of low-grade uranium dating back to the Saddam Hussein era, the Pentagon said Monday.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/
It’s easy to be cavalier about a dodged bullet, isn’t it?
HM2(FMF/SW)Ret:
Are you giving Bill Clinton and the Dems a hard time. Yes, they did attack Sudan, Afghanistan and Iraq, but the missile strikes didn’t keep the extremists from continuing their attacks against us.
Geez, if only Saddam was still in power. It would be really fun to watch a nuclear arms race between Iraq and Iran. Yea, as if Iran possibly getting a nuke isn’t bad enough.
Nope, didn’t miss it. Just did more research than you did.
From the article you sent:
“…yellowcake uranium is a commonly traded commodity used for nuclear power generation. It is not enriched and cannot be used without first going through a complicated enrichment process.”
From the IAEA:
http://www.iaea.org/OurWork/SV/Invo/factsheet.html
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIraq/IraqUNSC14072003.pdf
These documents explain that Yellow Cake and other non-weapons grade nuclear material had been inventoried as of 1998, sealed and last inspected in 2002.
So in other words, the non weapons grade material that we knew was there before the invasion was transported out in 2008. What’s your point.
And Yat Yas comes in with the typical neocon straw man argument.
No one wants Suddam in power. However, the Iraq debacle led to the under resourcing of Afghanistan which likely cost us Bin Laden. (In case you forgot, he’s the guy that actually did attack us.)
The axis of evil BS contributed directly to Achmed’s Dinner Jacket’s rise to power in Iran. (Iran viewed itself as a tepid ally since they allowed our war planes to use their airspace to attack the Taliban.)
Not to mention the toppling of Iraq left Iran as the regional hegimon where there really was not one before. So essentially, The Shrub ™ won the Iran Iraq war for Iran. Nice job.
HM2(FMF/SW)Ret.:
I’m a typical neocon, Doc? Is there a shot for that? As far as Osama, we could kill him tomorrow and that would not end the war. We are fighting an extremist idea that goes beyond Osama. If Iraq continues to improve it will be a better buffer to the current Iranian government than Saddam would have been. By the way, Saddam’s lackey’s tried to kill me, before Osama’s lackeys tried the same thing. We were in a low intensity conflict with Saddam since right after the cease fire of Desert Storm. History did not start the day after 9/11.
HM2(FMF/SW)Ret said: fear mongoring (sic) is saying over and over that we have to attack a third world country that didn’t attack us, we will have mushroom clouds over American cities.
I dunno what any of that has to do with health care, so what is your point?
The OFA email is clearly fear mongering so why the unnecessary tangent?
Talk about a ‘straw man’ argument.
Oh wait… I get it. The Jews and the Bilderbergers, et al, forced Bush to invade Iraq so that Obama could get elected to reform the health care system.
I think his point was that nobody here ever complained about fear mongering prior to this administration.
You all sound like the typical politican, no matter which side of the debate, you have no consistency at all. Admit it, all politicans and almost every President has used fear mongering to push their agenda.
Does anyone have a memory here?
HM2; you are way off base with pretty much your whole argument. Iran has not been an ally since the Shah, or have you forgotten about the 444 days some of our people spent as forced guests of the scumbags? I love your “neocon” strawman that you throw out there; no need to wonder what side of the fence you sit on.
All that aside, and to get back on topic, what would you call it, when leftiststurn everything into a “crisis” so they can try and pass all the bs they want to shove at us? No transparency (as promised by bobo) and no viewing the bill for 5 days before it is voted on (don’t want the American people to actually see how we want to screw them next) and then on to the nxt “crisis”. Everything these morons do is because of a made up “crisis”. Now, in a move to try and get this debacle done while the country is getting ready to open presents; Harry Reid has scheduled a vote for Christmas eve, so he and the other commies won’t have to listen to constituents during the holiday break, not that they are listening now since pretty much every poll out there shows that a majority of people polled don’t want this disaster to begin with.
BTW I’m not a “neocon” since I was conservative before Ronald Reagan was elected. That name came about after Ronaldus Maximus was already in his second term; however, “commie” has been around a whole lot longer and describes a lot of leftists these days.
Great post, Old Trooper. I’ve seen some conservatives use fearmongering, but compared to most of today’s democrats that’s like comparing a Shetland pony to a Clydesdale horse.
So, HM2, you’re saying that “yellowcake” uranium couldn’t and wouldn’t be used in a “dirty bomb”? Just askin’ because if it could be, it would be a part of a WMD. And, using the IAEA as a “credible source”? LOL!!!
Meanwhile, on the topic of this post, I don’t really care to pay my taxes to supply free health care to assorted pimps, dopers, drug dealers, hookers, burglars, hold-up men and women and assorted folks who don’t pay taxes. Even though the assorted drug dealers and hookers and democrat politicians and federal employees could really afford to pay up.
I answered the question that was asked. The OFA Email states things that are likely true and are not overly dramatic. On the other hand, The Shrub (c) repeatedly warned of something that he knew was unlikely in order to sell us a war. Moreover, Ponsdorf, I am far from a conspiracy theorist and reject the garbage at the end of your post.
Old Trooper:
I have not forgotten Tehran, not do I think history started on 9/12. (though as often as your side throws around the phrase 9/10 thinking, it seems ironic that you say that. But I digress.) I did not say we considered them an ally. They had softened to us and at the very least saw us as tool to go after their enemy the Taliban. There was an opportunity there. But, we wasted it on a sales job for a war we didn’t need. THAT was fear mongoring.
Healthcare is in crisis weather we say so or not. So, we might as well say so. I work with people every day who cannot aford to go to the DR. There are children who cannot get immunizations and elders who cannot get preventative care. There are also many areas where there is only one insurance company. The problem with today’s republican party is that there are merely an opposition party with no real principle. They simply scream no and whine about the majority.
Is this email fear mongoering? Hardly. Was the last administration guilty of fear mongering on a large scale? Absolutely.
HM2(FMF/SW)Ret. observed: Moreover, Ponsdorf, I am far from a conspiracy theorist and reject the garbage at the end of your post.
That is a step in the right (correct) direction.
This administration has been practicing ‘skeerism’, right out the Alinksy playbook, since taking over, and you’re selling it like it was true.
And lastly… you really should try to be more progressive in your thinking. You might wanna see if this administration will pay you stipend for parroting their positions. I would point out that many of them have moved on though.
HM-
You’re playing a violin here, with your meme of “children not getting immunized”. Those elderly and the children can get care if they or their parents advocate harder and swallow the pride. My in-laws came to visit and went to the health dept. to get flu immunizations cheaper and they have health care. I can get free shots if I choose because they are available. The individual is responsible for exhausting the avenues of care if needed. IT can be done and they choose not to.
Most people who legitimately can apply for medicaid do not. And why should they when there are people like you making victims left and right?
I don’t recall George Bush talking out both sides of his mouth like Obama is. On one hand, he tells us not to worry about medicare, and then comes out and says unless we pass the bill, it is unsustainable. It’s going bankrupt no matter what. And, since that bastard Nelson was a lying mother fucker(holding out for abortion, ha) we’re gonna get it and then some. Just remember you heard it here first: just because you tell people they’re gonna get something doesn’t mean it will happen and the access and quality will drop faster than you can imagine. Why? Because no person in their right mind is going to spend ten years in school (or more) to be a salaried physician and working more than 60 hours a week with no potential for upward mobility. Put that in your victim pipe and smoke it. Maybe it will clear your head.
Defend:
I had no idea you were this ignorant. First of all, I spent nearly half of my adult life in emergency medicine both in and out of the military and no work daily with the unemployed. I have seen people die in the ER because PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE WAS NOT AVAILABLE. Long term treatment for diabetes, HIV and the like. My cients today are worried that they will lose/have lost their helath insurance and many cannot get new insurance due to pre existing conditions.
Your second argument is preposterous on its face. So your in-laws can’t get public assistance where they live and they come to you to get it. And that means there isn’t a problem? You seem to be making the same mistake that many politicians make. You are assume that all people have the same opportunities as you have.
George Bush talked out of both sides of his mouth about national defense and business pretty much from the beginning of his administration. We were told evil men wanted to kill us at the same time we were supposed to travel and see our family. Aghanistan/Iraq was supposed to be the most important issue of our time b ut there was never a real push for recruiting, war bonds or any other commitment from the populus.
Finally, many of us here are beneficaries of the most sucessful socialist (yeah I said it) medicine program in history. Docotrs at the Veterans Administration do exactly what you suggest. They spend ten plus years in scool and then go to work for 40-100K a year. But, the plan being discussed does not eliminate the current system. In others words its a non sequitor.
Doc, there is no doubt that there needs to be health care reform, but the Dems aren’t going to take care of the middle class in this country. They are going to spend more on those that vote for them and those that are here illegally. I work Law Enforcement and have never seen anyone not transported on a medical assistance call even if they had no insurance.
Take a couple of Motrin for your BDS. I agree that the Bush administration made mistakes in not enlarging the military more and not reacting quickly enough to the insurgency in Iraq. However, a strong military is dependent on a country with a strong economy and it was important for people to continue to get out of their homes to work and spend money. People were calling the police continually after 9/11 over stupid shit because they were letting their fears get the best of them.
Sorry, the military is not a great example of socialism. Actually the miltary is more like a non-profit organization or are you HUA. We had great corpsman and doctors with the Corps, but then again I hardly ever saw a doctor at the BAS a Motrin was the remedy for almost every ailment.
YatYas:
I’m not sure what’s with people reading into my comments and then attacking the misreading. It’s illeagal to refuse transport based on ability to pay, just like it is illegal to refuse medical treatment because of inability to pay. Preventative treatment are things like lab tests, annual screenings, medication etc. A lot of people without access to other healthcare use the ER in place of a regular doctor and thus can onloy get immediate care.
The administration was feeding those fears. Frightened people will follow any direction you lead them. The fact is the Bush Administration did not ask the American populus to do anything specific. As I said, he told us to go shopping at the same time he told us that terrorism was the battle of our lifetimes. I answered the question as I see it. It’s an example of him speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
The military operates like a business(non-profit or otherwise I leave to you.) The VA on the other hand is a socialist experiment providing government run healthcare to millions of beneficiaries. Most folks here talk about how much they love the VA medical centers yet are afraid of government healthcare.
Doc, I don’t know much about the VA, since never have used it. Both my brothers do and they think it’s pretty good. My ex-wife uses Champus Primecare, but she has to makes some payments. My daughter was born in a military hospital and the service was good, although there was only one doctor and several nurses on duty at the time. So the husbands that were present had to do a number of things that should have been done by a nurse. The military did make me pay for the food my wife ate while hospitalized. So military health care is not totally a socialist style system. Once again, I will agree that we do need some health care reform just not in a socialist/communist style.
YatYas,
I use both government ran healthcare systems. The VA care I receive is fully funded by the taxpayers and I receive fantastic care by it. I pay zero while the taxpayers pay 100% of it. I dare anyone to go stand infront of any VA clinic and ask a veteran as they leave if they would like to give up this government ran healthcare service.
I also receive TriCare Prime from TriWest where I pay $35.70 a month for healthcare that covers me, my wife, and my three children. How does $35.70 cover my medical care you ask? It doesn’t! The taxpayers cover the overwhelming vast majority of it. And how is that administered? By the federal government.
While I was in the Army, two of my three children were born at Army medical centers. I paid literally $20. Yes I said $20. How is that feesable that I can have a baby for only $20? Well the taxpayers covered my expenses through this unbelievable healthcare program ran by the federal government.
I wonder what were the “number of things” you had to do while your daughter was born that a nurse should have been doing? I actually enjoyed taking care of my wife and children and being apart of the labor. It’s something I’ll never forget.
amazing stuff here:
Veterans get health care at no expense or some expense for the reason they are veterans. They paid for those benefits by their service to the country, so it’s not actually free.
I did the things nurses told me to do because they said they were short handed. The worst was watching a monitor while holding my wife’s thighs and telling her when to push and when to stop and too watch for crowning. This was because she was not properly dilating and the nurses told me they were short handed and needed the husband’s too do this.
As a tax payer and American, I do not want to pay for a socialist/communist style of health care.
YatYas,
When we actually talk about who pays for it with actual dollars and cents you have to admit that it’s not the service of troops that pays for veterans healthcare, it’s the taxpayers that actually pay for it. Please tell me how the physicans, nurses, other employees and pharmicuticals at the clinic get paid? I think it comes from the federal government which is funded through tax payers. So inturn the VA healthcare is a “socialist/communist style healthcare” system. Are you going to stop paying for it?
Did you really say that the worst part of your wife’s pregnancy was “holding my wife’s thighs and telling her when to push and when to stop and too watch for crowning”? Are you freakin serious? Have you told your wife and child that yet? I love’d being apart of my children being born. How sad.
amazing stuff here:
Why yes, I have told my ex-wife and daughter just how nasty it was and how I didn’t feel qualified to do that. They both laughed and thought it sounded pretty gross. So get off your high horse. Pretty sure, I love my daughter as much as you love your kids.
Military health care is not a socialist/communist run system comrade as much as you would like it to be. The government considers it part of your financial benefits which is why they can pay the military less. In the 90’s they used to send out paperwork to show the monetary value of your service based on the extra benefits you received. Plus, military members pay taxes and depending on how much you make for the year, you might not get it all refunded.
YatYas,
Not on a high horse here and I know you love your children as much as I do. But your wrong, every military hospital has a thing called “Family Centered Care” in the labor and delivery departments. They want you involved. It has nothing to do with being understaffed. They encourage you to be apart of the labor of your child.
Lastly, please go look at the Defense Authorization Bill. Notice how money is allocated to healthcare facilities and healthcare employment? That money does not come from active duty troops, it comes from taxes. Now if you think the government gets these taxes only from our troops, you have really lost your mind. So like I said, tax payers pay for our troops healthcare and tax payers pay for veterans healthcare.
Please explain how the VA gets it’s money to pay for our veteran’s healthcare?