Building a world class Navy

| April 15, 2024

I know we are all encouraged at THAT phrase – after all, the US Navy has dominated the seven seas for what, almost eighty years? Yeah, right…they did. Still want to claim the title?

Not to puke on swabbies, officers, whatever…they are some of the best and not only do they do a great job with what they have to work with, they have easily had the best full length ads ever filmed. Battleship, That Shall Which Not Be Named I and II… killer ads there, fellas. It’s the ship builders that are letting you down, and they ain’t your fault.

Let’s talk about the Landing Ship Medium. I know, you thought I was going to pick on the Littoral Combat ships (again) but that isn’t the low-hanging fruit today.

The Congressional Budget Office expects the Landing Ship Medium program to cost billions of dollars more than the U.S. Navy previously estimated, though the organization noted that ongoing questions about the ship’s role create uncertainty on the final design and cost.

The office estimated an 18-ship LSM program would cost between $6.2 billion and $7.8 billion in 2024 inflation-adjusted dollars, or $340 million to $430 million per ship. This is three times more than the Navy’s comparable estimate of $2.6 billion total, or $150 million per ship.

For example, the Marine Corps originally proposed LSM in its Force Design 2030 modernization plan in spring 2020, calling for a vessel that would be built to commercial standards to keep costs low and to help it blend in with commercial shipping.

The Navy and the Office of the Secretary of Defense, however, have pushed for higher standards for safety and survivability, leading to a back-and-forth over design, cost and quantity. DefenseNews

Basically the Marines want a commercial quality ship, the Navy seems to think anything that would go into a conflict has to be built to a higher standard.  I’m not sure they can build a cruise-missile proof ship –  maybe the Marines have a point? Not sure armor would be the answers – more watertight compartments? Someone of the aquatic persuasion please enlighten us.

So essentially we have a stalled program with no clear objective. Gotta say, nowadays that’s… wait for it…ALL of them. We need something different.

Moving on – Navy Secretary Carlos del Toro visited Korea recently and was gobsmacked at their shipyards.

“When my team and I went to South Korea, we were floored at the level of digitization and real-time monitoring of shipbuilding progress, with readily available information down to individual pieces of stock materials,” Del Toro said.

“Their top executives could tell us to the day when ships would be delivered,” he said. That’s a stark difference from the US, which is facing problems with its shipbuilding capacity, labor availability, and resources.

Nowadays ISO9000 standards are so ubiquitous almost everyone adheres to them – they may only tell you that you are building crap but at least you have firm data on how bad the crap is and where your problems lie. Ginormous defense contractors can’t do that?

That month (February ’24 – ed.), Maj. Jeffrey L. Seavy, a retired US Marine Corps officer, wrote for the US Naval Institute that China had roughly 47% of the global market on shipbuilding, the most of any country, with South Korea coming in second at about 29% and Japan in third at about 17%. He said the US had “a relative insignificant capacity at 0.13%,” referencing numbers from the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development.

.13%. Think about that. Between a sixth and a seventh of 1/100th world’s production. Seriously?

The Navy secretary’s comments came on the heels of an internal review that discovered that most of the Navy’s top programs, including high-priority submarines, a first-in-class guided-missile frigate, and the third Ford-class aircraft carrier, were severely delayed by years, fueling worries from US officials about the ability to maintain the country’s pace against great power rivals.  Business Insider

Sounds like navally speaking we are running a Military Industrial Thrift Shop. And we’re not very good at it.

I klnow you recognize the ship above, the USS Boxer which has been in refit seemingly longer than most of y’all been alive, and has the sea route back to port NAMED after it.

“USS Boxer is returning to San Diego to undergo additional maintenance in support of its deployment in the Indo-Pacific region,” Lt. Cmdr. Jesus Uranga, a spokesperson for the Navy’s 3rd Fleet in the Pacific, told Military.com in an email.  Defense News

Ten whole days…sigh.

Category: "Your Tax Dollars At Work", Big Navy

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Anna Puma

USS Boxer returned to port due to rudder issues. I think that says everything that needs to be said on the issue because it writes itself.

Meanwhile over in LANFLT, USS Wasp maybe facing deployment delays also though the ship is doing workups right now.

So the CNO, Admiral Franchetti, has tasked her subordinates into doing a ‘deep dive’ on the issues behind this. But right now there is a serious gap in the ability to land a large force of Marines globally.

Anonymous
ChipNASA

My concerns grow daily that brushing up on my language skills may be a survival skill…

“求求你了,先生,我还想要一些。”

26Limabeans

If you hold that up to a mirror it says Fuck Joe Biden.

SFC D

I thought it was a receipt for the purchase of Joe Biden.

HT3

Building tankers & container ships is not the same as warships. Those designs have basically been perfected, and they just build them in different sizes with a newer engine and electronics. The problem with new naval construction in my opinion, is integrating new technology before it actually works.
Example: the magnetic catapults for CVN’s. It was on drawing board before it made part of the blueprints. Somebody figured they’d have the bugs out by the time the ship was built…wrong!
Also, lack of competition. 3 companies basically build all the ships & subs at a couple different yards. I wouldn’t turn naval ship building over to foreign yards, but we could probably learn some new techniques to improve efficiency.

26Limabeans

“magnetic catapults”

Solar panel powered?

Anonymous

The really long extension cord with the EV aircraft will be a hoot.

Odie

As long as they don’t forget to put those “boots” on at each extension cord connection to keep water out, they should be fine.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

Also a tape measure to find out how long a short circuit is if needed. boy, my comment was nice and short.

rgr769

Naw, Tesla will build charging stations in every port. It will only take about six months to recharge its lithium batteries.

Mick

Magnetic catapults on CVNs.

— SIGH —

Good luck with those new-fangled contraptions during sustained flight deck operations.

There was nothing wrong with steam-powered catapults. Robust, reliable technology that has been proven and refined over decades of hard service.

But once again, the Navy just couldn’t resist “fixing” something that wasn’t broken.

SFC D

High-tech ain’t always the best answer. Sometimes, the best calculator is a #2 pencil.

Messkit

It’s not that it was broken….”ish”. It’s that the ship is fuckered when the system does break. There aren’t any replacements on board. That steam under pressure is hell on pipes, fittings, and gaskets. The ram must be at 100% at all times, or someone is going swimming with a $150 million plane.

Sure, the big canoe can operate with 3 or 2 cats, but that really hurts mission essential time and capability.

With the electric slingshot, extra components can easily be stored in supply, to be swapped out within minutes or hours. Not to mention, the lack of the big steam system taking up a shitload of deck space and weight, gives the grey kayak’s more storage for planes, fuel, parts, and Filipino girlfriends…

KoB

Y’all may recall a comment I made awhile back on how many carriers (that worked) we built between 1941-’45. Seems like it was 100+. To quote from an old song…”Those were the days my friends we thought they’d never end…” Not only will we play hell carrying the fight to an overseas enemy, we may not even be able to defend our own piece of the oceans.

Bull Halsey, Chester Nimitz, and Rosie The Riveter…weep.

Roh-Dog

Move over Anchors Aweigh*, my boys gender-affirmed otherkin, entre (imbedded vid)?
*additional version.

Proposed new Navy Song, as they keep ‘shitting in theirs’ (NSFW: cussing, fecal themes, truth in advertising, etcetc):

Anonymous

Why the new uniforms have brown underwear? Like Deadpool said… apologies, of course, to those who’d not need that:
comment image

Last edited 1 month ago by Anonymous
AW1Ed

I’ll rag on the LCS class- where are they? The shooting conflict in the Red Sea is the very definition of littoral combat, yet there they aren’t.

Which leads one to inquire how many effective ships does the Navy really have?

Anonymous

Minus the Little Crappy Ship and those that’re just broke…

Green Thumb

If the Navy stays away from All-Points Logistics contracts, things might work out.

5JC

And who will lead such a world class Navy?

1000004375
Last edited 1 month ago by 5JC
5JC

What about this guy?

1000004374
HT3

My guess? 
A member of the E4 Mafia put the scope backwards ON PURPOSE!
“Here skipper, squeeze off a few rounds for a photo op” <snicker, snicker guffaw>
Meanwhile, a new E4 Mafia Legend is born.

FuzeVT

“Why does everything look so little through this scope?! Ah, never mind, I’m just shooting at the ocean. No one will ever see this, anyway. “

jeff LPH 3 63-66

I sea what you mean.

26Limabeans

What’s with the hand on his shoulder.

SCPO USN RET

Take your hand off the boss and move that chicken wing. As a member of the E4 Mafia class of 1968, I had my share of pranking JOs, but never, ever with the CO. The fallout would be a CLM of disproportionate size!

26Limabeans

I’ll bet the guy on the right can’t see his own dick.

5JC

You are making a mighty big assumption that it has one.

SFC D

She just might.

Green Thumb

Between Austin and Biden, we have it covered.

Anonymous

She seems nice…

e.conboy

Oh, Lawd!

jeff LPH 3 63-66

We had the old USS Boxer CV21 which was turned into
LPH 4 on station during the Dominican Republic crisis during Op Power Pack in 1965, and with us in 1964 during Op Steel Pike 1. I din;t think that their will be another USS Okinawa named Amphib ship. maybe because of the loss of life and Navy ships during the Okinawa Battle, . Like Hurricane names that are retired because of the damage and loss of life.

26Limabeans

Kinda unlike the USS Wasp which I believe is up to eight now.
Got a tour of her in Boston Harbor when I was kid.
Riding that huge elevator up to the flight deck was awesome.

ANCRN

A world class Navy? Would that be like the Imperial Japanese Navy in December of 1941, or the IJN after Midway in 1942? It took the loss of just 4 ships to eliminate their naval superiority, and they never got it back. In a shooting war China just needs to pile on and sink 2 of our flattops and we’ve lost the advantage.

Anonymous
Last edited 1 month ago by Anonymous
ANCRN

Well, All I know about modern naval warfare I got from reading Tom Clancy, and that’s a bit dated. I have no doubt that the Chinese are working hard at anticarrier tactics that are going to surprise us.

Anonymous

Chicoms are always up to no good:

Army- Air Force Guy

Well, that settles it. Have the ROK shipyards build our vessels, we’ll get them faster and a little cheaper. Call it the Kia theory. 😁

Green Thumb

Satire, but you ain’t wrong.

Blaster

I can tell you, as a defense contractor, the problem is Mission Creep!!!

“Hey,, let’s add this, or that”

AND “This would make it better!”

How many turnovers, over the years of personnel in the time it takes to build a ship??

OH,,, AND UNIONS!!!!!!!

Messkit

I won’t mention Unions, and doing things the “Union way”…

Contracts should be “Here’s the job. Here’s what we expect. Here’s what we’ll pay. Here’s when it will be done. Don’t like it? Fine, we’ll hire Koreans to build, in Groton. Your loss, not ours”.

Pretty much what we did for WWII, and that worked out just fine.